Second best attack in the clubs history!

[Beamrider]

There’s a whole symbiotic relationship between attack and defence which we’ve covered loads on here.

Our forwards are nowhere near the standard we need to win the league. Despite our luck just last night, we should’ve been home and dry YET AGAIN. Some of the shite final balls and being offside when they shouldn’t took the game away just as much as conceding goals.

Time and time again we missed big chances in the big moments and were punished.

Big chances missed:

Arsenal 58
City 70
LFC 75

Arsenal only had Saka and Havertz (11 each) in double figures, City had Haaland (33) and Alvarez (10), we had Darwin (27), Mo (15) and Diaz (12).

Our forward line missed more big chances than Arsenal's entire team (Nunez 27, Mo 15, Diaz 12, Gakpo 5, Jota 3 - Total 62).

 

[Frogfish]

We've hit the woodwork 24 times in the league this season which is pretty insane. Some of its bad luck but its also a sign of poor finishing if we're being honest.

It's an insane figure. And yes we can claim poor finishing but it's also just a matter if inches/cms, so also pure bad luck (at times). this has not been our luckiest season and Klopp isn't a 'lucky' manager.

 

[Fabio]

Big chances missed:

Arsenal 58
City 70
LFC 75

Arsenal only had Saka and Havertz (11 each) in double figures, City had Haaland (33) and Alvarez (10), we had Darwin (27), Mo (15) and Diaz (12).

Our forward line missed more big chances than Arsenal's entire team (Nunez 27, Mo 15, Diaz 12, Gakpo 5, Jota 3 - Total 62).

jeeeeeesus christ this hurts

 

[Frogfish]

I think Klopp should take a lot of the credit for the number of chances we created - he cannot put the ball in the net himself, but he can draw up plays that make the chance possible. I thinn we lead the league in XG this season - that shows the quality of Klopp’s work.

Does the xGA also fairly reflect the quality of his work then ? You can't claim one without the other.

 

[tombrown]

I don't think it's even agenda driven... it's ego driven.

The nodding "look how smart I am" wink wink.

Gross.

But he did inform us thusly

 

[Fabio]

But he did inform us thusly

As you were

 

[Whaddapie]

third best defence in the league this season

This is why it's tiring. Both attack and defence could have, and should have done much better. Stupid goals to concede (quansah against united), stupid chances missed (diaz at city).

We don't need to fix 1 thing; we need to fix both.

We need for defence:
1) a consistent, fully developed CB to partner virgil, who's not going to break down. Create a stable partnership
2) stop inverting trent like a fucking mong.
3) get a DM who isn't just high energy. Someone who can read the game as well

We need for attack:
1) a reliably fit goal scorer, whos about to enter their prime
2) consistency in the 8's and front line. How can we consistently create and build understanding if we're constantly changing them? I get rotation but we rotate a fucking lot
3) Future proof now. Salah won't be an output machine forever.

We're disjointed and less than the sum of our parts at the minute. and it's fucking tiring as all fuck hearing the opposing arguments.

Why waste your time, mate? Everybody - EVERYBODY - knows this... Some eejits just pretend that they don't.

 

[King Binny]

Sorry but I'm with Dreamy here (and that's so rare it's worthy of note) ! You can't score that many goals (though I need clarification of how we rate goals-per-match rather than an absolute number in a season with a huge number of games). @King Binny

Seasons

liverpoolfc.fandom.com

Statistics for the 2023-2024 season - LFChistory - Stats galore for Liverpool FC!

LFChistory.net is all about the history of Liverpool FC. We have got all the match results from 1892 to today along with great player profiles

www.lfchistory.net

 

[bluebell]

Rather creating another thread, how does Slot fix the issues. Klopp was rigid with his 4-3-3 with the high line. If its personnel changes, who goes and who comes in? If its formation, and style then discuss?
Wil Slot we see the wings being used more, so someone like Sesko could thrive.

 

[Frogfish]

Seasons

liverpoolfc.fandom.com

Statistics for the 2023-2024 season - LFChistory - Stats galore for Liverpool FC!

LFChistory.net is all about the history of Liverpool FC. We have got all the match results from 1892 to today along with great player profiles

www.lfchistory.net

View attachment 3521

Cheers mate !

You have to say again looking at that - we have scored the most goals per game of any of Klopp's seasons however a bit behind his best PL goals per season. But we are nowhere near the lowest goals against (1 goal vs Wolves would equal 2nd worst) and with easily the worst Clean Sheets of any season.

 

[rurikbird]

Does the xGA also fairly reflect the quality of his work then ? You can't claim one without the other.

In the David Lynch video I posted in the Villa thread, he makes the argument that Klopp consciously chose a more chaotic and less controlled playing style for this season and overall, his choice has been justified. We probably don’t quite have what it takes in the squad currently to control games the way some of Klopp’s earlier LFC teams did. So yes, Klopp takes responsibility both for attacking success and the defensive frailties.

 

[StevieM]

Sorry but I'm with Dreamy here (and that's so rare it's worthy of note) ! You can't score that many goals (though I need clarification of how we rate goals-per-match rather than an absolute number in a season with a huge number of games). @King Binny

If this holds up though how many we missed becomes relatively irrelevant though it's a handy stick to beat our attack with instead of looking elsewhere for the major culprit (VAR, Injuries, defence, poor subs).

I think we've dropped off when we dropped out of the title race, understandable. However prior to that had VAR had done its job on multiple occasions, had we not conceded the first goal 14 times in the PL and had our defence not given up too many crucial goals at important moments then we'd likely still be leading the PL. Villa was actually a perfect study, how we were in total control and still managed to conceded two more goals.

Of course more goals will never go amiss - but it's conceding goals (either the first or when we've been ahead) that cost us on more occasions than not scoring that extra goal, this season. Titles are won first and foremost by the defence.

I’m wagering the guy that’s been gurning all season about us playing too many games is now using selective data to try and make some other irrelevant point.

In other words… we’ve scored more than previous seasons because we’ve played more games than previous seasons.

This is before we consider that we’re playing against lower calibre teams in Europe and had a good run against lower league teams in the cups.

I’d wager the only other season we scored more was the season we reached every cup final and lost the league by a point on the last day - ie we played more games.

I think you’re right to correlate goals to amount of games played - but Dreamie is too eager to make his own “look at me” points he forgets to even check them.

It’s certainly not the 2nd best in terms of League goals scored - equal 4th under Klopp, although with a game to go that could improve.

More bullshit from the sites biggest bullshiter.

Remember the rules - anytime Dreamie makes a “big statement” it’s likely to be wrong.

 

[darkstarexodus]

Well, this is some really interesting analysis.

Let's try to get somewhere here. Do you think we play elite attacking football?

This prompts me to consider that we generate so many chances (and goals) by virtue of the aggressive style we play rather than by the quality of our attackers or their interplay.

With better attackers we could have a better balance between attack and defense OR utterly roast teams by converting the volume of chances we create

 

[StevieM]

Seasons

liverpoolfc.fandom.com

Statistics for the 2023-2024 season - LFChistory - Stats galore for Liverpool FC!

LFChistory.net is all about the history of Liverpool FC. We have got all the match results from 1892 to today along with great player profiles

www.lfchistory.net

View attachment 3521

Yeah… so the increase in goals is coming from Europa league & Cup games.

The ones Dreamie thought we shouldn’t be playing in.

If only we could play Sparta Prague, Toulouse, LASK & Championship teams every week… eh Dreamie.

 

[Brizzle]

This best attack in the Premier League though, and third best defence.

 

[StevieM]

Big chances missed:

Arsenal 58
City 70
LFC 75

Arsenal only had Saka and Havertz (11 each) in double figures, City had Haaland (33) and Alvarez (10), we had Darwin (27), Mo (15) and Diaz (12).

Our forward line missed more big chances than Arsenal's entire team (Nunez 27, Mo 15, Diaz 12, Gakpo 5, Jota 3 - Total 62).

Remember… it’s all the defences fault.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Well, this is some really interesting analysis.

Let's try to get somewhere here. Do you think we play elite attacking football?

That depends on your definition of elite attacking football?

If it’s based on goals then considering this our second best ever season with less games, in arguably the best league in the world then yes I’d say yes we do.

Do I wish we converted more of the chances our elite attacking created? Sure? Is it normal for teams to miss more chances than the score? Also yes.

What’s that old phrase?
Attacks win games, defences win titles.

In terms of peak performance our attack was way closer to its peak than the defenders which has been leaky and open all season.

The narrative that if we scored more goals we’d have won the league is rubbish when clearly our poor defensive performance is what should take the largest portion of the blame.

A big part of this is because our midfield wasn’t up to scratch and as I’ve said enough times, for me that’s a combination of Klopps style, the energy it takes from the players both mentally, physically and emotionally along with the fact our squad wasn’t good enough to challenge on all fronts leaving fuck all time to recovery or plan for the next opponent.

 

[StevieM]

That depends on your definition of elite attacking football?

If it’s based on goals then considering this our second best ever season with less games, in arguably the best league in the world then yes I’d say yes we do.

Do I wish we converted more of the chances our elite attacking created? Sure? Is it normal for teams to miss more chances than the score? Also yes.

What’s that old phrase?
Attacks win games, defences win titles.

In terms of peak performance our attack was way closer to its peak than the defenders which has been leaky and open all season.

The narrative that if we scored more goals we’d have won the league is rubbish when clearly our poor defensive performance is what should take the largest portion of the blame.

A big part of this is because our midfield wasn’t up to scratch and as I’ve said enough times, for me that’s a combination of Klopps style, the energy it takes from the players both mentally, physically and emotionally along with the fact our squad wasn’t good enough to challenge on all fronts leaving fuck all time to recovery or plan for the next opponent.

You still trying to peddle this pish even after it’s been explained to you that we played more games than than every season bar one and the increase in goals came from us humping shit teams in Europes 2nd tier comp and lower league teams in domestic cups.

Let me break it down for you again, cause it’s struggling to get in that thick head of yours - we didn’t need to score a fuck load more goals - just 5 or 6 key ones in key matches - but we were let down in those key, season changing moments by some really bad finishing.

It’s not on one player - there are 4 or 5 different players that we’re presented with glorious chances, had they been taken, which they should, we’d have won the league.

The defensive errors are less about individual failings and more about a system that is overcommitted to attack - and when you do that - you need to make sure you take your chances, because when you don’t, you give the opponent every opportunity to exploit it.

That is our season in a nutshell - it’s Klopp in a nutshell and it’s been fucking amazing.

 

[Farkmaster]

That depends on your definition of elite attacking football?

If it’s based on goals then considering this our second best ever season with less games, in arguably the best league in the world then yes I’d say yes we do.

Do I wish we converted more of the chances our elite attacking created? Sure? Is it normal for teams to miss more chances than the score? Also yes.

What’s that old phrase?
Attacks win games, defences win titles.

In terms of peak performance our attack was way closer to its peak than the defenders which has been leaky and open all season.

The narrative that if we scored more goals we’d have won the league is rubbish when clearly our poor defensive performance is what should take the largest portion of the blame.

A big part of this is because our midfield wasn’t up to scratch and as I’ve said enough times, for me that’s a combination of Klopps style, the energy it takes from the players both mentally, physically and emotionally along with the fact our squad wasn’t good enough to challenge on all fronts leaving fuck all time to recovery or plan for the next opponent.

No no, no! You are circling, first back to the numbers, and then some other argument that I never brought up. I don't think our team was good enough to win the league in all sorts of ways and I said it all season long. Not the defense. Not the midfield. Not the attack. It wasn't a good enough team.

It's you that are isolating and defending the attack based on numbers. I'm asking for your opinion. You watched the games, right? Do you think we play elite attacking football? My metric is "did I see us play elite attacking football." Can you access that within your own brain?

I'm asking you, when you think of this team do you think, by god, we play some fucking deadly stuff going forward, we are consistently an elite attack?

I don't, we squandered all sorts of chances before they were even chances. We didn't know when to risk things and when to hold the ball. We developed attacks and nobody was in the box sometimes. Our attack was good sometimes because of huge positional risks, not because of our passing an opponent at tempo. The ball retention of the attack in certain game states was fucking horrible

I'm not even thinking about the finishing, which is of course very important, and made it worse. We played a million different attacking looks due to injuries, fixture congestion, and form, and none of them had that telepathic understanding (perhaps because of it!). The team as a whole played aggressively when it had the energy. The midfield was a lot more vibrant when we dominated a game, the forwards themselves were ok individually but their interplay was rarely elite.

 

[LarryHagman]

It's not the 2nd best ever in the League. We've been in the UEFA Cup this season and gone all the way in the League Cup. Plenty of goals, yes. But 2nd best attack in the history of the club, no.
This is the 5th Klopp season we've conceded 40+ in the Prem, it's a good job we score loads.

 

[MomoWASright]

They were fucking shite today. Same old shit.

 

[Fabio]

They were fucking shite today. Same old shit.

Thanks CHRIST quansah and Elliott were there.

Danns has a lot of work to do to get these cunts looking cohesive

 

[Dreambeliever]

It's not the 2nd best ever in the League. We've been in the UEFA Cup this season and gone all the way in the League Cup. Plenty of goals, yes. But 2nd best attack in the history of the club, no.
This is the 5th Klopp season we've conceded 40+ in the Prem, it's a good job we score loads.

the commentary today commented a lot about how Klopp inherited a leaky defence and is leaving with us in the same position. Not much blame on the attack. Didn’t realise we had the best home record in the league just mentally weak on the road this season.

 

[StevieM]

the commentary today commented a lot about how Klopp inherited a leaky defence and is leaving with us in the same position. Not much blame on the attack. Didn’t realise we had the best home record in the league just mentally weak on the road this season.

Like you, most of what comes out of Martin Tyler & Jim Beglin’s mouth is utter garbage.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Like you, most of what comes out of Martin Tyler & Jim Beglin’s mouth is utter garbage.

Not in this case. They couldn’t be more accurate. Our defence has been rubbish this season.

 

[Brizzle]

Not in this case. They couldn’t be more accurate. Our defence has been rubbish this season.

Our defence was the third best in the league this season. Our attack was the third best in the league this season.

 

[Frogfish]

Like you, most of what comes out of Martin Tyler & Jim Beglin’s mouth is utter garbage.

Beglin is as thick as two short planks - half the time I'd be surprised if he even understand the crap he spouts, or it's just blindingly obvious patter, to anyone with half a brain. I simply can't understand how they persist with him.

 

[StevieM]

Our defence was the third best in the league this season. Our attack was the third best in the league this season.

In addition to that, the closest team to us in terms of goals conceded was Everton who conceded 10 goals more.

In terms of goals scored Newcastle, Chelsea & Villa were within 10 goals of our total.

We scored 10 less that City, but conceded only 7 less.

Villa conceded 20 more but scored only 10 less.

The defence could have been better, for sure but the top scorers won the league and the best defence finished second - therefore it’s hard not to conclude that we needed to score a few more.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Our defence was the third best in the league this season. Our attack was the third best in the league this season.

Defences win titles and ours was miles off the top 2. Our attack wasn’t. Again as I’ve said a few times. Sure the attack missed important chances but our shithouse defence (in terms of chasing a title) was what takes the bulk of the blame this season without question.

 

[tombrown]

But more importantly, did anyone yet work out how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?