Pace - the search for the next Salah - Mane

[StevieM]

Where do people get these stats about who is faster than who at the club?

Opta

 

[LeTallecWiz]

 

[LeTallecWiz]

 

[LeTallecWiz]

 

[LeTallecWiz]

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[Trying to get this thread back on track]

 

[StevieM]

It didn't stop Mane scoring, hitting the post and beng our best player.

But when we needed Firmino on step up, in the biggest game of his career, he ambled about slowly and did fuck all. Not all his fault, the entire team and support were dismayed when Salah's pace and goal threat was replaced by the pedestrian Lallana, but he needs pace around him to perform.

Imagine it like cos-play, when you get your XXXXXL Jedi outfit on to watch Star Wars, you need other people to join in and be on your wavelength, to play at your level.

Yes we did need Firmino to step up, yes Lallana was terrible, but it’s frankly bollocks to suggest that Firmino “needs pace around him to perform” as is the assumption that Firmino “is too slow”.

You snide prick.

 

[doctor_mac]

What the fuck are you posting Wiz?

 

[MomoWASright]

Has LTW been banned yet?

 

[Best Believe It]

I am confused by many things in this thread

 

[rurikbird]

[Trying to get this thread back on track]

You should've done this in the Fekir/sandwich thread.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

What the fuck are you posting Wiz?

Trying to get the topic back on praising Madrid and their awesomeness.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Has LTW been banned yet?

I tried, and failed ... I fucking suck at this job!

 

[MomoWASright]

I tried, and failed ... I fucking suck at this job!

Sounds like me and my proper job.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Sounds like me and my proper job.

Yah, but at least you get paid for your proper job! 🙂

 

[tombrown]

I tried, and failed ... I fucking suck at this job!

Try emigrating to Australia … from what I have seen you have a 1 in 3 chance if you do that

 

[i_rushie]

So apart from being a slow flabby melt, will Firmino ever be that twenty goal a season striker we need?

 

[Dreambeliever]

I hear you - and agree with a great deal.

One other perspective is that the change that happened after the Salah was in how effectively we pressed their defence is possession.

Their possession stats jumped up significantly- by 20% odd I believe.

Our front 3 has been very good at closing down space and passing options, particularly around their CB’s - which meant RM weren’t as fluid getting the ball to their midfield - who in turn could get hold of the ball long enough to pick us apart.

Now, being quick in the press (which is what gegenpressing is all about) and second guessing where passes are going is not the same as being a quick or fast player.

Pace is important when/if you get the ball.

Whatever happened- the quick press slowed immediately and stopped working or being as effective.

The theory is that players press together in a group - our group of forwards stopped being as successful at pressing after Salah went off - so the press fell apart.

I’d blame it on Lallana replacing Salah - but because he wasn’t as good at pressing as Salah - whether it’s because he wasn’t match fit or that that the group just weren’t used to working together as effectively, I don’t know.

I do know that it wasn’t solely to do with Lallana and Firmino being slow though.

I agree with this. Although Lallana used to be extremely effective at pressing.

Like I said if for instance we had a Coutinho to come in for Salah I think we still win.

Mane couldn't do it on his own, Lallana wasn't fit or match ready and Firmino offered virtually nothing, he didn't carry the ball or hold it up.

We lacked what Mane and Salah bring as a duo or what Coutinho brought.

Ox would certainly have helped but we need more depth with those attributes

 

[Dreambeliever]

Absolutely - and our press collectively crumbled.

I’m not arguing that Lallana wasn’t the problem - his lack of match fitness, being played out of position, the fact that the Fab 3 play so well together, collective dropping of heads, etc

It wouldn’t have mattered if he had Usain Bolt level pace.

Yes it would as Madrid would have been wary of two balls not just one,

 

[LarryHagman]

It's clear, has been for a while, once we move or are moved from our model, we're fucked. We don't respond to it, or at least Klopp can't. So, we need players who can slot in. Like Zaha etc.
Once the shape of the team is affected, we're toast. Madrid wasn't the first time that's happened.

 

[StevieM]

I agree with this. Although Lallana used to be extremely effective at pressing.

Like I said if for instance we had a Coutinho to come in for Salah I think we still win.

Mane couldn't do it on his own, Lallana wasn't fit or match ready and Firmino offered virtually nothing, he didn't carry the ball or hold it up.

We lacked what Mane and Salah bring as a duo or what Coutinho brought.

Ox would certainly have helped but we need more depth with those attributes

Lallana is used to playing in the central forward role of the midfield 3.

That was the Coutinho role and more recently the position AOC was making his own.

So the attacking 3 in the quick/high press operate as a unit - when one goes to press the other two are supposed to close in and cut off passing options - best description I’ve seen is, as if they were all tied together with elastic.

We’ve been fortunate that they’ve played together a lot this year - as a unit they’ve become excellent at pressing - once they win a ball with the high press - that’s when the pace really shows off.

So again - my point is - Lallana isn’t upset the balance, the press crumbled, Firmino couldn’t get into the game, their midfield took control and by the middle of the 2nd half our midfield had ran out of steam - Milner was fucked by the time he came off.

For me, the one positive I’d take - is that there aren’t many teams with players that have as much technical ability and skill to retain possession and pass through a well organised high press as Real Madrid.

 

[MomoWASright]

Yah, but at least you get paid for your proper job! 🙂

It’s a perk of the civil service.

 

[Brizzle]

Would have been interesting to try TAA on the wing and throw Clyne on at RB in the final as a plan B for losing one of Mane or Mo.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Would have been interesting to try TAA on the wing and throw Clyne on at RB in the final as a plan B for losing one of Mane or Mo.

I suggested that in the pub

 

[moron]

I suggested that in the pub

Yep...but Klopp turned Rafa and played his trustworthy one who was an unfit cripple.

And no will not let it go.