Scott Dann

[Pesam]

[quote author=DHSC link=topic=44681.msg1339343#msg1339343 date=1306421900]
I havent really seen much of either Cahill or Dann. But do we really have to sign either of them? Can't we sign somewhere more unknown (hence cost less) but can turn out to be really good like Sami? That's what Comolli is here for right?
[/quote]

Watch Ashley Williams of Swansea in the Championship play off final against Reading. There's a reason Swansea have had the meanest defence in the Championship for the last 2 seasons.

If Swansea don't go up I reckon we could get him for half the quoted price of Dann and he's a better player.

 

[DHSC]

Do you think he will be able to make the step up to Premier League football though Pesam? I would love to see us sign a lower league player and then transform him into a world class player, or at least good enough to play for us at the highest level.

 

[Pesam]

[quote author=DHSC link=topic=44681.msg1339353#msg1339353 date=1306422593]
Do you think he will be able to make the step up to Premier League football though Pesam? I would love to see us sign a lower league player and then transform him into a world class player, or at least good enough to play for us at the highest level.
[/quote]

When a team signs a player from a foreign league there's alway a risk involved regarding how they adapt to the different style of play and similarly there's a risk with lower league players; they can look good at one level but you will never know for sure how they'll adapt to the higher standard.

I saw Dean Whitehead (Oxford United) and Liam Lawrence (Mansfield) play fairly regularly in the 2nd division about 5 years ago and I was impressed each time. I was 100% sure they could play in the 1st Division and also fairly confident that they could be Championship players but I never thought they'd make it as EPL players but both have played quite a few games at this level.

Huddersfield fans would have laughed if you'd told them Gary Taylor-Fletcher would be a regualar in an EPL team, they didn't think he was good enough for them in the 1st division!

There are quite a few players in the lower divisions that, if given a chance, I think could hack it in the EPL but not one that I'd be prepared to say is 100% certainly good enough.

Of all the CB's currently playing outside the EPL I would say that Williams is the most likely to make the grade. Another one to watch out for next season is Craig Dawson who should break into the WBA side next season having signed from Rochdale.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44681.msg1339316#msg1339316 date=1306420052]
If we buy anyone cos they "represent better value" than someone else, I'm blowing up the Internet.

Case in point, that article above. Scott Dann "represents better value than Gary Cahill". All that means is we can't afford the good one.

Shay Given would "represent better value" than that De Gea cunt, but do you see Ferguson thinking like that?

Do you fuck.

Fuck off better value.
[/quote]

There's a myriad of interpretations of that comment and it's just an article anyway. He could have the potential to be better than Cahill, he could be marginally different with about £10m difference in the transfer market.

I agree we shouldn't be going for second choices ala Pennant over Alves, but then we shouldn't get screwed either and leave ourselves with fuck all. We need a centre back, a left back, a midfielder, at least one winger and a striker. Now dependant on budgets I'd say we need to probably be sensible somewhere and I'd wager paying £18m for a centre back would go out the window if it left us with little else left to spend elsewhere.

 

[singlerider]

[quote author=Pesam link=topic=44681.msg1339363#msg1339363 date=1306424109]
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=44681.msg1339353#msg1339353 date=1306422593]
Do you think he will be able to make the step up to Premier League football though Pesam? I would love to see us sign a lower league player and then transform him into a world class player, or at least good enough to play for us at the highest level.
[/quote]

When a team signs a player from a foreign league there's alway a risk involved regarding how they adapt to the different style of play and similarly there's a risk with lower league players; they can look good at one level but you will never know for sure how they'll adapt to the higher standard.

I saw Dean Whitehead (Oxford United) and Liam Lawrence (Mansfield) play fairly regularly in the 2nd division about 5 years ago and I was impressed each time. I was 100% sure they could play in the 1st Division and also fairly confident that they could be Championship players but I never thought they'd make it as EPL players but both have played quite a few games at this level.

Huddersfield fans would have laughed if you'd told them Gary Taylor-Fletcher would be a regualar in an EPL team, they didn't think he was good enough for them in the 1st division!

There are quite a few players in the lower divisions that, if given a chance, I think could hack it in the EPL but not one that I'd be prepared to say is 100% certainly good enough.

Of all the CB's currently playing outside the EPL I would say that Williams is the most likely to make the grade. Another one to watch out for next season is Craig Dawson who should break into the WBA side next season having signed from Rochdale.

[/quote]

I reckon we could get Pesam for about half the price of Comolli and he's the better scout

 

[Hansern]

[quote author=Pesam link=topic=44681.msg1339340#msg1339340 date=1306421776]
Arsenal should sign Dann because he is hugely similar to all the CB's Wenger signs - Vermaelen, Koscielny, Squillaci etc, in that he's better going forward than defending, he's easily bullied (it would be more apparent if Johnson wasn't beside him) and he's very injury prone.

£10m down the tubes if ye ask me.
[/quote]

Dann is not under any circumstances better going forward than defending. There is a reason the Brum defence has struggled without him and there is a reason the Brum fans think he's better than Johnson.

He's not injury prone. 50 league games in 2 seasons for Brum, with one serious injury missing half the second part of this season. And played 47 games for Coventry the one year he was there.

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=44681.msg1339378#msg1339378 date=1306427057]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=44681.msg1339340#msg1339340 date=1306421776]
Arsenal should sign Dann because he is hugely similar to all the CB's Wenger signs - Vermaelen, Koscielny, Squillaci etc, in that he's better going forward than defending, he's easily bullied (it would be more apparent if Johnson wasn't beside him) and he's very injury prone.

£10m down the tubes if ye ask me.
[/quote]

Dann is not under any circumstances better going forward than defending. There is a reason the Brum defence has struggled without him and there is a reason the Brum fans think he's better than Johnson.

He's not injury prone. 50 league games in 2 seasons for Brum, with one serious injury missing half the second part of this season. And played 47 games for Coventry the one year he was there.
[/quote]

Why thank you. Thought I was going mad for a minute. I rate Dann more highly than Johnson & I'd take him over Johnson any day of the week.

 

[keniget]

24, barely heard of till a few years ago and relegated with Birmingham.

He's not going to really improve us, is he?

 

[MomoWASright]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=44681.msg1339394#msg1339394 date=1306430826]
24, barely heard of till a few years ago and relegated with Birmingham.

He's not going to really improve us, is he?
[/quote]

Of the 20 games he missed they lost 9, that's why they went down.

 

[jexykrodic]

You should never sign players from relegated teams. I mean, they can't be any good can they?. Players like Scott Parker, Charlie Adam etc must be shite.

I don't know too much of Dann but if he's picked by Dalglish then he'd be good enough for me.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44681.msg1339399#msg1339399 date=1306431889]
You should never sign players from relegated teams. I mean, they can't be any good can they?. Players like Scott Parker, Charlie Adam etc must be shite.

I don't know too much of Dann but if he's picked by Dalglish then he'd be good enough for me.
[/quote]

I don't know much about him either... his CV doesn't really inspire confidence though, which the only point I was making.

And hero-worshipping aside, Dalglish is far from infallible.

 

[RolandG]

Don't know who Dann is and haven't heard of him.

We shouldn't be spending more than £10M on any defender.

Get an experienced EPL defender. Samba would be half the price.

 

[jexykrodic]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=44681.msg1339402#msg1339402 date=1306432602]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=44681.msg1339399#msg1339399 date=1306431889]
You should never sign players from relegated teams. I mean, they can't be any good can they?. Players like Scott Parker, Charlie Adam etc must be shite.

I don't know too much of Dann but if he's picked by Dalglish then he'd be good enough for me.
[/quote]

I don't know much about him either... his CV doesn't really inspire confidence though, which the only point I was making.

And hero-worshipping aside, Dalglish is far from infallible.
[/quote]

Indeed but I'd put Dalglish's chances of picking a player on par with most other people; if in fact he is interested.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=44681.msg1339394#msg1339394 date=1306430826]
24, barely heard of till a few years ago and relegated with Birmingham.

He's not going to really improve us, is he?
[/quote]

You could probably have said the same about Henchoz 12 years or so ago. Relegated with Blackburn who had a horrendous defence at the time.

 

[Fabio]

didn't birminghams slip in form coincide with his injury? Or is that a myth?

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44681.msg1339450#msg1339450 date=1306439810]
didn't birminghams slip in form coincide with his injury? Or is that a myth?
[/quote]

No myth, he was out for 20 games, they lost 9 of them.

 

[Rosco]

The beauty of signing him is that he comes complete with his hamstring already damaged so he'll fit in with the rest of our defenders.

 

[MomoWASright]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44681.msg1339519#msg1339519 date=1306447623]
The beauty of signing him is that he comes complete with his hamstring already damaged so he'll fit in with the rest of our defenders.
[/quote]

Birmingham didn't help his cause there. He was telling them his hamstring was tight for about but they made him play. It made me think is he that important to their defense.

 

[King Binny]

With regards to his injury record, his appearances record for Walsall and Coventry wasn't too bad. Made 30 league appearances in his 1st EPL season with Birmingham too. Hardly injury prone, more of a one-off.

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=44681.msg1339394#msg1339394 date=1306430826]
24, barely heard of till a few years ago and relegated with Birmingham.

He's not going to really improve us, is he?
[/quote]

There are those who believe that Birmingham were relegated because of the time he missed through injury.

 

[refugee]

No idea how good he is, but I trust the King more than anybody else in football, so I presume he is amazing.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

re-sale value....

I'd rather we signed someone who was here for 15 years and didn't have to bother selling him.

 

[Pesam]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=44681.msg1339378#msg1339378 date=1306427057]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=44681.msg1339340#msg1339340 date=1306421776]
Arsenal should sign Dann because he is hugely similar to all the CB's Wenger signs - Vermaelen, Koscielny, Squillaci etc, in that he's better going forward than defending, he's easily bullied (it would be more apparent if Johnson wasn't beside him) and he's very injury prone.

£10m down the tubes if ye ask me.
[/quote]

Dann is not under any circumstances better going forward than defending. There is a reason the Brum defence has struggled without him and there is a reason the Brum fans think he's better than Johnson.

He's not injury prone. 50 league games in 2 seasons for Brum, with one serious injury missing half the second part of this season. And played 47 games for Coventry the one year he was there.
[/quote]


1. Which Birmingham fans rate him higher than Johnson? In the Birmingham forums I don't get that impression and my friends in Birmingham rate Johnson as the better player.

2. HE IS INJURY-PRONE; 50 league games in 2 season equates to less than 66% of games played and although you are correct that he played most games the season before, he missed 15 league games the season before that and 16 league games the season before that - so he has had one injury-free season in 5!

3. Birmingham had no adequate back-up for the Johnson/Dann partnership, whichever of them got injured it was going to affect Birminghams defensive record.

 

[Hansern]

How is one major injury in 3 years injury prone??
3 seasons = 97 games. That makes no sense whatsoever.

A mate who lives in Birmingham told me they rate Dann more than Johnson. Tbh it means fuck all and if Kenny wants him then fine.

 

[Pesam]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=44681.msg1339612#msg1339612 date=1306484859]
How is one major injury in 3 years injury prone??
3 seasons = 97 games. That makes no sense whatsoever.

A mate who lives in Birmingham told me they rate Dann more than Johnson. Tbh it means fuck all and if Kenny wants him then fine.
[/quote]

Jaysus Hansern I've given you the figures, it's quite simple........out of 214 league games he could have played over the last 5 seasons he has played 156. That means he has played 72% of league matches in his career. Given that he is due to miss the start of the season this will bring it down to about 70% - that's what I call injury-prone.

 

[Hansern]

Heh, so you're using the numbers from his early career when he was a bit part player aswell in those statistics?

I dont know why I bother anyway, but fine:

He was only a regular from 2006 for Walsall, where he played 59 games in 2 season.
47 games in one season for Coventry
And then 50 games in 2 seasons for Brum with him missing 4 months of the last part of this season.

In other words he has played 75 % of every game for the last 5 years, with in mind that he missed 18 games this seasonw with one serious injury.
Agger has played 40% of all the games he could have during his spell with us, thats injury prone.

If averaging 31,7 games pr season with 2 serious injuries included is injury prone, then I have to rethink what injury prone actually mean.

 

[Pesam]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=44681.msg1339640#msg1339640 date=1306486891]
Heh, so you're using the numbers from his early career when he was a bit part player aswell in those statistics?

I dont know why I bother anyway, but fine:

He was only a regular from 2006 for Walsall, where he played 59 games in 2 season.
47 games in one season for Coventry
And then 50 games in 2 seasons for Brum with him missing 4 months of the last part of this season.

In other words he has played 75 % of every game for the last 5 years, with in mind that he missed 18 games this seasonw with one serious injury.
Agger has played 40% of all the games he could have during his spell with us, thats injury prone.

If averaging 31,7 games pr season with 2 serious injuries included is injury prone, then I have to rethink what injury prone actually mean.
[/quote]

He's played 72% (soon to go dwon to 70%) and not 75%.

I only quoted from 2006 when he became a regular.

Your quote of 31 games per season includes 3 seasons in the lower league where they play 46 games per season, so that's 66% of games.

Dann = Injury prone, Agger = Crock.

I give up hansern you're obviously not listening.

 

[Hansern]

Oh, Im listening. I just dont agree that having played nearly 3/4 of every game including 2 serious injuries in 5 years is injury prone. If those parameters were used a loooooooooooooot of players would be injury prone.

 

[Pesam]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=44681.msg1339647#msg1339647 date=1306487923]
Oh, Im listening. I just dont agree that having played nearly 3/4 of every game including 2 serious injuries in 5 years is injury prone. If those parameters were used a loooooooooooooot of players would be injury prone.
[/quote]

Ok lets leave it at.............Pesam considers any player to have played only 72% of games over a 5 year period to be injury prone, Hansern does not.

 

[Modo]

Comparison check Aggers percentage?