Who do you think we will sign, in the event that we really push for a CB signing? (I'm asking think cos I guess the 'others' option might well end up being the winner if its change to 'want' 😛)
Poll Shawcross on Reds' wish list
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Who do you think we will sign, in the event that we really push for a CB signing? (I'm asking think cos I guess the 'others' option might well end up being the winner if its change to 'want' 😛)
Shawcross is definitely better than Skrtel.. But i'd prefer Cahill.
Cahill is the better player now and will improve.
Shawcross isn't good enough.
Shawcross isn't good enough.
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=43048.msg1228230#msg1228230 date=1291380528]
Prioritising a centre-back when we've about 7 on our books? Fucking ridiculous.
How about a striker or someone for the left side?
[/quote]
Yep
Prioritising a centre-back when we've about 7 on our books? Fucking ridiculous.
How about a striker or someone for the left side?
[/quote]
Yep
I agree with Buddha, but if we do end up signing someone like Shawcross or Cahill or Dann, I think it might be a good idea to send Danny Wilson to Stoke/Bolton/Birmingham on loan for the rest of the season to let the lad get some PL experience. Otherwise what was the point of signing him?
S
Squiggles
Guest
Buddha speaks the truth.
We've invested in Wilson. Kelly is a CB, who has had a brilliant season so far at RB. They should be given their chances. I mean, if not now then when?
A LW and a striker should be the priority. The CB issue can be sorted out in the summer.
We've invested in Wilson. Kelly is a CB, who has had a brilliant season so far at RB. They should be given their chances. I mean, if not now then when?
A LW and a striker should be the priority. The CB issue can be sorted out in the summer.
urgh...
Defenders can vary significantly under different managers..
A defence of Maldini, Costacurta, Vidic, Thuram at their best would suck balls under our current management.
how about some team building and tactics that suit what we have...
Defenders can vary significantly under different managers..
A defence of Maldini, Costacurta, Vidic, Thuram at their best would suck balls under our current management.
how about some team building and tactics that suit what we have...
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=gareth_thomas link=topic=43048.msg1228243#msg1228243 date=1291381770]
urgh...
Defenders can vary significantly under different managers..
A defence of Maldini, Costacurta, Vidic, Thuram at their best would suck balls under our current management.
how about some team building and tactics that suit what we have...
[/quote]
Johnson can't defend. Konchesky is out of position all of the time. Skrtel always has a mistake in him. Agger is always injured. Carragher, though still our best by miles, is getting on a bit.
Compare that to ----Finnan------Carragher----Hyypia----Riise---
Our defence has progressively been getting worse for a while now, and tactics don't come into it.
urgh...
Defenders can vary significantly under different managers..
A defence of Maldini, Costacurta, Vidic, Thuram at their best would suck balls under our current management.
how about some team building and tactics that suit what we have...
[/quote]
Johnson can't defend. Konchesky is out of position all of the time. Skrtel always has a mistake in him. Agger is always injured. Carragher, though still our best by miles, is getting on a bit.
Compare that to ----Finnan------Carragher----Hyypia----Riise---
Our defence has progressively been getting worse for a while now, and tactics don't come into it.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=43048.msg1228246#msg1228246 date=1291381983]
[quote author=gareth_thomas link=topic=43048.msg1228243#msg1228243 date=1291381770]
urgh...
Defenders can vary significantly under different managers..
A defence of Maldini, Costacurta, Vidic, Thuram at their best would suck balls under our current management.
how about some team building and tactics that suit what we have...
[/quote]
Johnson can't defend. Konchesky is out of position all of the time. Skrtel always has a mistake in him. Agger is always injured. Carragher, though still our best by miles, is getting on a bit.
Compare that to ----Finnan------Carragher----Hyypia----Riise---
Our defence has progressively been getting worse for a while now, and tactics don't come into it.
[/quote]
Dont buy that at all.... Rafa found the perfect tactics for that back 4.........
i reckon Hodgson would decide to play a high line and have Finnan as the predominant attacking full back.
[quote author=gareth_thomas link=topic=43048.msg1228243#msg1228243 date=1291381770]
urgh...
Defenders can vary significantly under different managers..
A defence of Maldini, Costacurta, Vidic, Thuram at their best would suck balls under our current management.
how about some team building and tactics that suit what we have...
[/quote]
Johnson can't defend. Konchesky is out of position all of the time. Skrtel always has a mistake in him. Agger is always injured. Carragher, though still our best by miles, is getting on a bit.
Compare that to ----Finnan------Carragher----Hyypia----Riise---
Our defence has progressively been getting worse for a while now, and tactics don't come into it.
[/quote]
Dont buy that at all.... Rafa found the perfect tactics for that back 4.........
i reckon Hodgson would decide to play a high line and have Finnan as the predominant attacking full back.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=43048.msg1228246#msg1228246 date=1291381983]
[quote author=gareth_thomas link=topic=43048.msg1228243#msg1228243 date=1291381770]
urgh...
Defenders can vary significantly under different managers..
A defence of Maldini, Costacurta, Vidic, Thuram at their best would suck balls under our current management.
how about some team building and tactics that suit what we have...
[/quote]
Johnson can't defend. Konchesky is out of position all of the time. Skrtel always has a mistake in him. Agger is always injured. Carragher, though still our best by miles, is getting on a bit.
Compare that to ----Finnan------Carragher----Hyypia----Riise---
Our defence has progressively been getting worse for a while now, and tactics don't come into it.
[/quote]
I agree with you there Squiggles. I think sorting out the defense should be high on the agenda. One quality central defender (Mertesacker please) would make a world of difference to our game. Left back is a problem as well but if Aurelio stays fit I think we can manage.
Johnson/Kelly---Mertesacker---Carra/Wilson/Kelly---Aurelio/Konchesky
That's not that bad any more. And so what if we have a million centre backs on our books, we'll sell a few. Agger and Skrtel could fetch a decent fee if we can find a right buyer.
[quote author=gareth_thomas link=topic=43048.msg1228243#msg1228243 date=1291381770]
urgh...
Defenders can vary significantly under different managers..
A defence of Maldini, Costacurta, Vidic, Thuram at their best would suck balls under our current management.
how about some team building and tactics that suit what we have...
[/quote]
Johnson can't defend. Konchesky is out of position all of the time. Skrtel always has a mistake in him. Agger is always injured. Carragher, though still our best by miles, is getting on a bit.
Compare that to ----Finnan------Carragher----Hyypia----Riise---
Our defence has progressively been getting worse for a while now, and tactics don't come into it.
[/quote]
I agree with you there Squiggles. I think sorting out the defense should be high on the agenda. One quality central defender (Mertesacker please) would make a world of difference to our game. Left back is a problem as well but if Aurelio stays fit I think we can manage.
Johnson/Kelly---Mertesacker---Carra/Wilson/Kelly---Aurelio/Konchesky
That's not that bad any more. And so what if we have a million centre backs on our books, we'll sell a few. Agger and Skrtel could fetch a decent fee if we can find a right buyer.
[quote author=gareth_thomas link=topic=43048.msg1228255#msg1228255 date=1291382540]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=43048.msg1228246#msg1228246 date=1291381983]
[quote author=gareth_thomas link=topic=43048.msg1228243#msg1228243 date=1291381770]
urgh...
Defenders can vary significantly under different managers..
A defence of Maldini, Costacurta, Vidic, Thuram at their best would suck balls under our current management.
how about some team building and tactics that suit what we have...
[/quote]
Johnson can't defend. Konchesky is out of position all of the time. Skrtel always has a mistake in him. Agger is always injured. Carragher, though still our best by miles, is getting on a bit.
Compare that to ----Finnan------Carragher----Hyypia----Riise---
Our defence has progressively been getting worse for a while now, and tactics don't come into it.
[/quote]
Dont buy that at all.... Rafa found the perfect tactics for that back 4.........
i reckon Hodgson would decide to play a high line and have Finnan as the predominant attacking full back.
[/quote]
Are you kidding? Hyypiä and Carragher were one of the best, if not the best, central defenses in the world. They would have been solid with almost any tactic possible.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=43048.msg1228246#msg1228246 date=1291381983]
[quote author=gareth_thomas link=topic=43048.msg1228243#msg1228243 date=1291381770]
urgh...
Defenders can vary significantly under different managers..
A defence of Maldini, Costacurta, Vidic, Thuram at their best would suck balls under our current management.
how about some team building and tactics that suit what we have...
[/quote]
Johnson can't defend. Konchesky is out of position all of the time. Skrtel always has a mistake in him. Agger is always injured. Carragher, though still our best by miles, is getting on a bit.
Compare that to ----Finnan------Carragher----Hyypia----Riise---
Our defence has progressively been getting worse for a while now, and tactics don't come into it.
[/quote]
Dont buy that at all.... Rafa found the perfect tactics for that back 4.........
i reckon Hodgson would decide to play a high line and have Finnan as the predominant attacking full back.
[/quote]
Are you kidding? Hyypiä and Carragher were one of the best, if not the best, central defenses in the world. They would have been solid with almost any tactic possible.
S
Squiggles
Guest
Yeah, a defence has nothing to do with the defensive ability of the players.
Top marks, Brains.
Top marks, Brains.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=43048.msg1228276#msg1228276 date=1291384881]
Yeah, a defence has nothing to do with the defensive ability of the players.
Top marks, Brains.
[/quote]
well, seeing as you and others seem to be suggestig that the quality of the defenders went down under benitez, and given the fact that his defences consistently conceded fewer goals than the one he inherited, i'm not sure i'd be quite so cocky in your position.
all he's saying is that a manager has an important role to play in a defence's performance, and the stats bear that out.
Yeah, a defence has nothing to do with the defensive ability of the players.
Top marks, Brains.
[/quote]
well, seeing as you and others seem to be suggestig that the quality of the defenders went down under benitez, and given the fact that his defences consistently conceded fewer goals than the one he inherited, i'm not sure i'd be quite so cocky in your position.
all he's saying is that a manager has an important role to play in a defence's performance, and the stats bear that out.
S
Squiggles
Guest
Benitez played a more defensive midfield than his predecessor, and often played with two holding midfielders, which certainly a huge factor in it. He also played 4-5-1 far more often than Houllier.
I think it's unquestionable that Houllier bought a more talented and reliable defence.
I think it's unquestionable that Houllier bought a more talented and reliable defence.
oh yeah, right, 'houllier the cavalier' - i was forgetting myself.
houllier was even more safety-first than benitez - playing predominantly on the counter, pushing few men ahead of the ball, at times playing 4 centre-halves across the back 4. i agree that he bought better defenders than benitez - largely down to the one exceptional signing of hyypia - but he squeezed curiously meagre (or not so) results from them.
eg we conceded fewer last season than in the treble year of 2001.
houllier was even more safety-first than benitez - playing predominantly on the counter, pushing few men ahead of the ball, at times playing 4 centre-halves across the back 4. i agree that he bought better defenders than benitez - largely down to the one exceptional signing of hyypia - but he squeezed curiously meagre (or not so) results from them.
eg we conceded fewer last season than in the treble year of 2001.
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=43048.msg1228296#msg1228296 date=1291385913]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=43048.msg1228276#msg1228276 date=1291384881]
Yeah, a defence has nothing to do with the defensive ability of the players.
Top marks, Brains.
[/quote]
well, seeing as you and others seem to be suggestig that the quality of the defenders went down under benitez, and given the fact that his defences consistently conceded fewer goals than the one he inherited, i'm not sure i'd be quite so cocky in your position.
all he's saying is that a manager has an important role to play in a defence's performance, and the stats bear that out.
[/quote]
Well he's going way over the top by his claims.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=43048.msg1228276#msg1228276 date=1291384881]
Yeah, a defence has nothing to do with the defensive ability of the players.
Top marks, Brains.
[/quote]
well, seeing as you and others seem to be suggestig that the quality of the defenders went down under benitez, and given the fact that his defences consistently conceded fewer goals than the one he inherited, i'm not sure i'd be quite so cocky in your position.
all he's saying is that a manager has an important role to play in a defence's performance, and the stats bear that out.
[/quote]
Well he's going way over the top by his claims.
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43048.msg1228305#msg1228305 date=1291387102]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=43048.msg1228296#msg1228296 date=1291385913]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=43048.msg1228276#msg1228276 date=1291384881]
Yeah, a defence has nothing to do with the defensive ability of the players.
Top marks, Brains.
[/quote]
well, seeing as you and others seem to be suggestig that the quality of the defenders went down under benitez, and given the fact that his defences consistently conceded fewer goals than the one he inherited, i'm not sure i'd be quite so cocky in your position.
all he's saying is that a manager has an important role to play in a defence's performance, and the stats bear that out.
[/quote]
Well he's going way over the top by his claims.
well, and i'm only guessing here, but i'd say he wasn't being entirely serious there.
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=43048.msg1228296#msg1228296 date=1291385913]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=43048.msg1228276#msg1228276 date=1291384881]
Yeah, a defence has nothing to do with the defensive ability of the players.
Top marks, Brains.
[/quote]
well, seeing as you and others seem to be suggestig that the quality of the defenders went down under benitez, and given the fact that his defences consistently conceded fewer goals than the one he inherited, i'm not sure i'd be quite so cocky in your position.
all he's saying is that a manager has an important role to play in a defence's performance, and the stats bear that out.
[/quote]
Well he's going way over the top by his claims.
[/quote]
well, and i'm only guessing here, but i'd say he wasn't being entirely serious there.
He is of course exaggerating but he seems to say that there's no point strengthening our defense because it would suck anyway. That is what I disagree with.
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=43048.msg1228303#msg1228303 date=1291386965]
oh yeah, right, 'houllier the cavalier' - i was forgetting myself.
houllier was even more safety-first than benitez - playing predominantly on the counter, pushing few men ahead of the ball, at times playing 4 centre-halves across the back 4. i agree that he bought better defenders than benitez - largely down to the one exceptional signing of hyypia - but he squeezed curiously meagre (or not so) results from them.
eg we conceded fewer last season than in the treble year of 2001.
[/quote]
I didn't suggest that Houllier was cavalier, just that a midfield of Kuyt, Xabi Alonso, Gerrard Macherano and Riera is stronger defensively, fitter, and worked harder than any Houllier midfield, which goes a long way to helping the defence. We pressed with a great intensity under Benitez and it was very difficult to play through us.
And defensive as it was, Houllier did play played 4-4-2 far more often than Benitez.
oh yeah, right, 'houllier the cavalier' - i was forgetting myself.
houllier was even more safety-first than benitez - playing predominantly on the counter, pushing few men ahead of the ball, at times playing 4 centre-halves across the back 4. i agree that he bought better defenders than benitez - largely down to the one exceptional signing of hyypia - but he squeezed curiously meagre (or not so) results from them.
eg we conceded fewer last season than in the treble year of 2001.
[/quote]
I didn't suggest that Houllier was cavalier, just that a midfield of Kuyt, Xabi Alonso, Gerrard Macherano and Riera is stronger defensively, fitter, and worked harder than any Houllier midfield, which goes a long way to helping the defence. We pressed with a great intensity under Benitez and it was very difficult to play through us.
And defensive as it was, Houllier did play played 4-4-2 far more often than Benitez.
Latest valuation mentioned is £10.5 million for Shawcross.
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=43048.msg1228306#msg1228306 date=1291387241]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43048.msg1228305#msg1228305 date=1291387102]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=43048.msg1228296#msg1228296 date=1291385913]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=43048.msg1228276#msg1228276 date=1291384881]
Yeah, a defence has nothing to do with the defensive ability of the players.
Top marks, Brains.
[/quote]
well, seeing as you and others seem to be suggestig that the quality of the defenders went down under benitez, and given the fact that his defences consistently conceded fewer goals than the one he inherited, i'm not sure i'd be quite so cocky in your position.
all he's saying is that a manager has an important role to play in a defence's performance, and the stats bear that out.
[/quote]
Well he's going way over the top by his claims.
well, and i'm only guessing here, but i'd say he wasn't being entirely serious there.
[/quote]
gareth thomas?
he probably was.
Houillier had a better defence though; aside from Hyppia, we're forgetting that he also bought Henchoz,Hamaan and Riise.
Unfortunately he bought crap pretty much everywhere else, especially in midfield which is probably the main reason why Benitez's teams concede less.
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43048.msg1228305#msg1228305 date=1291387102]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=43048.msg1228296#msg1228296 date=1291385913]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=43048.msg1228276#msg1228276 date=1291384881]
Yeah, a defence has nothing to do with the defensive ability of the players.
Top marks, Brains.
[/quote]
well, seeing as you and others seem to be suggestig that the quality of the defenders went down under benitez, and given the fact that his defences consistently conceded fewer goals than the one he inherited, i'm not sure i'd be quite so cocky in your position.
all he's saying is that a manager has an important role to play in a defence's performance, and the stats bear that out.
[/quote]
Well he's going way over the top by his claims.
[/quote]
well, and i'm only guessing here, but i'd say he wasn't being entirely serious there.
[/quote]
gareth thomas?
he probably was.
Houillier had a better defence though; aside from Hyppia, we're forgetting that he also bought Henchoz,Hamaan and Riise.
Unfortunately he bought crap pretty much everywhere else, especially in midfield which is probably the main reason why Benitez's teams concede less.
Hahaha yeah Juventus will go from having greats like Paolo Montero, Cannavaro, Zambrotta gracing their defence to the likes of Shawcross?
And if Stoke do sell Shawcross it will be for a highly inflated price as is the norm with English footballers.
What a joke it is when clubs like Sunderland and Stoke put 15M+ tags on Henderson and Shawcross.
And if Stoke do sell Shawcross it will be for a highly inflated price as is the norm with English footballers.
What a joke it is when clubs like Sunderland and Stoke put 15M+ tags on Henderson and Shawcross.
Haha. You're right, roopy. That said, the 'standard' of Juve's rearguard has been on the down over the years. Legrottaglie is aging, re-signing Grosso only to find him a 'deteriorating' player (albeit his recent 'slight' return to form) and having to loan Motta and Traore to beef up the defence speaks about its quality.
The price inflation for British players and British market in general will continue for the foreseeable future I guess. Looking forward to the next Europa league game next week for Wilson and Kelly to prove their worth, again.
The price inflation for British players and British market in general will continue for the foreseeable future I guess. Looking forward to the next Europa league game next week for Wilson and Kelly to prove their worth, again.
[quote author=Roopy link=topic=43048.msg1229890#msg1229890 date=1291691282]
Hahaha yeah Juventus will go from having greats like Paolo Montero, Cannavaro, Zambrotta gracing their defence to the likes ofShawcross Poulsen?
And if Stoke do sell Shawcross it will be for a highly inflated price as is the norm with English footballers.
What a joke it is when clubs like Sunderland and Stoke put 15M+ tags on Henderson and Shawcross.
[/quote]
Hahaha yeah Juventus will go from having greats like Paolo Montero, Cannavaro, Zambrotta gracing their defence to the likes of
And if Stoke do sell Shawcross it will be for a highly inflated price as is the norm with English footballers.
What a joke it is when clubs like Sunderland and Stoke put 15M+ tags on Henderson and Shawcross.
[/quote]
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