Safe Standing to be trialled in the SPL

[Rosco]

There's bound to be mixed feelings on any such move, but given it works well in Germany why can't it work elsewhere ?

Scottish Premier League clubs have been given the go-ahead to implement safe-standing areas at their grounds. After a general meeting on Monday the SPL decided to relax rules dating back to 1994 which state all top-flight clubs must have a minimum 6,000-capacity all-seat stadium. Celtic are known to be investigating the possibility of returning a terracing section to their ground, with any such moves likely to be generally popular with supporters.

"Since I joined the SPL in 2009 there has been widespread support among fans to reintroduce safe-standing areas," said Neil Doncaster, the chief executive of the SPL. "I'm delighted we have been able to respond positively to supporters' views on improving the match-day experience."

Although not bound by law, Scottish football chose to adopt the recommendations of the Taylor report, which followed the Hillsborough disaster of 1989. Families of those killed at Hillsborough maintain terraces should not, for safety reasons, be reintroduced. Before standing areas can be sanctioned by the SPL approval must be given by local council safety committees and the police.

The Premier League, however, has made it clear there will be no such move in England. "The bottom line is that it is illegal under the legislation that was brought in after Hillsborough," a Premier League spokesman, Dan Johnson, said. "We can't have standing in the Premier League and the Championship and it's not a situation we would like to see change."

Celtic have been charged by Uefa after their fans set off flares and displayed a banner offensive to the European governing body at last week's Europa League match against Udinese. A group of Celtic fans held a banner with "Fuck Uefa" on it in protest at a fine imposed on the club for illicit chanting at a Europa League fixture. Uefa's control and disciplinary body will judge on the latest Celtic case at its meeting on 26 January.

 

[doctor_mac]

As you say, some people will understandably be unnerved by the idea. I do think it has to be possible to find ways to implement safe terracing- as you say, the Germans seem to make it work. There's no doubt the atmosphere in a ground tends to be improved if there is a terraced area.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47996.msg1447555#msg1447555 date=1324371871]
As you say, some people will understandably be unnerved by the idea. I do think it has to be possible to find ways to implement safe terracing- as you say, the Germans seem to make it work. There's no doubt the atmosphere in a ground tends to be improved if there is a terraced area.
[/quote]

And it's still happening without incident in rugby grounds every year.

 

[Mystic]

Would reduce ticket prices and create more capacity, I'm all for this. I'm too young to remember the tragedies though.

 

[Athens]

What exactly do they do to make the terracing safe?

 

[Squiggles]

By ALAN PATTULLO
Published on Tuesday 20 December 2011 01:18

STANDING areas could return to Scottish football, although club officials have warned that such a step will come at a price.

Stephen Thompson, chairman of Dundee United and a newly-appointed member of the Scottish Premier League board, has welcomed the initiative, but doubted many clubs could afford to implement it.

United are one of the clubs who spent many millions of pounds renovating Tannadice in order to meet a requirement for all-seated stadia. This was later adopted in 1998 by the Scottish Premier League, which set a minimum limit at 10,000 seats. The number was later reduced to 6,000, and this will still have to be met even if clubs opt to install a modern-version of the terracing which once dominated most British football grounds. Don’t expect railway sleepers and mounds of black ash, put it that way.

“The problem is people expect a return to old terracing and the way those of a certain age watched football when they were growing up,” said Thompson. “It isn’t going to be like that.

“This is a different way of standing. These seats can be locked up and locked down again. It’s still one space per person.”

And, Thompson pointed out, it is also costly. “The model we saw costs about £100 a seat. If you put even just 300 of those in, it will cost you £30,000. It’s an expensive exercise”

The momentum for the move has come from Celtic, who have listened to the views of their fans following a proposal by the Celtic Supporters Trust. Neil Doncaster, the SPL chief executive, yesterday admitted that “it’s fair to say, one club are particularly keen”.

A feasibility study into standing areas at Celtic is already well under way, led by Peter Lawwell. The club’s chief executive was last week forced to rail against a “rogue” element of fans who held aloft an offensive banner and threw flares onto the pitch during the Europa League clash against Udinese in Italy.

An area of Celtic Park populated by the Green Brigade is already an unofficial standing zone and Lawwell is keen to see the SPL recognise the desire for safe standing. As of yesterday, the SPL board now has the ability to approve requests from clubs to pilot safe standing areas for use in SPL matches. According to Doncaster, the extent to which clubs wish to trial these standing areas “is for them to decide”.

Rangers are also keen to investigate the possibility of creating a standing area at Ibrox Park. They, too, have been motivated by the will of the fans. The club released a statement last night which read: “The fans have intimated for some time their desire for a standing area within Ibrox stadium and this is something the club have been looking at in terms of feasibility,” it read.

“However, we are fully aware this will require the support of Glasgow City Council’s Safety Team as per SPL rules.”

Both clubs have reason to be as aware of the safety issues as anyone. A crush at the end of an Old Firm game in 1961 left two people dead, and then ten years later, after another Rangers v Celtic clash at Ibrox, 66 people perished when steel barriers gave way on Stairway 13.

A Strathclyde Police spokeswoman expressed surprise when asked for a response to the SPL’s announcement. “We have not had any detailed discussions with the SPL around the safe-standing areas,” she said. “We were therefore surprised by this announcement today.”

However, there is no question of there being a return to the crumbling, steep terraces of old where a mass of humanity would sway back and forth and surge forward at times of high excitement.

“It’s not terracing like we knew it, it’s not like what you would still find at somewhere like Morton, to use an example,” said John Yorkston, the Dunfermline chairman. He is in favour of anything which might stimulate interest in watching football. Dunfermline recently shut down a stand at East End Park in order to save costs after SPL crowds failed to meet with expectations.

“What we are going to do is look at the safe standing area and look at what costs are involved,” he said. The East End Park board met yesterday and director Rodney Shearer was handed the responsibility of looking into the issue. “If it can be justified cost-wise, I’ll be happy to look into it,” said Yorkston. “But if it comes to £250,000 then it’s £250,000 we don’t have.”

The model being followed is that used in German football, and with considerable success. Although Doncaster talked up this form of safe standing yesterday, the cost of installing the necessary flip-up seats and the probable need to make alterations to the existing stairs could make clubs balk in these straitened times. Clubs are seeking to reduce costs, not increase them.

Doncaster pointed to systems used in Europe such as ‘Rail’, where there is a safety barrier and a seat on every row which can be locked for SPL games and unfolded for other competitions, as options for interested clubs. “There is no suggestion that we are simply opening up the terracing again,” he said. “It is about introducing areas that are safe for standing, like the Rail system that we have seen working successfully in Germany might be considered.

“I have seen it as Borussia Dortmund and at Cologne. The atmosphere is generates is sensational.”

There is, however, a difference between the 80,000 regularly attracted to Dortmund’s Westfalenstadion and the 8,000 or so diehards who currently attend Easter Road, for example.

Hibs have completely renovated their stadium and are rightly proud of its 20,000 seats. It is the country’s largest fully-covered Uefa compliant stadium outside Glasgow. The club reacted with a certain amount of coolness to yesterday’s news, releasing a statement which recognised the change in climate with regard to standing areas. However, the club hoped fans would contribute to generating an atmosphere without the need to accommodate standing.

“If these rules were to change then we may review the position regarding standing sections at football matches,” a spokesman said. “In the meantime this does not mean that supporters should sit on their hands for 90 minutes. We wish the matchday experience to be an enjoyable one. However, supporters are encouraged to use the seating provided for their own and others’ safety, as well as to ensure that the view of those seated around them is not restricted.”

Here, indeed, is the rub. Fans already stand, and when they do it en masse it is hard for anyone to stop them.

 

[Squiggles]

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[Squiggles]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47996.msg1447676#msg1447676 date=1324382505]

Scottish Premier League clubs have been given the green light to introduce safe standing sections at their stadiums.

Teams can now ask the SPL board to sanction a standing area at their ground, subject to further approval from the police and local authorities.

But just how different would the new areas be compared to the terracing of yesteryear?

Does this mean a return to old-style terracing?

No. The league’s chief executive, Neil Doncaster, says a particular form of safe standing currently used by eight top flight teams in Germany, known as rail seats, will be the permitted form of new-style terracing.

How do rail seats work?

Rail seats replace the current plastic seating in stadiums, with each chair having a high back which serves as a rail. Each seat folds up and is locked, with clubs able to unlock each chair when an all-seater arena is required, for example in European matches.

How much does it cost?

At present, one rail seat costs 100 euros (£84), compared to around £30 for each plastic seat currently used at grounds.

One argument made in favour of rail seats is the long-term cost benefit. Current plastic seating is prone to damage and may need replaced over time, whereas rail seating is seen as more durable.

Will it increase capacity?

Although there is provision in some German grounds for two fans to stand for each rail seat, owing to there being two steps between each seat, the SPL’s chief executive says the pilot scheme will see one supporter occupy each rail seat space.

Are rail seats already used?

To comply with UEFA regulations in 2000, German clubs had to find an option to both satisfy the requirements of the governing body but also continue to meet their own supporters’ desire to stand at games.

Hannover 96, Werder Bremen, Stuttgart, Hoffenheim, Wolfsburg, Bayer Leverkusen and Hamburg all subsequently installed rail seats installed in their grounds.

At Hoffenheim’s Rhein-Neckar-Arena, which opened in 2009, 9,150 places in the 30,150 capacity stadium are reserved for standing.

“The Germans believe standing is the natural way to watch football,” Jon Darch of the Safe Standing Roadshow told STV.

“Going forward, for a modern solution for appropriate accommodation for fans, rail seats are, in my mind, the only solution, certainly at least for clubs with aspirations to play in UEFA competitions.”

Are they safe?

Although argument rages over whether any form of standing can be completely safe as opposed to seating, those in favour of the technology insist there is no evidence to argue the use of rail seats is more dangerous or safer than seating.

What if my team plays in European competition?

To comply with UEFA guidelines on all-seater grounds in the Champions League and Europa League, each rail seat can be unlocked by stadium staff prior to games to create a folding chair, removing the standing section without affecting the overall capacity.

Can they be installed in every stadium?

Cost aside, the installation of rail seats largely depends on the gradient of the stand in which they are being installed. In German grounds, some clubs use two step rail seats on lower tiers but, due to a steeper gradient, upper tiers are normally resticted to one occupant.

Are there any clubs interested?

Celtic themselves have viewed the option, having been visited by the Safe Standing Roadshow as part of the club’s own feasibility study.

Are there Scottish clubs opposed to the plans?

St Mirren chairman Stewart Gilmour doesn't believe his own team's ground, opened in 2009, is built for safe standing. "Our ground is specifically designed for seating and the actual heights of the councourses are for seats," he told STV.

"They are not for standing. If you stand they will catch you on the knees and it is dangerous."

When might it be in operation?

"Potentially we can receive applications from the word go so in theory it could start as early as next season," SPL chief executive Doncaster said.

"But it's really up to the clubs. Our rules currently say that no safe-standing is allowed in SPL stadia, so that is at least one hurdle removed.

"There are several stadia where it just can't be done because of the architecture of the stadium but where clubs can look at and wish to do it, this is a step forward."

Would the SPL’s promotion criteria over capacity change?

No. Every member club of the SPL would still require to have 6,000 seats to participate in the competition. The introduction of a safe standing section would be in addition to the capacity.

[/quote]

 

[Mystic]

I wonder if we'll think about including these at Stanley Park just in case it ever happens.

 

[Asbo]

THE families of Hillsborough victims have condemned a decision by the Scottish Premier League to allow standing in their stadiums.

The green light has been given to pilot a safe standing scheme at Scotland’s top-flight clubs. But last night Margaret Aspinall, chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, said she was extremely disappointed at the decision.

She said: “It’s too late for the 96, my concern now is for the living and their safety. Our stance has always been that there should be no standing whatsoever. Our worry is that this may change things for English football.”

But Scottish Premier League chief executive Neil Doncaster stressed this is not a return to the old-style terracing.

He said: “There is no suggestion we are simply opening up terracing again. It is about introducing areas that are safe for standing.”


Read More http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2011/12/20/hillsborough-disaster-family-support-group-condemn-decision-by-scottish-premier-league-to-introduce-standing-back-into-their-stadiums-92534-29980938/#ixzz1h4mzNov2

Its a very very touchy subject, a real open wound, but the 66 lost at the Old Firm Derby will of course be remembered and considered when this is going through.
We see 'standing again' and don't read whats mentioned, its standing in a seated area, nothing at all like what it was before, and to be toatally honest, its nothing that is not happenening at every match in the Prem at some point in any ground, even Anfield.

 

[Squiggles]

I'm glad it's being trialled elsewhere and I wouldn't be against seeing it at the new Anfield, but I don't think we'll have the balls to do it.