RB - a priority in January?

[rurikbird]

I think it is. Kelly seemed to be Rodgers' first choice at RB - he is gone for most of the season.

Enrique is now a front 3 player and looks much better at that position (btw, in Germany there is another Spanish full-back with an almost identical story - Gonzalo Castro at Bayer, who was always considered a very good attacking full-back, but a defensive liability. Hyypia who is in charge of Bayer at the moment has decided to move him all the way to the front 3 - and it's working beautifully. Castro is flourishing as a striker and Bayer are in 2nd place).

Downing plays at LB like I predicted, but unfortunately he is just as shit at this position as any other position. He's a goner.

Flanno and Robinson have not stepped up so far.

So that leaves us with Johnson and Wisdom as only competent full-backs in the team. Wisdom is essentially a CB playing at RB and Johnson for some weird reason looks defensively more solid on the left. That's why I say RB is the position we should be looking to fill - but if we find a suitable LB that's ok too I guess.

I think this should not be too hard a position to fill. We already have a good attack-minded full-back in Johnson, so on the other flank we need just a solid defensive player, someone like Arbeloa. We don't need to spend big bucks on this, but I do think RB is the biggest priority in the January window, along with a striker.

 

[gkmacca]

I can't say I agree. Johnson is very good, Wisdom has shown he can fill-in there remarkably well given his age and Flanno wouldn't let anyone down if there was an emergency. Kelly will be back next season and then there won't be much need for an extra RB with the excellent prospect McLaughlin pushing on. There won't be much money in January and we surely need most of what's available to get a proper striker.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Right back definitely isn't the priority in January. We have Johnson and Wisdom to cover.

 

[rurikbird]

So if it's Johnson and Wisdom on the right, who is on the left?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Errrr.....Enrique?

 

[rurikbird]

I think Rodgers doesn't rate him as a defender at all.

 

[Mors]

Scoring goals, and creating goals at the moment are our main problem. Wisdom is cover, and then out of place players. So no, it can wait until the summer.

 

[Squiggles]

Nah, we can assess the situation in the summer. The team needs strikers and goals.

 

[StevieM]

Sure - RB is a priority, but only if we sort out the super-priority, the mega-priority, the pressing-priority and the absolute-priority.

Only then can we start fannying about with our common or garden variety priorities.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I think Rodgers doesn't rate him as a defender at all.

Neither do I but there's still more important positions to strengthen.

 

[gkmacca]

Robinson's a classy young player who deserves to be supported IMHO. Then there's Brad Smith who ought to progress if he stays clear of injury now. The supposed aim of FSG is to ensure that the chances of such young players aren't blocked by new signings, so I don't see much justification for bringing someone else in. I mean, are there cheapish experienced LBs available? I don't see many potential candidates, and none that are that exciting. Ged and Rafa were repeatedly bringing in mediocre players who didn't establish themselves and then clogged up the squad. Let's stick with home-grown youth as much as possible. No more Degens or Dossenas.

 

[rurikbird]

OK, I can see where the popular consensus is 🙂

However, that doesn't change my opinion. I think the full-back position is almost as woefully thin as the striker position and any injury to Johnson can be almost as devastating as an injury to Suarez.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I agree with GK, we have two decent full backs with two promising youngsters backing them up. FSG aren't going to be splashing the cash so giving the kids a go looks like the way forward.

 

[gkmacca]

OK, I can see where the popular consensus is 🙂

However, that doesn't change my opinion. I think the full-back position is almost as woefully thin as the striker position and any injury to Johnson can be almost as devastating as an injury to Suarez.

Have you seen much of McLaughlin, mate? I think he's going to be terrific at RB and he's already playing at international level, albeit for Norn Iron.

 

[Hansern]

Robinson has been good for the reserves this season, and deserves a chance if Enrique gets injured.

Wisdom and GlenJo are more than good enough. We have Kelly getting back from injury, and Flanno as back up.
Add the great talent of McLaughlin and we're well covered.

Lets spend our money on attacking players.

 

[rurikbird]

I think we need an experienced player who is good at defending. Somebody you can bring on in a pressure situation, such as defending a 1:0 lead away from home. Kids are not good for that. We need someone like Paolo Ferreira or a younger Carragher. You don't have to spend much for a player like that. But I feel that's one of the things our defense is missing - a calm presence who might be slow and unspectacular, but has the ability to make right decisions under pressure. And our shortcomings in attack should not blind us to problems in other areas. It's both, not either or.

 

[gkmacca]

I think we need an experienced player who is good at defending. Somebody you can bring on in a pressure situation, such as defending a 1:0 lead away from home. Kids are not good for that.

Well, some kids are. Carra always was, and he could be working with these kids now. And isn't that what coaching is for? Surely that is better than going out and finding some experienced player, maybe slightly past his best, who won't even play that much? Rodgers has a way of playing from the back that could well wreck an experienced defender who isn't used to that style, whereas the younger players are already getting used to it.

 

[Delinquent]

I can't say I agree. Johnson is very good, Wisdom has shown he can fill-in there remarkably well given his age and Flanno wouldn't let anyone down if there was an emergency. Kelly will be back next season and then there won't be much need for an extra RB with the excellent prospect McLaughlin pushing on. There won't be much money in January and we surely need most of what's available to get a proper striker.

Absolutely. Bit of a strange post given our obvious weaknesses in other areas.

 

[Mors]

OK, I can see where the popular consensus is 🙂

However, that doesn't change my opinion. I think the full-back position is almost as woefully thin as the striker position and any injury to Johnson can be almost as devastating as an injury to Suarez.

Wisdom comes in?

 

[mark1975]

I really like Robinson, he's a good player. Flanno, apart from that God awful spell last season has also done really well when called upon. We have Kelly who's made of glass and as said, Wisdom has done quite well there, though I wouldn't want to rely on him for too long as he looks more of a centre back and gets caught a bit flat footed too much.

I do think we have options, in the longterm we may need to invest in a fullback, but overall it's not that pressing an issue. I don't think the defense as a whole is quite up there with what we've had in recent years, but it's hardly catastrophic either and we have reasonably good strength in depth.

Johnson still has one too many sleepy moments (I thought that tonight too, especially in the first half, most moves came down his side again), but his attacking instincts are a major asset for us to have. Enrique is good enough to cover the left back position and play further forward when Rodgers opts to switch Johnson to the left - their versatility in that respect is brilliant.

 

[Ryan]

I'd say the opposite side is more of a priority. We haven't had a great and reliable left-back since Paul Konchesky really.

 

[gkmacca]

in the longterm we may need to invest in a fullback, .

In the long term I don't think we do, Mark. We've got some great prospects who are being schooled in Rodgers' preferred style and I'm really confident they'll be able to graduate to the first team in due course. I think the only case to be made is for an interim period when experience might be helpful, but I doubt that argument, too. Obviously if a genuinely classy and competent player became available at the right price then it would be an option, but that seems unlikely. I'd rather bring on the youth, take the odd cock-up as part of the process (Hansen sometimes made some shocking decisions when he first came into the team but you could see he had enough class to tolerate all of that) and stick to the right principles.

 

[rurikbird]

Also, I can see that Rodgers is aware of this problem. That's why he would bring on Carra at every opportunity, especially late in games. The problem with Carra is that he is just too immobile to play anywhere other than CB, so then he can only replace one of our CBs, who are already among our most experienced and better players, or to switch to 3 at the back at the expense on an attacking player. It would have been much better if a player of Carra's qualities could replace one of the full-backs. Even Barca under Pep almost always had one "stay-at-home", experienced full back on the pitch - Pujol or Abidal. You have to ask yourself why a club that so well-known for the trust it places in its young players and the quality and depth of its academy doesn't trust the kids in this case. Or why players like Ferreira are so valued by top coaches even though fans usually don't see much value in them.

That's also why I think Rodgers is relying so heavily on Wisdom, who is probably not the most talented of our crop of young full-backs, but, appropriately for his name, is the most wise and calm under pressure. Why Rodgers, who places outmost value in passing ability and possession, makes a starter out of a youngster who can only make the safest of passes? Because he feels the overall balance of the team will tip over if we don't have at least 3 trustworthy defenders on the pitch.

Sure, Enrique could "do a job," if by "job" you mean dribbling and giving the ball away in his own penalty area. Rodgers has seen enough of that and doesn't want to see it again.

So how many trustworthy fullbacks do we have in the team right now? Johnson, who is OK for an attacking fullback, but has and always will have his defensive issues. And a 19-old Wisdom who is an unusually mature for his age, but still lacking in experience, not to mention pace. That's it. This is woefully inadequate for a team hoping ti fight for a top-4 place in England.

 

[rurikbird]

In the long term I don't think we do, Mark. We've got some great prospects who are being schooled in Rodgers' preferred style and I'm really confident they'll be able to graduate to the first team in due course. I think the only case to be made is for an interim period when experience might be helpful, but I doubt that argument, too. Obviously if a genuinely classy and competent player became available at the right price then it would be an option, but that seems unlikely. I'd rather bring on the youth, take the odd cock-up as part of the process (Hansen sometimes made some shocking decisions when he first came into the team but you could see he had enough class to tolerate all of that) and stick to the right principles.

I agree. I think we have a short-term need, not necessarily a long-term one. Let's see how this McLaughlin lad progresses.

 

[mark1975]

In the long term I don't think we do, Mark. We've got some great prospects who are being schooled in Rodgers' preferred style and I'm really confident they'll be able to graduate to the first team in due course. I think the only case to be made is for an interim period when experience might be helpful, but I doubt that argument, too. Obviously if a genuinely classy and competent player became available at the right price then it would be an option, but that seems unlikely. I'd rather bring on the youth, take the odd cock-up as part of the process (Hansen sometimes made some shocking decisions when he first came into the team but you could see he had enough class to tolerate all of that) and stick to the right principles.

I agree Macca, I was just saying we 'may' do in the longterm, but as it is we have enough to be encouraged to persevere with.

 

[Ryan]

Also, I can see that Rodgers is aware of this problem. That's why he bring on Carra at every opportunity, especially late in games. The problem with Carra is that he is just too immobile to play anywhere other than CB, so then he can only replace one of our CBs, who are already among our most experienced and better players, or to switch to 3 at the back at the expense on an attacking player. It would have been much better if a player of Carra's qualities could replace one of the full-backs. Even Barca under Pep almost always had one "stay-at-home", experienced full back on the pitch - Pujol or Abidal. You have to ask yourself why a club that so well-known for the trust it places in its young players and the quality and depth of its academy doesn't trust the kids in this case. Or why players like Ferreira are so valued by top coaches even though fans usually don't see much value in them.

That's also why I think Rodgers is relying so heavily on Wisdom, who is probably not the most talented of our young full-backs, but, appropriately for his name, is the most wise and calm under pressure. Why Rodgers, who places outmost value in passing ability and possession, makes a starter out of a youngster who can only make the safest of passes? Because he feels the overall balance of the team will tip over if we don't have at least 3 trustworthy defenders on the pitch. Sure, Enrique could "do a job," if by "job" you mean dribbling and giving the ball away in his own penalty area. Rodgers has seen enough of that and doesn't want to see it again.

So how many trustworthy fullbacks do we have in the team right now? Johnson, who is OK for an attacking fullback, but has and always will have his defensive issues. And a 19-old Wisdom who is an unusually mature for his age, but still lacking in experience, not to mention pace. That's it. This is woefully inadequate for a team hoping for a top-4 place in England.

Interestingly Rurik, Rodgers had fairly average full-backs at Swansea. It was the only real glaring weakness in his rather-impressive Swansea side over the last 2 years. I think it was a mixture of not being able to afford decent ones, plus the quality he seemed to have in the wide areas (Sturridge, Dyer, Routledge to a point, etc) in front of them meaning they weren’t as critical. Plus he spent the majority of his time getting the midfield triumvirate of Britton, Allen, Sigurdsson controlling games anyway – not dissimilar to what he’s trying to do with us I guess.


So, anyway – I don’t think he see’s the full-back things as an immediate priority. We’re working better (of late anyway) as an attacking unit without quality full-backs, so he’ll probably make do with what he’s got for the time being. My guess is that he’d buy (if he has/had the money of course) 4 or 5 players for other positions long before he’d worry about full-backs.

I might be wrong though.

 

[rurikbird]

Interestingly Rurik, Rodgers had fairly average full-backs at Swansea. It was the only real glaring weakness in his rather-impressive Swansea side over the last 2 years. I think it was a mixture of not being able to afford decent ones, plus the quality he seemed to have in the wide areas (Sturridge, Dyer, Routledge to a point, etc) in front of them meaning they weren’t as critical. Plus he spent the majority of his time getting the midfield triumvirate of Britton, Allen, Sigurdsson controlling games anyway – not dissimilar to what he’s trying to do with us I guess.


So, anyway – I don’t think he see’s the full-back things as an immediate priority. We’re working better (of late anyway) as an attacking unit without quality full-backs, so he’ll probably make do with what he’s got for the time being. My guess is that he’d buy (if he has/had the money of course) 4 or 5 players for other positions long before he’d worry about full-backs.

I might be wrong though.

I think you are wrong - as are all of you 🙂. But maybe Rodgers will prove me wrong this January and not attempt to sign any fullbacks. January is around the corner and we will find out what Rodgers is thinking about his squad pretty soon.

 

[Mors]

Interestingly Rurik, Rodgers had fairly average full-backs at Swansea. It was the only real glaring weakness in his rather-impressive Swansea side over the last 2 years. I think it was a mixture of not being able to afford decent ones, plus the quality he seemed to have in the wide areas (Sturridge, Dyer, Routledge to a point, etc) in front of them meaning they weren’t as critical. Plus he spent the majority of his time getting the midfield triumvirate of Britton, Allen, Sigurdsson controlling games anyway – not dissimilar to what he’s trying to do with us I guess.


So, anyway – I don’t think he see’s the full-back things as an immediate priority. We’re working better (of late anyway) as an attacking unit without quality full-backs, so he’ll probably make do with what he’s got for the time being. My guess is that he’d buy (if he has/had the money of course) 4 or 5 players for other positions long before he’d worry about full-backs.

I might be wrong though.

Sturridge played for Swansea? wtf. Shows how much I watched Swansea then.

 

[Gary25]

Left back is more of a priority.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I think you are wrong - as are all of you 🙂. But maybe Rodgers will prove me wrong this January and not attempt to sign any fullbacks. January is around the corner and we will find out what Rodgers is thinking about his squad pretty soon.

I think in January we will find out what FSG are thinking rather than Rodgers.