This ref is rubbish. Italy are constantly obstructing England and I don't mean the tactics they're employing.
Six Nations
- Thread starter Holle
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I think that match was a great example of just how imperious Jones' England is, they play terribly for 50 minutes against some new-age tactical guff and still come out,well on top.
Poor ref, poor england for the majority and a pretty impressive tactical performance from the Italians
Poor ref, poor england for the majority and a pretty impressive tactical performance from the Italians
But this isn't a great Italy team. Wales and Ireland beat them by more.
O'Shea defintely upset England with an unconventional approach but a better side wouldn't have needed half time to adapt. A good captain can do that.
Italy's try before half time - just shouldn't happen. It was unforgiveably lax by England.
It's still a very good England side but it is a beatable one. I wouldn't bet on them doing the double over Scotland and Ireland.
O'Shea defintely upset England with an unconventional approach but a better side wouldn't have needed half time to adapt. A good captain can do that.
Italy's try before half time - just shouldn't happen. It was unforgiveably lax by England.
It's still a very good England side but it is a beatable one. I wouldn't bet on them doing the double over Scotland and Ireland.
they didn't set out to stifle either of the first two teams anything like they did England.
I think the try summed up England's attitude and response to the first half , moments before the try they panned around showing the players just wondering what was going on
it was clear from the get-go they'd trained and worked on tactics designed to stifle and confuse England , it largely worked but class will out.
I think England are too strong and too decisive going forwards for either the Scots or the Irish to stop them
I literally feel like im watching the fergie utd team, as much as the comparison hurts , they just look like they will win any /every game even when its an off day , which it certainly was for England. Its alright saying Italy aren't great , can you depend on England being that bad for 40 plus minutes ?
could be wounded beast syndrome ,me thinks
I think the try summed up England's attitude and response to the first half , moments before the try they panned around showing the players just wondering what was going on
it was clear from the get-go they'd trained and worked on tactics designed to stifle and confuse England , it largely worked but class will out.
I think England are too strong and too decisive going forwards for either the Scots or the Irish to stop them
I literally feel like im watching the fergie utd team, as much as the comparison hurts , they just look like they will win any /every game even when its an off day , which it certainly was for England. Its alright saying Italy aren't great , can you depend on England being that bad for 40 plus minutes ?
could be wounded beast syndrome ,me thinks
I don't know. A great side would have just reacted on the spot. If they aren't committing to the ruck you just pick and go and force them to stop you - its not something thay requires any great tactical analysis. Its just bad decision making from Care and symptomatic of a lack of on field leadership to play as they did in the first half.
I think a number of the England side must be wondering if they'll keep their places after that game. If i was Jones I'd be looking again closely at the combinations at 10,12, 13. As well the front five where there some sub par performances.
It's an England team full of pace and power which is extremely dangerous when things go their way. But i can see us dominating up front and not letting England get much of a platform.
I think a number of the England side must be wondering if they'll keep their places after that game. If i was Jones I'd be looking again closely at the combinations at 10,12, 13. As well the front five where there some sub par performances.
It's an England team full of pace and power which is extremely dangerous when things go their way. But i can see us dominating up front and not letting England get much of a platform.
There's certainly a remorselessness about this England side that bodes well for its future under Eddie Jones but I agree with Ross that the Irish and the Jockoes, both of whom are a good deal better than Italy, can test them to the limit. We'll have to be a good deal better ourselves than we were in the first half.
Interesting to see the comments above about poor refereeing and offsides. The TV commentators didn't share that view at all. They thought that Italy's tactic of avoiding the establishment of an offside line in many of the plays by simply not committing men to forming a ruck was quite legit and that Poite refereed it well. BTW when Haskell first consulted the ref the wording of his question was "What can we do?", which accounts for Poite's reply. Haskell was clearer the second time around and duly got the info.he was after.
Interesting to see the comments above about poor refereeing and offsides. The TV commentators didn't share that view at all. They thought that Italy's tactic of avoiding the establishment of an offside line in many of the plays by simply not committing men to forming a ruck was quite legit and that Poite refereed it well. BTW when Haskell first consulted the ref the wording of his question was "What can we do?", which accounts for Poite's reply. Haskell was clearer the second time around and duly got the info.he was after.
England were poor at the basics , in hand and at foot they were shocking throughout, again i dont see jones allowing that to stand, im sure fixes will be implemented between now and the next match
It worried me because as you point out, nobody was able to bang heads and work on counter-action plan, a decent side employing that tactic may well have completely killed the game by HT, the lack of leadership was totally evident
Your last point i disagree with, the pace and power won them the game at the weekend when absolutely nothing went their way.
i think the irish need to worry more about expectations going to Cardiff against what will be a massive chance for redemption for the Welsh than they do us doing over the Scots
I thought the England pack managed to get on top in thein the second half, and thats what ultimately led to the tries.
The first try - England win the penalty at the scrum and tap and ago. Most of the others were cases of just wearing them down, retaining possession and taking advantage when the gaps eventually appear.
I don't think expectations play a part in the 6 Nations - everyone knows the gaps aren't big between the teams . You won't turn up, play poorly and come away with a result against the home nations.
The first try - England win the penalty at the scrum and tap and ago. Most of the others were cases of just wearing them down, retaining possession and taking advantage when the gaps eventually appear.
I don't think expectations play a part in the 6 Nations - everyone knows the gaps aren't big between the teams . You won't turn up, play poorly and come away with a result against the home nations.
Yep. A 42 point spread was way to generous once you say the way Italy were going to play.
But I then back England on the lower point spread of -20 once we worked it out a bit although even that was touch and go.
Big game tonight .....
Howley is giving the team an opportunity to redeem themselves - naming an unchanged side.
We're also unchanged in the starting 15. Bowe comes back in on the bench though
Ireland team to play Wales: R Kearney; K Earls, G Ringrose, R Henshaw, S Zebo; J Sexton, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best (capt), T Furlong; D Ryan, D Toner; CJ Stander, S O'Brien, J Heaslip.
Wales: Leigh Halfpenny; George North, Jonathan Davies, Scott Williams, Liam Williams; Dan Biggar, Rhys Webb; Rob Evans, Ken Owens, Tomas Francis; Jake Ball, Alun Wyn Jones; Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric, Ross Moriarty.
Subs: Scott Baldwin, Nicky Smith, Samson Lee, Luke Charteris, Taulupe Faletau, Gareth Davies, Sam Davies, Jamie Roberts.
Howley is giving the team an opportunity to redeem themselves - naming an unchanged side.
We're also unchanged in the starting 15. Bowe comes back in on the bench though
Ireland team to play Wales: R Kearney; K Earls, G Ringrose, R Henshaw, S Zebo; J Sexton, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best (capt), T Furlong; D Ryan, D Toner; CJ Stander, S O'Brien, J Heaslip.
Wales: Leigh Halfpenny; George North, Jonathan Davies, Scott Williams, Liam Williams; Dan Biggar, Rhys Webb; Rob Evans, Ken Owens, Tomas Francis; Jake Ball, Alun Wyn Jones; Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric, Ross Moriarty.
Subs: Scott Baldwin, Nicky Smith, Samson Lee, Luke Charteris, Taulupe Faletau, Gareth Davies, Sam Davies, Jamie Roberts.
I think you're better than they are, but they'll be on a mission.
Might you be better in the 3Qs with Bowe on the right, Earls on the left and Zebo on the bench?
Might you be better in the 3Qs with Bowe on the right, Earls on the left and Zebo on the bench?
Yeah there's a few good players in the Welsh team who have yet to hit form - but i'd still fancy our chances.
Our back three is the only area i'd question too - but i have a different preference. Rob Kearney hasn't been particularly good of late and ia fortunate to hold his spot IMO. I think I might put Zebo at 15.
Bowe hasn't looked himself for a while now and most pundits are questioning his inclusion.
Zebo, Earls + 1 for me.
And i'd probably favour Gilroy. I know Schmidt is concerned about the power of the Welsh back line hence the selections - but i think North looked really vulnerable against Visser last time out and i think he might struggle to catch Gilroy or Earls.
Our back three is the only area i'd question too - but i have a different preference. Rob Kearney hasn't been particularly good of late and ia fortunate to hold his spot IMO. I think I might put Zebo at 15.
Bowe hasn't looked himself for a while now and most pundits are questioning his inclusion.
Zebo, Earls + 1 for me.
And i'd probably favour Gilroy. I know Schmidt is concerned about the power of the Welsh back line hence the selections - but i think North looked really vulnerable against Visser last time out and i think he might struggle to catch Gilroy or Earls.
Dropping the captaincy has defo helped him.
Scotland should have stayed at home
The Jockoes didn't even play that badly most of the time, but England were frightening.
The Irish will be desperate to p!$$ on our parade though. That game will be brutal.
The Irish will be desperate to p!$$ on our parade though. That game will be brutal.
I've seen him live in the Premiership twice. Once he was excellent, the other time absolute dog muck. I really don't know how to rate him because he's so variable.
Well played Ireland BTW. Aside from the Scotland game England really haven't played well all tournament, but only Ireland have been good enough to take advantage.
Well played Ireland BTW. Aside from the Scotland game England really haven't played well all tournament, but only Ireland have been good enough to take advantage.
I think the tournament showed how little there is between all of the teams - that match ups, the conditions on the day etc can all tip the balance in these games.
England deserved the Championship and were the best side throughout.
It was a very good performance by us yesterday - we managed to stifle English possession and stop the ball getting to the dangermen. I read Joseph had four touches before being subbed!
I think our back row benefitted greatly from the inclusion of O'Mahony. The English back row couldn't match the work rate of ours.
Looking to the future, Ringrose is developing nicely. I thought he showed his class at times and he didn't shirk the challenge on defence. Marmion deputised very well for Murray but Luke McGrath highlighted his talent when he came on. He's captained Leinster already and clearly has a big future. Nice to have some depth at 9.
That kick he made yesterday put the game beyond England, which is strange to say when it was a kick for touch. He had no room for error - if he fluffs that the momentum changes.
England deserved the Championship and were the best side throughout.
It was a very good performance by us yesterday - we managed to stifle English possession and stop the ball getting to the dangermen. I read Joseph had four touches before being subbed!
I think our back row benefitted greatly from the inclusion of O'Mahony. The English back row couldn't match the work rate of ours.
Looking to the future, Ringrose is developing nicely. I thought he showed his class at times and he didn't shirk the challenge on defence. Marmion deputised very well for Murray but Luke McGrath highlighted his talent when he came on. He's captained Leinster already and clearly has a big future. Nice to have some depth at 9.
That kick he made yesterday put the game beyond England, which is strange to say when it was a kick for touch. He had no room for error - if he fluffs that the momentum changes.
