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Spurs post-match madness and RAAAAAAAATIIINGS!

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manwithnoname

Bravo old man. Bravo.
Banned
Let's have a refreshed, clear-eyed debate, with none of the unfortunate emotional responses that happen on match-day.

Blimey. What a contentious game. I don't feel as if my own opinion about the penalties are worth revisiting, suffice it to say that Spurs thought they were penalties and Liverpool didn't. Not even the refereeing fraternity could agree. Says it all really.

But it was an entertaining, frustrating and ultimately disappointing game. After the horrendous shellacking in the away fixture, I was very keen on gaining some sort of revenge, and in the first half that seemed likely, even if we were only one goal in front thanks to the amazing Salah. We were in control and keeping Eriksen, Kane and Delle Alli quiet, with Henderson bossing things in midfield.

Sadly, as is almost inevitable, we couldn't maintain it. Possession in the second half swung almost entirely to Spurs, who began to find gaps and dictate the game. We became sloppy, slapdash and desperately lethargic too, as we ceded control almost entirely.

Klopp again showed his cluelessness in making tactical changes and using his subs properly, switching to a back three and then conceding twice. Perhaps more damaging was the catastrophic decision to bring on Oxlade-Chamberpot. Salah once more rescued our arses from the fire, bit he was - once more - let down by the players around him, and the dreadful defence Klopp has "built".

A draw was probably the right result, but that won't change the frustration and anger at some of the decisions that went against us

Karius (7) Made a top save in the second half, and kept out Kane's (admittedly dreadful) first penalty. Typically flappy and weak in the air, he should have done better with the cross he tamely punched out that alllowed the fantastic finish from Wanyama, scoring his customary one goal a season.

TAA (7) Has had some woeful games recently, but was much more impressive against Spurs. Some rollicking tackles and a great scrap with the Spurs left-back. Also put in some decent deliveries.

Robertson (6) Decent and solid enough, but not anything special. Blocked plenty of crosses, but his own were poor

VVD (7) I don't understand how any defence or defensive partnership is supposed to gel and improve, when Klopp chops and changes so regularly. It can't help them. Had a majestic first half, and looked in total control. Some great tackles and headers and looked every inch a quality CB. Will be disappointed with his clumsy efforts in the challenge with Lamela.

Lovren (6) In a decent run of form, and looked powerful in the air and on the floor. Impressive until he made a crucial error when he totally missed the through-ball for the Kane penalty

Henderson (6) Busy and good physical presence in the first half, ensuring we kept Spurs at bay. Sadly, he tired badly and that's when Spurs started to take control.

Can (6) Plenty of work, but had his hands full trying to keep the impressive Dembele quiet. Another who seemed to run out of energy and was blowing hard by the end

Milner (6) Typically diligent and got through lots of the hard yards. Showed his usual tactical awareness by often moving wide to help out then full-back. One or two probing passes, but not really enough creativity or genuine goal threat.

Mane (5) He kept showing, making runs and trying his best, but just about nothing came off for him, with heavy touches and wrong decisions. Seems disinclined to really open up and use that pace aswell. Odd.

Salah (8) Two goals, one of which was a sensational display of skill, close control and determination (Suarez-esque). Some poor passing probably cost us another goal, but his searing pace and ability to take chances (and make his own) are simply amazing. 21 league goals. We'd be fucked without him.

Firmino (4) Lots of defensive work, but really we needed a striker. Zero goal threat again and looked knackered. Luckily we have lots of other......oh. Fuck.

Don't usually bother rating subs, but I thought I'd make an exception for these twats:

Shithouse Ghost (n/a) Showed no desire to get involved or help in any way, and instead floated around like an indifferent, effete spectre who can't even be arsed saying "Boo!". Fuck off.

OXTHLAAAAADE-CHAMBERPOT!!! (2) Did get involved. Which was worse. He's been rightly dumped out of the team after several brainless, mediocre displays, and shouldn't be getting back in anytime soon. Every time he got the ball he just gave it away, or ran straight into midfield traffic. Slow reacting to the Wanyama shot too. Fucking shit.
 
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Karius 6
TAA 7.5
Robertson 6.5
VVD 7
Lovren 6
Henderson 7
Can 6.5
Milne 6.5
Mane 5
Salah 8.75 (extra .25 because you can't score those two goals and be rated lower than 8.5)
Firmino 5

One of my biggest concerns about Klopp has always been his unwillingness to influence a game with tactical changes. The switch to three at the back didn't come off but at least he tried it. Similarly, the two subs were very poor but I thought it was a bold move to make the double change when he did.
 
Despite all the controversy we were pretty bad and probably on the balance of play didn't deserve anything from the match. However it should have been one of those days where the opposition fans were extremely disappointed to be coming away with a defeat but the officials didn't fancy that outcome.

Thoughts:
  • It felt like the players ran a secret marathon on Saturday, they were knackered
  • The subs condemned us to the current pattern of play with Spurs dominant in midfield, we were just hoping to have enough defenders on the pitch to see it out
  • Chamberlain didn't get into the game at all
  • Karius shouldn't have pushed the ball out to Wanyama, that was shit goalkeeping
 
I don't agree with this consensus that we didn't deserve anything, we were the better team in the first half and Spurs couldn't get at us at all.

As said, Henderson leaving the pitch coincided with their total dominance of the midfield, which sort of again puts paid to this notion that Can is a better DM. Neither of them are suited to the role, but Can is equally guilty of being bypassed and dominated. Gini was no help when he came on, and Milner had the more free role. When he was forced to defend more in the second half, it cut off the supply to the attack and a huge gap opened, isolating Salah when we were on the attack. It's a recurring theme since the departure of Coutinho, and because of our ridiculous lack of foresight, it's not likely to get any better. We can't keep relying on individual brilliance from Salah, as it's looking more and more like our only obvious, unquestionable threat.
 
Despite all the controversy we were pretty bad and probably on the balance of play didn't deserve anything from the match. However it should have been one of those days where the opposition fans were extremely disappointed to be coming away with a defeat but the officials didn't fancy that outcome.

Thoughts:
  • It felt like the players ran a secret marathon on Saturday, they were knackered
  • The subs condemned us to the current pattern of play with Spurs dominant in midfield, we were just hoping to have enough defenders on the pitch to see it out
  • Chamberlain didn't get into the game at all
  • Karius shouldn't have pushed the ball out to Wanyama, that was shit goalkeeping
I think all the reviews showed that most modern day goalkeepers are told to punch it out. In any case most agree the first shot that led to the goal was something that 99 times out of 100 never goes in. Karius had a very good game and if De Gea was shit and ridiculed when he first joined at united then i am definitely gonna give Karius time to be number 1. His body language has changed to rightly show he dont give a shit about the noise around him.
 
Karius was good, and it took a wonderstrike and a penalty to beat him. But form is temporary and class something else.

Also think Lovren and Van Dijk commanded their area well.
 
Karius was good, and it took a wonderstrike and a penalty to beat him. But form is temporary and class something else.

Also think Lovren and Van Dijk commanded their area well.
Form is temporary...well we signed on all accounts angood german goalkeeper who from all the reports was class. So i take it that the blipp at LFC was the bad form.
 
Form is temporary...well we signed on all accounts angood german goalkeeper who from all the reports was class. So i take it that the blipp at LFC was the bad form.

Sure be welcome if that is the situation. Hope he builds on this.
 
Let's have a refreshed, clear-eyed debate, with none of the unfortunate emotional responses that happen on match-day.

What then follows is a diatribe against all of Brendan's favourite punchbags/topics. Hahaha ! No wonder it has ZERO Likes.

Karius 7.5 : no-one would be complaining much if he played like this week in week out. Unlucky with Wanyama's goal, a solid 25m punch out came back as a worldie. Also credit should go to him for the penalty save, as I think it was Jenas said elsewhere, Kane put it at the perfect height down the middle if the keeper goes either way. As Karius said he had studied Kane and found he often goes down the middle against Top teams so he stood tall and didn't dive.
TAA 7
Robertson 6 : Defensively he did really well unfortunately he let himself down a little with a handful of awful crosses, when he's capable of real crackers.
VVD 8 : I still don't think it was a penalty but that aside he dominated and came close to another headed goal, just needed a bit more pace on it.
Lovren 7.5 : he had a great game, a little unlucky with the rebound but they luckily didn't score from the ensuing penalty (therefore Brendan it was not a crucial error).
Henderson 7.5 : dominant first half but after 6 weeks out it's no surprise he tired.
Can 6
Milner 6
Mane 6 : he was causing them problems, I really thought he may have grabbed a goal yesterday, came close and was putting in the effort. I wouldn't have taken him off.
Salah 8.5 : frightened the shit out of them every time the ball came near him. Could definitely have done better though on a couple of occasions when we failed to manufacture even a shot on target.
Firmino 4 : he really looked off the pace: mental acuity, technical prowess and he even seemed a yard or two slower al round.

Ox : 2 awful
Gini : 3 awful
Officials : 1 cunts
 
Lets just hope Karius grows off the back of this and becomes some what reliable between now and May.

Our central midfielders coupled with Klopps system will continually cozt us points between now and the end of the system from 60-90 minutes they were bypassed with a single ball each time Spurs came forward. Woeful second half
 
Changing to 5 at the back with 10 mins to go was fucking daft. Everyone around me sighed, suspected it would fuck everything up as people got dragged out of shape. Everyone knew they'd score. It should really have cost us all 3 points, if they'd have scored that first pen.
 
The concern for me is that we played that 2nd half like it was the 2nd half of over time rather than normal time. The players looked dead on their feet.
 
Changing to 5 at the back with 10 mins to go was fucking daft. Everyone around me sighed, suspected it would fuck everything up as people got dragged out of shape. Everyone knew they'd score. It should really have cost us all 3 points, if they'd have scored that first pen.

He's done it a few times now, it's a daft tactic I've always hated managers doing. It invites pressure and disrupts the shape, everyone's getting used to who's picking up who again, who's covering what space, etc and it leads to mistakes and/or confusion.

I'm sure someone will argue the toss that these things are practiced in training too, but it seems counterproductive. If he was that desperate for a bit more protection by putting on Matip, play him infront of the defense, in the anchor role, give the defense more protection without disrupting it's shape and provide a shield instead. He's played there before, is comfortable on the ball, just don't start pissing about with what's worked relatively well throughout the game.

The subs in the game just sucked completely. Not one of them helped, we became disjointed and there was no cohesion. Which sort of returns us back to how short on depth we are.
 
I think the real concern for the rest of the season is Firmino. We are so dependent on him now I cant see how hes going to get a rest and he already looks like he needs it
 
The concern for me is that we played that 2nd half like it was the 2nd half of over time rather than normal time. The players looked dead on their feet.
Actually it was specific players that looked knackered, not all (Can, Hendo - after 6 weeks out no surprise), Milner (age - no longer hack a full blooded 90 mins?) and most surprisingly Firmino looked out of sorts and 2 yards off the pace all game.

I don't see a malaise there and since we are rated in the PL as the team with the 5th most kms covered (last time I checked, Spurs was #1) and with by far and away the most rotation (United have 4 players and Chelsea 5 players that have covered more ground than Salah - our top player in kms covered) then to put it down to any sort of tiredness in the team per se would probably be wrong.

It was our midfield that faded and there was a reason for all of them (Can having covered more ground than any of our players in 2018 as of last week).
 
I think the real concern for the rest of the season is Firmino. We are so dependent on him now I cant see how hes going to get a rest and he already looks like he needs it

Maybe.... just maybe...

The fact we only have 2 more games to play in February... and this being the 7th and all... might.... might mean the players get a rest.
 
Maybe.... just maybe...

The fact we only have 2 more games to play in February... and this being the 7th and all... might.... might mean the players get a rest.

It's actually 3 incl porto away, but good to get more time between games. March is busy though.
 
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