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Rafa diggin his own grave? Riera / Aquilani situations

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Bernowatson

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Having read the recent articles about the Aquilani injury it would seem that Rafa has become quite outspoken with regards to players within his own squad. Is it me or does this not seem like professional suicide? In any profession a manager criticising his staff in public usually only ends up one way......

What has really fucked me off is the audacity he has to say that when a certain player does something wrong he never plays them again / trys to sell them at the 1st opportunity. What kind of man management is this? It seems pretty selfish most of the time and it really does look like it is becoming in detriment to our club. How many players have revolved through the Anfield front door only to criticise Rafa's ability to keep his playing squad happy. We could see it in season 1 of his tenure with the Cisse situation. There are countless other examples practically every season he has been here.

The one that is puzzling me is this Aquilani situation, it really does seem to be turning into Robbie Keane part 2. Who the fuck buys a player, injured firstly then bigs them up in the press to a point only to then shoot them down in flames regarding his injury record? Its laughable. This is meant to be one of the top managers in European football, yet he sometimes acts as if he is a 12 year old playing Football Manager.

I am not surprised Riera hasnt left. I think the board have asked him to stay behind Rafas back. I also think that Rafa is now having a sly dig at his own players as I think something is going down at Anfield.

I really would not be surprised to see Martin O'Neill in charge next season. Rolling contract, rumours of him quitting...... I might sticka bet on that.
 
the very strong words doing the rounds in the villa quarters, is that O'neill will be manager of Liverpool Next season, and Mark Hughes will be manager of Villa.

I think their is very good chance this will happen.
 
I have also heard a rumour that Milner was being sold..... Nothing concrete just off a crappy website....

I think I might go see what the odds are, its worth a tenner at least.
 
Right from the time Rafa guaranteed 4th earlier in the season, I've had the impression that he recognised this was make or break time for him. I don't agree with the point about criticism from former players (of which there's actually been hardly any) but I do agree that Rafa's thinking is too rigid at times and that that has sometimes cost him, and us, over the years.

As for O'Neill - I for one hope not. For the second season in a row he's had a decent Villa squad running out of gas before the end of the season. Good manager in some ways, but I'm far from convinced he'd do well here.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=39634.msg1081219#msg1081219 date=1270302261]
Right from the time Rafa guaranteed 4th earlier in the season, I've had the impression that he recognised this was make or break time for him. I don't agree with the point about criticism from former players (of which there's actually been hardly any) but I do agree that Rafa's thinking is too rigid at times and that that has sometimes cost him, and us, over the years.

As for O'Neill - I for one hope not. For the second season in a row he's had a decent Villa squad running out of gas before the end of the season. Good manager in some ways, but I'm far from convinced he'd do well here.
[/quote]

I think it's a decent Villa team, with a lack of a decent squad that has let them run out of steam to be honest. I'm far from convinced about O'Neill too.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=39634.msg1081219#msg1081219 date=1270302261]
Right from the time Rafa guaranteed 4th earlier in the season, I've had the impression that he recognised this was make or break time for him. I don't agree with the point about criticism from former players (of which there's actually been hardly any) but I do agree that Rafa's thinking is too rigid at times and that that has sometimes cost him, and us, over the years.

As for O'Neill - I for one hope not. For the second season in a row he's had a decent Villa squad running out of gas before the end of the season. Good manager in some ways, but I'm far from convinced he'd do well here.
[/quote]

Agreed, I dont think he is the best solution for us either, I would love Rijkaard myself.

I just have this sneaky feeling about it, after all those rumours last week about O'Neill quitting etc and this fact he has a rolling contract (obviously it is not his long term goal to stay at Villa).


Although we cant really say how he would do at a BIG club, he hasnt really had that opportunity. Yes he was at Celtic etc, and yes he did a great job there. To be honest, right now I would prefer someone like O'Neill to Rafa from a man management point of view.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39634.msg1081228#msg1081228 date=1270303267]
o'neill...?


no, oh fuck me, please no...
[/quote]

x100,000,000
 
[quote author=Fallon link=topic=39634.msg1081249#msg1081249 date=1270305438]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39634.msg1081228#msg1081228 date=1270303267]
o'neill...?


no, oh fuck me, please no...
[/quote]

x100,000,000
[/quote]

trufax
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39634.msg1081228#msg1081228 date=1270303267]
o'neill...?


no, oh fuck me, please no...
[/quote]

+1
 
I think O'Neill is a very good manager. Not sure what all the hostility is based on. He's exceeded expectations at practically every club he's been at. He wouldn't be my first choice, but at this moment he looks a more likely option than Mourinho or Capello, and it would be in our interests to sign a manager on a rolling contract. At least then if he fucked up, he'd just fuck off and it wouldn't cost us a fortune.
 
People are bricking it over O'Neil - and yet a whole load of people on here were advocating Hodgson?


For the record, it's Maureen or bust for us.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39634.msg1081316#msg1081316 date=1270311723]
I think O'Neill is a very good manager. Not sure what all the hostility is based on. He's exceeded expectations at practically every club he's been at. He wouldn't be my first choice, but at this moment he looks a more likely option than Mourinho or Capello, and it would be in our interests to sign a manager on a rolling contract. At least then if he fucked up, he'd just fuck off and it wouldn't cost us a fortune.

[/quote]

You may not have been referring directly to me (I did after all say I think he's a good manager in some ways), but I'll answer that anyway. O'Neill's record proves that he's good at being a big fish in a small pool - nobody expected anything at Wycombe or Leicester, while at Celtic he had basically one competitor to speak of. He's unproven as manager of a big side in a big league, and I include in that his tenure at Villa so far. There are worse risks we could take, but I definitely think we can do better.
 
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39634.msg1081317#msg1081317 date=1270311788]
People are bricking it over O'Neil - and yet a whole load of people on here were advocating Hodgson?


For the record, it's Maureen or bust for us.


[/quote]

I agree with Maureen, but as for advocating Hodson over O'Niel, one is as mad as a cart load of ferrets, and one is clever, intelligent, and one of natures Gentlemen, if a little long in the tooth and would be a good bet for the next England job

regards
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=39634.msg1081320#msg1081320 date=1270312166]
I like o'neill
[/quote]

I don't, but I would take him over Benitez

regards
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39634.msg1081332#msg1081332 date=1270313183]
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39634.msg1081317#msg1081317 date=1270311788]
People are bricking it over O'Neil - and yet a whole load of people on here were advocating Hodgson?


For the record, it's Maureen or bust for us.


[/quote]

I agree with Maureen, but as for advocating Hodson over O'Niel, one is as mad as a cart load of ferrets, and one is clever, intelligent, and one of natures Gentlemen, if a little long in the tooth and would be a good bet for the next England job

regards
[/quote]

So you'd rather have Hodgson based on the idea that he's a nice guy?

JJ, Villa were fighting against relegation when O'Neill arrived, and had been generally hapless for several years. He bought a succession of young, mostly English players who have generally turned out to be very good, and he's moulded them into a solid, quick, counter-attacking team who regularly finish top 6 despite being outspent by all the clubs around them. IMO that's 'exceeding expectations', even if some of Villa's deluded fans expect him to make the CL placings. As you say, he's never managed a top European club, but how does any manager get that kind of job if the minimum requirement for it is previous experience at the same level? He deserves a chance. I'd rather have Mourinho or Capello, as I said before, but I'd be pretty happy with O'Neill.
 
i can't really be arsed arguing either way about o'neill, but for those who are bothered about him, this is gabriele marcotti's take on him last week in the times, which i found interesting, especially regarding his transfer policy:


Tuesday offered a textbook case of how quickly rumours can spread. Peter Lansley's piece sums up neatly how unconfirmed reports of Martin O'Neill's resignation as Aston Villa manager romped around the web and the airwaves. Heck, I was part of it too ... retweeting Oli Kay's tweet (which, responsibly, reminded us that it was UNCONFIRMED) and then watching the mayhem unfold.

I have to confess I don't understand the O'Neill phenomenon. Maybe it's my fault. I don't think he plays outstanding, innovative football. I do think he sets out his teams in a well-organised counter-attacking system and generally gets them to execute his game plan very well. But so do others.

I don't think he's particularly shrewd or creative in the transfer market. By my reckoning, since arriving at Villa Park, his club have spent more money than any other team in the Premier League (£88 million in net terms) with the exception of Manchester City. And, after all that expense, Villa will probably finish somewhere between fifth and seventh which basically equates to the club punching its weight.

Take a quick look at history. O'Neill finished 11th in his first season and sixth the last two years. The much maligned David O'Leary took Villa to sixth place in 2003-04. That was his first season at the club and he took over a side which had finished just three points above relegation the previous year. In the seven seasons between 1995 and 2002, Villa finished fourth, fifth, seventh, sixth, sixth, eighth and eighth, while winning the League Cup in 1996. The guys managing Villa in those years were Brian Little and John Gregory (with a bit of Graham Taylor thrown in). Neither Little nor Gregory (let alone O'Leary) are spoken of in the same glowing terms as O'Neill. And yet they achieved what they achieved without the massive investment from Randy Lerner, but with the rather more cautious Doug Ellis at the helm.

I fail to see what in his results at Aston Villa suggests he's any different from his peers who achieved comparable results, like Harry Redknapp (with a comparable budget) or David Moyes (with a smaller budget and smaller wage bill).

Further muddying the waters - and, again, it's probably just me - is the fact that I don't understand what his transfer strategy is. Since arriving at Villa he has only bought players from British clubs, with three exceptions: John Carew, reserve goalkeeper Brad Guzan and Moustapha Salifou (who is 26 and has yet to start a league game). It has been a pattern throughout his career. At Celtic, in five seasons he brought in three players from abroad: Bobo Balde and Joos Valgaeren who were pretty good and Michael Herbert, who never played a single league game for the club. Now, you obviously don't need to buy players from abroad to be a good manager. But the fact that he has bought just six in nearly nine seasons is a bit of a head-scratcher.

Unless he's somehow prejudiced against them (and I don't think he is), it suggests his scouting network and decision-making maybe isn't what it should be. Instead, he's bought British players, mostly young ones, for which he's been widely praised. But again, it's not as if he's unearthed gems, signing some teenage left back from Colchester who then goes on to become the next Stuart Pearce or an underrated striker from Reading whose career he helps get back on track. Most of his British signings are fairly obvious ones - well-known players at market prices, whether it's Stewart Downing or Ashley Young or James Milner. There's no great nous or imagination there, it's basically a case of bringing in brand names. And paying accordingly for the privilege.

He's supposed to be some kind of guru to young players, but, in fact, he's given league debuts to just four home-grown players in four seasons. One of them, Isaiah Osbourne, is now on loan at Middlesbrough. The other three - Ciaran Clark, Marc Albrighton and Nathan Delfouneso - have between them started a single league game this season and played less than 300 minutes between them. He's meant to be methodical and clear-thinking, but then he signed three quarters of his starting back four (Stephen Warnock, Richard Dunne and James Collins) in the last hours of the transfer window. Which actually doesn't suggest much of a plan at all.

What you're left with is his results. Which, as stated above, are good but not exceptional. Three SPL titltes, three Scottish FA Cups and a League Cup in five years. But, of course, that was at Celtic. Gordon Strachan, his successor, also won three league titles, as well as a Scottish FA Cup and two League Cups, and he did it in four years. You don't see Strachan mentioned in the same breath as Sir Alex Ferguson and Brian Clough do you? And, yes, he did take Celtic to the Uefa Cup final. (But then Steve McClaren also took Middlesbrough to a Uefa Cup final).

O'Neill strikes me, ultimately, as someone who does the job to the level you would expect, given the resources at his disposal. Nothing less, nothing more. When you have a net spend of £88 million over four years, a top six finish is the least you can expect. We'll never know, of course, but one would imagine that, say, David Moyes might have attained comparable heights if he'd had £88 million to spend, instead of the roughly £20 million net spend he's had to work with since O'Neill's arrival. Who knows? Maybe some of the folks further down the food chain would have as well. Heck, maybe even Brian Little and John Gregory.

Would he have been more successful than, say Rafa Benitez at Liverpool or Wenger at Arsenal? Maybe, maybe not. But, while I can imagine an argument for why he would do worse, I have yet to hear a cogent argument for why he would definitely have done better. (I'm all ears, BTW. Though, of course, I accept that it's mere conjecture, we'll probably never know).

One more thing. Lansley's article mentions suggestions that O'Neill is under pressure because Lerner, Villa's owner, is unwilling to make further large investments in the club. If that's the case, it's more than understandable. You spend big, you get the players you want and then you work on making them play well together as a team.

O'Neill has succeeded in doing so with Young and Milner, now it's up to him to make it work with the others. But now comes the real test of whether he really is a special manager or just another "good" manager who succeeds when he's awash with money. Now we'll find out what he can do. Provided, of course, the unconfirmed rumours are wholly false and he does decide to stick around, even with a switched off tap.
 
So MON has a net spend of £88m (which is more than Rafa has spent)?

I hope and pray that this twat doesn't end up managing us one day.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39634.msg1081341#msg1081341 date=1270314610]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39634.msg1081332#msg1081332 date=1270313183]
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39634.msg1081317#msg1081317 date=1270311788]
People are bricking it over O'Neil - and yet a whole load of people on here were advocating Hodgson?


For the record, it's Maureen or bust for us.


[/quote]

I agree with Maureen, but as for advocating Hodson over O'Niel, one is as mad as a cart load of ferrets, and one is clever, intelligent, and one of natures Gentlemen, if a little long in the tooth and would be a good bet for the next England job

regards
[/quote]

So you'd rather have Hodgson based on the idea that he's a nice guy?



[/quote]

and not a fucking nutcase, and in football terms probably has the edge on the looney....Problem?
 
Anyway, back to the original point, it would seem Rafa was possibly right regarding Aqua seeing as he is on the bench again.

Its a weird one. Ive got this weird feeling Aqua and the Keane transfers were choices of the board rather than Rafa's choices. Why else would he be so reluctant to play them? Ive had this thought that Rafa was being stubborn over the situation to make a point (as per usual). It really wouldnt surprise me if Aqua was on a plane back to Roma come June.
 
I give up. It's always somebody else's fault.

Never mind the fact that Rafa came out and said it was his idea to sign Robbie Keane, who on earth do you think selected Aquilani as a target ?

The fact is Rafa is nowhere near as thorough in his dealings as people's impressions of him. He didn't do his homework on either player.
 
If he was intentionallt "fucking things up" then surely he could be dismissed with no compensation.

Of course he's not, he's just crazy.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=39634.msg1082040#msg1082040 date=1270397833]
If he was intentionallt "fucking things up" then surely he could be dismissed with no compensation.

Of course he's not, he's just crazy.
[/quote]

he is crazy any manager who lets riise,warnock,xabi,crouch,bellamy,keane ,and others go to replace them with the likes of lucas,insua,ngog ,dossena must be one crazy dude.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39634.msg1081702#msg1081702 date=1270389229]
I give up. It's always somebody else's fault.

Never mind the fact that Rafa came out and said it was his idea to sign Robbie Keane, who on earth do you think selected Aquilani as a target ?

The fact is Rafa is nowhere near as thorough in his dealings as people's impressions of him. He didn't do his homework on either player.
[/quote]

Let's not forget selling Riise and Warnock and buying Drossena and Insua

And thinking Lucas was good enough to play for Liverpool.

He's a fucking shambles.
 
[quote author=Bernowatson link=topic=39634.msg1081693#msg1081693 date=1270388022]
Anyway, back to the original point, it would seem Rafa was possibly right regarding Aqua seeing as he is on the bench again.

Its a weird one. Ive got this weird feeling Aqua and the Keane transfers were choices of the board rather than Rafa's choices. Why else would he be so reluctant to play them? Ive had this thought that Rafa was being stubborn over the situation to make a point (as per usual). It really wouldnt surprise me if Aqua was on a plane back to Roma come June.
[/quote]

Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
 
At least Peterhague has put the M'ON for Liverpool idea to bed. Thank fuck for that.
 
[quote author=Bernowatson link=topic=39634.msg1081693#msg1081693 date=1270388022]
Anyway, back to the original point, it would seem Rafa was possibly right regarding Aqua seeing as he is on the bench again.

Its a weird one. Ive got this weird feeling Aqua and the Keane transfers were choices of the board rather than Rafa's choices. Why else would he be so reluctant to play them? Ive had this thought that Rafa was being stubborn over the situation to make a point (as per usual). It really wouldnt surprise me if Aqua was on a plane back to Roma come June.
[/quote]

That's just the epitome of RCDNW right there.

He bought him, he fucked up, get the fuck over it.

I guess Dossena at £7m was Rafa being forced into buying mediocrity because he's so fucking hard done by?
 
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