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Summer 2015 - The Defence

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Squiggles

Squiggles

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This summer should see us rightly prioritise the striker situation, but can we do so with little investment in the defence? There is a realistic expectation that Lovren and Moreno should improve next year, although that's far from certain. Johnson looks set to leave, which I feel is a risk, nobody seems sure on the future of Manquillo, who is more comfortable as a back four than wingback. Sakho has improved this year although been restricted by injury, but should walk back into the side. On paper it's a mess.

So the questions are:

Should we be a back 3 or a back 4?
Who do we sign?
Who should go?
Is our current management team capable of sorting this out?
 
Rightly or wrongly I always see a back three as a temporary solution.

The centre backs are what they are and I don't see much point in doing anything there until Skrtel is on his way out.

If we're playing a back four we can't have two attacking full backs. It has never worked. Given the investment in Moreno I think he'll be starting next season and should be better for the experience.

At right back, what looked a position of future strength a couple of years ago with Johnson ahead of Kelly, Flanagan, Wisdom who were waiting in the wings etc will now be down to Wisdom if we decide to give him a go. Otherwise we need an unadventurous, solid full back on that side. That's not Manquillo from what I've seen of him.
An Arbeloa type. I've no idea who that might be
 
Back 4. I'd like 2 fullbacks that can defend if they have to. Not 2 idiots shoehorned into there but are actually wingers. We've got a big bag of CB's so nothing to worry about there, probably sell a few of them (wisdom, Illori, coates, kolo etc)
 
Back 4 in most cases, it feels like we're a man light elsewhere with 3 center backs and we're wasting a player when shit teams come and sit back with 1 up front.

Brendan totally has the right to change it when he feels it best suits the opposition but this season it felt like he stumbled upon it as a set up that stopped us conceding and produced a few results, then was scared to change.
 
Sakho, Skrtel and to a degree at the minute Lovren I'm quite happy with. Despite recent issues, Can has shown he can fill in there, but we clearly have gaping holes at full back. Personally, I'd like to see some big strong defenders there, rather than pissing around with midfielders out of position and alternating with a back three.

Go back to two at centre half, with two full backs who can defend, let Moreno learn the ropes a bit more next season. I don't want to see us lavishly spend on the defense, we've done that enough, but I would like to see us be a bit more clever about it. Look at Chelsea with Ivanovic, he gives them so much stability by tucking and defending in when they need it.
 
I don't know the answers to any of the original questions but I sure as heel hope that someone in the club is working on the defence.

I think we could easily cope with 4 at the back with decent support from the full backs and someone in midfield who can tackle, but whether we can get that or not this summer is anybody's guess.
 
Back 4 - Skrtel & Sakho first Choice..

Bring in Schneiderlin as a DM... for me he would protect the back 4 quite wonderfully like he does for Southampton

Buy a decent RB.. and have Wisdom and Flannagan as backup..

Left back Moreno and Flanagan as back up

Im not sure what the script is with Manquillio,, but if he is not getting played send him back to A Madrid.. though I was impressed with him at the beginning of the season..

Ideally I would want to have a new decent CB.. but we will probably have to look at bringing in a free transfer for that or use CAN more as a CB rather than a midfielder...
 
There are too many other priorities for us to spend much money on the defence. Start by scrapping 5 at the back and let's have a solid back 4 as a strong foundation for the side.

I would persevere with Can as right back. He has all the qualities, he is big and strong, a good defender and has pace and energy. He has all the attributes to be our version of Ivanovic except experience and it should be Brendan's job to coach him into the position. Bring Wisdom back to alternate with Can and that's right back sorted until Flanagan returns.

We are strong at centreback so no changes there except Kolo can leave and we either give Ilori his shirt as the 4th choice or one of the U21's.

There have been loads of rumours about Luke Garbutt moving across Stanley Park when his contract expires in the summer and hopefully that's true and he can compete with Moreno for left back. We will have to pay compensation but it won't be much.

That just leaves us with a No 2 goalie at low cost, because Mignolet has overcome most of his faults and is good enough.

Throw all our money at centre midfield and strikers, that should be the plan.
 
Isn't it almost a given, especially considering the last half a dozen games, that BR will revert to his favoured 4-3-3 most of the time ?

CBs : That being the case then we have Skrtel & Sakho as the starting central defence - and I'm happy with that. Lovren looks much better now he's got his confidence back, long may it continue, and sadly Kolo will more than likely leave, meaning there is one CB available.

FBs : Moreno is fine when we are playing a more defensive team and hopefully he learnt a lot this year. However I'm praying that Flanno does not succumb to his injuries and can recover his previous form as he can start at RB and cover at LB when we need a more defensive line-up. Manquillo suits a back 4 and is a decent backup at RB. Who is this Montoya we seem to be chasing ? He must be a more defensive FB because he only has 2 goals in 6 years for Barca and Spain !

DM : Lucas did a fine job after we abdicated from the EL. We looked a strong team .. just shorn of a striker. I have nothing against him continuing there although if we can find better then I've not problem with that either ! Next to Hendo is the problem as I see it for Midfield.
 
beejay said:
I would persevere with Can as right back. He has all the qualities, he is big and strong, a good defender and has pace and energy. He has all the attributes to be our version of Ivanovic except experience and it should be Brendan's job to coach him into the position. .
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Please God no. No, he really doesn't.
 
I've never seen any evidence that BR can organise a traditional back four, and I agree that a back 3 is essentially a sticking plaster.

So I'd rather we didn't waste money on defenders until we have a different coach.
 
Manquilo strangely looks like a good defender, in the mould of a Finnan or Arbeloa. I was more impressed with him defensively than Moreno, he holds his position and reads the game well.
 
mark1975 said:
Manquilo strangely looks like a good defender, in the mould of a Finnan or Arbeloa. I was more impressed with him defensively than Moreno, he holds his position and reads the game well.
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That is why I am suprised he has not been played more.. Out of all the signing he was the one that impressed me in the first half of the season..

He had heart.. and looked an excellant prospect..
 
Manquillo had some good performances but he also had some shockers including getting taken off after 20 minutes against West Ham as Enner Valencia was all over him.
 
RedNinja said:
That is why I am suprised he has not been played more.. Out of all the signing he was the one that impressed me in the first half of the season..

He had heart.. and looked an excellant prospect..
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He patently doesn't suit a Back 3. He was in favour when we started the season with a Back 4 (and he was generally playing well) and then slipped out of favour (rightfully I think) when we moved to a Back 3. Next season should see him used more as we revert, I expect, to a Back 4.
 
If we keep Lucas as holding midfielder then we need to get another defensive midfielder in as cover. Unfortunately Lucas has been picking up injuries quite a lot these past few seasons and it's crucial we have an adequate replacement. This should have been done 2 years ago. Can may be able to fill this role eventually but i'm not convinced he's able to do it effectively just yet.
 
davud graham said:
If we keep Lucas as holding midfielder then we need to get another defensive midfielder in as cover. Unfortunately Lucas has been picking up injuries quite a lot these past few seasons and it's crucial we have an adequate replacement. This should have been done 2 years ago. Can may be able to fill this role eventually but i'm not convinced he's able to do it effectively just yet.
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There's some doubt as to whether Lucas will stay. I think the plan is to buy a holding midfielder and have him/Emre Can as the options for next year.
 
Best Believe It said:
There's some doubt as to whether Lucas will stay. I think the plan is to buy a holding midfielder and have him/Emre Can as the options for next year.
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It looked like Inter Milan were interested in Lucas in the January transfer window but I'd rather keep him myself. Even if he's the back up to any new holding midfielder we might buy. I'm not sure Can has the awareness to play that role yet and it would be a gamble to just throw him in and hope for the best.
The squad would be stronger if we have at least 2 capable players for each position and defensive midfielder is one were short in at the moment.
 
I think that CM and a top class goalscorer should be our priority but we can strengthen the defence a bit for nowt if we sign Ron Vlaar (Villa) and Boruc (Southampton) who are both out of contract.

Vlaar would replace Kolo Toure and has every chance of becoming a first team regular. Brad Jones contract is up and I've never rated him......Boruc would be a very decent back up keeper and an adequate replacement for Ming if Ming gets another case of the wobbles.

Boruc, Vlaar and Milner on freebies would be very nice.
 
Markeh said:
Boruc is a nutcase
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Yes and capable of the odd fuck-up but I'd much prefer him as our No.2 than Jones. We've signed so many young keepers in recent seasons that I can't remember half their names. About 4 or 5 seasons ago when Palace were in the Championship I suggested we signed Speroni as back up as he was out of contract and available on freebie and nobody came in for him!

Now, at the age of 35, I reckon Boruc would accept a place on the bench (to begin with) and I reckon he would do a decent job. Ideally we spend £15m on the next Courtois, De Gea etc but given our limited budget and our need for 2 very good CM'ers and a top forward we're gonna have to shop in the bargain basement for a back up keeper.
 
Pesam said:
Yes and capable of the odd fuck-up but I'd much prefer him as our No.2 than Jones. We've signed so many young keepers in recent seasons that I can't remember half their names. About 4 or 5 seasons ago when Palace were in the Championship I suggested we signed Speroni as back up as he was out of contract and available on freebie and nobody came in for him!

Now, at the age of 35, I reckon Boruc would accept a place on the bench (to begin with) and I reckon he would do a decent job. Ideally we spend £15m on the next Courtois, De Gea etc but given our limited budget and our need for 2 very good CM'ers and a top forward we're gonna have to shop in the bargain basement for a back up keeper.
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Yea those are fair points and signing him makes sense.

I just remember him going into full meltdown against Northern Ireland because the fans were giving him shit, a strong character he is not. He couldn't even compose himself to kick the ball properly.
 
Markeh said:
Yea those are fair points and signing him makes sense.

I just remember him going into full meltdown against Northern Ireland because the fans were giving him shit, a strong character he is not. He couldn't even compose himself to kick the ball properly.
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Yeah I remember that. He's not ideal but he's proved decent at EPL level. Matt Ryan might be a better option if, as Hansern speculated, we could get him for £3m. I'm just glad that we're getting rid of Brad Jones, I've never rated him.
 
Pesam said:
Yeah I remember that. He's not ideal but he's proved decent at EPL level. Matt Ryan might be a better option if, as Hansern speculated, we could get him for £3m. I'm just glad that we're getting rid of Brad Jones, I've never rated him.
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He would probably be a great signing if his first team opportunities never aligned with one of those mental days

I'm all for the spending as little as possible on squad players idea, no more big signings for the future get Boruc the bandaid or whoever else to patch up the squad on the cheap. Clear the way for signing players that will make a difference.
 
I just realized that there are a shitload of familiar names amongst the keepers with expiring contracts in the Championship (according to transfermarkt):

Adam Bogdan, Bolton
Adam Federici, Reading
Tomasz Kupzcak, Wolves
Heurelho Gomes, Watford
Ben Amos, Bolton
Ali Al-Habsi, Wigan
Chris Kirkland, Sheff Wednesday
Paul Robinson, Blackburn
Gabor Kiraly, Fulham
Stuart Taylor, Leeds

Not sure if some of these are just loans running out (think not), but keepers gettin' no love in the Championship.
 
studsup said:
I just realized that there are a shitload of familiar names amongst the keepers with expiring contracts in the Championship (according to transfermarkt):
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Adam Federici actually got voted the club's player of the season and named the players’ player of the year at Reading.

Adam Bogdan has been offered a new contract but there's apparently cash flow problems at Bolton causing talks to hit a snag.

Ali Al-Habsi announced his departure at the start of the month.
 
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