• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Poll Ole at the wheel choice...

Prefix for Poll Threads

Which do you prefer?

  • Smash the scum, Ole sacked.

    Votes: 6 9.4%
  • Smash the scum, Ole stays.

    Votes: 58 90.6%

  • Total voters
    64
Status
Not open for further replies.
Ronaldo has hurt this team - as many of us thought it would.
He's a selfish player - and doesn't work for the team, wants his goals.
His presence has also hurt Bruno - who was a vital cog for their team.
It's a lazy team - with an average cost.
The key issue we have is they'll come to play Sunday - it's a derby, along with Man City.
Hopefully, Klopp sets up the boys properly and they're eager to ensure that Ole is at the punctured wheel.

The positive is though that they may have one too many players who just don't have high intensity in them. Pogba & Ronaldo will drag them down, no matter how much pressing Greenwood, Rashford, Sancho, Bruno etc. do. I am confident we can pass through any press at the back and keep the pressure on consistently. The biggest challenge for us will be protecting our high line from runs in behind which we saw Rashford doing at the weekend in his return to their team. Robbo is usually guilty of sitting too deep in our line, but this will be very important for us.
 
Signing Ronaldo was always going to result in him being a figure that would challenge Ole on and off the pitch.
Its not a good look for a manager. Ronaldo standing in the dug out giving out orders, or not wanting to join his team mates in clapping the away fans after a loss. Ole is made to look like an assistant manager. Which is about his level anyway.

Regarding Sunday. Its going to be tough. It always is. Its one of the worst games during the season. Losing would be horrendous.
 
Why Ronaldo is giving Solskjaer a huge tactical problem
ronaldo-manu.png

By Michael Cox Oct 18, 2021
comment-icon.png
311
save-icon.png

In one sense, Manchester United’s 4-2 defeat by Leicester could be considered something of a freak result.
The scoreline was 1-1 for the majority of the game, both sides significantly overperformed their xG, and four of the game’s six goals came in the frenetic final 12 minutes — three of them scored by Leicester. It was one of those brilliant periods where strategy and tactics go out of the window, giving way to chaos and luck.
In another sense, Leicester running out convincing winners fitted the game’s pattern. Brendan Rodgers’ side were more organised without possession and more purposeful with the ball. In both aspects of the game, they were considerably more cohesive than Manchester United, who are based around individualism, and are weaker than the sum of their parts.
The poster boy for their current malaise, of course, is Cristiano Ronaldo. He is 36 and, in stark contrast to title rivals whose forwards press relentlessly, Ronaldo simply doesn’t have the physical capacity to repeatedly press — or really, to press at all. The fact he was bottom of these figures — taken from the beginning of the month — came as a surprise to no one.
Ronpress.png

The extent to which he was bottom, however — pressing half as much as the next least-active player — does summarise the degree to which manager and team-mates must reshape to cope.
Manchester United knew the deal when signing Ronaldo: they would get little out of him in terms of regaining possession, but would be sure of a goal per game or pretty close to it. Ronaldo has largely kept to his side of the deal. He has averaged a goal every 111 minutes, none of them penalties. If he had taken and scored United’s late penalty against Aston Villa, he’d be pretty much bang on a goal per game.
His previous Manchester United, Real Madrid, Juventus and Portugal sides have been, to varying extents, structured to cover for him. If he played on the left, the opposite winger would tuck inside more. If he played up front, the wide players or No 10 would play deeper than they would have expected. When Ronaldo leaves, others — Wayne Rooney, Karim Benzema — go up a level because they’re no longer playing second fiddle.
But Manchester United are not successfully covering for him. Without possession they are neither one thing nor the other — they don’t drop off successfully and form a compact block, and they don’t press. The consequence is that the opposition easily play through them.
Here’s what happened when United dropped off against Leicester.
The first time you see a Leicester pass arrowed through United’s midfield to a man in space, like this one from Boubakary Soumare towards Kelechi Iheanacho, you think it might just be a one-off example of good attacking play.
Leicpass1.png

After the second, from Youri Tielemans to James Maddison, you question whether Manchester United’s holding midfield duo of Nemanja Matic and Paul Pogba are positioned correctly.
Leicpass2.png

For the third time — Maddison to Tielemans — you consider the positions of the wide players, vaguely in pressing positions but without the side applying any pressure to the man on the ball, and start to feel sympathy for Matic and Pogba, being forced to cover so much lateral space.
Leicpass2a.png

And then when Tielemans receives the ball and spins, you realise the extent of the gap between midfield and defence, and that Matic and Pogba are being forced to cover so much ground vertically, too.
Leicpass4.png

And here’s what happens when United pressed.
It’s not clear if Ronaldo is trying to press himself in this position, but he glances behind him and gestures for Mason Greenwood to push forward and shut down Caglar Soyuncu.
p1.png

Greenwood does as he’s told, but there’s no actual tactic in his pressing here — he’s not cutting off any passing angles. If he was in a more organised side, he might bend his run to block off the passing lane into Leicester’s left wing-back Timothy Castagne, but he just ambles straight towards Soyuncu…
p2.png

…which means the defender can easily turn and play a simple ball to Castagne. There’s no United player backing up the initial press…
p3.png

…so Castagne can dribble forward into space. Ronaldo now feels obliged to drop back and shut him down, but Castagne simply passes inside to a free midfielder, and Leicester can build from the centre of the pitch. The press was that easy to break.
p4.png

In stark contrast, when a Leicester forward started a press, the whole team backed him up. Their first goal, Tielemans’ delicious chip, came when Iheanacho intercepted a David de Gea pass to Harry Maguire. That was an extreme example but it was also typical of Leicester’s approach. Here, when Jamie Vardy moves towards Victor Lindelof, he starts a press that involves five players — everyone on the left half of Leicester’s system…
V1.png

…and it’s the fifth man, Soyuncu, who makes the interception as a Bruno Fernandes pass goes astray.
V2.png

The shape without the ball just isn’t what you expect of a Premier League side. United’s 4-2-3-1 often looks more like 4-2-4. Here’s one example of them in a midfield block, with Jadon Sancho trying to start a press. They just look easy to play through — so many gaps around individuals.
W.png

A comparison with Leicester’s shape doesn’t quite make sense — they were using 3-4-1-2. But a contrast with Rafa Benitez’s Everton, their previous opponents, does. Here, there’s organisation within the individual lines, and cohesion between them — note how close the defence and midfield are together.
W1.png

United’s starting XI is impressive in terms of individuals, but poor in terms of partnerships and balance. In the central attacking duo, Fernandes is now being forced to do more running without possession to compensate for Ronaldo. He’s largely getting through this manfully, but Fernandes is expending a lot of energy and is less able to focus on what happens when the ball comes his way. Considering his sensational performances since signing for United, the side should continue to be based around him. Ronaldo’s signing has inevitably changed the situation, and United’s best player now finds his game compromised.
They might get away with things if they had a disciplined wide duo to keep the midfield solid. But Sancho is an extremely attack-minded winger, more attacker than midfielder. He’s accustomed to a Dortmund side that tried to press cohesively — he’s still putting himself in those positions rather than helping out United’s midfielders.
On the other flank, Mason Greenwood is a similarly attacking player. He started as a centre-forward in two of United’s first three games of the season, scoring in both, and that seemed likely to be his primary position this season. Ronaldo’s arrival has inevitably changed that, and while he can still score from wide — his goal here was outstanding — he can’t be expected to suddenly be a Park Ji-sung without the ball.
The central midfield zone has the same old problems. We’ve known for years that Pogba is poor defensively when playing in a central midfield duo. Solskjaer worked that out, preferred to use him from wide, and he started the season in excellent form there. But now Ronaldo has to play as a striker, which means Greenwood is playing out wide, which means Pogba has been shifted inside again. So United’s central midfield problems stem from Ronaldo.
“Over the international break we have had a good look to see what has gone wrong lately,” said Solskjaer after yesterday’s defeat. “But we need to look at the whole set-up and balance of the team and maybe something has to give.”
But it’s difficult to see what the solution is. Solskjaer feels like a Galactico-era Real Madrid manager, compelled to start certain players because of their reputation, and largely in a job because he’s happy to placate them rather than make tough tactical decisions. Omitting Ronaldo or Fernandes feels impossible, he can’t be seen to be wasting the £73 million Sancho, Greenwood deserves to start based on form and Pogba started the season brilliantly. But these five can’t play together. To complicate matters further, Anthony Martial started against Everton and scored United’s only goal, and Marcus Rashford came off the bench this weekend to briefly make it 2-2. Oh, and remember Edinson Cavani?
This all felt entirely predictable after Ronaldo’s arrival. Whether he should contribute more without possession is debatable, but it seems obvious that his presence has caused a tactical conundrum that Solskjaer might not be able to solve.
 
Solskjaer is a Manchester United legend, but he’s not above criticism from fans – they hate that it has come to this
GettyImages-1235917078-scaled-e1634574720904-1024x682.jpg

By Andy Mitten 5h ago
comment-icon.png
51
save-icon.png

Manchester United and Liverpool feel like they have almost gone full circle since the two teams last met in front of paying spectators at Old Trafford.
By the time Sunday’s match rolls around it will have been just over two years since fans of Liverpool last visited the home of United, with Jurgen Klopp’s team riding high and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer’s in a slump. Since then they have seen their team win the Premier League, finish below United following a fairly lacklustre defence of their crown, and then start the new season in a manner that suggests United will be hard-pressed to maintain superiority in English football’s greatest rivalry.
When the two clubs last met in April, United fans made their own interpretation of COVID-19 restrictions and broke into Old Trafford to protest against the Glazer family and their decision to join the European Super League. The rearranged game was played on May 13, with Liverpool winning 4-2 to inflict a second successive home defeat inside 48 hours. Those defeats, to Leicester City and Liverpool, barely mattered given United were cruising to second place, a position few fans could have envisaged at the start of that season. There are no trophies for finishing second but Solskjaer and his coaching staff did well to get into that position — and that won him a new contract.
Now results against those two teams really matter. Once the Champions League games are out of the way this week, Liverpool return to Old Trafford. Leicester’s 4-2 win against United on Saturday not only ended a 29-game unbeaten league run, it rocked the support. Again. Although the crowd at games still sing Solskjaer’s name, doubts about the team and the Norwegian are increasing. Support has slipped, and fans openly talk of when he will lose his job and who would replace him — even if there is still no appetite for sacking Solskjaer from the decision-makers.
On the whole, United’s support is gutted that it has come to this. This season was supposed to see more progress and a title challenge, but the team that finished ahead of Liverpool and then bought Jadon Sancho, Raphael Varane and Cristiano Ronaldo have regressed so far. It is disappointing and disheartening as expectations drift. Pay little attention to the online talk — there is no real-life mutiny or protest in the air, just frustration from fans who have been patient and supportive.
It is easy to understand why: four defeats in the last seven have given fans a hangover. Two defeats and a draw in the last three league games hurt, yet the Premier League table doesn’t look as alarming as it did at the beginning of last season or the one before.
A winning start this season saw to that, but fans aren’t stupid. United are not playing well. In the Champions League, a Villarreal side that prevented Solskjaer’s first trophy in May in Gdansk dominated at Old Trafford but lost because of a couple of moments of individual brilliance.
United are performing in passages, but the team has a lack of balance and control of games. Every match feels depressingly similar and United are conceding too many chances and goals — though Leicester were the first team to score more than one against them in the league this season.
They know that teams drop off and try to hit them on the break and with that in mind the team prepared for this in their extensive tactical build-up, yet then got hit – again – by another team dropping off and hitting them on the break. In Leicester’s case, those breaks came worryingly often.
Solskjaer may be a club legend, but he’s not above criticism from fans. Fans are tiring of talk, of trite appeasement from whoever runs the players’ social media accounts talking about bouncing back. There’s an online overreaction whenever United win or lose any game, but this isn’t good enough.
GettyImages-1346918693-scaled-e1634575152730.jpg


United’s players react to Jamie Vardy’s goal on Saturday (Photo: Getty)
So many United players performed poorly at Leicester against a team that had only won two of their league matches so far. Sadly, it wasn’t a surprise. Harry Maguire and Luke Shaw, two of the best players last season and convincing for England at Euro 2020, have been far from that — both hampered by injury. Maguire’s error that preceded Leicester’s equaliser led to some United fans in the away end joking that it was his best performance in a Leicester shirt. Solskjaer knows he got it wrong starting the centre-half when he had been out for several weeks, but took a punt because he felt Eric Bailly was a bigger risk. That’s one reason why he signed Varane.
The anger from Saturday’s heavy defeat will subside by the time the team takes to the field against Atalanta, but the concerns will not go away — including those about whether Ronaldo was the right signing.
The Portugal forward has been a positive influence in the dressing room and has scored five goals, but United look better with Mason Greenwood and Edinson Cavani as strikers rather than the more static Ronaldo. As one of his former team-mates told The Athletic last week: “Wayne (Rooney) and Carlos (Tevez) did a lot of the running for Cristiano when he was here the first time round, so it’s not like his game has changed.”
United need their big-name players to perform. Paul Pogba didn’t against Leicester, losing the ball which led to Leicester’s first substantial attack. Like it or not — and most fans do not — that is why Solskjaer persists with the Fred and Scott McTominay midfield pairing, given they run and fight for every ball. Nobody complains when the team wins with those two in it, but nobody pretends they are as good as past midfield combinations either. But they start because United need protection and cover behind if they are to play a ‘loose’ front four.
United also need their sacred cows, the ‘always starters’, to perform — and not just Shaw and Maguire. Only David de Gea and Greenwood are doing that so far.
It is on the manager and the coaching staff to get them to perform — and it’s to their credit that Solskjaer improved United from a divided mess to runners up. Critics point out that Jose Mourinho got United to second in the season before he was sacked, but Solskjaer definitely improved the mood, the culture in the club, the spirit, the togetherness. It may have looked otherwise at Leicester, but that still hasn’t vanished entirely; there isn’t the same internal fragmentation or division as there was under previous managers.
It’s mostly an honest group of players and coaches, but that statement looks hollow after the all-round failure to perform against a Leicester side now unbeaten in four against United. When fans see that, they wonder about a lack of style, strategy, coaching. That is strongly refuted by those who work with the players on the training ground. It drives them mad that what they see as false narratives are developing about their work.
Take the goal at home to Everton. It was a product of the training ground, yet it gets labelled as a top individual moment rather than a coached goal. Solskjaer would do well to accentuate the work they do more often.
They feel they have had success in turning United around, and that’s one reason they had gone 29 away games unbeaten in the first place. Those coaches and those working with the first team are grafting their backsides off to improve Manchester United, often to the detriment of their family lives, health and social lives. I’ve read the criticism of the coaches and I’ve asked people about them. I consistently get told that the players respect them, their knowledge, compassion, drive, hunger, professionalism and talent.
The team have got a difficult period coming up. Liverpool look streets ahead of United, and their manager is adored by their fans. He is confident and has his club on top of their perch again.
At United, the focus is sharper than ever on Solskjaer and so it should be. He needs to get a tune out of a side which he has had nearly three years to bring together. We’re not at the “three years of excuses — ta ra Fergie” flag stage that was reached under Ferguson in December 1989, but concern is growing.
It is not unfair to judge a manager after almost three years and fans are doing that. It may pit the heart against the head. The doubts about Solskjaer as a manager to bring United back into trophies are more pronounced than ever, but he will still be supported at games. And he needs and appreciates that support.
Ronald Koeman, who won a European Cup for Barcelona, hears his name booed by his fans. Solskjaer doesn’t, but he has to pick things up.
Liverpool fans will arrive back at Old Trafford on Sunday rightly confident about their team. United fans wish they could feel the same.
 
in terms of 'club legend', is Solskjaer any different to say Origi in our side? For years he's has been held in high regard at United, but his cult late goals aren't dissimilar to Divock. Interesting to think about. Obviously he scored more over his career, but its the CL goal that gets talked about more than anything else really!
 
Fernandes has been way more responsible than Solskjaer for any improvement they've made. Putting his nose out of joint already seems to be hurting them and with luck will hurt them more. It's just a question of how much.
 
in terms of 'club legend', is Solskjaer any different to say Origi in our side? For years he's has been held in high regard at United, but his cult late goals aren't dissimilar to Divock. Interesting to think about. Obviously he scored more over his career, but its the CL goal that gets talked about more than anything else really!
Pretty sure Divock has scored bigger goals, but over time Solskjaer was definitely involved more, and scored WAY more goals.- particularly from 96 to 03.
 
Ah come on, Solskjaer was a much better player than Origi. And I'm one of the people that wants a statue of Divock outside the ground and a lifetime contract.
 
More consistent rather than flat out "better" IMHO. The Divock who was really motoring until that animal Funes Mori crocked him in the derby had a better all-round skillset.
 
Match officials for Liverpool v United

16:30 Man Utd v Liverpool
Referee:
Anthony Taylor (pictured). Assistants: Gary Beswick, Lee Betts. Fourth official: Mike Dean.VAR: Stuart Attwell. Assistant VAR: Marc Perry.
 
More consistent rather than flat out "better" IMHO. The Divock who was really motoring until that animal Funes Mori crocked him in the derby had a better all-round skillset.

This is true and goes into the same boat as both Momo Sissoko having his eye kicked out when he was really getting going and that streak of games that Wonderman was actually showing he could play before his leg feel off.

Origi did come back and provide great moments while the other 2 ended up being finished.
 
More consistent rather than flat out "better" IMHO. The Divock who was really motoring until that animal Funes Mori crocked him in the derby had a better all-round skillset.

Well, consistency is one of the metrics that would make someone better or worse
 
Not trying to claim Divvy is 'better', just as a cult hero - which i would say Ole is, rather than a bonafide club legend for his performances. When trying to look at 'which player is this like returning for us as manager'
 
Agreed - their fans all want Zidane, but after spending his life living in Bordeaux, Turin and Madrid, I doubt dodging smackheads in Piccadilly Gardens is on his bucket-list.
I once saw two smacked up looking tramps wanking each other off in Piccadilly Gardens. If only smart phones existed back then… I could have recorded it to keep that treasured memory forever…
 
I once saw two smacked up looking tramps wanking each other off in Piccadilly Gardens. If only smart phones existed back then… I could have recorded it to keep that treasured memory forever…

Were their names Jose and Alex?
 
He's done it again hasn't he?

Looks to heading for the door, before somehow his team turn it around.

It's almost as if they are having too nice a time to want him gone...

"look lads, we can't keep this up or we'll get another arsehole like mourinho - we'd better play this half."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom