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Pepe's Raise

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[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=36850.msg975374#msg975374 date=1256989517]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36850.msg975364#msg975364 date=1256988437]
The bottom line is, when we buy fuck all players this summer because we're skint, I wonder if we'll look upon handing out such massive wage increases.

I take Ryan's point but given how poor we allegedly are, I'm surprised we're the club handing out record contracts. The debate isn't whether he's worth the supposed the deal. The debate's about why we're the first club to buck the trend, and whether we can afford to do so.
[/quote]

Petr Cech : £ 90,000
VdS : £ 95,680.00

Pepe's salary is now where it should be.
[/quote]

Well is it ?

He's better than both of them.

I'd be surprised if Van Der Sar is on that much. But Cech is a case in point, he signed that deal when he was a fantastic goalkeeper. Look at him now, he's worth about half of that.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36850.msg975373#msg975373 date=1256989320]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=36850.msg975366#msg975366 date=1256988588]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36850.msg975363#msg975363 date=1256988342]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36850.msg975361#msg975361 date=1256987921]
And what happens if that striker on 45K turns out to be any good, and after a year wants a raise? Do we flog him too and save the pennies for even more back-up players?

This is what happens when you've got World Class players Ross, they generally command world class wages too.

[/quote]

Depends on the situation Ryan.

When working with limited resources every single decision is important, if you look at what we're reportedly paying our top earners it takes up a big chunk of the wage bill, we seem to working off a wage budget of around 95m a year.

Pepe now accounts for nearly 6% of that. If his performances provide value for that in the coming years then I'll have no complaints. But if in 3 years time when Pepe hits the wrong side of thirty, has an injury or two and loses the explosiveness in his step we'll have half the keeper we have now at a whopping 95k a week.

[/quote]

Pepe is hardly likely he'll lose it all by the ripe old age of 30 - especially since keepers improve with age and regularly play until 35 +
[/quote]

That's the sort of generalisation that costs people a lot of money Froggie.

Is Cech a better keeper now than he as 3 years ago ?
Van Der Sar is still a capable Premiership keeper, but he's not as good as he was 7 or 8 years ago.

The reason Pepe is so good right now is because of his explosive power, it gives him a range and reactions that no other goalkeeper in the Premiership can match. That isn't the sort of thing that improves with age.
[/quote]

Yet still GKs are considered to be in their prime at 30 - 33. There is a reason for that.

However the point you raised about him maybe not being as good in 3 years is also a generalisation as the same could be very well be said for any player.

VdS is nearly 40 so hardly a fair comparison - yet his salary is still (with Cech) the highest for any keeper in world football, these are the days we live in.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36850.msg975376#msg975376 date=1256989658]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36850.msg975363#msg975363 date=1256988342]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36850.msg975361#msg975361 date=1256987921]
And what happens if that striker on 45K turns out to be any good, and after a year wants a raise? Do we flog him too and save the pennies for even more back-up players?

This is what happens when you've got World Class players Ross, they generally command world class wages too.

[/quote]

Depends on the situation Ryan.

When working with limited resources every single decision is important, if you look at what we're reportedly paying our top earners it takes up a big chunk of the wage bill, we seem to working off a wage budget of around 95m a year.

Pepe now accounts for nearly 6% of that. If his performances provide value for that in the coming years then I'll have no complaints. But if in 3 years time when Pepe hits the wrong side of thirty, has an injury or two and loses the explosiveness in his step we'll have half the keeper we have now at a whopping 95k a week.


[/quote]

Most of your argument is based on hypotheticals, and doomsday scenarions Ross. Let's work on what we know:

- He's the best goalkeeper in the world
- His mates have either left or are looking to leave for a variety of reasons
- He's the best goalkeeper we've had since Clemence
- Top drawer goalkeepers can't be replaced easily
- We don't have enough World Class players

Now we could work off the pretence that he might get injured, might lose form, might become injured in 3 years time and apply that to contract decision-making from now on, and see where that gets us.

Not too far is my guess.
[/quote]

Ryan your attitude is symptomatic of the reason why football is in the shits right now. Your not willing to consider all possibilities and make an informed, sensible decision.

If we made decisions on this basis we'd be a much better run football club.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36850.msg975377#msg975377 date=1256989720]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=36850.msg975374#msg975374 date=1256989517]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36850.msg975364#msg975364 date=1256988437]
The bottom line is, when we buy fuck all players this summer because we're skint, I wonder if we'll look upon handing out such massive wage increases.

I take Ryan's point but given how poor we allegedly are, I'm surprised we're the club handing out record contracts. The debate isn't whether he's worth the supposed the deal. The debate's about why we're the first club to buck the trend, and whether we can afford to do so.
[/quote]

Petr Cech : £ 90,000
VdS : £ 95,680.00

Pepe's salary is now where it should be.
[/quote]

Well is it ?

He's better than both of them.

I'd be surprised if Van Der Sar is on that much. But Cech is a case in point, he signed that deal when he was a fantastic goalkeeper. Look at him now, he's worth about half of that.
[/quote]

The VdS quote is from Pay Wizard

Petr Cech suffered an horrific injury that seems to have affected him. Prior to that he was pretty much the undisputed World #1
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36850.msg975380#msg975380 date=1256989838]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36850.msg975376#msg975376 date=1256989658]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36850.msg975363#msg975363 date=1256988342]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36850.msg975361#msg975361 date=1256987921]
And what happens if that striker on 45K turns out to be any good, and after a year wants a raise? Do we flog him too and save the pennies for even more back-up players?

This is what happens when you've got World Class players Ross, they generally command world class wages too.

[/quote]

Depends on the situation Ryan.

When working with limited resources every single decision is important, if you look at what we're reportedly paying our top earners it takes up a big chunk of the wage bill, we seem to working off a wage budget of around 95m a year.

Pepe now accounts for nearly 6% of that. If his performances provide value for that in the coming years then I'll have no complaints. But if in 3 years time when Pepe hits the wrong side of thirty, has an injury or two and loses the explosiveness in his step we'll have half the keeper we have now at a whopping 95k a week.


[/quote]

Most of your argument is based on hypotheticals, and doomsday scenarions Ross. Let's work on what we know:

- He's the best goalkeeper in the world
- His mates have either left or are looking to leave for a variety of reasons
- He's the best goalkeeper we've had since Clemence
- Top drawer goalkeepers can't be replaced easily
- We don't have enough World Class players

Now we could work off the pretence that he might get injured, might lose form, might become injured in 3 years time and apply that to contract decision-making from now on, and see where that gets us.

Not too far is my guess.
[/quote]

Ryan your attitude is symptomatic of the reason why football is in the shits right now. Your not willing to consider all possibilities and make an informed, sensible decision.

If we made decisions on this basis we'd be a much better run football club.
[/quote]

Ross, you're taliking shit, no harm to you.

So we should take into consideration that he might get injured before giving him a pay rise?
We should possibly let him go, sign someone not as good, and get a cheap-shit back-up striker with the leftovers?
Worry that because in 3 years time, he's over 30 (which generally means fuck-all for goalkeepers anyway) and might not be the best goalkeeper in the world?

Don't harbour any illusions that you're applying 'common business sense' to this contract discussion. You're trying to, but you're not.

Nobody agrees with you. Let it go.
 
You can leave out the condescending remarks for a start.

Yes we should take injury records into account. Pepe has good one, but in a similar way to Owen he's reliant on a physical ability that won't always be there. So we need to be mindful of that.

I brought this argument up when we gave Agger a pay rise during the summer too, what have we gotten out of the 75k a week for the last four months (approx. 1.2m?) - three games, two of which we lost.

We are a very wasteful club, and we can't afford to be.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36850.msg975396#msg975396 date=1256991156]
You can leave out the condescending remarks for a start.

Yes we should take injury records into account. Pepe has good one, but in a similar way to Owen he's reliant on a physical ability that won't always be there. So we need to be mindful of that.

I brought this argument up when we gave Agger a pay rise during the summer too, what have we gotten out of the 75k a week for the last four months (approx. 1.2m?) - three games, two of which we lost.

We are a very wasteful club, and we can't afford to be.
[/quote]

You had a better argument regards Agger because of his injury record, but with Pepe, it's a bit of a no brainer and I think the club has got it right in this instance.

I guess the key is to sell at the right time when the manager feels the player is on the downward slide but is still worth a decent transfer fee, which is what Wenger is particularly good at doing.

However if we did that, we wouldn't have the wonderful scenes like we did with Sami last season.
 
In january the Yanks will say "there is no money for transfers, we gave Reina a pay rise"
Im with Ross on this one, another risky move on the business perspective.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=36850.msg975406#msg975406 date=1256992788]
Pepe deserves it. That is all.
[/quote]


^^^^^^
 
I am absolutely dazed that people are even debating this issue. We are not struggling financially because of the 95K we are going to hand to Pepe. If anything we should try to avoid the 30 or 40 K (I dont know the exact number) we have been giving to marginal players like Voronin, Degen, Babel. Pepe is worth his money. It is not about the number, we need players who deserves the actual number. If that is the case, we wont have issues winning trophies and titles and finances would be alright.

And for the record, Valdez and Casilass make 150,000 per week. So does Buffon. When it is time for Cech to negotiate his contract, I am sure he will make more than 100K.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36850.msg975387#msg975387 date=1256990292]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36850.msg975380#msg975380 date=1256989838]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36850.msg975376#msg975376 date=1256989658]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36850.msg975363#msg975363 date=1256988342]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36850.msg975361#msg975361 date=1256987921]
And what happens if that striker on 45K turns out to be any good, and after a year wants a raise? Do we flog him too and save the pennies for even more back-up players?

This is what happens when you've got World Class players Ross, they generally command world class wages too.

[/quote]

Depends on the situation Ryan.

When working with limited resources every single decision is important, if you look at what we're reportedly paying our top earners it takes up a big chunk of the wage bill, we seem to working off a wage budget of around 95m a year.

Pepe now accounts for nearly 6% of that. If his performances provide value for that in the coming years then I'll have no complaints. But if in 3 years time when Pepe hits the wrong side of thirty, has an injury or two and loses the explosiveness in his step we'll have half the keeper we have now at a whopping 95k a week.


[/quote]

Most of your argument is based on hypotheticals, and doomsday scenarions Ross. Let's work on what we know:

- He's the best goalkeeper in the world
- His mates have either left or are looking to leave for a variety of reasons
- He's the best goalkeeper we've had since Clemence
- Top drawer goalkeepers can't be replaced easily
- We don't have enough World Class players

Now we could work off the pretence that he might get injured, might lose form, might become injured in 3 years time and apply that to contract decision-making from now on, and see where that gets us.

Not too far is my guess.
[/quote]

Ryan your attitude is symptomatic of the reason why football is in the shits right now. Your not willing to consider all possibilities and make an informed, sensible decision.

If we made decisions on this basis we'd be a much better run football club.
[/quote]

Ross, you're taliking shit, no harm to you.

So we should take into consideration that he might get injured before giving him a pay rise?
We should possibly let him go, sign someone not as good, and get a cheap-shit back-up striker with the leftovers?
Worry that because in 3 years time, he's over 30 (which generally means fuck-all for goalkeepers anyway) and might not be the best goalkeeper in the world?

Don't harbour any illusions that you're applying 'common business sense' to this contract discussion. You're trying to, but you're not.

Nobody agrees with you. Let it go.
[/quote]

Harsh but fair.
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=36850.msg975421#msg975421 date=1256994725]
Mods. Can u sort the ignore cunt option for us mobile browsers. Thanks.
[/quote]

Can you refrain from asking questions like that under my posts please?
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36850.msg975387#msg975387 date=1256990292]
Ross, you're taliking shit, no harm to you.

So we should take into consideration that he might get injured before giving him a pay rise?
We should possibly let him go, sign someone not as good, and get a cheap-shit back-up striker with the leftovers?
Worry that because in 3 years time, he's over 30 (which generally means fuck-all for goalkeepers anyway) and might not be the best goalkeeper in the world?

Don't harbour any illusions that you're applying 'common business sense' to this contract discussion. You're trying to, but you're not.

Nobody agrees with you. Let it go.
[/quote]

Rage might agree
 
I think there's been a lot of responses to individual wage increases ignoring the fact that there's been a bump in what was already constant and significant wage inflation.

That's why 20M a year including wages over a several year term worries me. Wages continue to escalate and while revenues have as well a significant portion of our revenue is stuck where it is, for obvious reasons, and broadcast revenue, which has outperformed every other league, is lumped in partially with a requirement for CL football.
 
[quote author=peekay link=topic=36850.msg975419#msg975419 date=1256994070]
I am absolutely dazed that people are even debating this issue. We are not struggling financially because of the 95K we are going to hand to Pepe. If anything we should try to avoid the 30 or 40 K (I dont know the exact number) we have been giving to marginal players like Voronin, Degen, Babel. Pepe is worth his money. It is not about the number, we need players who deserves the actual number. If that is the case, we wont have issues winning trophies and titles and finances would be alright.

And for the record, Valdez and Casilass make 150,000 per week. So does Buffon. When it is time for Cech to negotiate his contract, I am sure he will make more than 100K.
[/quote]

I'm amazed everyone is so blase about the subject. We're not a rich club at the moment, it's as if people still think we're in a boom period.

We've handed out a huge amount of pay rises recently, and while it's great we've tied down our best performing players, you really start having to question every penny spent. I don't agree entirely with Ross's predictions that Reina will decline through the course of his contract and therefore not be worth his money; however his attitude to running a football club is much more healthier than his been expressed by 95% on this thread.
 
[quote author=refugee link=topic=36850.msg975489#msg975489 date=1256999804]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36850.msg975387#msg975387 date=1256990292]
Ross, you're taliking shit, no harm to you.

So we should take into consideration that he might get injured before giving him a pay rise?
We should possibly let him go, sign someone not as good, and get a cheap-shit back-up striker with the leftovers?
Worry that because in 3 years time, he's over 30 (which generally means fuck-all for goalkeepers anyway) and might not be the best goalkeeper in the world?

Don't harbour any illusions that you're applying 'common business sense' to this contract discussion. You're trying to, but you're not.

Nobody agrees with you. Let it go.
[/quote]

Rage might agree
[/quote]

He's already mentioned it was a bad move. Natch, because of course it was only Rafa's dcision therefore it must be wrong. :🙂
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=36850.msg975979#msg975979 date=1257012138]
[quote author=refugee link=topic=36850.msg975489#msg975489 date=1256999804]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36850.msg975387#msg975387 date=1256990292]
Ross, you're taliking shit, no harm to you.

So we should take into consideration that he might get injured before giving him a pay rise?
We should possibly let him go, sign someone not as good, and get a cheap-shit back-up striker with the leftovers?
Worry that because in 3 years time, he's over 30 (which generally means fuck-all for goalkeepers anyway) and might not be the best goalkeeper in the world?

Don't harbour any illusions that you're applying 'common business sense' to this contract discussion. You're trying to, but you're not.

Nobody agrees with you. Let it go.
[/quote]

Rage might agree
[/quote]

He's already mentioned it was a bad move. Natch, because of course it was only Rafa's dcision therefore it must be wrong. :🙂
[/quote]

i worry about a man who puts me on ignore then stalks me. of course my opinion wasn't as simplistic as that for anyone who wants to read it.
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=36850.msg975385#msg975385 date=1256990056]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36850.msg975377#msg975377 date=1256989720]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=36850.msg975374#msg975374 date=1256989517]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36850.msg975364#msg975364 date=1256988437]
The bottom line is, when we buy fuck all players this summer because we're skint, I wonder if we'll look upon handing out such massive wage increases.

I take Ryan's point but given how poor we allegedly are, I'm surprised we're the club handing out record contracts. The debate isn't whether he's worth the supposed the deal. The debate's about why we're the first club to buck the trend, and whether we can afford to do so.
[/quote]

Petr Cech : £ 90,000
VdS : £ 95,680.00

Pepe's salary is now where it should be.
[/quote]

Well is it ?

He's better than both of them.

I'd be surprised if Van Der Sar is on that much. But Cech is a case in point, he signed that deal when he was a fantastic goalkeeper. Look at him now, he's worth about half of that.
[/quote]

The VdS quote is from Pay Wizard

Petr Cech suffered an horrific injury that seems to have affected him. Prior to that he was pretty much the undisputed World #1
[/quote]

The hell he was Froggy, he was bloody good but he was just in the top 5 at best.
 
Liverpool keeper Pepe Reina:

“My commitment to Liverpool is 100 per cent. I would die for that Liverpool shirt.

“I think the club loves me and I feel the same, no matter what the situation. I can’t say any more than that.â€

Reina was talking to Liverpool’s official website about the fact that he has yet to sign a new contract.
 
he is EASILY one of the most important players in the team (possibly even top 3) so he should be one of the top earners, we'd be fucked if he left. seriously, who would we get to replace him?
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=36850.msg983779#msg983779 date=1257771725]
Liverpool keeper Pepe Reina:

“My commitment to Liverpool is 100 per cent. I would die for that Liverpool shirt.

“I think the club loves me and I feel the same, no matter what the situation. I can’t say any more than that.â€

Reina was talking to Liverpool’s official website about the fact that he has yet to sign a new contract.
[/quote]



REINA is fucking boss!!
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36850.msg975363#msg975363 date=1256988342]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36850.msg975361#msg975361 date=1256987921]
And what happens if that striker on 45K turns out to be any good, and after a year wants a raise? Do we flog him too and save the pennies for even more back-up players?

This is what happens when you've got World Class players Ross, they generally command world class wages too.

[/quote]

Depends on the situation Ryan.

When working with limited resources every single decision is important, if you look at what we're reportedly paying our top earners it takes up a big chunk of the wage bill, we seem to working off a wage budget of around 95m a year.

Pepe now accounts for nearly 6% of that. If his performances provide value for that in the coming years then I'll have no complaints. But if in 3 years time when Pepe hits the wrong side of thirty, has an injury or two and loses the explosiveness in his step we'll have half the keeper we have now at a whopping 95k a week.


[/quote]

Pepe has an almost spotless injury record, so I don't know where those fears are coming from. What's more, 30 is not old for a goalkeeper so making it out like he'll in some way be past his best once he hits 30 is also misleading.

We have every reason to believe that he'll be one of the best goalkeepers around for at least the next 7 or 8 years. Showing a commitment to him now is just looking after our best interests.
 
Pepe's worth the money he's a class keeper. One of the best Liverpool have ever had.
 
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