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Sooo..............Captain Steven Gerrard

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Wizardry

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There are still a couple of games at which the team must make an appearance but in reality the season is over. Of all the players the one that has been most intriguing, perplexing and, yes, at times disappointing has been our captain and best player.

About two games into the season I remember a WUM making the comment - "I'd sell Gerrard - his legs are gone." The response was swift and predictably savage. Nearly 8 months later I wonder what response that same poster would receive were he to repeat the comment?

Plenty of us have been howling for Gerrard to be put in midfield for a period as our stocks in that area were clearly bordering on non-existant. It didn't happen and, on the rare occasions when Gerrard did move to the middle in a game he looked either uninterested or uncommitted. Some said tired - others tried to excuse him due to injury but as he racked up games the excuse became more tenuous.

Tonight, contrary to any other suggestion, he was largely playing midfield and, for about 80 minutes he was in the thick of it. He set the tone with a surging run in the opening minutes before overplaying the ball to Babel. He got back in defence while Aquilani kept Kuyt company, moving, passing and even looking to create room for a shot on the edge of the box. Plenty of posters said he was anonymous from the 2nd goal – I thought it was earlier than that. They said he disappeared but I think he was exhausted. He did more running in a game than for quite some time and it was to be expected that he’d tire. Give him 6 or 7 games in that position and I think he’d have the miles in the legs that he’s missing just now. He can play the midfield role IMO and fitness would not be an issue.

Many have commented that the searing, thunder bolts that Gerrard was dispatching with regularity in prior seasons have disappeared. It was a comment that was gaining momentum over the last 2 or 3 months prior to our visit to Burnley. Gerrard's second, on first inspection, was a return of our Captain Marvel. The thing that caught my eye - apart from a superbly crafted and placed strike - was the technique. In fact it wasn't a thunderous strike from yester-year at all - it was a curled, sided footed and superbly placed effort. Those shots of blinding power are still a missing factor in our play.

Contrary to popular opinion the first affliction of age is not the muscle but rather the joint or, more specifically, the ligaments between bone and muscle. The elasticity reduces, the joint feels looser and subconsciously you find that you hold back a little; not that you don’t have the strength or power but rather you’re not confident in those pressure points – your joints – withstanding the impact. The difference, IMO, between Gerrard’s Burnley strike and those of prior years is his reluctance to hurl his leg and foot at the ball with reckless power and so subject his ligaments to the consequential forces. He’s feeling the impact of age in the ligaments – particularly the knees – and after that it is only a short trip to being over the hill.

So with that in mind I’ll repeat the posters comment simply to see if public opinion on our best player - at least on these boards - has been swayed by our worst season in 15 years. “I’d sellSteven Gerrard – his legs are goneâ€.
 
Cracking post Wiz. Wenger would probably sell him now, and you could see the reasons for it.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40018.msg1096591#msg1096591 date=1272595783]
Cracking post Wiz. Wenger would probably sell him now, and you could see the reasons for it.
[/quote]

Would you sell him Squigs?

I don't think he'll ever be the player he was last season or the season before. He may well still be excellent but I don't think he'll be at that level ever again.

Having said that I feel indebted to him on so many levels that I don't think I could ever sell him unless he demanded to go.
 
I wouldn't sell him because I think he still has much to offer. I would probably tweak the strategy to get the best out of him. Maybe play 3 in midfield so that he doesn't have to do all the heavy lifting. I would also rest him more often (provided we get a capable backup, Lucas is not the answer). Ultimately, Gerrard has to know his own limitations too and re-invent himself as a more 'cerebral' midfielder, not that he isn't now.
 
Good post, Wiz.
I also thought he was there running the show for about 70 + minutes, and then went missing, which seemed to be due to physical reasons. His crosses from set pieces were fantastic last night - much better than even in some of his better years.

I wouldn't sell him, as I think he still has much to offer us even if physically he's not as strong and powerfull as in previous years. He's a scouser and the team and the fans need scousers. I hope that in years to come he can turn into a Garry McAllistair and finally grow into the leader he never seemed to be.
 
Only sell him if he wants to go.

If he wants to stay, then of course we should keep him.
 
I was quite disappointed with the way he went missing towards the middle of the second half, but upon reflection not quite as much as I am with the fact that I wasn't at all surprised by that. It's really no different to what we've seen all season from him... Captain Fantastic hasn't been all that fantastic.

I've been saying all season though that it's far too early to write him off. He might not be the midfield dynamo we all remember him to be in the coming years, but then he doesn't have to be. His game isn't all about energy and powerful surges forward and that's been neglected in the original post, which good as it was, paints a very cold view of Gerrard's career being taken apart one ligament at a time.
 
He definitely isnt showing the abilities of old to take games by the scruff of the neck. However, no way would I sell him.

I'd drop him back to the holding role in place of Lucas.

I was v impressed with Aquilani last night - he is great at finding space and bringing other players in. He doesnt have the same power and drive as Gerrard of old but I reckon he will be good in that advanced role
 
[quote author=Rafiagra link=topic=40018.msg1096641#msg1096641 date=1272612746]
He definitely isnt showing the abilities of old to take games by the scruff of the neck. However, no way would I sell him.

I'd drop him back to the holding role in place of Lucas.

I was v impressed with Aquilani last night - he is great at finding space and bringing other players in. He doesnt have the same power and drive as Gerrard of old but I reckon he will be good in that advanced role
[/quote]

at last aqua can do one touch passes
 
I'm going to give Gerrard a bit of a break here. He's suffering because without torres in the game he's being marked out of it at times.
Look at Lampard at Chelsea. Same age, same position, less talented, less dynamic. 20 goals. The reason being when teams play Chelsea he is afforded space and time. Teams know the threat he poses but they also have to counter Drogba, Anelka, Malouda and Cole, so they can't single lampard out in the way they teams do against Gerrard. Gerrard is almost always faced by two players because the opposition know they can afford Dirk and Babel (eg) time because they just can't hurt you very often.
I think if we improve our attacking wide players next year Gerrard will fly.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40018.msg1096688#msg1096688 date=1272616665]
I'm going to give Gerrard a bit of a break here. He's suffering because without torres in the game he's being marked out of it at times.
Look at Lampard at Chelsea. Same age, same position, less talented, less dynamic. 20 goals. The reason being when teams play Chelsea he is afforded space and time. Teams know the threat he poses but they also have to counter Drogba, Anelka, Malouda and Cole, so they can't single lampard out in the way they teams do against Gerrard. Gerrard is almost always faced by two players because the opposition know they can afford Dirk and Babel (eg) time because they just can't hurt you very often.
I think if we improve our attacking wide players next year Gerrard will fly.
[/quote]

i agree with the sentiment, however there seems to be an apathy with gerrards play recently. It seems attitude based. Last night he was screaming at babel for not getting on a pass. The pass wasn't too babel as he had cut inside and gerrard passed it down the flank. He also had a go at lucas for not passing the ball quicker when there was no available passes as lucas was being closed down by 3 players. Lucas didn't even lose possession and gerrrd shouted at him.

The captain seems fed up and he's taking it out on his squad like a child. I serious wonder if the best player should be captain, as opposed to the best leader of men
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40018.msg1096688#msg1096688 date=1272616665]
I'm going to give Gerrard a bit of a break here. He's suffering because without torres in the game he's being marked out of it at times.
Look at Lampard at Chelsea. Same age, same position, less talented, less dynamic. 20 goals. The reason being when teams play Chelsea he is afforded space and time. Teams know the threat he poses but they also have to counter Drogba, Anelka, Malouda and Cole, so they can't single lampard out in the way they teams do against Gerrard. Gerrard is almost always faced by two players because the opposition know they can afford Dirk and Babel (eg) time because they just can't hurt you very often.
I think if we improve our attacking wide players next year Gerrard will fly.
[/quote]

Which is almost word for word what I said to my mates last night.
 
Steven Gerrard is human, he's not a robot. It's inevitable that he's gonna be effected by all that's going on around him. No matter how much you try psych yourself up, he can will still look around himself and see the team he's playing in. He started the season off with niggly injuries, as yes, he is getting older so it wasn't as easy for him to shake it off. I would put my life on the fact that Stevie is fed up of Rafa and of playing in a team where he (along with a few others) is way better than the rest of the team. Like I said he's human.

I wouldn't blame him for wanting to leave in the summer if Rafa stays. But I would be majorly disappointed if there was new investment and management and he still left.
 
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=40018.msg1096692#msg1096692 date=1272616988]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40018.msg1096688#msg1096688 date=1272616665]
I'm going to give Gerrard a bit of a break here. He's suffering because without torres in the game he's being marked out of it at times.
Look at Lampard at Chelsea. Same age, same position, less talented, less dynamic. 20 goals. The reason being when teams play Chelsea he is afforded space and time. Teams know the threat he poses but they also have to counter Drogba, Anelka, Malouda and Cole, so they can't single lampard out in the way they teams do against Gerrard. Gerrard is almost always faced by two players because the opposition know they can afford Dirk and Babel (eg) time because they just can't hurt you very often.
I think if we improve our attacking wide players next year Gerrard will fly.
[/quote]

i agree with the sentiment, however there seems to be an apathy with gerrards play recently. It seems attitude based. Last night he was screaming at babel for not getting on a pass. The pass wasn't too babel as he had cut inside and gerrard passed it down the flank. He also had a go at lucas for not passing the ball quicker when there was no available passes as lucas was being closed down by 3 players. Lucas didn't even lose possession and gerrrd shouted at him.

The captain seems fed up and he's taking it out on his squad like a child. I serious wonder if the best player should be captain, as opposed to the best leader of men
[/quote]

Two good posts, as was Wiz's original post. I agree that he's not the best possible captain in our squad - I'd have Reina, Carra and Mascherano ahead of him - but whether he should be 'relieved' of the captaincy would depend, I guess, on how much it means to him. A new manager would have to come in and persuade Stevie that it's for his own benefit as much as the benefit of the team. Not impossible, perhaps, but tricky.

Gerrard is not only 'human', as Anita says, but a particularly sensitive, introverted and irascible person. He's also, in spite of his ageing ligaments etc, a brilliant footballer. If City offered us £40m for him, then on a business level you'd have to say selling him would make sense, but he's more than just a playing asset for LFC, he's an icon. It would come down to Stevie's own decision: would he rather stay at Liverpool in the hope that we might still win the league in the next three seasons, or would he rather try his luck at a club with much greater resources and opportunities? I wouldn't blame him if he left, and I don't think it would be the end of the world - indeed it might help us in the long run - but equally I don't think we should set out to sell him, a la Wenger.

As for his future as a footballer, I agree he will have to reinvent himself. Barnes did it, turning from a brilliant winger to a very good central-midfield playmaker. Gerrard, to me, has resembled Ballack at times this season: undeniably classy, but somewhat lacking in desire and aggression. For that reason, I'm really not convinced that CM is the best place for him. He can play there, though, and if that's where the team needs him to be, then he can probably last another season or two there, injuries permitting.

I hope (but don't believe) England win the World Cup this summer, because at least it would give Gerrard a tangible reward for his brilliant career. As it is, he's looking at finishing up in 2-4 years with one Champions League, one UEFA Cup, two League Cups and two FA Cups. Not a bad haul, but pathetic compared to what the likes of Scholes and Giggs have won. And Gerrard is/was better than either of them.
 
Gerrard, to me, has resembled Ballack at times this season: undeniably classy, but somewhat lacking in desire and aggression. For that reason, I'm really not convinced that CM is the best place for him.

Horseshit
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=40018.msg1096797#msg1096797 date=1272628101]
Gerrard, to me, has resembled Ballack at times this season: undeniably classy, but somewhat lacking in desire and aggression. For that reason, I'm really not convinced that CM is the best place for him.

Horseshit
[/quote]

Watch the Wigan match again.
 
I could live with us selling Torres, I would be devastated if Gerrard left, and would know it's because essentially the club has let him down with a lack of desire and poor decisions from the ownership to managment and management decisions.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=40018.msg1096597#msg1096597 date=1272599395]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40018.msg1096591#msg1096591 date=1272595783]
Cracking post Wiz. Wenger would probably sell him now, and you could see the reasons for it.
[/quote]

Would you sell him Squigs?

I don't think he'll ever be the player he was last season or the season before. He may well still be excellent but I don't think he'll be at that level ever again.

Having said that I feel indebted to him on so many levels that I don't think I could ever sell him unless he demanded to go.
[/quote]

In the land of cold, hard logic if a bid came in over £25M+ then I could understand if we considered it.

Really though, like you say, it's all down to Steven Gerrard. He's earned that at the very least - in fact he should have earned far more in a Liverpool shirt. We're indebted to him in so many ways, and if he does decide to leave us, my one overiding thought would be: we've failed him.

It's that realisation which would make him leaving sad.
 
i think he wants to move but doesnt want to upset everyone..

i think if the move was to occur this year and he was to move overseas its the best chance he will ever get of leaving without the fans turning against him.

Real.. offer 35 million and he is yours..

we will take Diarra and Gago in the process.. Thanks
 
If he wants to go I'd sell him. Not because I want to see him go but because I feel so sorry for him. He deserves to be set free. It's like seeing a butterfly stuck on fly paper.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40018.msg1096795#msg1096795 date=1272627982]
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=40018.msg1096692#msg1096692 date=1272616988]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40018.msg1096688#msg1096688 date=1272616665]
I'm going to give Gerrard a bit of a break here. He's suffering because without torres in the game he's being marked out of it at times.
Look at Lampard at Chelsea. Same age, same position, less talented, less dynamic. 20 goals. The reason being when teams play Chelsea he is afforded space and time. Teams know the threat he poses but they also have to counter Drogba, Anelka, Malouda and Cole, so they can't single lampard out in the way they teams do against Gerrard. Gerrard is almost always faced by two players because the opposition know they can afford Dirk and Babel (eg) time because they just can't hurt you very often.
I think if we improve our attacking wide players next year Gerrard will fly.
[/quote]

i agree with the sentiment, however there seems to be an apathy with gerrards play recently. It seems attitude based. Last night he was screaming at babel for not getting on a pass. The pass wasn't too babel as he had cut inside and gerrard passed it down the flank. He also had a go at lucas for not passing the ball quicker when there was no available passes as lucas was being closed down by 3 players. Lucas didn't even lose possession and gerrrd shouted at him.

The captain seems fed up and he's taking it out on his squad like a child. I serious wonder if the best player should be captain, as opposed to the best leader of men
[/quote]

Two good posts, as was Wiz's original post. I agree that he's not the best possible captain in our squad - I'd have Reina, Carra and Mascherano ahead of him - but whether he should be 'relieved' of the captaincy would depend, I guess, on how much it means to him. A new manager would have to come in and persuade Stevie that it's for his own benefit as much as the benefit of the team. Not impossible, perhaps, but tricky.

Gerrard is not only 'human', as Anita says, but a particularly sensitive, introverted and irascible person. He's also, in spite of his ageing ligaments etc, a brilliant footballer. If City offered us £40m for him, then on a business level you'd have to say selling him would make sense, but he's more than just a playing asset for LFC, he's an icon. It would come down to Stevie's own decision: would he rather stay at Liverpool in the hope that we might still win the league in the next three seasons, or would he rather try his luck at a club with much greater resources and opportunities? I wouldn't blame him if he left, and I don't think it would be the end of the world - indeed it might help us in the long run - but equally I don't think we should set out to sell him, a la Wenger.

As for his future as a footballer, I agree he will have to reinvent himself. Barnes did it, turning from a brilliant winger to a very good central-midfield playmaker. Gerrard, to me, has resembled Ballack at times this season: undeniably classy, but somewhat lacking in desire and aggression. For that reason, I'm really not convinced that CM is the best place for him. He can play there, though, and if that's where the team needs him to be, then he can probably last another season or two there, injuries permitting.

I hope (but don't believe) England win the World Cup this summer, because at least it would give Gerrard a tangible reward for his brilliant career. As it is, he's looking at finishing up in 2-4 years with one Champions League, one UEFA Cup, two League Cups and two FA Cups. Not a bad haul, but pathetic compared to what the likes of Scholes and Giggs have won. And Gerrard is/was better than either of them.

[/quote]

Another excellent post.
 
Anyone contemplating selling our captain is nothing but a fool.

There's reasons aplenty as to why Ferguson's still keeping Giggs, Scholes and Neville. And their legs have gone a long time ago. Yet, Ferguson continues to renew their contracts every year.

Go figure why.

And oh btw, Gerrard has not even turned 30 yet. How old are Scholes and Giggs again ??
 
Still our best player. These obituries are premature. If he went, who the fuck is going to pick up the slack? Lucas? Fuck me Tom.

Surrounded by the worst squad he has been in since he's been at the club. Cheers Rafa!

Should be playing in centre fucking midfield.

Should punch Benitez in the face on all our behalfs.

Should be thanked for almost single handedly winning us the trophies we have done over the last 6 years.

Doesn't deserve cunt fans thinking that he is part of the problem at the club.

Christ.
 
Evere since readin Gerrard's book a few months back, there is a part of me that can't shift the nigglying feeling that Gerrard's form is related to the upcoming World Cup.

I think he realises that this will probably be his last World Cup and having missed major international tournaments before has had his focus slightly skewed.

I don't mean that he has lwet Liverpool down or not been committed, but thathe is mindful of the World Cup and his age and has not flung himself around with as much abandon as in previous years.

He'll stay and he'll have a storming year next year.

Unfortunately he looks like being our Bryan Robson - and the ultimate League glory may come very late on.
 
I think alor of people are overlooking the negative effect Rafa has had on things this season.

Everyone bar Torres and Reina have been poor.

You can't turn your back on Gerrard after one poor season. He's only next year.

Scholes Giggs etc have shown you can adapt and still offer much well into your mid 30's.

Barnes did it.

Gerrard can too and I would expect him to come back strong next year with a new manager.
 
I cant believe people want to sell our captain.
He is the heart and soul of this club and i would reject anything anyone offers for him.
He has 1 bad season and everyone is on his back. look at the players he has been forced to play with. (insua, lucas, n'gog etc)
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40018.msg1096911#msg1096911 date=1272642791]
Did someone just put up a sign in this thread that says 'Angry fans this way ^'
[/quote]

Heh, it did appear that way for a few minutes didn't it?


As I said earlier, whether it's the right decision or not I couldn't sell Gerrard. No one is bigger than the club and that includes Gerrard who's probably tested the theory at Liverpool more rigorously than any other player in 20 years. However, Gerrard would have been an exceptional footballer at almost any club in the world. Where we'd be just now if it hadn't been for the efforts of Gerrard over the last 7 or 8 years is difficult to think about.

I do honestly think he's begining to feel his age and for those who say Giggs or Scholes have done it so Gerrard can they need their heads read; players age at different rates and where one could play into his 40's another struggles from 26 onwards. I do, however, agree that Gerrard has had at least half an eye on South Africa and he'll be better next season.

Regardless, the post that summed it up for me was the statement that if Gerrard goes I'll just feel sad with the inescapable conclusion that we have failed him. I'm sure there will be plenty of PC fans who say that is unacceptable but that's the way it is. Ironically Jose said it very well when Gerrard turned him down; in 10 years he'll look back and see he could have won so much with us but will have won very little with Liverpool.


I'd still never sell him but, paradoxically, I don't think I could ever deny him if he requested a transfer.
 
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