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Patience to rebuild

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LadyRed

LadyRed

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I know a lot of people feel we need to band aid the current squad and just get back into the top four ASAP, which of course would be great, but how many of us really believe this is going to happen? The reason for that being, essentially we're not good enough. You look at the squad Spurs and City have, I can't even kid myself to say we're the 4th best team in this country. We're a long way from it, and I don't mean that to be pessimistic. Instead we need to think about where we are now, realistically, and think about how we're going to address it in a more long term way.

I think we need major rebuilding, I would like to see us invest in young players, the way that NESV are saying they will. A style of play has to be developed, good examples are obviously Arsenal and Barcelona. I think most of us are in agreement Roy Hodgson isn't the man to lead this revolution. So the sooner a new man comes in, the better.

However, one of the things that I keep hearing is 'we have to get into the top 4 or Torres (sometimes a couple of others, but mainly Torres) will leave'. Would it be that bad if he did? At the moment his presence seems to create a greater pressure of we need to fix this all quickly as we live with the ever present threat that he might leave. Would it not be better to sell him, invest that money in the squad, whilst also buying ourselves the time we need to rebuild the squad properly? So what, if it takes us two seasons to get back in the 'Big Four' if that means we can actually challenge in a meaningful way and be capable of winning the league, rather then just capable of the top four? If there are players that are down for the long game; we keep them, those who aren't can be sold on, on our terms: i.e big money. No player is irreplaceable.

I don't want mediocre. I can live with a couple of seasons of being mid table if it means we can rebuild to become the best in the country and not just play for be the fourth best.
 
Who'd give us proper rebuilding amounts of dough for him right now anyways?

If anyone offered anything like 50m, given we know we have money now, we should take it and rebuild the squad. The only caveat is that Roy isn't the man to design the next stage.
 
The problem is we can only rebuild if we're in the Champions League consistently. And if we're not in there, we're going to really struggle to attract the best players available, therefore struggling to 'rebuild' its a double-edged sword.
 
Spurs were far better equipped to though, squad-wise and also having a Chairman/owner who was able to back the manager with big money signings.
 
I just want to see Gerrard fight and win the league title with Liverpool FC, while he is still playing at a high level.

So i'm in the "lets do it sooner" camp. Fuck slow and steady rebuilding. I'm getting old, and I want to see us challenge while i'm alive.

I can't go through another aborted 5 year plan. I'm still smarting from the two successive aborted 5 year plans.

We always need to field a team that is good enough to win now. Not in 5 years.
 
To be clear I wasn't saying Torres should be sold to finance the rebuild, the owners should be funding that. He should be sold if he doesn't have the patience to stay for a couple of years rebuild. Like I said, being held to ransom by players isn't what a club needs when it's trying to put building blocks together.

KingJ, I agree the one thing that makes me sad is to think of Stevie finishing his career without ever winning the PL. But the point is the 'let's do it sooner' camp isn't gonna build a championship winning side, I don't hink, it's more likely to produce a 'playing for 4th' squad.
 
It's hard to actually imagine us winning the title these days. I've forgotten what winning titles is like.

If someone offered you the choice between a guaranteed title in six years as opposed to waiting and seeing if we could win it before that, what would you choose?
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=42527.msg1209577#msg1209577 date=1288626776]
It's hard to actually imagine us winning the title these days. I've forgotten what winning titles is like.

If someone offered you the choice between a guaranteed title in six years as opposed to waiting and seeing if we could win it before that, what would you choose?
[/quote]

Six years is a bit much. I'm talking more like another ten years of 4th vs title in 3 seasons with Europa until then, whilst playing the kind of football we all want to see us play. I'd take the latter all day long.
 
I know what you're saying, Anita, but I think it's a bit of a false dilemma. We're unlikely to suddenly win the title after three seasons of playing in the Europa League, aren't we? It's much more likely to happen if we can get back in the CL soon.

I don't think there's necessarily any disparity between investing in good young players for the long term and making the four or five senior signings that will allow us to compete with our main rivals in the short term.

I also suspect you're blinded by your hatred of Torres. Well, maybe I'm still blinded by my love of him, but the reality is that we've got three of the best players in the world in our first XI and selling one or more of them is only ever going to be a backward step, not a great leap forward.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=42527.msg1209577#msg1209577 date=1288626776]
It's hard to actually imagine us winning the title these days. I've forgotten what winning titles is like.

If someone offered you the choice between a guaranteed title in six years as opposed to waiting and seeing if we could win it before that, what would you choose?
[/quote]

I'd take the guaranteed title, without any hesitation. Unless you mean it'd be 'guaranteed' by Chinese betting consortiums.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=42527.msg1209595#msg1209595 date=1288628621]
I know what you're saying, Anita, but I think it's a bit of a false dilemma. We're unlikely to suddenly win the title after three seasons of playing in the Europa League, aren't we? It's much more likely to happen if we can get back in the CL soon.

I don't think there's necessarily any disparity between investing in good young players for the long term and making the four or five senior signings that will allow us to compete with our main rivals in the short term.

I also suspect you're blinded by your hatred of Torres. Well, maybe I'm still blinded by my love of him, but the reality is that we've got three of the best players in the world in our first XI and selling one or more of them is only ever going to be a backward step, not a great leap forward.

[/quote]

When you consider that last season we had four and the previous one five, you would have to assume that there is only one way our form would ultimately go if we were to dispense with one of our three world class players.
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=42527.msg1209581#msg1209581 date=1288626952]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=42527.msg1209577#msg1209577 date=1288626776]
It's hard to actually imagine us winning the title these days. I've forgotten what winning titles is like.

If someone offered you the choice between a guaranteed title in six years as opposed to waiting and seeing if we could win it before that, what would you choose?
[/quote]

Six years is a bit much. I'm talking more like another ten years of 4th vs title in 3 seasons with Europa until then, whilst playing the kind of football we all want to see us play. I'd take the latter all day long.
[/quote]

Hey...looks like your "rebuild from scratch" plan is actually faster than the "lets do it sooner" camp. Where do i sign?

But to be practical about it, we need to make big investment in to the playing squad at some stage. Even in your rebuild plan, you speak of a Europa teams for 3 years that suddenly make the jump to a title winning team waltzing 4 or 5 teams. Do you think that is realistic without a sudden influx in good players either through transfers or youth development?

So if it has to be done at some stage, why not spend now and also keep a hold of the good players you got.
 
B-Man; I don't hate Torres, I just resent feeling like we're being held to ransom by him, and think freeing ourselves of that ever present threat means we can get on and do what we need for the Club as opposed to for single players. The dismissal of our past manager was surrounded by stories of players, him included, being the reason behind his departure. And the same again with this manager. Roy should be sacked because he's the wrong man for the job, not because certain players don't like him.
(A French hip hop song came on itunes shuffle as I responded to your post, random fact)

King J, the scenario I game Keni is obviously just trying to make the point of short term sacrifice for long term gain, obviously if we were to rebuild the progress would be gradual, so most likely a couple of years in the Europa (including this season) back into the CL and then push for a title challenge. So maybe we're looking about four years. Six sounds like far too many.
 
I don't think that we are too many players short in the first team. Give me new fullbacks and classy wingers to turn us into a championship side while retaining our best players.

With the young talent coming through, we should invest in the starting XI. The youngsters will do the rest!

Things may not be ideal at the minute but its not as bad as some make it out to be.

As for player sales, considering their lack of contribution as a result of injury/loss of form, I would consider selling Torres (injury, form and attitude), Agger (injury) and Magic (injury and form) if the money offered is good enough. I like these players, but what's the point of having them in the squad?
 
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