Origi

[6TimesaRed]

What's happened to this lad..

Last season we saw a player that was virtuality unplayable, holding a superb physical presence. He looked like we had a complete striker in the making. Held the forward line like an absolute pro, like he had been doing it for years..

Since he has had opportunities this season, he has the physical presence of a mouse with the hold up play of a daddy long legs

Do we give him time to become the striker we thought he could be, or is he just another David Ngog..?

 

[Hansern]

He's showed glimpses of his talent this season aswell but I think it was Rurik that pointed out how much he is affected if his confidence drops. He did score against Wolves though, so maybe that will help him get back into some form.

He's 21 years old. Its quite obvious that we should continue to develop him.

Regarding our striker situation, Sturridge will probably be sold and another striker bought that fits our profile better.

 

[manwithnoname]

Nobody who wasn't a delirious fuckwit thought that Divock Origi was ever going to be 'world class', because he obviously isn't and never will be

He's an even shitter Danny Welbeck

 

[mom]

I'm not convinced he has the outright skill and ability to lead the line in a title winning squad. As back up after some development, maybe.
If he weren't our player right now, would you want to rush out and sign him?

 

[manwithnoname]

I'm not convinced he has the outright skill and ability to lead the line in a title winning squad. As back up after some development, maybe.
If he weren't our player right now, would you want to rush out and sign him?

Nobody would. He'll be gone in a year or so. And we won't miss him.

 

[hmmmmm1]

Confidence looks shot to peices.

 

[Gary25]

He's been shite this last 5 or 6 weeks.

 

[Hansern]

Well, he's obviously talented and hopefully Klopp will stick with him for the next few years.
He's been poor for a good few weeks now but lets hope that will change as the team finds some form aswell.

I doubt Klopp shares the view about him being a shithouse, fuckwit, shitter Danny Welbeck type player.
Its the typical stuff about giving up on a player way to early. As usual.

 

[Halmeister]

I like him. He has a lot of potential, and a decent goalscoring record under Klopp. He's only 21.

 

[manwithnoname]

Well, he's obviously talented and hopefully Klopp will stick with him for the next few years.
He's been poor for a good few weeks now but lets hope that will change as the team finds some form aswell.

I doubt Klopp shares the view about him being a shithouse, fuckwit, shitter Danny Welbeck type player.
Its the typical stuff about giving up on a player way to early. As usual.

Who said he was a shithouse, or a fuckwit?

I just said he isn't very good and clearly won't ever be world class, or anything approaching it.

Doubt anyone would argue with that assessment

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Who said he was a shithouse, or a fuckwit?

I just said he isn't very good and clearly won't ever be world class, or anything approaching it.

Doubt anyone would argue with that assessment

Yes, no player who doesn't do everything expected of a 'world class player' at 21 will ever turn out to be a world class player ...

Like that Chelsea legend who had 7 goals in 34 appearances by the time he's 21 ... or the current Chelsea striker who had 22 goals in 90 games by the time he was 21.

He's 21 ... the tools are there.

 

[Insignificance]

He has got plenty potential that lad, but need to up his game more often. Maybe he ain't cynical enough. Not sure why he go hiding every now and then, cause when he has a good patch he looks Dangerous. Strong, tall, fast, scores the odd goal.. Attributes that might help us out there.

 

[manwithnoname]

Yes, no player who doesn't do everything expected of a 'world class player' at 21 will ever turn out to be a world class player ...

Like that Chelsea legend who had 7 goals in 34 appearances by the time he's 21 ... or the current Chelsea striker who had 22 goals in 90 games by the time he was 21.

He's 21 ... the tools are there.

Oh this again.

Because amazing Player X hadn't done Y by age Z, then it's OK to assume the Average player under discussion will probably do it, even though it's far more likely that the Average player will follow the statistically more likely path, and continue to be Average.

But yeah, keep thinking Origi will be the next Drogba or Costa or whichever other Chelsea player you bizarrely choose as your next doomed comparison. Not sure why it's always Chelsea players. Maybe the idea of comparing Origi to previous world class Liverpool players is just too ridiculous and easily mocked.

But give it a go! He could be the next Fowler or Owen! If they hadn't already been world class by the same age.

Oh right, I see why that's a problem, you need to find a player who was totally mediocre and done fuck all at the age of 21, in order to allow the possible improvement with age.

 

[Mors]

Get him out on loan next season, to a premier league club ideally. We'll have Ings back hopefully by then and hopefully Klopp will also get in 1 or 2 more forwards.
I'm not writing him off yet, but he looks nowhere near the standard we need at the moment, he looks at the same level as some of the kids at 16-17 we've got in and around the squad.

 

[Buddha]

If ever there was a player who might benefit from some decent psychological coaching it's this lad.

He needs to either develop some strong self belief or go wholesale on the non attachment stuff. Right now he's perpetually suspended between two psychological poles and he's lost.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Oh this again.

Because amazing Player X hadn't done Y by age Z, then it's OK to assume the Average player under discussion will probably do it, even though it's far more likely that the Average player will follow the statistically more likely path, and continue to be Average.

But yeah, keep thinking Origi will be the next Drogba or Costa or whichever other Chelsea player you bizarrely choose as your next doomed comparison. Not sure why it's always Chelsea players. Maybe the idea of comparing Origi to previous world class Liverpool players is just too ridiculous and easily mocked.

But give it a go! He could be the next Fowler or Owen! If they hadn't already been world class by the same age.

Oh right, I see why that's a problem, you need to find a player who was totally mediocre and done fuck all at the age of 21, in order to allow the possible improvement with age.

He may make it Brendan, he may not.

But if we browsed the websites of the teams those players played for - or others who didn't make their breakthroughs early - we'd probably see half the folk saying 'potential - could be' and the others saying 'don't see anything there - no chance.'

It's not exactly rocket science ...

- Some players are phenomenal talents - and just never develop the way people think they will (Studge had done nothing by 21 - yet we considered him potentially world class when we signed him)
- Some players struggle in the league and make it elsewhere (Forlan struggled mightily with Manure, and become a top top striker in Spain. Same with Kanoute.)
- Some players are fucking great from day one and then disappear (Owen, Fowler etc)
- Some players don't have it click till much later on (Drogba, Costa etc)
- Some players just suck and are overrated by the fans (Origi for you)

You are adamant that he won't make it ... I get it ... It's your classic "I'm right and will stick to my guns and make sure you know it" stance... It's boring mate, and hopefully you'll eventually (& quietly) acknowledge you were wrong (as you did this past week wrt Studge being a shadow of the player you thought he was). It happens, even you - supreme talent scout - can be wrong. I think he'll be great - but I could be wrong too, as I would have been a bit many young'uns in the past.

 

[manwithnoname]

He may make it Brendan, he may not.

But if we browsed the websites of the teams those players played for - or others who didn't make their breakthroughs early - we'd probably see half the folk saying 'potential - could be' and the others saying 'don't see anything there - no chance.'

It's not exactly rocket science ...

- Some players are phenomenal talents - and just never develop the way people think they will (Studge had done nothing by 21 - yet we considered him potentially world class when we signed him)
- Some players struggle in the league and make it elsewhere (Forlan struggled mightily with Manure, and become a top top striker in Spain. Same with Kanoute.)
- Some players are fucking great from day one and then disappear (Owen, Fowler etc)
- Some players don't have it click till much later on (Drogba, Costa etc)
- Some players just suck and are overrated by the fans (Origi for you)

You are adamant that he won't make it ... I get it ... It's your classic "I'm right and will stick to my guns and make sure you know it" stance... It's boring mate, and hopefully you'll eventually (& quietly) acknowledge you were wrong (as you did this past week wrt Studge being a shadow of the player you thought he was). It happens, even you - supreme talent scout - can be wrong. I think he'll be great - but I could be wrong too, as I would have been a bit many young'uns in the past.

Sturridge? What the fuck are you on about? All I said was that he was the only genuinely top quality finisher at the club. Correct.

What I also said, at length, multiple times, was that I was no longer convinced that injuries had not severely reduced his effectiveness, pace and mobility.

And if so, he should be sold immediately. It's not like we were talking about a player who had yet to prove anything. He scored goals at a tremendously rapid rate before his spate of injuries. Firmino and Origi will be lucky to get to his total between them.

 

[HC]

In all fairness @LeTallecWiz your picking out the exception(s) to the rule..

All I care about is the right now, what he currently offers. which is a very inconsistent level of performance he can go from brilliant to terrible in the blink of an eye and I don't think he's good enough to lead a side thats challenging for silverware.

He's young, he may well develop and kick on but i'd rather he worried about that and we got a forward in the summer that covered our injury-form woes.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Sturridge? What the fuck are you on about? All I said was that he was the only genuinely top quality finisher at the club. Correct.

What I also said, at length, multiple times, was that I was no longer convinced that injuries had not severely reduced his effectiveness, pace and mobility.

And if so, he should be sold immediately. It's not like we were talking about a player who had yet to prove anything. He scored goals at a tremendously rapid rate before his spate of injuries. Firmino and Origi will be lucky to get to his total between them.

You were convinced he should start as a 9 ... which every time that's happened has seen nothing ...

I don't remember you saying that ... but if you did, why on earth would you want him leading our line when he clearly doesn't play as efficiently with Mane/Coutinho as Firmino does?

I feel bad about your conclusion re: Studge - he'd do brilliantly at Arsenal ... but if he has no future at this team, keeping him = losing money.

As for your last sentence ...
Studge - 96 goals in 245 games
Origi - 36 goals in 161 games
Bobby - 81 goals in 280 games

 

[manwithnoname]

You were convinced he should start as a 9 ... which every time that's happened has seen nothing ...

I don't remember you saying that ... but if you did, why on earth would you want him leading our line when he clearly doesn't play as efficiently with Mane/Coutinho as Firmino does?

I feel bad about your conclusion re: Studge - he'd do brilliantly at Arsenal ... but if he has no future at this team, keeping him = losing money.

As for your last sentence ...
Studge - 96 goals in 245 games
Origi - 36 goals in 161 games
Bobby - 81 goals in 280 games

I was talking about goals for Liverpool, which I would have thought was obvious.

Christ though, Origi and Firmino really are dreadful finishers

 

[LeTallecWiz]

In all fairness @LeTallecWiz your picking out the exception(s) to the rule..

All I care about is the right now, what he currently offers. which is a very inconsistent level of performance he can go from brilliant to terrible in the blink of an eye and I don't think he's good enough to lead a side thats challenging for silverware.

He's young, he may well develop and kick on but i'd rather he worried about that and we got a forward in the summer that covered our injury-form woes.

Well - I've seen enough to think he can be a proper player for us.
Right now? He clearly isn't - he's fucking up the balance (like Studge) when he's pushing Firmino to the side, which is having a ripple effect on the rest of the attacking play. He's not meant for the flank, and his confidence isn't there ...

I'm a-ok with getting a world class forward though I'd rather we invest in Coutinho/Mane like players (which is what Brandt may be) and better defenders first.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I was talking about goals for Liverpool, which I would have thought was obvious.

They have a way to go, true.

Bobby 20 in 74
Origi 18 in 61
Studge 58 in 105

 

[Raz]

He's just one of many mediocre players that put on that red shirt we have at this club. We need to do better.

 

[binomial]

He's a far better player than n'gog.....

He's shown already this season he's a very good player as well as last season...people forget he's still 21.

Until late november Klopp only game him 90 minutes of football....and recently he hasn't been playing much.

15 minutes against Sunderland & Swansea, 10 minutes against Southampton in both games.

Came back into the side against Wolves and got a goal...he needs a good run of games in the side.

 

[dantes]

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one, and we need him to have a good run of games out of the side.

 

[beejay]

He's crap at the moment and another of those who have gone backwards this year. I'm running out of patience, he has zero awareness in the box and is caught on the back foot again and again. Doesn't seem to have any of the instincts that make a good striker, doesn't move into space, rarely attacks the ball with any intent, his touch isn't great and he doesn't have the quick feet to adjust to crosses in the area so constantly gets dispossessed before he can get a shot away. For such a big guy he just doesn't seem to jump for the ball and is beaten in the air just about every time, it's infuriating.

He is in the same category as Can and Sturridge at the moment, there's talent in there but we don't see it often enough and you come to the conclusion that they can't be relied upon. What we have now is a core of very good players (as the other thread) but a lot of other players who are inconsistent at best or just totally hit and miss. That's not how League-winning sides function, they all have players on the fringes who step in and make an impact when called upon to do so.

 

[manwithnoname]

It's not really like Sturridge. At his best, at peak physical condition , he's a world class striker and has proved that. Origi is nowhere near his level, and never will be.

But arguably neither will Sturridge now.

The sad fact about Sturridge is that he seems ao physically diminished that a mediocrity like Origi can be argued to start ahead of him

 

[Raz]

He's a far better player than n'gog.....

He's shown already this season he's a very good player as well as last season...people forget he's still 21.

Until late november Klopp only game him 90 minutes of football....and recently he hasn't been playing much.

15 minutes against Sunderland & Swansea, 10 minutes against Southampton in both games.

Came back into the side against Wolves and got a goal...he needs a good run of games in the side.

Is that all he is?

 

[Rosco]

108 games 23 goals.

Between here and Lille.

 

[manwithnoname]

108 games 23 goals.

Between here and Lille.

He's the new Drogba. Or is it Thierry Henry? I'm sure some stats about Henry leaving France, failing at Juve and having a difficult start to his Arsenal career have been spewed out at some point on here.