Our Transfer Policy.

[Halmeister]

I don't want to get into a debate about the infamous "committee", but do we even have a policy or strategy? And the one we are seemingly employing, is it even a successful one?

Other than the likes of Grujic, Karius, Klavan and Can and Coutinho (I'm sure there's more, I'm just going off the top of my head here), our policy just seems to be signing players from teams who finished below us but scored or played well against us. Or Southampton players.

Mane - scored a boat load against us in his few seasons in the prem. Was offered to us before he joined Southampton for around £10m. We signed him for £36m

Wijnaldum - scored a brace against us last season. £25m

Benteke - another who regularly tormented us. Particularly at Anfield. Signed for £32.5m

Lambert - not sure if this falls under the same category, what with his scouse connection and all, but scored against us and signed for £4m

Lallana - didn't score against us as far as I can recall, but he did play us off the park a couple of times. Signed for £25m

Lovren - scored the winner against us at Anfield when Southampton won 1-0. Signed for £20m


Allen - probably ran rings around us as we promptly bottled it and submitted at Swansea at sometime or another. £15m



We go a little further back and we get to the Carroll and Downing shambles that cost us a combined £55m. Both had scored against us before we signed them.

Now, there's no problem signing players from the same league or players that have scored against you or anything like that, but there doesn't seem to have been much thought gone into those signings other than "oh they were great against us. Let's sign them up." Lots of those players were just completely unsuited to our club and the way we play. Just look at the money spent up there. How many of those could we say were successful? Some of those plodders are our top transfers ever.

It's as if we've got two sets of scouting teams. The first that can locate and unearth unknown or unwanted gems, such as Coutinho, Can, Sturridge, and hopefully Grujic and Karius. Then there's the second that seemingly only watches Liverpool Premiership games. What do they actually do? Surely we could sign the same player with the same ability at least for much, much lower. As I said earlier, Mane was offered to us for a lot cheaper. Our scouts have seemingly known about Wijnaldum for years.

We sign so many players from Villa, Southampton, Newcastle and wonder why we're midtable. "Oh but if we signed them immediately before they had ever played in the Premiership we wouldn't know if they could cut it." Nonsense. Our best signings in recent years have been the cheaper ones. The big money intra-prem transfers have been a load of old cow pat. There's a lot less risk with signing someone for £10m or under from the continent than someone from £30m in the premier league. Plus, it's not as if the premier league is that difficult for foreigners to grasp anymore. It's about 75% foreigners.

Sorry for the long rant but it's just frustrating. Very rarely have these types of deals worked out for us. I can only really point to Henderson, more recently Lallana and perhaps Lovren justifying their fee. Clyne has been a success. He scored against us too, by the way.

We're paying top, world class fees for chumps in the most part. Our success stories have been when we've seemingly done our homework, been shrewd and signed the player for cheap. We're trying to pay top level prices in some desperate attempt to convince ourselves we're still dining at the top table. We're a middle of the road club, and it's about time we were cleverer with our transfers like other clubs in our position. In my opinion, we're the worst in the country when it comes to transfers.

 

[Skullflower]

Yep. I was expecting a massive change wirh klopp. Wishful thinking.

 

[manwithnoname]

Yep. I was expecting a massive change wirh klopp. Wishful thinking.

It could just be coincidence. He has addressed quite a few of the issues with the squad that we where all moaning about, and he's even gone back to Germany for a couple of players.

He's done almost everything we wanted.

 

[Modo]

Michael Thomas, took the title from us.

 

[cloggypop]

If we just signed players who were boss against us we would have signed Bony instead of Mario.

 

[Frogfish]

It's no surprise that those players have all played and scored, or done well, against us at one time or another (though you'd need to check every match to see whether it is only their standout games we are remembering) since we play those teams year in year out in the PL and in cups too. There's probably more than a little coincidence there. Southampton is surely an anomaly.

As for buying from teams below us .. it's not likely we would be buying from teams above us unless they were cast-offs. So if not from teams below us or from remote Euro countries or 2nd rate teams in Germany/France/Spain - where do we buy from ? We can't at this time select from the buffet at the top table.

 

[Halmeister]

It's no surprise that those players have all played and scored, or done well, against us at one time or another (though you'd need to check every match to see whether it is only their standout games we are remembering) since we play those teams year in year out in the PL and in cups too. There's probably more than a little coincidence there. Southampton is surely an anomaly.

As for buying from teams below us .. it's not likely we would be buying from teams above us unless they were cast-offs. So if not from teams below us or from remote Euro countries or 2nd rate teams in Germany/France/Spain - where do we buy from ? We can't at this time select from the buffet at the top table.

I think players like Milner, Sturridge, Coutinho, the attempt for Goetze should be the kind of thing we should look to do. Quality players that don't get a look in at the bigger clubs.

That in addition to the Sevilla/Porto/Dortmund model of trying to sign cheap players from smaller clubs with high potential.

At the moment, we're signing a lot of players at their peak, for a lot of money, that just aren't worth the price. Add to the fact that the English market is grossly inflated and we're getting nowhere near value for money.

For example, we signed Coutinho for £8.5m and we've just signed Mane for £36m. It's just a rough way of analysing it, and I know Coutinho is worth significantly more now, but is the Mane of today worth 4 Coutinhos from three years ago? Nope. There are bargains to be had, we're just terrible at finding them.

 

[Windom Earle]

Do you know what, I think the owners deserve a lot of respect.

First they put their faith in Kenny and Commoli - this was a short lived venture and, amongst other things, brought them a £20m loss on Andy Carroll and a £15m loss on Downing.

Then they moved away from a DoF, and while there has been some good buys (Sturridge, Coutinho, Firmino, Origi), there has also been more expensive flops (Benteke, Markovic, Lovren (until his revival under Klopp but still early to say), Balotelli, Aspas, Alberto, Illori).

They have overseen somewhere in the region on £600m+ spending in transfer fees until this summer. Despite the failures they keep opening the cheque book. They keep backing the manager. The quality of purchases overall has to improve, but if FSG keep backing managers then there is at least an opportunity to turn it around.

 

[Halmeister]

Yeah, to be honest I don't get the hate with the owners. They're always there and willing to spend the money. It's whoever is in charge of spotting players that wastes their money on shite.

We've spent over £200m on players from Villa, Newcastle and Southampton in recent years and shown no sign of improvement. If anyone else had done that we'd be labelling them a laughing stock. £200m should buy you serious quality. £600m should have bought us something significant during their tenure.

 

[Frogfish]

I think players like Milner, Sturridge, Coutinho, the attempt for Goetze should be the kind of thing we should look to do. Quality players that don't get a look in at the bigger clubs.

Milner was surplus to requirements and we probably only got him because he was on a free, Sturridge and Coutinho were gambles that paid off, players with obvious skills but not tearing it up at their current clubs, Coutinho was even loaned out to Spain and could hardly get a game on his return, we got lucky with both. Goetze we tried for and were rebuffed, primarily due to the lack of CL football.

That in addition to the Sevilla/Porto/Dortmund model of trying to sign cheap players from smaller clubs with high potential.

Spanish / Portugese players have the advantage of buying from South America, not a real option for us due to the immigration restrictions. Dortmund are in the same boat as us, no chance of competing with the monied teams, though they do have the massive advantage over us of a less competitive league and virtually guaranteed CL football. Here are their transfer dealings this Summer. We had no chance of competing for their better signings (in bold), half of them I've never heard of (and isn't that at least in part the same with Klopps') :

Out :
Gündogan (City)
Mkhitaryan (United)
Hummels (Bayern)

In:
Rode (Bayern)
Merino (Ossasuna)
Götze (Bayern)
Schürrle (Wolfsburg)
Dembele (Rennes)
Mor (Denmark)
Raphael (Lorient)
Bartra (Fc Barcelona)​

At the moment, we're signing a lot of players at their peak, for a lot of money, that just aren't worth the price. Add to the fact that the English market is grossly inflated and we're getting nowhere near value for money.

Oh hang on ! Who have we signed this Summer that are at their peak ? With one exception they are all under 25 yrs old and have 2,3,4 years to go to their peaks - at least ! Also note that we have UEFA rules on 'English' players to adhere to, leaving us with little option in some cases.

For example, we signed Coutinho for £8.5m and we've just signed Mane for £36m. It's just a rough way of analysing it, and I know Coutinho is worth significantly more now, but is the Mane of today worth 4 Coutinhos from three years ago? Nope. There are bargains to be had, we're just terrible at finding them.

Honestly it is extreme to even try to compare them like that, to say nothing of the increase in transfer fees over the past few years.

I think you either have unrealistic expectations or are being grossly unfair to the club TBH.

 

[manwithnoname]

Milner was surplus to requirements and we probably only got him because he was on a free

He was offered a new contract by City, for more money than we pay him, and we got him because he thought he would play more often at Liverpool than City and he was impressed with the club and Rodgers.

Correctly.

 

[Frogfish]

He was offered a new contract by City, for more money than we pay him, and we got him because he thought he would play more often at Liverpool than City and he was impressed with the club and Rodgers.

Correctly.

By surplus I meant all parties concerned knew he was not going to be a regular starter but would spend most of his time on the bench. I could have phrased it much better. It was a long post.

 

[Halmeister]

Milner was surplus to requirements and we probably only got him because he was on a free, Sturridge and Coutinho were gambles that paid off, players with obvious skills but not tearing it up at their current clubs, Coutinho was even loaned out to Spain and could hardly get a game on his return, we got lucky with both. Goetze we tried for and were rebuffed, primarily due to the lack of CL football.


Spanish / Portugese players have the advantage of buying from South America, not a real option for us due to the immigration restrictions. Dortmund are in the same boat as us, no chance of competing with the monied teams, though they do have the massive advantage over us of a less competitive league and virtually guaranteed CL football. Here are their transfer dealings this Summer. We had no chance of competing for their better signings (in bold), half of them I've never heard of (and isn't that at least in part the same with Klopps') :

Out :
Gündogan (City)
Mkhitaryan (United)
Hummels (Bayern)

In:
Rode (Bayern)
Merino (Ossasuna)
Götze (Bayern)
Schürrle (Wolfsburg)
Dembele (Rennes)
Mor (Denmark)
Raphael (Lorient)
Bartra (Fc Barcelona)​

Oh hang on ! Who have we signed this Summer that are at their peak ? With one exception they are all under 25 yrs old and have 2,3,4 years to go to their peaks - at least ! Also note that we have UEFA rules on 'English' players to adhere to, leaving us with little option in some cases.


Honestly it is extreme to even try to compare them like that, to say nothing of the increase in transfer fees over the past few years.

I think you either have unrealistic expectations or are being grossly unfair to the club TBH.

I don't think we were lucky with Coutinho and Sturridge. We took a gamble, a cheap one, but it wasn't that much of a gamble. They were clearly talented, young, cheap players. It made so much sense. Milner we took the opportunity of a quality player that wanted to leave a top club for more game time, which is kind of my point.

The Porto/Sevilla immigration thing I accept, but not all their transfers come from South America. They sign some very good players that we could sign too.

Dortmund have the advantage of CL, though I do think the supposed lure of the champions league is overstated. Look at the players Chelsea and Utd are signing. Money talks first. We have more money than Dortmund.

Trying not to sound like Rosco here, but players peak at different ages. We signed Lallana for big money in his late twenties. He has already enjoyed his best years before us when you look at the contrast in his performances and stats. Downing was a similar case too. Explosive forwards like Mane seem to peak early/mid-twenties. He's 24 now. I'm actually happy with our signings with regards to the younger, cheaper ones. They're type of signings we should be making.

I don't have unrealistic expectations at all. To spend the money we have, more than Southampton, more than Spurs, £600m under these owners, and to have one league cup to show for it shows that our transfer policy is piss poor. Southampton and Spurs spend a lot less than we do and have finished above us several times over recent years.

Surely we have the network, the connections to sign the next prospects and guarantee them playing time? We certainly have the money. We still have a little prestige left. Transfers like Coric, Grujic, Can, Karius, et al are signs in the right direction. The hyper-inflated premiership transfers have been more or less proven to not work.

 

[Hansern]

Can you compare the previous regimes with the current? Rodgers didnt know how to build a squad/team and you can see that by his transfers.

You can see that the signings we've made this summer is part of a plan. Adressing the holes in the squad and to suit Klopps tactics.
Wheter or not they will succeed is a different matter.

I dont really care if the players come from PSG, Fulham, Soton or KV Mechelen as long as they fit in and perform.
He has adressed nearly every issue we've seen in this squad, and a left back will surely follow.

Klopp has proved he can build a team so lets see how it pans out.
Klopp seem to focus a lot on training and developing the right type of players.

I'd like him to get some help from a DoF in the future mind, and someone like Zorc would be good if he ever leaves BVB.

 

[HC]

Klopps transfer policy :

Top scoring midfielders - Premier League 2015/16

[xtable]
{thead}
{tr}
{th}Player{/th}
{th}Team{/th}
{th}Goals{/th}
{/tr}
{/thead}
{tbody}
{tr}
{td}Riyad Mahrez{/td}
{td}Leicester{/td}
{td}17{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Georginio Wijnaldum{/td}
{td}Newcastle{/td}
{td}11{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Gylfi Sigurdsson{/td}
{td}Swansea{/td}
{td}11{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Sadio Mane{/td}
{td}Southampton{/td}
{td}11{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Dele Alli{/td}
{td}Tottenham{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]

 

[Skullflower]

Klopps transfer policy :

Top scoring midfielders - Premier League 2015/16

[xtable=skin1]
{thead}
{tr}
{th}Player{/th}
{th}Team{/th}
{th}Goals{/th}
{/tr}
{/thead}
{tbody}
{tr}
{td}Riyad Mahrez{/td}
{td}Leicester{/td}
{td}17{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Georginio Wijnaldum{/td}
{td}Newcastle{/td}
{td}11{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Gylfi Sigurdsson{/td}
{td}Swansea{/td}
{td}11{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Sadio Mane{/td}
{td}Southampton{/td}
{td}11{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Dele Alli{/td}
{td}Tottenham{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]

the same shit was pulled out for downing and adam.

 

[HC]

I highly doubt either were anywhere near the top in any goalscoring tables, not withstanding the fact that both took set pieces.

I don't actually want wijnaldum but yeah , it's interesting he's got two bonafide goal scorers from the league

 

[Modo]

the same shit was pulled out for downing and adam.

Yeah but that was fucking Downing and Adam...
Any rational person could see that it was a mistake signing them.

 

[Halmeister]

How's Mane done in pre-season? He's the one that most sticks in the craw for me, to be honest.

 

[Modo]

How's Mane done in pre-season? He's the one that most sticks in the craw for me, to be honest.

Doesn't look like he's taking it too seriously. But it's quite obvious that he's top class.

 

[Woland]

From now on we should only sign players who were shit against us.

 

[Whirly]

Wijnaldum and Mane fit into the same category as Grujic/Karius/Can/Coutinho/Firmino/Benteke on the international footballing spectrum in terms of talent and potential.

It just happens that they play in the same league as us, and played well against us.

Signings like Allen, Lovren, Lambert, Lallana, Downing, etc just seem like lazy scouting though. Overpriced and limited in terms of present and future ability. Each of these signings probably has some partially valid justification though at the time.

 

[cloggypop]

Allen made sense in that he knew Brendan's style of football well. Makes less sense in a Klopp team.

 

[willby]

One positive is that we're closing deals quicker than it was with the previous management.

 

[Whirly]

Allen made sense in that he knew Brendan's style of football well. Makes less sense in a Klopp team.

Yeah, this was the example I had in mind for him.

 

[Arn]

You don't see that many of the top class young talents move to a big club.

They know that they need to play and move to a club that offer them the chance to do it every week. Very often they also get a chance to play in the CL/EL at the same time.

I think that Klopp club will build the club in the same way Simeone built up Atletico. They are the club we should look at. Not the clubs that can spend money like water.

Hard working team players that every week will work their socks off for the team. Players that will learn to love the club and later will turn down bigger clubs.

 

[reuque]

One positive is that we're closing deals quicker than it was with the previous management.

Not necessarily. The club has been plugging all the leaks, even the normally well connected journos barely get a sniff nowadays. There have been rumours that they've actually started to use unorthodox methods to rectify the transfer 'ITK' bites. None of the most reported targets (Zielinski, Götze, Chillwell) earlier this summer are signing and we've managed to wrap up the Klavan, Mané and Wiknaldum deals in more or less a week after their names surfaced in the news.

 

[cloggypop]

They should push dogshit through Jay Riley's letterbox just to be sure.