T
the_khl
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Rafa's been pulling someones leg here.
Right back a priority for Rafa
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I don't see what the problem is.
Dirk Kuyt has all the attributes to be a great right back.
He coudn't be any slower than Carragher and he coulldn't be any worse at tackling than some of our other full backs... and he's certainly not as short or injury prone.
Play Maxi in front of him and make sure he tracks back.... that's what we need.
Dirk Kuyt has all the attributes to be a great right back.
He coudn't be any slower than Carragher and he coulldn't be any worse at tackling than some of our other full backs... and he's certainly not as short or injury prone.
Play Maxi in front of him and make sure he tracks back.... that's what we need.
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=jan link=topic=38706.msg1046402#msg1046402 date=1264877632]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38706.msg1046216#msg1046216 date=1264869496]
What did we get for Arbeloa? £3-4M? From a footballng of view we should've kept him and used Johnson more at RM.
[/quote]
Arbeloa wanted to go
[/quote]
Barry wanted to join us.
Did Villa let him?
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38706.msg1046216#msg1046216 date=1264869496]
What did we get for Arbeloa? £3-4M? From a footballng of view we should've kept him and used Johnson more at RM.
[/quote]
Arbeloa wanted to go
[/quote]
Barry wanted to join us.
Did Villa let him?
Barry had a longer contarct to run down, but Arbeloa was like usain bolt.
Should've kept him. Would be by far the best full back at the club.
http://www.soccerclips.net/videos/xerez-0-1-real-madrid-arbeloa
http://www.soccerclips.net/videos/xerez-0-1-real-madrid-arbeloa
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38706.msg1046415#msg1046415 date=1264878737]
[quote author=jan link=topic=38706.msg1046402#msg1046402 date=1264877632]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38706.msg1046216#msg1046216 date=1264869496]
What did we get for Arbeloa? £3-4M? From a footballng of view we should've kept him and used Johnson more at RM.
[/quote]
Arbeloa wanted to go
[/quote]
Barry wanted to join us.
Did Villa let him?
[/quote]
No, but in order not to they had to make a deal to let him go at the end of the following season, and there was talk that we'd already done the same with Arbeloa to keep him as long as we did.
Besides, it's always a risk trying to keep an unsettled player. Only those on the spot can ultimately judge whether that risk is worth taking.
[quote author=jan link=topic=38706.msg1046402#msg1046402 date=1264877632]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38706.msg1046216#msg1046216 date=1264869496]
What did we get for Arbeloa? £3-4M? From a footballng of view we should've kept him and used Johnson more at RM.
[/quote]
Arbeloa wanted to go
[/quote]
Barry wanted to join us.
Did Villa let him?
[/quote]
No, but in order not to they had to make a deal to let him go at the end of the following season, and there was talk that we'd already done the same with Arbeloa to keep him as long as we did.
Besides, it's always a risk trying to keep an unsettled player. Only those on the spot can ultimately judge whether that risk is worth taking.
S
Squiggles
Guest
Maybe, but I do think Rafa will be regretting it now.
Like plenty of others, Degen just isn't good enough.
Like plenty of others, Degen just isn't good enough.
I think Degen has looked quite dangerous for us going forward, although defensively not great.... bit like johnson but 17M cheaper in fact.
I'm not worried about us playing him as on the whole when he has played for us he has played pretty well IMO, now the injuries seem to be behind him i think he may well turn out to be a good acquisition, the Greek has done well as well IMO.
With fringe players they get a double kicking, they are slated for doing fuck all (as they are not in the team) but when they are in it's usually because a better player is out and we get fucked as a team and they get the stick for that also.
As i say I aint got no problem with Degen... he looks quick and useful.
As for him being good enough thats completely subjective, i think he may well be a cracking player in time.
I'm not worried about us playing him as on the whole when he has played for us he has played pretty well IMO, now the injuries seem to be behind him i think he may well turn out to be a good acquisition, the Greek has done well as well IMO.
With fringe players they get a double kicking, they are slated for doing fuck all (as they are not in the team) but when they are in it's usually because a better player is out and we get fucked as a team and they get the stick for that also.
As i say I aint got no problem with Degen... he looks quick and useful.
As for him being good enough thats completely subjective, i think he may well be a cracking player in time.
He's looked good going forward only from RB (when Rafa's tried to play to that strength by picking him further forward, on the right of the midfield three, he's been utter pants) and his defending has been a lot worse than just "not great". The Borussia Dortmund fans were glad to see the back of him, reckoning he's a Flash Harry who goes missing when the going gets tough. I hope you're right about him improving in time, but I've seen zero evidence to justify that view.
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=38706.msg1054734#msg1054734 date=1266235155]
I think Degen has looked quite dangerous for us going forward, although defensively not great.... bit like johnson but 17M cheaper in fact.
I'm not worried about us playing him as on the whole when he has played for us he has played pretty well IMO, now the injuries seem to be behind him i think he may well turn out to be a good acquisition, the Greek has done well as well IMO.
With fringe players they get a double kicking, they are slated for doing fuck all (as they are not in the team) but when they are in it's usually because a better player is out and we get fucked as a team and they get the stick for that also.
As i say I aint got no problem with Degen... he looks quick and useful.
As for him being good enough thats completely subjective, i think he may well be a cracking player in time.
[/quote]
He's quick and has made some encouraging runs in his last few games. He looks completely out of ideas in the final third though, so that would need to improve. It's all very well creating opportunities for yourself but it's not much use if you can't take them. Johnson is infinitely better in that respect. Degen's defending would also need to improve drastically. Again, staggeringly, it's even worse than Johnson's.
I think Degen has looked quite dangerous for us going forward, although defensively not great.... bit like johnson but 17M cheaper in fact.
I'm not worried about us playing him as on the whole when he has played for us he has played pretty well IMO, now the injuries seem to be behind him i think he may well turn out to be a good acquisition, the Greek has done well as well IMO.
With fringe players they get a double kicking, they are slated for doing fuck all (as they are not in the team) but when they are in it's usually because a better player is out and we get fucked as a team and they get the stick for that also.
As i say I aint got no problem with Degen... he looks quick and useful.
As for him being good enough thats completely subjective, i think he may well be a cracking player in time.
[/quote]
He's quick and has made some encouraging runs in his last few games. He looks completely out of ideas in the final third though, so that would need to improve. It's all very well creating opportunities for yourself but it's not much use if you can't take them. Johnson is infinitely better in that respect. Degen's defending would also need to improve drastically. Again, staggeringly, it's even worse than Johnson's.
I'm not a huge fan of Degen by any means but as back up we could have, and have had, a hell of a lot worse. The big problem is of course his fitness. The one thing a back up player should be is reliable. We could have a World Class full back as back up to Johnson but he couldn't be relied upon to be available when Johnson is not then he would be fucking useless.
If Degen can stay fit for a decent period of time then he could do the job.
If not we may as well get rid because he'd be no use to us at all.
If Degen can stay fit for a decent period of time then he could do the job.
If not we may as well get rid because he'd be no use to us at all.
If Rafa thought he was any good at right back, he'd play there.
Makes you wonder why the fuck he is still at the club then.
Makes you wonder why the fuck he is still at the club then.
At least Degan seems to put some effort in, he is not as bad as we have made out.
Anyways back to the point, I think Rafa's plan will be to bring in a right back and play Johnson on the right wing.
I think Rafa is probably like us, pleased with his forward play , but perhaps a little disapointed with his defensive qualities.
Now as to if that is a priority I don't know, but it's an idea I am not against
regards
Anyways back to the point, I think Rafa's plan will be to bring in a right back and play Johnson on the right wing.
I think Rafa is probably like us, pleased with his forward play , but perhaps a little disapointed with his defensive qualities.
Now as to if that is a priority I don't know, but it's an idea I am not against
regards
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38706.msg1054839#msg1054839 date=1266261633]
At least Degan seems to put some effort in, he is not as bad as we have made out.
Anyways back to the point, I think Rafa's plan will be to bring in a right back and play Johnson on the right wing.
I think Rafa is probably like us, pleased with his forward play , but perhaps a little disapointed with his defensive qualities.
Now as to if that is a priority I don't know, but it's an idea I am not against
regards
[/quote]
I always thought he was destined to be a right midfielder when he played for Chelsea. It would be interesting to see what he could do without the responsibility of having to get back all the time. That said, I have a feeling that he may be better on the overlap than if he was starting in the right midfield position. Be nice to see it tried though.
At least Degan seems to put some effort in, he is not as bad as we have made out.
Anyways back to the point, I think Rafa's plan will be to bring in a right back and play Johnson on the right wing.
I think Rafa is probably like us, pleased with his forward play , but perhaps a little disapointed with his defensive qualities.
Now as to if that is a priority I don't know, but it's an idea I am not against
regards
[/quote]
I always thought he was destined to be a right midfielder when he played for Chelsea. It would be interesting to see what he could do without the responsibility of having to get back all the time. That said, I have a feeling that he may be better on the overlap than if he was starting in the right midfield position. Be nice to see it tried though.
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38706.msg1054839#msg1054839 date=1266261633]
At least Degan seems to put some effort in, he is not as bad as we have made out.
Anyways back to the point, I think Rafa's plan will be to bring in a right back and play Johnson on the right wing.
I think Rafa is probably like us, pleased with his forward play , but perhaps a little disapointed with his defensive qualities.
Now as to if that is a priority I don't know, but it's an idea I am not against
regards
[/quote]
I'd be very surprised if that's his plan Vlad.
All Johnson needs at right-back is games, and the experience of playing alongside Carragher and others for a period of time. It might take a year or so, but eventually he'll mould into a solid defdnder. He's got the ability and attributes, he just lacks defensive nous and experience. Ashley Cole and Evra were the same once upon a time.
At least Degan seems to put some effort in, he is not as bad as we have made out.
Anyways back to the point, I think Rafa's plan will be to bring in a right back and play Johnson on the right wing.
I think Rafa is probably like us, pleased with his forward play , but perhaps a little disapointed with his defensive qualities.
Now as to if that is a priority I don't know, but it's an idea I am not against
regards
[/quote]
I'd be very surprised if that's his plan Vlad.
All Johnson needs at right-back is games, and the experience of playing alongside Carragher and others for a period of time. It might take a year or so, but eventually he'll mould into a solid defdnder. He's got the ability and attributes, he just lacks defensive nous and experience. Ashley Cole and Evra were the same once upon a time.
Agree. If Degen is not as bad as we've made out (about which I'm not convinced, but Vlad's seen more of him than I have) that goes double for Magic's defending, which is sound enough for Capello to make him first choice for England. There was a media frenzy on that issue earlier this season and it disappoints me that too many Reds, along with others, have swallowed it whole.
As for playing Magic further forward, while Rafa may indeed be thinking of doing that I for one hope he doesn't. Degen may provide an instructive comparison in that respect too - he played OK in one or two games at RB previously but has been a disaster at RM. Magic's the England right back. Leave him be IMHO.
As for playing Magic further forward, while Rafa may indeed be thinking of doing that I for one hope he doesn't. Degen may provide an instructive comparison in that respect too - he played OK in one or two games at RB previously but has been a disaster at RM. Magic's the England right back. Leave him be IMHO.
Interesting to see the different viewpoints there tbh. Personally if i was the manager and you said to me you can have your 17M back and have a fit Degen instead i'd snap your hand of.... not that i think Degen is necessarily a good player but for me the jury is till well and truly out on Magic, number of shitty positional mistakes fucking disastrous confidence sapping OG against Arsenal etc etc... I agree with the pundits tbh i think he is a dodgy defender. For 17M i find myself wanting a pretty fucking great RB, he isnt, at least not yet.
As for his being Englands RB, well fuck a duck, that's hardly a stamp of quality.
How good/bad/awful Degen is is hard to say as of yet because he hasn't played that much, clearly he is not Ashley Cole or Evra but fickle as we are if he gets a run in the team and continues to make good runs down the right and keeps his nose clean at the back.... pie in the sky but you get my point.
Who is to say Degen couldnt be a good player for us? He was castigated severely for being a sicknote when he arrived, everybody thinking he was a dud etc and then he's done OK when he's come into a struggling team, obviously making the effort, good pace etc... What if he pops up witha goal or two or lays a few good chances on?...doesn't know what to do in the final thrid? At the minute there is usually no fucker in there!!
All i'm saying is is that it is possible he might not be as laugable as we all thought he was.
And as for Magic has he really done much to justify the massive outlay? etc etc.... not fair on Johnson he didnt decide the price but .... I hope he does mind you!
As for his being Englands RB, well fuck a duck, that's hardly a stamp of quality.
How good/bad/awful Degen is is hard to say as of yet because he hasn't played that much, clearly he is not Ashley Cole or Evra but fickle as we are if he gets a run in the team and continues to make good runs down the right and keeps his nose clean at the back.... pie in the sky but you get my point.
Who is to say Degen couldnt be a good player for us? He was castigated severely for being a sicknote when he arrived, everybody thinking he was a dud etc and then he's done OK when he's come into a struggling team, obviously making the effort, good pace etc... What if he pops up witha goal or two or lays a few good chances on?...doesn't know what to do in the final thrid? At the minute there is usually no fucker in there!!
All i'm saying is is that it is possible he might not be as laugable as we all thought he was.
And as for Magic has he really done much to justify the massive outlay? etc etc.... not fair on Johnson he didnt decide the price but .... I hope he does mind you!
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38706.msg1054979#msg1054979 date=1266315206]
About 4 months ago, Spidey claimed Glenjo was the best right back in the World. I laughed all over the top of him then too.
[/quote]
I still think that. just because as a team we are all over the fucking place doesn't mean johnson is poor fullback. as for his defensive laspes we have center backs who defend deep, TWO holding midfielders, and right midfielder who thinks he's a defender so you'd think ONE of them would cover the gaps he leaves. lets piss on the fire on one of the few excellent attacking players we actually possess.
About 4 months ago, Spidey claimed Glenjo was the best right back in the World. I laughed all over the top of him then too.
[/quote]
I still think that. just because as a team we are all over the fucking place doesn't mean johnson is poor fullback. as for his defensive laspes we have center backs who defend deep, TWO holding midfielders, and right midfielder who thinks he's a defender so you'd think ONE of them would cover the gaps he leaves. lets piss on the fire on one of the few excellent attacking players we actually possess.
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=38706.msg1054972#msg1054972 date=1266315007]
Interesting to see the different viewpoints there tbh. Personally if i was the manager and you said to me you can have your 17M back and have a fit Degen instead i'd snap your hand of.... not that i think Degen is necessarily a good player but for me the jury is till well and truly out on Magic, number of shitty positional mistakes fucking disastrous confidence sapping OG against Arsenal etc etc... I agree with the pundits tbh i think he is a dodgy defender. For 17M i find myself wanting a pretty fucking great RB, he isnt, at least not yet.
As for his being Englands RB, well fuck a duck, that's hardly a stamp of quality.
How good/bad/awful Degen is is hard to say as of yet because he hasn't played that much, clearly he is not Ashley Cole or Evra but fickle as we are if he gets a run in the team and continues to make good runs down the right and keeps his nose clean at the back.... pie in the sky but you get my point.
Who is to say Degen couldnt be a good player for us? He was castigated severely for being a sicknote when he arrived, everybody thinking he was a dud etc and then he's done OK when he's come into a struggling team, obviously making the effort, good pace etc... What if he pops up witha goal or two or lays a few good chances on?...doesn't know what to do in the final thrid? At the minute there is usually no fucker in there!!
All i'm saying is is that it is possible he might not be as laugable as we all thought he was.
And as for Magic has he really done much to justify the massive outlay? etc etc.... not fair on Johnson he didnt decide the price but .... I hope he does mind you!
[/quote]
Capello picking somebody may be "hardly a stamp of quality" to you, mate, or to those idiots in the media. His record says you and they are both wrong. Besides, as others have pointed out, people were saying similar things about Cole and Evra not that long ago.
Who is to say Degen couldn't be a good player for us? The Borussia Dortmund fans for one, who were amazed when we bought him (I went on their websites to check what they thought of him) - and they're a club who like us. Done OK in a struggling team? Is that why it's been necessary to push Carra out to RB and play Degen out of position, where he's had a mare each time?
Interesting to see the different viewpoints there tbh. Personally if i was the manager and you said to me you can have your 17M back and have a fit Degen instead i'd snap your hand of.... not that i think Degen is necessarily a good player but for me the jury is till well and truly out on Magic, number of shitty positional mistakes fucking disastrous confidence sapping OG against Arsenal etc etc... I agree with the pundits tbh i think he is a dodgy defender. For 17M i find myself wanting a pretty fucking great RB, he isnt, at least not yet.
As for his being Englands RB, well fuck a duck, that's hardly a stamp of quality.
How good/bad/awful Degen is is hard to say as of yet because he hasn't played that much, clearly he is not Ashley Cole or Evra but fickle as we are if he gets a run in the team and continues to make good runs down the right and keeps his nose clean at the back.... pie in the sky but you get my point.
Who is to say Degen couldnt be a good player for us? He was castigated severely for being a sicknote when he arrived, everybody thinking he was a dud etc and then he's done OK when he's come into a struggling team, obviously making the effort, good pace etc... What if he pops up witha goal or two or lays a few good chances on?...doesn't know what to do in the final thrid? At the minute there is usually no fucker in there!!
All i'm saying is is that it is possible he might not be as laugable as we all thought he was.
And as for Magic has he really done much to justify the massive outlay? etc etc.... not fair on Johnson he didnt decide the price but .... I hope he does mind you!
[/quote]
Capello picking somebody may be "hardly a stamp of quality" to you, mate, or to those idiots in the media. His record says you and they are both wrong. Besides, as others have pointed out, people were saying similar things about Cole and Evra not that long ago.
Who is to say Degen couldn't be a good player for us? The Borussia Dortmund fans for one, who were amazed when we bought him (I went on their websites to check what they thought of him) - and they're a club who like us. Done OK in a struggling team? Is that why it's been necessary to push Carra out to RB and play Degen out of position, where he's had a mare each time?
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38706.msg1054992#msg1054992 date=1266315759]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38706.msg1054979#msg1054979 date=1266315206]
About 4 months ago, Spidey claimed Glenjo was the best right back in the World. I laughed all over the top of him then too.
[/quote]
I still think that. just because as a team we are all over the fucking place doesn't mean johnson is poor fullback. as for his defensive laspes we have center backs who defend deep, TWO holding midfielders, and right midfielder who thinks he's a defender so you'd think ONE of them would cover the gaps he leaves. lets piss on the fire on one of the few excellent attacking players we actually possess.
[/quote]
Neil, he cant defend.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38706.msg1054979#msg1054979 date=1266315206]
About 4 months ago, Spidey claimed Glenjo was the best right back in the World. I laughed all over the top of him then too.
[/quote]
I still think that. just because as a team we are all over the fucking place doesn't mean johnson is poor fullback. as for his defensive laspes we have center backs who defend deep, TWO holding midfielders, and right midfielder who thinks he's a defender so you'd think ONE of them would cover the gaps he leaves. lets piss on the fire on one of the few excellent attacking players we actually possess.
[/quote]
Neil, he cant defend.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38706.msg1054998#msg1054998 date=1266315881]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38706.msg1054992#msg1054992 date=1266315759]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38706.msg1054979#msg1054979 date=1266315206]
About 4 months ago, Spidey claimed Glenjo was the best right back in the World. I laughed all over the top of him then too.
[/quote]
I still think that. just because as a team we are all over the fucking place doesn't mean johnson is poor fullback. as for his defensive laspes we have center backs who defend deep, TWO holding midfielders, and right midfielder who thinks he's a defender so you'd think ONE of them would cover the gaps he leaves. lets piss on the fire on one of the few excellent attacking players we actually possess.
[/quote]
Neil, he cant defend.
[/quote]
okay, okay!! its true, but he is ace going forwards and right now I'll take that because right now that makes him numbered amoung a VERY select few in our team
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38706.msg1054992#msg1054992 date=1266315759]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38706.msg1054979#msg1054979 date=1266315206]
About 4 months ago, Spidey claimed Glenjo was the best right back in the World. I laughed all over the top of him then too.
[/quote]
I still think that. just because as a team we are all over the fucking place doesn't mean johnson is poor fullback. as for his defensive laspes we have center backs who defend deep, TWO holding midfielders, and right midfielder who thinks he's a defender so you'd think ONE of them would cover the gaps he leaves. lets piss on the fire on one of the few excellent attacking players we actually possess.
[/quote]
Neil, he cant defend.
[/quote]
okay, okay!! its true, but he is ace going forwards and right now I'll take that because right now that makes him numbered amoung a VERY select few in our team
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38706.msg1054870#msg1054870 date=1266269818]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38706.msg1054839#msg1054839 date=1266261633]
At least Degan seems to put some effort in, he is not as bad as we have made out.
Anyways back to the point, I think Rafa's plan will be to bring in a right back and play Johnson on the right wing.
I think Rafa is probably like us, pleased with his forward play , but perhaps a little disapointed with his defensive qualities.
Now as to if that is a priority I don't know, but it's an idea I am not against
regards
[/quote]
I'd be very surprised if that's his plan Vlad.
All Johnson needs at right-back is games, and the experience of playing alongside Carragher and others for a period of time. It might take a year or so, but eventually he'll mould into a solid defdnder. He's got the ability and attributes, he just lacks defensive nous and experience. Ashley Cole and Evra were the same once upon a time.
[/quote]
I'm not convinced. The fact is, Jonhson has had plenty of time (years, in fact) playing alongside quality, experienced defenders (at Chelsea, and even at Portsmouth), and the same frailties remain. There's really no reason to assume that a season or so playing alongside Carra will magically transform him. It might, but I don't share your confidence.
He strikes me as a player who suffers chronic lapses in concentration. Like a Richard Dunne, a David James, and increasingly, a Martin Skrtel. Fundamentally good players, yet never far away from their next howler. As you say, it's errors in judgement rather than physical ability, but I don't think it's gonna disappear any time soon.
And both Ashley Cole and Evra showed marked improvements in their defending year on year. The same cannot be said for Johnson. In the last five years his defending has improved only marginally from catastrophic to just 'bad'. It may improve to an acceptable level, but I don't think he'll ever be recognized as a solid defender. I certainly think we missed Arbeloa's defensive solidarity in the early stages of the season.
Of course, it's all about balance. It obviously hasn't helped that we've had to rely on Insua this season as well. Weaknesses on both sides of the defence have asked too much of our central defenders and we've been exposed far too many times. I don't think there would have been the same problems (or at least not to the same extent) if Riise was still here. As much stick as he took for the hoofing, he was a solid, consistent defender. I also don't think you can underestimate the value of having two fullbacks who can mark up and head the ball (I do believe Johnson can improve in this respect). We had that in Riise and Arbeloa.
However, if we can get a solid left back in (or Insua improves to an acceptable level) and can significantly improve our quality in possession (with more technically gifted players), then I think he can be a real asset for us. He's brilliant going forward, and in a team whose primary concern is scoring goals, I think his occasional defensive mistakes will be offset by his attacking contributions. My only worry under Rafa is that in an attempt to improve his defending, he becomes overly cautious (which we have seen signs of), and refrains from doing what he does best.
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38706.msg1054839#msg1054839 date=1266261633]
At least Degan seems to put some effort in, he is not as bad as we have made out.
Anyways back to the point, I think Rafa's plan will be to bring in a right back and play Johnson on the right wing.
I think Rafa is probably like us, pleased with his forward play , but perhaps a little disapointed with his defensive qualities.
Now as to if that is a priority I don't know, but it's an idea I am not against
regards
[/quote]
I'd be very surprised if that's his plan Vlad.
All Johnson needs at right-back is games, and the experience of playing alongside Carragher and others for a period of time. It might take a year or so, but eventually he'll mould into a solid defdnder. He's got the ability and attributes, he just lacks defensive nous and experience. Ashley Cole and Evra were the same once upon a time.
[/quote]
I'm not convinced. The fact is, Jonhson has had plenty of time (years, in fact) playing alongside quality, experienced defenders (at Chelsea, and even at Portsmouth), and the same frailties remain. There's really no reason to assume that a season or so playing alongside Carra will magically transform him. It might, but I don't share your confidence.
He strikes me as a player who suffers chronic lapses in concentration. Like a Richard Dunne, a David James, and increasingly, a Martin Skrtel. Fundamentally good players, yet never far away from their next howler. As you say, it's errors in judgement rather than physical ability, but I don't think it's gonna disappear any time soon.
And both Ashley Cole and Evra showed marked improvements in their defending year on year. The same cannot be said for Johnson. In the last five years his defending has improved only marginally from catastrophic to just 'bad'. It may improve to an acceptable level, but I don't think he'll ever be recognized as a solid defender. I certainly think we missed Arbeloa's defensive solidarity in the early stages of the season.
Of course, it's all about balance. It obviously hasn't helped that we've had to rely on Insua this season as well. Weaknesses on both sides of the defence have asked too much of our central defenders and we've been exposed far too many times. I don't think there would have been the same problems (or at least not to the same extent) if Riise was still here. As much stick as he took for the hoofing, he was a solid, consistent defender. I also don't think you can underestimate the value of having two fullbacks who can mark up and head the ball (I do believe Johnson can improve in this respect). We had that in Riise and Arbeloa.
However, if we can get a solid left back in (or Insua improves to an acceptable level) and can significantly improve our quality in possession (with more technically gifted players), then I think he can be a real asset for us. He's brilliant going forward, and in a team whose primary concern is scoring goals, I think his occasional defensive mistakes will be offset by his attacking contributions. My only worry under Rafa is that in an attempt to improve his defending, he becomes overly cautious (which we have seen signs of), and refrains from doing what he does best.
Good post Del... i agree.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38706.msg1054870#msg1054870 date=1266269818]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38706.msg1054839#msg1054839 date=1266261633]
At least Degan seems to put some effort in, he is not as bad as we have made out.
Anyways back to the point, I think Rafa's plan will be to bring in a right back and play Johnson on the right wing.
I think Rafa is probably like us, pleased with his forward play , but perhaps a little disapointed with his defensive qualities.
Now as to if that is a priority I don't know, but it's an idea I am not against
regards
[/quote]
I'd be very surprised if that's his plan Vlad.
All Johnson needs at right-back is games, and the experience of playing alongside Carragher and others for a period of time. It might take a year or so, but eventually he'll mould into a solid defdnder. He's got the ability and attributes, he just lacks defensive nous and experience. Ashley Cole and Evra were the same once upon a time.
[/quote]
From my perspective , I would say the same about his forward play...... if given the games there he could turn into an inspired right side option.
I am not saying he isn't a good full back, I think he is as good at defending as Arbeloa was for us to be honest, I just think his talents may lie elsewhere.
regards
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38706.msg1054839#msg1054839 date=1266261633]
At least Degan seems to put some effort in, he is not as bad as we have made out.
Anyways back to the point, I think Rafa's plan will be to bring in a right back and play Johnson on the right wing.
I think Rafa is probably like us, pleased with his forward play , but perhaps a little disapointed with his defensive qualities.
Now as to if that is a priority I don't know, but it's an idea I am not against
regards
[/quote]
I'd be very surprised if that's his plan Vlad.
All Johnson needs at right-back is games, and the experience of playing alongside Carragher and others for a period of time. It might take a year or so, but eventually he'll mould into a solid defdnder. He's got the ability and attributes, he just lacks defensive nous and experience. Ashley Cole and Evra were the same once upon a time.
[/quote]
From my perspective , I would say the same about his forward play...... if given the games there he could turn into an inspired right side option.
I am not saying he isn't a good full back, I think he is as good at defending as Arbeloa was for us to be honest, I just think his talents may lie elsewhere.
regards
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38706.msg1055062#msg1055062 date=1266325459]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38706.msg1054870#msg1054870 date=1266269818]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38706.msg1054839#msg1054839 date=1266261633]
At least Degan seems to put some effort in, he is not as bad as we have made out.
Anyways back to the point, I think Rafa's plan will be to bring in a right back and play Johnson on the right wing.
I think Rafa is probably like us, pleased with his forward play , but perhaps a little disapointed with his defensive qualities.
Now as to if that is a priority I don't know, but it's an idea I am not against
regards
[/quote]
I'd be very surprised if that's his plan Vlad.
All Johnson needs at right-back is games, and the experience of playing alongside Carragher and others for a period of time. It might take a year or so, but eventually he'll mould into a solid defdnder. He's got the ability and attributes, he just lacks defensive nous and experience. Ashley Cole and Evra were the same once upon a time.
[/quote]
From my perspective , I would say the same about his forward play...... if given the games there he could turn into an inspired right side option.
I am not saying he isn't a good full back, I think he is as good at defending as Arbeloa was for us to be honest, I just think his talents may lie elsewhere.
regards
[/quote]
don't you think the balance of johnson and kuyt is a good one i.e. a fullback who loves to get forwards and right midfielder who tirelessly tracks back and cuts inside more often than not?
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38706.msg1054870#msg1054870 date=1266269818]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38706.msg1054839#msg1054839 date=1266261633]
At least Degan seems to put some effort in, he is not as bad as we have made out.
Anyways back to the point, I think Rafa's plan will be to bring in a right back and play Johnson on the right wing.
I think Rafa is probably like us, pleased with his forward play , but perhaps a little disapointed with his defensive qualities.
Now as to if that is a priority I don't know, but it's an idea I am not against
regards
[/quote]
I'd be very surprised if that's his plan Vlad.
All Johnson needs at right-back is games, and the experience of playing alongside Carragher and others for a period of time. It might take a year or so, but eventually he'll mould into a solid defdnder. He's got the ability and attributes, he just lacks defensive nous and experience. Ashley Cole and Evra were the same once upon a time.
[/quote]
From my perspective , I would say the same about his forward play...... if given the games there he could turn into an inspired right side option.
I am not saying he isn't a good full back, I think he is as good at defending as Arbeloa was for us to be honest, I just think his talents may lie elsewhere.
regards
[/quote]
don't you think the balance of johnson and kuyt is a good one i.e. a fullback who loves to get forwards and right midfielder who tirelessly tracks back and cuts inside more often than not?
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38706.msg1055074#msg1055074 date=1266328421]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38706.msg1055062#msg1055062 date=1266325459]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38706.msg1054870#msg1054870 date=1266269818]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38706.msg1054839#msg1054839 date=1266261633]
At least Degan seems to put some effort in, he is not as bad as we have made out.
Anyways back to the point, I think Rafa's plan will be to bring in a right back and play Johnson on the right wing.
I think Rafa is probably like us, pleased with his forward play , but perhaps a little disapointed with his defensive qualities.
Now as to if that is a priority I don't know, but it's an idea I am not against
regards
[/quote]
I'd be very surprised if that's his plan Vlad.
All Johnson needs at right-back is games, and the experience of playing alongside Carragher and others for a period of time. It might take a year or so, but eventually he'll mould into a solid defdnder. He's got the ability and attributes, he just lacks defensive nous and experience. Ashley Cole and Evra were the same once upon a time.
[/quote]
From my perspective , I would say the same about his forward play...... if given the games there he could turn into an inspired right side option.
I am not saying he isn't a good full back, I think he is as good at defending as Arbeloa was for us to be honest, I just think his talents may lie elsewhere.
regards
[/quote]
don't you think the balance of johnson and kuyt is a good one i.e. a fullback who loves to get forwards and right midfielder who tirelessly tracks back and cuts inside more often than not?
[/quote]
No I think we are accommodating Kuyt there because he works hard and everyone likes him as he is not a first choice forward either
regards
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38706.msg1055062#msg1055062 date=1266325459]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38706.msg1054870#msg1054870 date=1266269818]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38706.msg1054839#msg1054839 date=1266261633]
At least Degan seems to put some effort in, he is not as bad as we have made out.
Anyways back to the point, I think Rafa's plan will be to bring in a right back and play Johnson on the right wing.
I think Rafa is probably like us, pleased with his forward play , but perhaps a little disapointed with his defensive qualities.
Now as to if that is a priority I don't know, but it's an idea I am not against
regards
[/quote]
I'd be very surprised if that's his plan Vlad.
All Johnson needs at right-back is games, and the experience of playing alongside Carragher and others for a period of time. It might take a year or so, but eventually he'll mould into a solid defdnder. He's got the ability and attributes, he just lacks defensive nous and experience. Ashley Cole and Evra were the same once upon a time.
[/quote]
From my perspective , I would say the same about his forward play...... if given the games there he could turn into an inspired right side option.
I am not saying he isn't a good full back, I think he is as good at defending as Arbeloa was for us to be honest, I just think his talents may lie elsewhere.
regards
[/quote]
don't you think the balance of johnson and kuyt is a good one i.e. a fullback who loves to get forwards and right midfielder who tirelessly tracks back and cuts inside more often than not?
[/quote]
No I think we are accommodating Kuyt there because he works hard and everyone likes him as he is not a first choice forward either
regards
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