Rafa should learn from Wenger

[Dreambeliever]

Apparently he went nuts at half time and told his players they didn't deserve to wear the club shirt or to play for Arsenal if they played like that in the 2nd half.

Sometimes I wish Rafa would show a bit of emotion.

 

[the count]

Mmmmmmmmm.

I think the turn around in the Gooners fortunes in the second half has as much to do with Mashers injury (he was totally dominant of Arsenal's midfield up to past the half hour mark at which point he was injured) as it had to Wenger's tantrums or tactical nous.

 

[keniget]

I think everyone would be like to see Rafa show a little more passion at times but I wouldn't hold this up as an example of why Rafa should learn from Wenger.

Arsenal were dog shit in the first half.. they were always going to improve in the 2nd.. and they were still pretty shit. It's just that we took our foot off the gas and then served them up two goals in a silver platter.

Wenger will be thanking his stars we rolled over in the second half rather than patting himself on the back for good management skills.

 

[Ryan]

Apparently Rafa's won a Champions League, something Wenger has not.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=37909.msg1014237#msg1014237 date=1260829471]
I think everyone would be like to see Rafa show a little more passion at times but I wouldn't hold this up as an example of why Rafa should learn from Wenger.

Arsenal were dog shit in the first half.. they were always going to improve in the 2nd.. and they were still pretty shit. It's just that we took our foot off the gas and then served them up two goals in a silver platter.

Wenger will be thanking his stars we rolled over in the second half rather than patting himself on the back for good management skills.
[/quote]

Was just reading an interview from Cesc. Thought it was interesting. Didn't think Wenger screamed in the dressing room that much.

 

[FoxForceFive]

What's the difference between what they've achieved since the 2004/05 season & what we've achieved??

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=37909.msg1014245#msg1014245 date=1260830581]
What's the difference between what they've achieved since the 2004/05 season & what we've achieved??
[/quote]

We won an FA Cup, did better in the league, and crucially, they built a stadium.

 

[Niall K]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37909.msg1014238#msg1014238 date=1260829553]
Apparently Rafa's won a Champions League, something Wenger has not.
[/quote] I think you know the reply to that.

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37909.msg1014247#msg1014247 date=1260830670]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=37909.msg1014245#msg1014245 date=1260830581]
What's the difference between what they've achieved since the 2004/05 season & what we've achieved??
[/quote]

We won an FA Cup, did better in the league, and crucially, they built a stadium.
[/quote]

Our achievements were down to the manager, theirs down to the board.

Therefore Rafa learning from Wenger seems moot.

 

[Squiggles]

Benitez can learn from anyone who's lifted a Premier League title.

Or in this case: 3.

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=37909.msg1014250#msg1014250 date=1260830834]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37909.msg1014247#msg1014247 date=1260830670]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=37909.msg1014245#msg1014245 date=1260830581]
What's the difference between what they've achieved since the 2004/05 season & what we've achieved??
[/quote]

We won an FA Cup, did better in the league, and crucially, they built a stadium.
[/quote]

Our achievements were down to the manager, theirs down to the board.

Therefore Rafa learning from Wenger seems moot.
[/quote]

I disagree. Wenger has allowed them to pay for the stadium by keeping them where they need to be, while spending no money on transfers. They come out the other end with increased revenues and more purchasing power.

This is Rafa's first season in a similar situation (though it isn't for a long term goal, but for short term debt) and thus far, he hasn't seemed anywhere near as astute.

 

[keniget]

Perhaps, but it's worth bearing in mind that Wenger had a number of years to plan for the tightening of the purse strings. I'm not so sure Rafa was forewarned that early.

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=37909.msg1014259#msg1014259 date=1260832378]
Perhaps, but it's worth bearing in mind that Wenger had a number of years to plan for the tightening of the purse strings. I'm not so sure Rafa was forewarned that early.
[/quote]

Yea, there are lots of differences of course, but any manager in the world could learn from Wenger in terms of scouting, and also in terms of training a unified system of play that allows youth to bed in well.

Wenger has some serious blind spots as well, but the idea that you couldn't learn from him just isn't correct.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37909.msg1014264#msg1014264 date=1260832571]any manager in the world could learn from Wenger in terms of scouting, and also in terms of training a unified system of play that allows youth to bed in well.
[/quote]

I don't think anyone can disagree with that. Wenger has done exceptionally well in that respect.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=37909.msg1014250#msg1014250 date=1260830834]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37909.msg1014247#msg1014247 date=1260830670]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=37909.msg1014245#msg1014245 date=1260830581]
What's the difference between what they've achieved since the 2004/05 season & what we've achieved??
[/quote]

We won an FA Cup, did better in the league, and crucially, they built a stadium.
[/quote]

Our achievements were down to the manager, theirs down to the board.

Therefore Rafa learning from Wenger seems moot.
[/quote]


the correct use of the word 'moot' at last 🙂

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37909.msg1014238#msg1014238 date=1260829553]
Apparently Rafa's won a Champions League, something Wenger has not.
[/quote]

Hmm and how many league titles has Wenger?

My point was that they are very similar in terms of them keeping cool in the dressing room. But sometimes you need to show a bit of emotion to get a response from your team.

The players are only human and maybe Rafa getting angry for once might spur them on.

Nothing else seems to be working at the moment.

 

[El Pistolero]

To be fair rafa and wengers records are very similar

Wenger

3 Premier leauge titles and 1 French Leauge title

Rafa

2 La Ligas 1 Euro cup 1 UEFA cup.

For all wengers qualitys he has never been able to conquer Europe at any level. They have both won major leauge titles. So i really don't think Benitez has got much to learn. They also have both been shite for the last 4 years.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=37909.msg1014245#msg1014245 date=1260830581]
What's the difference between what they've achieved since the 2004/05 season & what we've achieved??
[/quote]

An Fa cup on the pitch, a young team that look like they could become a massive force over the next 5/6 years and more on the way, while our team and youth set up looks anything but.

Crucially as well they have a stadium that is making a shed load of money sadly.

 

[El Pistolero]

As for getting emotional in the dressing room, he does have words but when the players don't have a clue tactically what to do when they get on the pitch it still won't work.

Rafa Benitez needs to have a plan B if Plan A doesn't work but unfortunatly he doesn't. I just believe we have now become to prdictable, and Benitez simply does not have the nous of how to change our approach.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=37909.msg1014250#msg1014250 date=1260830834]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37909.msg1014247#msg1014247 date=1260830670]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=37909.msg1014245#msg1014245 date=1260830581]
What's the difference between what they've achieved since the 2004/05 season & what we've achieved??
[/quote]

We won an FA Cup, did better in the league, and crucially, they built a stadium.
[/quote]

Our achievements were down to the manager, theirs down to the board.

Therefore Rafa learning from Wenger seems moot.
[/quote]

Was only in reference to sometimes showing some emotion in the dressing room FFF.

I think our team would benefit from that greatly.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37909.msg1014325#msg1014325 date=1260841811]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=37909.msg1014245#msg1014245 date=1260830581]
What's the difference between what they've achieved since the 2004/05 season & what we've achieved??
[/quote]

An Fa cup on the pitch, a young team that look like they could become a massive force over the next 5/6 years and more on the way, while our team and youth set up looks anything but.

Our Youth Team has won more than theirs in recent years.

Crucially as well they have a stadium that is making a shed load of money sadly.

And what's this got to do with Rafa?


[/quote]

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Redshrek link=topic=37909.msg1014324#msg1014324 date=1260841610]
To be fair rafa and wengers records are very similar

Wenger

3 Premier leauge titles and 1 French Leauge title

Rafa

2 La Ligas 1 Euro cup 1 UEFA cup.

For all wengers qualitys he has never been able to conquer Europe at any level. They have both won major leauge titles. So i really don't think Benitez has got much to learn. They also have both been shite for the last 4 years.
[/quote]

Since Liverpool don't play in La Liga, I'd say that Rafa does have a lot to learn actually.

 

[juniormember]

Istanbul, 3-0 down at halftime, six crazy minutes, european champions. Did Rafa just sit there and say nothing during halftime?

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=juniormember link=topic=37909.msg1014362#msg1014362 date=1260856828]
Istanbul, 3-0 down at halftime, six crazy minutes, european champions. Did Rafa just sit there and say nothing during halftime?
[/quote]

I know.

'Rafa should learn to shout at his players more'

Management 1.01.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=juniormember link=topic=37909.msg1014362#msg1014362 date=1260856828]
Istanbul, 3-0 down at halftime, six crazy minutes, european champions. Did Rafa just sit there and say nothing during halftime?
[/quote]

Well Rafa was talking Troare off and wasn't brining Hamann on until Finnan said he was injured so.......

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37909.msg1014323#msg1014323 date=1260841198]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37909.msg1014238#msg1014238 date=1260829553]
Apparently Rafa's won a Champions League, something Wenger has not.
[/quote]

My point was that they are very similar in terms of them keeping cool in the dressing room. But sometimes you need to show a bit of emotion to get a response from your team.
[/quote]What a pile of speculative shite.
I expect you will play off the 'predictable' responses as it being because it's you, or some such other bollocks.
It's a sad state of affairs when every Tom, Dick and Paddy are actively seeking ways to lay the boot into Rafa regardless of the actual evidence.
You have NO idea what Rafa is like in the dressing room, you also don't know what any given player reacts well too, and you furthermore don't know if Wengers hollering is anything to do with the result.
I know I know, I'm just picking on you right? Well no I'm not, but your post is shite Pat. Theres fucking infinite reasons to be unhappy with Rafa, the team, football at the moment without guessing and making shit up.
I heard Rafa shoots Dogs out his bedroom window the cunt!

 

[the count]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37909.msg1014367#msg1014367 date=1260857431]
[quote author=juniormember link=topic=37909.msg1014362#msg1014362 date=1260856828]
Istanbul, 3-0 down at halftime, six crazy minutes, european champions. Did Rafa just sit there and say nothing during halftime?
[/quote]

Well Rafa was talking Troare off and wasn't brining Hamann on until Finnan said he was injured so.......






[/quote]

I think Hamann was coming on or Traore before it was realised that Finnan was carrying an injury.

Besides, by all accounts the players involved have all praised Rafa for the coolness he displayed at halftime, calmly giving out instrustions and encouraging players to believe that a turnaround was possible.

I suppose if the original point you were making related to Rafa showing more a bit more well I suppose that we would all like to think that he would celebrate our goals/wins even just a little bit, but I don't think that he is totally emotionless as he always looks mightily pissed off when things go wrong, a side of him we see all too often these days.

 

[Mamma Mia]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37909.msg1014327#msg1014327 date=1260841892]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=37909.msg1014250#msg1014250 date=1260830834]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37909.msg1014247#msg1014247 date=1260830670]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=37909.msg1014245#msg1014245 date=1260830581]
What's the difference between what they've achieved since the 2004/05 season & what we've achieved??
[/quote]

We won an FA Cup, did better in the league, and crucially, they built a stadium.
[/quote]

Our achievements were down to the manager, theirs down to the board.

Therefore Rafa learning from Wenger seems moot.
[/quote]

Was only in reference to sometimes showing some emotion in the dressing room FFF.

I think our team would benefit from that greatly.
[/quote]

And you know for a fact that it doesn't happen in ours?

Edit: Apologies for quiffing Andy.

 

[Le Chacal]

He has to learn from Capello, Mourinho and Ferguson, not many others.
Both clubs need fresh blood I think.