Pep Guardiola - a failure in relative terms?

[Rosco]

It's not that long since people were singing his praises as the greatest manager in the game at Barca.

But after his second exit at the semi final stage with Bayern is the shine wearing off?

His super possession orientated teams have been dismantled by precise counter attacking in Both CL semis.

Let's not forget took over a team that had just won the treble in Germany. They've walked the league, as they should but lost the most recent domestic cup final and essentially failed in the CL under him.

So they've worsened slightly - when they presumably expected to improve - I remember people claiming Bayern would be unstoppable with him in charge

 

[Mors]

Much like Rafa following Jose, he was on a hiding to nothing after what his predecessor did the season before.
The only thing he's not dominated is the champions league, and he 'only' won that twice in 4 years at Barca, with one of the best squads of players ever seen. The Bayern team is excellent, but it's not at the level the Barca team was.
He's still doing a brilliant job at Bayern.

 

[peekay]

Before he took over, Barcelona were 18 points of the top team. They were significantly under performing. Utilizing his status as a club legend, he made some bold moves, sold Ronaldinho, brought in youngsters, introduced a new style of play and they were on their way. Kudos to him for doing that. I am not sure that makes him the greatest manager in the game though.

A player like Messi always makes a manager look significantly better. Luis Enrique ( an average manager based on his pre Barcelona record) is on his way to a treble.

 

[juniormember]

This season he faced the best team in the world in the semi's, a team vastly improved with the inclusion of a non-world class striker.
I don't see how winning the domestic league and reaching the CL semi's two years in a row could be classed as failure.

 

[Rosco]

A relative failure.

He's supposed to be the best manager in the game. He's done worse than his predecessor and worse than his old team

 

[peekay]

This season he faced the best team in the world in the semi's, a team vastly improved with the inclusion of a non-world class striker.
I don't see how winning the domestic league and reaching the CL semi's two years in a row could be classed as failure.

I think Rosco meant failure in relative terms from the perspective of "Is he really the greatest manager in the game". From an absolute point of view, winning the league and reaching the CL semi's is not a failure.

 

[keniget]

It's not that long since people were singing his praises as the greatest manager in the game at Barca.

But after his second exit at the semi final stage with Bayern is the shine wearing off?

His super possession orientated teams have been dismantled by precise counter attacking in Both CL semis.

Let's not forget took over a team that had just won the treble in Germany. They've walked the league, as they should but lost the most recent domestic cup final and essentially failed in the CL under him.

So they've worsened slightly - when they presumably expected to improve - I remember people claiming Bayern would be unstoppable with him in charge

Really?

I think, as said, he was always on a hiding to nothing going there after the season they'd just had. I thought it was a bad move.

I think there is a definitely an interesting discussion with regards to the fact that both is teams have been badly exposed by counter-attacking sides in the same way his Barca side were by Bayern (though by that point Tito had taken over).

I think he is a great coach, overrated by the media for sure, but at times the obstacles he faced when taking over Barca are forgotten. It will be interesting to see where he goes from here and that will ultimately decide whether he proves himself worthy of the hype or not.

 

[StevieM]

How can someone that doesn't matter be a failure.

They probably just need a Director of Football.

 

[Rosco]

How can someone that doesn't matter be a failure.

They probably just need a Director of Football.

You just need to change the record.

 

[StevieM]

You just need to change the record.

I'd be putting on U2 then....

 

[Rosco]

Really?

I think, as said, he was always on a hiding to nothing going there after the season they'd just had. I thought it was a bad move.

I think there is a definitely an interesting discussion with regards to the fact that both is teams have been badly exposed by counter-attacking sides in the same way his Barca side were by Bayern (though by that point Tito had taken over).

I think he is a great coach, overrated by the media for sure, but at times the obstacles he faced when taking over Barca are forgotten. It will be interesting to see where he goes from here and that will ultimately decide whether he proves himself worthy of the hype or not.

I'm sure some did, but clearly you didn't.

On the tactical thing - I've always doubted the merits of Guardiolas approach.

Without a a collection of the best players on the planet I'd be amazed if it worked even reasonably well. And I've always felt Messi was the real driving force - it doesn't matter what way you set the team up because he's unstoppable anyway. Surround him with other great players and he becomes even more impossible to play

 

[davud graham]

It might have been more interesting had Robben and Ribery been avalable but that wouldn't have made them defend better. Alaba might have made some difference but not enough i suspect. Basically the front 3 of Barcelona would embarrass most defences.

 

[juniormember]

I'm sure some did, but clearly you didn't.

On the tactical thing - I've always doubted the merits of Guardiolas approach.

Without a a collection of the best players on the planet I'd be amazed if it worked even reasonably well. And I've always felt Messi was the real driving force - it doesn't matter what way you set the team up because he's unstoppable anyway. Surround him with other great players and he becomes even more impossible to play

Weren't you saying that Messi was finished last season because he was no longer taking steroids?

 

[Rosco]

Weren't you saying that Messi was finished last season because he was no longer taking steroids?

Yes. Of course I was.

I'm amazed at how astoundingly dull and thick the responses are to me from the same people every single time.

 

[peekay]

I'm sure some did, but clearly you didn't.

On the tactical thing - I've always doubted the merits of Guardiolas approach.

Without a a collection of the best players on the planet I'd be amazed if it worked even reasonably well. And I've always felt Messi was the real driving force - it doesn't matter what way you set the team up because he's unstoppable anyway. Surround him with other great players and he becomes even more impossible to play

Agreed. That is one of the reasons which makes me question Rodgers tactics too. I am not saying Rodgers tactics are the same as Guardiola's but there are definitely some similarities in terms of emphasis on pressing and attacking. Even if the tactics are the right one, I dont think we will ever have the quality of players needed to pull it off.

 

[juniormember]

Yes. Of course I was.

I'm amazed at how astoundingly dull and thick the responses are to me from the same people every single time.

jeez, lighten up. You were wrong. No biggie.

 

[Hansern]

No, he isnt a failure at all. Losing to that Barca team with your two top attackers out injured isnt a defining moment at all imho.
You're talking about a Barca team with arguably one of the best if not the best attack ever.

2 league titles in a row and last season they won it with a record breaking 7 games to go.
That probably fucked up their preperations for the Real semi finals and Pep has said many times that the rotations he in the league games before was a big mistake.

Peps record speak for itself regarding thropies and semi finals in the CL.
Will be interesting to see how he will work towards taking them all the way in the CL and improving them.
They will probably be looking at replacing Ribery with a world class attacker.
Sorley miss Ribery/Robbens pace to counter all the possession based football.

But a failure? Not even remotley slightest teeny weeny incy mincy. Thats just wrong at this point.

 

[Le Chacal]

Failure for Bayern standards with a disatrous end of the season.
And thats why hes probably off to City and they re going to sign Klopp

 

[Rosco]

Agreed. That is one of the reasons which makes me question Rodgers tactics too. I am not saying Rodgers tactics are the same as Guardiola's but there are definitely some similarities in terms of emphasis on pressing and attacking. Even if the tactics are the right one, I dont think we will ever have the quality of players needed to pull it off.

Well, I'm of the opinion the managers job is to tailor tactics to get the most out of the squad rather than have a vision and then spend years trying to find the right players at the right time to fit that vision.

But in any event - I'm not that fussed about style or being seen to play the right way (although I could see why the owners would be - TV money)

The majority of teams that overperform for any length of time are the ones that defend well and play in a way thay doesn't expose them too much. Those are generally teams belonging to Pulis, Big Sam, then Southampton are another. Mourinho is not dissimilar either, he just has better tools available for it.

 

[Hansern]

Failure for Bayern standards with a disatrous end of the season.
And thats why hes probably off to City and they re going to sign Klopp

Pellegrini is appaz staying. Pep has already said he's staying.

 

[Woland]

I was half hoping Pep would end up at Citeh next year because of the state of their squad and how there's no fucking chance he could get it to play pissypassa. But I'm even happier if Pellegrini is staying. Why would they do that?

 

[Hansern]

I was half hoping Pep would end up at Citeh next year because of the state of their squad and how there's no fucking chance he could get it to play pissypassa. But I'm even happier if Pellegrini is staying. Why would they do that?

The Guardian reported yesterday that he was supposedly set to stay after this seasons review by the big cunts in charge.
Same for their Director of football/Sporting director.

They want Pogba and De Bruyne this summer to add quality to the squad.

 

[bob1992]

There is some amount of 'blah blah' up in here..... It's simple, Pep has been found out, actually he was found out before he had even left Barca!!
Grief, 21st century football fans and there verbal crap.

 

[gkmacca]

His brother's certainly a meddling little tit, so that's a failure in relative terms, deffo.

 

[Hansern]

There is some amount of 'blah blah' up in here..... It's simple, Pep has been found out, actually he was found out before he had even left Barca!!
Grief, 21st century football fans and there verbal crap.

Found out. You cant be serious?

 

[bob1992]

Found out. You cant be serious?

No , I'm obviously joking!!

 

[Judge Jules]

I was half hoping Pep would end up at Citeh next year because of the state of their squad and how there's no fucking chance he could get it to play pissypassa. But I'm even happier if Pellegrini is staying. Why would they do that?

To keep Guardiola's seat warm for this time next year without the upheaval of getting a new name in.

 

[King Binny]

Not that the result really matter but yesterday's 2-1 defeat at Freiburg meant Bayern Munich lost three Bundesliga games in a row for the first time in 17 years.

 

[Insignificance]

He did not have his strongest squad for the semis and Barca attack is unstopable at the moment. Also that treble was the only time Bayern won a treble, so judging by that unique moment isnt completly fair. Anyway, if everhtime yoj dont win is seen as failure instead of winning being success he obviously failed some.