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Rafa Rafael

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My problem with his bargain basement buying was that he didn't even seem to try to improve them. He was a bit like a kid who needed to buy some toy, any toy, when out, only to bung it in the bin when he got it home and realised it was crap. He'd bring in players, send them out with very specific instructions, and if they didn't do well enough straight off they were already on the way out. I guess Lucas was the one exception - Rafa never gave up on him - but generally his transfer work didn't lead to a bigger squad of genuine first team players, it rather led to loads of 'filler'.
 
juniormember said:
I would imagine Rafa’s net spend was far higher than Klopp’s.
Klopp so far has NOT been backed. He’s been on positive net spend till this summer.
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I think this net spend argument is only really relevant if we are talking about a manager having to sell players he'd rather not. I can't recall anyone being sold under Klopp that he would sooner have had in the squad.

Now, if we'd have signed a CB and Keita this summer and Coutinho had gone, then the net spend argument would hold a lot more weight in my opinion.
 
Modo said:
I agree he did buy some shit. In his defence he was desperately trying to make the squad bigger with a small budget. At our best we almost had a world class XI with semi good squad players. Do you think he would have done the same if he was backed financially?
Also, some of those bargains worked out. Off the top of my head, Alonso for 10 mill, Garcia, Arbeloa, Agger, Skrtel.
Yeah he bought Johnson but remember that he originally wanted to sign Danny Alves. He wanted Jovetic, he wanted David Villa, Javi Martinez etc. Man if he was allowed to build like Mourinho for instance we could have had a dynasty by now.
Instead he was forced to fill 5 positions with like 20 mill, net spend.
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Nah, he chose to divide up his money like that and quite often he would repeat the process the following summer because the previous lot were crap.

Ultimately it's what finished him. A real shame.
 
Ah the RCDNW and the RCDNR debate comes back to life.

It’s like the great SCM war of NET vs GROSS spend that ended but every now and again rears it’s ugly head.
 
Bill Shankly arrived as manager and I became a supporter at much the same time. That's how long I've been a Red, and Istanbul was the single greatest experience of that whole half-century plus. Rafa's legacy is mixed, but for Istanbul (and, as macca says, the campaign leading up to it) his record will always be in credit AFAIC.
 
Judge Jules said:
Bill Shankly arrived as manager and I became a supporter at much the same time. That's how long I've been a Red, and Istanbul was the single greatest experience of that whole half-century plus. Rafa's legacy is mixed, but for Istanbul alone his record will always be in credit AFAIC.
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Quite. I think it's alot of what Portly said. It was the combination of the manner of the win in the final, that made it such a memorable and historic game, possibly THE best European Cup final. Not only that, but the way we made it to the final too, we had some pretty tough draws in both campaigns under Rafa - Barca, Juve, Leverkusen, Deportivo and not forgetting, Milan twice. The fact he did that with vastly inferior squads, makes it such an even more incredible achievement.

It's a perverse irony that as he added some brilliant quality to the team and he assembled a really good first XI who could match anyone, he failed to actually achieve anything with it.
 
Rafa, the man who made us all take Champions League qualification for granted, and making the semi finals as an entitlement.

The man who made Liverpool FC great again after 15 years of being mostly muppets.

After 7 years in the darkness, there's barely a fan here who wouldn't want the success of his era back again.

The incessant OTT critics of his era should never have their posts liked again. Long live the Rafatollah and that Six Crazy Minutes Years

406652252_2f9a8b935d_b.jpg
 
Rafa was a LEG. Can't say anything bad about the man that made us Number 1 in europe and made me feel confident going to Barcelona and Real Madrid and getting a result. Teams FEARED us. I mean fuck me we went to Juventus with Gerrard suspended and Hyypia had Ibra in his pocket. Klopp has a lot to do to even start to be compared to Rafa.
 
If Klopp for some reason gets sacked. There's only one manager in the world I'd want and it's Rafa. Not saying he's the only one who can do a good job, I'm saying it's the safe choice. Back him and you get trophies.
 
Glen C said:
Rafa was a LEG. Can't say anything bad about the man that made us Number 1 in europe and made me feel confident going to Barcelona and Real Madrid and getting a result. Teams FEARED us. I mean fuck me we went to Juventus with Gerrard suspended and Hyypia had Ibra in his pocket. Klopp has a lot to do to even start to be compared to Rafa.
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Fuck me, we beat Juventus at home with Carson, LeTallec, Traore and Biscan in the starting line up.
Liverpool: Carson, Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia, Traore, Luis Garcia, Gerrard, Biscan, Riise, Le Tallec (Smicer 73), Baros
 
Modo said:
If Klopp for some reason gets sacked. There's only one manager in the world I'd want and it's Rafa. Not saying he's the only one who can do a good job, I'm saying it's the safe choice. Back him and you get trophies.
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He gets sacked quite a bit and is currently at Newcastle. Not many people share your view, seemingly. People that matter at clubs, or people at clubs that matter, anyway.
 
I remember Rafa fondly for many reasons, not just for Istanbul.
1 - Tactically he was the best manager I remember as a Liverpool fan. I was too young to appeciate Shankly and Paisley in the same way though they must have been pretty good too. Since Dalglish left the first time no other manager has come close to pulling results out of the bag when you least expected.
2 - In Europe he made me think we could beat anyone anywhere and a lot of times we did.
3 - His connection with the fans was genuine and I never heard him criticise the fans unlike Klopp who's done it on a few occasions. Little things like sitting down on the touchline during the penalties against chelsea in the Champions League semi final so he wouldn't hinder any fans view of the pitch or the numerous times he donated to Hillsbourough groups.
4 - He was stubborn and hard headed at times (not always correctly) but none of the players were in any doubt who was in charge and for all the criticism of the way he handled the superstar players , he got more out of Gerrard than any other manager either at club or International Level. For me he was the only manager that realised to get the best from Gerrard you had to release him from defensive duties (or not trust him with them). Reina has bever been anywhere near as good for us or anyone else since Rafa left. Torres declined as a player after he left. In a weird way he even got the best out of Alonso by trying to replace him.
5 - After a while he could see Hicks and Gillete for what they were and wasn't prepared to just be a yes man. I respect him for that. To achieve anything under the stewardship of those two was commendable enough.
6 - He had the balls to stand up to Ferguson and the rotten influence he had on the premier league, FA and even other managers. The only sad thing was the team letting him down the day after his rant by drawing with Stoke. The idea that what he said cost us anything that season is lucricrous as we won 10 out of the last 11 games that season but unfortunately for us United were a very good team also and we just couldn't catch them.
7 - Mourinho , Allardyce, Moyes , Ferguson and Pulis all hated him. If that gang of cunts don't like you then that's the biggest seal of approval you could ever get.

I don't know if he'll ever be Liverpool manager again and it may not turn out as well as his first spell in charge but if and when Klopp does go I know I wouldn't be half as excited by getting any other manager in the world. He's one of us and always will be.
 
Modo said:
I agree he did buy some shit. In his defence he was desperately trying to make the squad bigger with a small budget. At our best we almost had a world class XI with semi good squad players. Do you think he would have done the same if he was backed financially?
Also, some of those bargains worked out. Off the top of my head, Alonso for 10 mill, Garcia, Arbeloa, Agger, Skrtel.
Yeah he bought Johnson but remember that he originally wanted to sign Danny Alves. He wanted Jovetic, he wanted David Villa, Javi Martinez etc. Man if he was allowed to build like Mourinho for instance we could have had a dynasty by now.
Instead he was forced to fill 5 positions with like 20 mill, net spend.
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Modo agree with all that...and he is the manager i would turn to if Klopp was removed. I am not surprised he lost the plot...anyone who was given the budget he had and then expect to compete with Chelsea and United would go mental. I hated all that defensive stuff but have to say it was good knowing we were like a brick wall and being kings of europe under him. I hope Klopp will get us back to it.
 
The strategy of buying overhyped players from mediocre clubs hasn't worked too well for us.

Would it be different with a manager ?
 
mark1975 said:
Quite. I think it's alot of what Portly said. It was the combination of the manner of the win in the final, that made it such a memorable and historic game, possibly THE best European Cup final. Not only that, but the way we made it to the final too, we had some pretty tough draws in both campaigns under Rafa - Barca, Juve, Leverkusen, Deportivo and not forgetting, Milan twice. The fact he did that with vastly inferior squads, makes it such an even more incredible achievement.

It's a perverse irony that as he added some brilliant quality to the team and he assembled a really good first XI who could match anyone, he failed to actually achieve anything with it.
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The team we had between 07 and 09 needed another year or two with one or two additions before it could really fulfil it's potential in my view. I need a good cry.
 
It's funny on this forum how Suarez is deemed solely responsible for Rodger's great season but Gerrard ISN'T responsible for Rafa's trophies, despite almost single handedly making Istanbul and West Ham happen.
I like Rafa, and he's a nice guy, but he went mental and I wouldn't want him back.
I also find the Corbyn-like admiration a bit scary, in a Kim Jong-Un kind of way.
 
LarryHagman said:
It's funny on this forum how Suarez is deemed solely responsible for Rodger's great season but Gerrard ISN'T responsible for Rafa's trophies, despite almost single handedly making Istanbul and West Ham happen.
I like Rafa, and he's a nice guy, but he went mental and I wouldn't want him back.
I also find the Corbyn-like admiration a bit scary, in a Kim Jong-Un kind of way.
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I find the Suarez obsession weirder, he couldn't wait to leave the club, Rafa never actually wanted out. And he won things. Not that I want Rafa back but I can understand why he's held in such affection, for alot of younger fans he's responsible for the most successful period of the club they have known.
 
LarryHagman said:
It's funny on this forum how Suarez is deemed solely responsible for Rodger's great season but Gerrard ISN'T responsible for Rafa's trophies, despite almost single handedly making Istanbul and West Ham happen.
I like Rafa, and he's a nice guy, but he went mental and I wouldn't want him back.
I also find the Corbyn-like admiration a bit scary, in a Kim Jong-Un kind of way.
Click to expand...
OK, I blame Gerrard for us losing the league cup final in 2005.
 
LarryHagman said:
It's funny on this forum how Suarez is deemed solely responsible for Rodger's great season but Gerrard ISN'T responsible for Rafa's trophies, despite almost single handedly making Istanbul and West Ham happen.
I like Rafa, and he's a nice guy, but he went mental and I wouldn't want him back.
I also find the Corbyn-like admiration a bit scary, in a Kim Jong-Un kind of way.
Click to expand...
Tory. You fuck pigs don't you? [emoji12]
 
Gerrard won us two trophies single handedly yet some would argue he lost us two too.. Things in life have a habit of balancing themselves out
 
Rafa knew how to get a result over two legs against stronger opposition. He was superb manager to have in Europe and made Anfield beleive..

With our defence the way it is, I'm not sure if Klopp is capable of doing the same.. Time will tell.. January is big month if we don't address our defensive problems in that transfer window, I may as well just give up on football

At the moment I feel like I'm supporting Arsenal..
 
RedNinja said:
Rafa knew how to get a result over two legs against stronger opposition. He was superb manager to have in Europe and made Anfield beleive..

With our defence the way it is, I'm not sure if Klopp is capable of doing the same.. Time will tell.. January is big month if we don't address our defensive problems in that transfer window, I may as well just give up on football

At the moment I feel like I'm supporting Arsenal..
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One thing Rafa could do is teach players. Just look at Lascelles at Newcastle. A nothing player 2 years ago, average CB.
Now captain and looking to get into the national team. Owned us.
There are so many players who went on to bigger and better things when coached by Rafa. Fucking Arbeloa is a world cup winner.
 
RedNinja said:
Gerrard won us two trophies single handedly
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A bit of a mythstake, surely.

In the Champions League Final, the likes of Smicer and Alonso with their goals, Hamman and others with their support, Dudek with his saves all made a bit of a contribution, and as far as I know Gerrard didn't take all of our penalties.

And in the FA Cup final, Cisse also scored, Reina made crucial saves and, again, it was probably helpful that others scored their penalties.
 
gkmacca said:
A bit of a mythstake, surely.

In the Champions League Final, the likes of Smicer and Alonso with their goals, Hamman and others with their support, Dudek with his saves all made a bit of a contribution, and as far as I know Gerrard didn't take all of our penalties.

And in the FA Cup final, Cisse also scored, Reina made crucial saves and, again, it was probably helpful that others scored their penalties.
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Sissoko was probably our MOM in that FA cup final... Oh yeah a DM...
 
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