Ryan thinks Allen is boss
- Thread starter Sheik Yerbouti
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Status
What is our midfield anyway, and how does it work. I think if we figured out that somehow, it might be easier for players to adapt. We might find a bit of consistency.
Gerrard-Lucas-Allen, Gerrard-Lucas-Henderson, Gerrard-Allen-Henderson, Gerrard-Lucas-Shelvey
Gerrard-Lucas-Allen seems to be the preferred partnership, but all the above have been attempted in the last few league games.
I'm not arguing we shouldn't rotate our midfield, I just don't see some clear midfield identity that is being preserved, nor some reason as to why we are adjusting players for tactics in our central midfield. Above all, all of those combinations are really underwhelming. I don't buy that Gerrard couldn't play a more attacking role, but it seems he needs to be where he is to protect our defense more and find better and more aggressive outlet passes. But tthe former should be Lucas' role, and the latter Allen's. When Gerrard Allen and Henderson have played together, often Gerrard is the least advanced player, and yet you look at those three and can't comprehend why that should be so.
Gerrard-Lucas-Allen, Gerrard-Lucas-Henderson, Gerrard-Allen-Henderson, Gerrard-Lucas-Shelvey
Gerrard-Lucas-Allen seems to be the preferred partnership, but all the above have been attempted in the last few league games.
I'm not arguing we shouldn't rotate our midfield, I just don't see some clear midfield identity that is being preserved, nor some reason as to why we are adjusting players for tactics in our central midfield. Above all, all of those combinations are really underwhelming. I don't buy that Gerrard couldn't play a more attacking role, but it seems he needs to be where he is to protect our defense more and find better and more aggressive outlet passes. But tthe former should be Lucas' role, and the latter Allen's. When Gerrard Allen and Henderson have played together, often Gerrard is the least advanced player, and yet you look at those three and can't comprehend why that should be so.
I agree Joe Allen will be a player if given time.
And you were indeed right about Dalglish's signings (except for Henderson). Although you weren't the only one.
Yeah but we're so fucking similar re player views Del that I count you as me effectively.
I am unsure If it is Allen or the setup not working properly. Maybe both. If this system are going to work we need aggressive midfielders able to move their feet fast. Both to close down when we chase the ball but also to get through the opposision press levels when we have the ball. Allen as deep laying midfield is a waste. But he need to show he can step up his game when we have the ball. There he has not delivered at all. At this stage he is way behind Adam in return on investment.
Yep that Enrique is shit alright.
He largely is.
It's a combination of the players and the midfield strategy - which has evolved into about 10 different things sicne Rodgers has taken over.
Lucas hasn't been 100% fit.
Allen's tired.
Gerrard;s best position in there is still debatable.
He doesn’t trust shelve to work hard enough.
Henderson doesn’t offer a lot.
And our wide players – Sterling, Downing, whomever – don’t offer a whole heap.
So we look woefully disjointed.
I’ve said it before on here – world class central midfield pairings/combos aren’t that common. There’s Barca and that’s about it. United’s midfield on it’s own has been largely shite and in need of a rehaul for years, they get away with it because they’ve got such talent and quality in the wide and front areas. City’s is arguably better because Barry and Toure are a workabale pairing, but beyond that – there’s no great midfield set-up’s around.
Wilshere and Arteta? Meh.
Neville & Osman? Mehssi
Mikel & whomever? Meher.
Sandro & Dembele? Mehatmugandhi
It’s cos they’re surrounded by attacking quartets including Bale, Defoe, Cazorla, Walcott, Rooney, Van Persie, Kagawa, Silva, Tevez, Agueor – that their midfield becomes less relevant. I’m not saying they’re kippers or anything, but their need to be Vieira or Keane isn’t as critical. Our issue is that we’ve (had) suarez and that’s yer lot so when he’s not performing we blame the midfield (cos you can’t lay the blame at sterling’s door given his inexperience, and everyone’s given up on Downing) so therefore we expect more out of Gerrard, Allen, Lucas, etc.
If you look at the stats, the likes of Gerrard has performed as well, if not better than just about every other CM in the league – he doesn’t receive that adulation from us though because we need him to be doing that as a mimumun, and more in order to mask the deficiencies of the rest of our side.
Ha ha. Yep Enrique is largely shit. Jesus Christ.
He's not a regular for a midtable club and he never has or will play for his country.
You could argue that he's average I suppose, but what's the point? To try and refute the point that nearly all of Dalglish's signings were shit? Be my guest.
I think our transfer business has been fucking horrendous since the season afte we finished 2nd in the league.
Suarez is the one and only shining light since then.
Reina - pre
Agger - pre
Johnson - pre
Skrtel - pre
Enrique - shit
Lucas - pre
Gerrard - pre
Allen - Jurys out BUT 15m
Henderson - Jurys out BUT 17m
Sterling - Youth
Downing - Shit
Suso - Youth
Suarez - Brilliant
Borini - Jurys out
Its fucking tragic that we have spent like 200m since then and have got Suarez to show for it.
Suarez is the one and only shining light since then.
Reina - pre
Agger - pre
Johnson - pre
Skrtel - pre
Enrique - shit
Lucas - pre
Gerrard - pre
Allen - Jurys out BUT 15m
Henderson - Jurys out BUT 17m
Sterling - Youth
Downing - Shit
Suso - Youth
Suarez - Brilliant
Borini - Jurys out
Its fucking tragic that we have spent like 200m since then and have got Suarez to show for it.
It does seem to be his preferred line up but its got an obvious flaw, Lucas and Allen in the same team is very static and lacking in pace. Where Gerrard and Allen have been good this season is when he has had Shelvey Enrique or Henderson doing the leg work and covering the ground, not just in terms of pressing the opposition but dragging them out of position and creating space for our midfield to operate, Lucas hasn't had a good game this year.
Lucas and Allen play too close together and try to occupy the same space, it narrows the play and makes our midfield easy to contain, this is particularly evident in games like Sunday where our wide players offer absolutely nothing and keep funneling the ball back towards the middle. I cant see a system that will accomodate both of them unless its got 2 lightening quick wingers stretching the game and a box to box midfielder of the sort Gerrard was 5 years ago.
An ageing Gerrard combined with those 2 is very easy to play against, Allen will come good but hes at a low point now and needs to be benched for a few games. Long term he will be a good player for us but he cant play alongside Lucas and Gerrard
Borini - Jury's out BUT £11M!!!
The jury needs to start getting favourable on £50m odd of talent!
Im a Sturridge fan.
I think he will be great.
Until he goes 1 week without scoring and then you'll think he's shite of course.
Joe Allen - a 15 mill scapegoat?
Joe Allen is one of the finest examples in recent years of young British talent. He combines composure, vision and well-rooted experience and all this at the tender age of just 22. Why have some Liverpool fans turned against him so soon?
On the evening of the 10th of August, no Liverpool fan was despondent at the signing of Joe Allen from Swansea City. He, maybe, was seen as ever so slightly overpriced for someone who had only one Premier League season under his belt but people had belief that the new manager, Brendan Rodgers, knew what he was doing after working with the player so closely. In some ways Allen was a hallmark signing. He set the foundations of the philosophy in which Brendan was looking to employ. He was the proof of the revolution. No longer would Steven Gerrard’s frequent sixty-yard cross-field passes be tolerated under Rodgers but instead the slow build up play, in a dominating midfield, would be the order of the day.
It was clear that Rodgers’ had a clear vision. He needed players to carry this ethos into the dressing room and especially onto the pitch. At Swansea Allen had become, alongside Britton, one of the hardest midfields to unlock. They had the right chemistry to succeed and their styles combined as beautifully as bacon does with egg. Perhaps just bringing Allen would be the mistake? Did the Welshman play well because of the system he was in and the way it was already established?
Roberto Martinez had implemented the passing culture before Rodgers at SWA1; therefore Allen had grown into it beside the other first team players who followed the teachings as closely as a religion. At Liverpool it would be a different story. Allen would become the naïve teacher in a classroom reluctant to change. The new schoolmaster was seeping in a sophisticated way of playing football from which he had learned from his cultural travels abroad. These travels had ingrained a system that has become denoted as Rodgers’ way. Allen is central to this.
“It doesn’t matter how big or small you are, if you don’t have the ball you can’t score.” Brendan Rodgers
As much as you might watch Joe Allen and think ‘he doesn’t do much’, he is actually dictating how the powers above him want the ball to be moved. At the heart of the team he is almost, at this early phase in the development of Liverpool’s style, irreplaceable. It has struck me that fans are becoming inpatient. They recognise that Allen is the conductor in the orchestra and therefore he takes the brunt of the blame. Has he been as bad as people have made out? Far from it. Are people getting impatient at Allen’s performances or are they actually picking his faults up as part of the collective teams league position and the demeanour that comes with it? Is Allen a scapegoat for fan frustration? Quite possibly.
For the fans that aren’t necessarily keen on Rodgers as a manager, Allen becomes the obvious choice to blame. He was Brendan’s signing. Brendan hyped him. Brendan played him. Brendan has stuck with him through poor performances. Brendan has defended him at every possible opportunity. It works out that he is the perfect scapegoat for people that seek that quick fix to former glory.
Recently I have noticed that people who witnessed Liverpool’s ‘former glory’ are more likely to pick holes in Allen’s performances or Rodgers’ management style. People that grew up in the nineties aren’t used to scouse prosperity and utter Mersey-red dominance as much as those who were blessed with watching the likes of Kenny Dalglish and Co. They also haven’t grown up being brainwashed by the phenomenal Barcelona and their passing style that Liverpool are trying to replicate. Perhaps they don’t understand that a style such as that of the Blaugrana takes time to ripen and that Allen is just a an interpreter that has been lost in translation. These fans want to reside in the success of yesteryear and seek to justify failings as soon as they appear.
At the start of the season Joe Allen was receiving plaudits for everything he touched. He was god in whatever he did. He passed the ball with such aplomb that it was hard to ignore him. He made the game and, most importantly, Liverpool tick over at the pace he wanted. Until November you could have argued that the young man from Pembrokeshire was as close as Liverpool have come to a midfield metronome since Xabi Alonso.
There are a lot of similarities between Allen and Alonso and not just the fact that both of their surnames begin with the same letter. Both of the midfielders had a fully fit Steven Gerrard beside them and both play in between a more advanced midfielder and one that sits slightly deeper. Allen has Lucas and Xabi had Mascherano. Both of these ‘protectors’, you could argue, are at the top of their game when they play alongside both Allen and Alonso. With Alonso it worked so well, so why is there people saying that Allen and Lucas can’t play together?
When they play together the break down of the opposition’s midfield is sublime; there is no arguments with that and ball retention is also superb. However the energy that both players lack in their game seems to infuriate a large majority of fans. Again it comes down to patience. If Gerrard plays the prominent role in the midfield you would expect him to create chances.
In the recent match at Old Trafford I think I witnessed Joe Allen have his worst 45 minutes in a red shirt. There were calls for him to be hooked at half time and for Jordan Henderson to take his place as to inject some enthusiasm into the midfield. When people saw that it wasn’t Allen to be replaced at half time but Lucas, a twitter storm ensued. Rodgers engaged in a system change. He would drop Allen into the more defensive minded midfielder alongside an advanced Steven Gerrard in more of a modified 4-4-2. Allen controlled the game fantastically from this position despite the poor first half showing. When your team is in control of the ball I don’t think there is a better player in the league to keep possession. This then allowed Gerrard to get forward and support Suarez and Sturridge as the pressure built on United.
This obviously introduces more fuel to the fire of the Lucas/Allen failed partnership, but I don’t see it that way. Lucas isn’t fully fit. Allen is lacking in confidence. Together they can be fantastic. As a set of deep midfielders I think there is depth in a squad that was so thin at the start of the season.
Allen plays the game with grace. He is a delight to watch and he is only young. I’m sure he's learning from players like Gerrard and Lucas in training every day. He is at the right club and he will continue to succeed if given the chance by Rodgers, but more importantly the fans. They need to get off his back and allow him to flourish. His football brain is on a similar level to that of Luis Suarez but his genius is not always recognised and his bright start to the season proves this. Watching him for a full ninety minutes is reassuring – I feel like I can relax when he is on the ball; something I haven’t felt with a Liverpool midfielder since the departure of Alonso to Madrid. I think he is becoming more of a scapegoat as each individual match wears on. Underperformances in the squad are certainly not just limited to a singular player.
Stay with lil’ Joey. Believe me. He’s a genius.
Joe Allen is one of the finest examples in recent years of young British talent. He combines composure, vision and well-rooted experience and all this at the tender age of just 22. Why have some Liverpool fans turned against him so soon?
On the evening of the 10th of August, no Liverpool fan was despondent at the signing of Joe Allen from Swansea City. He, maybe, was seen as ever so slightly overpriced for someone who had only one Premier League season under his belt but people had belief that the new manager, Brendan Rodgers, knew what he was doing after working with the player so closely. In some ways Allen was a hallmark signing. He set the foundations of the philosophy in which Brendan was looking to employ. He was the proof of the revolution. No longer would Steven Gerrard’s frequent sixty-yard cross-field passes be tolerated under Rodgers but instead the slow build up play, in a dominating midfield, would be the order of the day.
It was clear that Rodgers’ had a clear vision. He needed players to carry this ethos into the dressing room and especially onto the pitch. At Swansea Allen had become, alongside Britton, one of the hardest midfields to unlock. They had the right chemistry to succeed and their styles combined as beautifully as bacon does with egg. Perhaps just bringing Allen would be the mistake? Did the Welshman play well because of the system he was in and the way it was already established?
Roberto Martinez had implemented the passing culture before Rodgers at SWA1; therefore Allen had grown into it beside the other first team players who followed the teachings as closely as a religion. At Liverpool it would be a different story. Allen would become the naïve teacher in a classroom reluctant to change. The new schoolmaster was seeping in a sophisticated way of playing football from which he had learned from his cultural travels abroad. These travels had ingrained a system that has become denoted as Rodgers’ way. Allen is central to this.
“It doesn’t matter how big or small you are, if you don’t have the ball you can’t score.” Brendan Rodgers
As much as you might watch Joe Allen and think ‘he doesn’t do much’, he is actually dictating how the powers above him want the ball to be moved. At the heart of the team he is almost, at this early phase in the development of Liverpool’s style, irreplaceable. It has struck me that fans are becoming inpatient. They recognise that Allen is the conductor in the orchestra and therefore he takes the brunt of the blame. Has he been as bad as people have made out? Far from it. Are people getting impatient at Allen’s performances or are they actually picking his faults up as part of the collective teams league position and the demeanour that comes with it? Is Allen a scapegoat for fan frustration? Quite possibly.
For the fans that aren’t necessarily keen on Rodgers as a manager, Allen becomes the obvious choice to blame. He was Brendan’s signing. Brendan hyped him. Brendan played him. Brendan has stuck with him through poor performances. Brendan has defended him at every possible opportunity. It works out that he is the perfect scapegoat for people that seek that quick fix to former glory.
Recently I have noticed that people who witnessed Liverpool’s ‘former glory’ are more likely to pick holes in Allen’s performances or Rodgers’ management style. People that grew up in the nineties aren’t used to scouse prosperity and utter Mersey-red dominance as much as those who were blessed with watching the likes of Kenny Dalglish and Co. They also haven’t grown up being brainwashed by the phenomenal Barcelona and their passing style that Liverpool are trying to replicate. Perhaps they don’t understand that a style such as that of the Blaugrana takes time to ripen and that Allen is just a an interpreter that has been lost in translation. These fans want to reside in the success of yesteryear and seek to justify failings as soon as they appear.
At the start of the season Joe Allen was receiving plaudits for everything he touched. He was god in whatever he did. He passed the ball with such aplomb that it was hard to ignore him. He made the game and, most importantly, Liverpool tick over at the pace he wanted. Until November you could have argued that the young man from Pembrokeshire was as close as Liverpool have come to a midfield metronome since Xabi Alonso.
There are a lot of similarities between Allen and Alonso and not just the fact that both of their surnames begin with the same letter. Both of the midfielders had a fully fit Steven Gerrard beside them and both play in between a more advanced midfielder and one that sits slightly deeper. Allen has Lucas and Xabi had Mascherano. Both of these ‘protectors’, you could argue, are at the top of their game when they play alongside both Allen and Alonso. With Alonso it worked so well, so why is there people saying that Allen and Lucas can’t play together?
When they play together the break down of the opposition’s midfield is sublime; there is no arguments with that and ball retention is also superb. However the energy that both players lack in their game seems to infuriate a large majority of fans. Again it comes down to patience. If Gerrard plays the prominent role in the midfield you would expect him to create chances.
In the recent match at Old Trafford I think I witnessed Joe Allen have his worst 45 minutes in a red shirt. There were calls for him to be hooked at half time and for Jordan Henderson to take his place as to inject some enthusiasm into the midfield. When people saw that it wasn’t Allen to be replaced at half time but Lucas, a twitter storm ensued. Rodgers engaged in a system change. He would drop Allen into the more defensive minded midfielder alongside an advanced Steven Gerrard in more of a modified 4-4-2. Allen controlled the game fantastically from this position despite the poor first half showing. When your team is in control of the ball I don’t think there is a better player in the league to keep possession. This then allowed Gerrard to get forward and support Suarez and Sturridge as the pressure built on United.
This obviously introduces more fuel to the fire of the Lucas/Allen failed partnership, but I don’t see it that way. Lucas isn’t fully fit. Allen is lacking in confidence. Together they can be fantastic. As a set of deep midfielders I think there is depth in a squad that was so thin at the start of the season.
Allen plays the game with grace. He is a delight to watch and he is only young. I’m sure he's learning from players like Gerrard and Lucas in training every day. He is at the right club and he will continue to succeed if given the chance by Rodgers, but more importantly the fans. They need to get off his back and allow him to flourish. His football brain is on a similar level to that of Luis Suarez but his genius is not always recognised and his bright start to the season proves this. Watching him for a full ninety minutes is reassuring – I feel like I can relax when he is on the ball; something I haven’t felt with a Liverpool midfielder since the departure of Alonso to Madrid. I think he is becoming more of a scapegoat as each individual match wears on. Underperformances in the squad are certainly not just limited to a singular player.
Stay with lil’ Joey. Believe me. He’s a genius.
Not at all mate.
I think hes a terrific forward.
All of the above is a pile of wank. He's been unable to pass a fucking football to a teammate. Simple as.
Not only do their surnames both begin with 'A'....
Sorry for thinking Allen isn't good enough.
He's great, he's playing so well, he's the future, he's gonna be a great and run games for us.
Fuck off, I pay my money and can say what the fuck I like. I don't rate him and he's not good enough for me. Simple as that.
He's great, he's playing so well, he's the future, he's gonna be a great and run games for us.
Fuck off, I pay my money and can say what the fuck I like. I don't rate him and he's not good enough for me. Simple as that.
Unfortunately it's looking that way and Joe Allen fans please spare us the 'he's only 22' line because we spent £15m on the guy at a time when we've fuck all to spend. He needs to deliver.
You're right. I say if he doesn't deliver within the next 4 days that we look for a buyer.
Haha, ah i'm sure it's only a little blip the Welsh Xavi is having.
I'm not convinced either way whether he's brilliant or shit. He's been shit lately, but he looked marvellous his first couple of games for us.
The question I have is, IF he gets his form back, and starts playing great etc - What role does he have in the midfield 3? Playmaker? He's not a goalscoring attacking midfielder, nor is he an enforcing DM, so the only other role I can see for him is a playmaker? And I've seen nothing in his game so far that that's in his locker? He plays some nice simple balls, buy time, the odd clever pass, but nothing searching, and not creating anything. He's like a DM without the tackling?
The question I have is, IF he gets his form back, and starts playing great etc - What role does he have in the midfield 3? Playmaker? He's not a goalscoring attacking midfielder, nor is he an enforcing DM, so the only other role I can see for him is a playmaker? And I've seen nothing in his game so far that that's in his locker? He plays some nice simple balls, buy time, the odd clever pass, but nothing searching, and not creating anything. He's like a DM without the tackling?
Yes Mors. I don't understand what he's there to do. As I said in my other Joe Sideways thread, you have one DM in a team (which is Lucas) so the other 5 attacking players should be contributing with goals.
And I can't see Allen scoring. EVER.
Yes he passes it around nicely and yadda yadda yadda but it's not enough for me. At least Xabi offered goals. You know, the things that win games?
And I can't see Allen scoring. EVER.
Yes he passes it around nicely and yadda yadda yadda but it's not enough for me. At least Xabi offered goals. You know, the things that win games?
- Status
Similar threads
-
- Locked
