Squad list doesn’t translate to success when you are up against three of the best coaches in the world, two better squads and a Liverpool team that as a first team are still miles ahead.
Ole at the wheel 2024
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Do you think we're better than City and Chelsea? I don't, and I'd say United are in with a shout. As are we, but we're banking on a few things, like our injured players returning as good as they were. That's a huge ask. City and Chelsea are the teams to beat for me, they both have talent in abundance, we need a few players.
The thing going against United is Ole, talent wise their squad is pretty excellent, particularly in midfield and attack. We're not "miles ahead" of them by any means. Our first XI isn't miles ahead of them. Like I said, you're deluded if you think that. Our attack is arguably on the decline while they have plenty of depth and quality upfront, which we sorely lack.
Salah is still clearly in top form, but Mane and Firmino have been off the boil for a while, beyond that what do we have? Harvey Elliott who's untested in the Premiership, AOC who's always injured and Jota who has looked great in patches. Compare that to what they have and they definitely come out on top in terms of depth, while quality wise any team that boasts Cavani, Sancho, Fernandes, Martial, Greenwood and Rashford, is going to cause problems for anyone.
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Mark, pl.check your PMs. 🙂
Without injuries we are better imo and by a distance. With a truck load of injuries then we clearly aren’t. The amount of injuries we get this year will decide whether we win things or not.
I can’t see Utd being in with a shout as they have addressed some glaring issues, most notably Pogba and the manager. They’ll flatter to deceive but won’t be in the hunt come May.
I would disagree and say our first 11 injury free is miles ahead and would be confident of beating any team, it’s when we don’t have that that our quality drops off the cliff.
As for our attack, Salah is arguably the best player in the world and easily the best forward in the league. Mane could not be any worse this season and I would imagine will bounce back to being the incredible player he is. Firmino is finished but capable of the odd game of brilliance with Jota and Elliott ready to step up this year.
I still think we have the best attack in the league if we don’t get serious injuries.
Of course we could get a load of injuries and fall away but right now I believe all things considered we are still in a super position to win the league this year along with Chelsea and City.
VVD back will be massive on its own, nevermind Konate, Matip or Gomez.
We're simply not better "by a distance" Pat, you're banking on two permacrocks and one major injury all coming back unscathed. If that's the case then we are better in defence, both teams are light in the middle of the park in terms of numbers, in attack they top us for sheer quality in numbers.
No I’m not. I’m banking on one of VVD and Konate staying fit as Phillips +1 is more than enough.
They have nobody of the quality of Fabhino imo or Henderson for that matter and I think we’ll see Jones go from strength to strength this year. Their midfield has a super soft underbelly.
No injuries and we are talking about arguably the best league side in living memory. We don’t need that to win the league but we certainly can’t afford the insane injury list we had last year. Anywhere towards to the no serious injury side of scale and we’ll be right in the mix. Regardless of any permutation for Utd I don’t see that being the case. They have the mentality anywhere across the team or management to win a title against such strong opponents as ourselves, City and Chelsea.
Ole vs Klopp, Pep and Tuchel is a laughable debate. They are not in the discussion for me. Sack Ole and bring in a top manager and then maybe but I still think they lack the mentality anyway.
Unproven in England yet, he should improve them but then Van Beek should have too.
Yeah I'm with Mark on this one. City are the team to catch, Utd have strengthened and there is no way with two full squads we are better by a distance now.
Say what you want about Ole. He's signing the right players. Not all will work out.. case in point Van de Beek. However same could be said for us in Keita.
Say what you want about Ole. He's signing the right players. Not all will work out.. case in point Van de Beek. However same could be said for us in Keita.
City got about 5 points more last season than they did the season we won it when everyone thought they were shite. They're not great and don't have a striker.
If they get Kane and Grealish, though, different story. If the transfer window shut right now, itd be a decent 3 or 4 horse race, I reckon
If they get Kane and Grealish, though, different story. If the transfer window shut right now, itd be a decent 3 or 4 horse race, I reckon
Good thing managers don't really make a difference
Man Utd under the Glazers – the ridiculously frightening numbers
Date published: Tuesday 4th May 2021 12:19 - Ian Watson
Man Utd have spent more on servicing the Glazers than their squad over the last 15 years…
Whatever you make of the scenes at Old Trafford on Sunday, the numbers behind the Glazers’ ownership of Manchester United make it easy to understand the protestors’ grievances.
Here are some of the eye-watering figures behind the Glazers’ stewardship of United, thanks in part to the wonderful Swiss Ramble, whose delve into the numbers goes much deeper.
£790million – the amount it cost the Glazer family to acquire a controlling stake in United in 2005.
£550million – the total debt immediately loaded on to the club as a result of the Glazers’ takeover. This was made up of £275million of ‘payment in kind’ hedge fund loans at an initial 14.25% interest rate, and £265million of bank loans.
£3.05billion – the club’s current valuation, according to Forbes. Barcelona (£3.5billion), Real Madrid (£3.4billion) and Bayern Munich (33.06billion) are valued higher.
£526million – United remain in debt to the tune of over half a billion pounds, 16 years after the takeover. In the Premier League, only Tottenham have larger debts but at least they have a new stadium to show for it. At Old Trafford, the roof is leaking. Before the Glazers, United had no debts.
£5.9billion – the revenue generated by United in the 15 years up to 2020 under the Glazers’ ownership
£5.4billion – the club’s expenses during the same period, which includes £2.9billion spent on player wages and £1billion on player amortisation.
£467million – total operating profit in 15 years since 2005.
£817million – the total amount paid in interest over the 15-year period up to 2020 to service debts, an average of £54million (or one Fred) per season.
£1.005billion – the net spend on players under the Glazers to 2020. United spent £1.4billion on new arrivals; they made £400million from player sales.
£1.073billion – the total amount spent to finance the Glazers’ ownership in the form of interest payments (£704million), debt repayments (£244million) and dividends (£125million)
£496million – the amount spent on interest payments between 2010 and 2020, more than all the other Premier League clubs combined. United’s total is £356million more than the second-highest amount (Arsenal, £140million)
16 per cent – the share of United’s £6.8billion expenditure spent on financing the debts.
£185million – the amount spent on club infrastructure at Old Trafford and Carrington. Five Premier League clubs, including Brighton, have spent more in the last 10 years.
£22.2million – the average dividend paid per year over the five years from 2016 to 2020.
£336million – the rise in revenue under the Glazers between 2005 and 2020. But Manchester City (£417million) and Liverpool (£370million) have enjoyed bigger growth in the same period.
£94million – the growth in broadcasting revenue, an increase of 204%. But Chelsea (£130million, 247%), Liverpool (£152million, 305%), Manchester City (£166million, 686%) and Tottenham (£107million, 373%) have all enjoyed larger growth in the same period.
£224million – the growth in commercial revenue between 2005 (£55million) and 2020 (£279million). Manchester City have enjoyed the same growth, from £22million to £246million – 1026%
£3million – the negligible growth in commercial revenue from 2017 and 2020. Other big six clubs’ commercial growth over the same period: Tottenham – £86million; Liverpool – £80million; Chelsea – £37million; Man City – £28million; Arsenal – £25million.
£1.1billion – the gap in revenue between United (£5billion) and the Premier League’s next highest earners, Manchester City (£3.9billion), between 2010 and 2020.
£118.1million – the fall in revenue (£509million from £627.1million) up to June 30, 2020.
£23.2million – the annual loss made by United up to June 30, 2020.
£23million – the amount in dividends paid out to shareholders by United, mainly to the six Glazer siblings (around £18.5million), in the same period.
£7billion – according to The Guardian, a valuation of the club the Glazers are keen to achieve in the long-term, more than double its current value. What the f*ck would that look like?
Date published: Tuesday 4th May 2021 12:19 - Ian Watson
Man Utd have spent more on servicing the Glazers than their squad over the last 15 years…
Whatever you make of the scenes at Old Trafford on Sunday, the numbers behind the Glazers’ ownership of Manchester United make it easy to understand the protestors’ grievances.
Here are some of the eye-watering figures behind the Glazers’ stewardship of United, thanks in part to the wonderful Swiss Ramble, whose delve into the numbers goes much deeper.
£790million – the amount it cost the Glazer family to acquire a controlling stake in United in 2005.
£550million – the total debt immediately loaded on to the club as a result of the Glazers’ takeover. This was made up of £275million of ‘payment in kind’ hedge fund loans at an initial 14.25% interest rate, and £265million of bank loans.
£3.05billion – the club’s current valuation, according to Forbes. Barcelona (£3.5billion), Real Madrid (£3.4billion) and Bayern Munich (33.06billion) are valued higher.
£526million – United remain in debt to the tune of over half a billion pounds, 16 years after the takeover. In the Premier League, only Tottenham have larger debts but at least they have a new stadium to show for it. At Old Trafford, the roof is leaking. Before the Glazers, United had no debts.
£5.9billion – the revenue generated by United in the 15 years up to 2020 under the Glazers’ ownership
£5.4billion – the club’s expenses during the same period, which includes £2.9billion spent on player wages and £1billion on player amortisation.
£467million – total operating profit in 15 years since 2005.
£817million – the total amount paid in interest over the 15-year period up to 2020 to service debts, an average of £54million (or one Fred) per season.
£1.005billion – the net spend on players under the Glazers to 2020. United spent £1.4billion on new arrivals; they made £400million from player sales.
£1.073billion – the total amount spent to finance the Glazers’ ownership in the form of interest payments (£704million), debt repayments (£244million) and dividends (£125million)
£496million – the amount spent on interest payments between 2010 and 2020, more than all the other Premier League clubs combined. United’s total is £356million more than the second-highest amount (Arsenal, £140million)
16 per cent – the share of United’s £6.8billion expenditure spent on financing the debts.
£185million – the amount spent on club infrastructure at Old Trafford and Carrington. Five Premier League clubs, including Brighton, have spent more in the last 10 years.
£22.2million – the average dividend paid per year over the five years from 2016 to 2020.
£336million – the rise in revenue under the Glazers between 2005 and 2020. But Manchester City (£417million) and Liverpool (£370million) have enjoyed bigger growth in the same period.
£94million – the growth in broadcasting revenue, an increase of 204%. But Chelsea (£130million, 247%), Liverpool (£152million, 305%), Manchester City (£166million, 686%) and Tottenham (£107million, 373%) have all enjoyed larger growth in the same period.
£224million – the growth in commercial revenue between 2005 (£55million) and 2020 (£279million). Manchester City have enjoyed the same growth, from £22million to £246million – 1026%
£3million – the negligible growth in commercial revenue from 2017 and 2020. Other big six clubs’ commercial growth over the same period: Tottenham – £86million; Liverpool – £80million; Chelsea – £37million; Man City – £28million; Arsenal – £25million.
£1.1billion – the gap in revenue between United (£5billion) and the Premier League’s next highest earners, Manchester City (£3.9billion), between 2010 and 2020.
£118.1million – the fall in revenue (£509million from £627.1million) up to June 30, 2020.
£23.2million – the annual loss made by United up to June 30, 2020.
£23million – the amount in dividends paid out to shareholders by United, mainly to the six Glazer siblings (around £18.5million), in the same period.
£7billion – according to The Guardian, a valuation of the club the Glazers are keen to achieve in the long-term, more than double its current value. What the f*ck would that look like?
Utd are like us in the late 90’s and 00’s plenty of investment but lacked a truly world class manager to win the league.
We didn't have plenty of investment back then, we were slowly slipping and struggling to hang on to the other teams. Collymore was a big signing, but United and then Leeds and then Chelsea started to pave the way for massive spending, we didn't get close to that for a long time. The numbers United have spent are astronomical, it's enough to make it an actual disgrace that they haven't won much of note recently. We weren't spending anything near what United were, then or now. We've spent more under FSG but only thanks to a model that makes us self sufficient, United have been literally ploughing money into the transfer market for three decades. They were in a situation where they were able to spend £30m on one player per Summer and that would be enough. While they were doing that, we were pumping £20m on three hopefuls like Diao, Cheyrou and Diouf. It's nowhere near similar, at all. Again.
I skim read it. So are they gonna do a Leeds or what?
I hope so but it is unlikely.
No, not unless the financial systems that underpin football collapse completely, that or a decade out of he CL would fuck them up properly. Realistically, no they aren't going under and may well be much stronger in a couple of years once the covid crisis is resolved.
Current half a billion debt they are easily able to service based on current revenue.
They will do a Leeds if they increas debt level in an attempt to target the 7bn valuation, but revenue stays at current level or declines.
I remember routinely getting send stats that showed our spending was on par with Utd and still couldn’t win. It was only when Chelsea came along that it became insane. Utd have spent 1b since Ferguson’s retirement without a league title which is delicious and shows how hard it is to get the right manager to get you over the line. It took us 30 years, hopefully Utd never find the right one but I’m
Convinced Ole isn’t it.
No chance sadly.
United massively outspent us and everybody else before Chelsea got the Russian money. 30 million on Ferdinand around 2001, big money for Veron, Van Nistelrooy, Barthez. Even the money spent on the likes of Yorke, Cole and Stam were far higher than anything we were spending on players.
It took them almost as long to replace Matt Busby, and even then Ferguson didn't get off to a flying start, so I'm hoping that bit of history repeats itself.
That said, Sancho and Varane are potentially big signings for them. They're still lacking in CM but, even with Ole in charge, they'll be dangerous. Unfortunately.
Agreed JJ. No matter the manager, any squad already containing Fernandes, Cavani, Martial, Rashford and adding in Sancho & Varane is going to be a threat. Ideally they will be disjointed, but they have enough players who are smart and good enough to create moments of magic.
Pah! We've got Ox as back up striker. Talk about strength in depth.
Sadly yes, they've got a great bunch of players that can outperform all the tactical nativity that Ole has and will hide his incompetence at this level.
Sancho will be great for them. Varane will have to rediscover his 2015-2018 form to be truly great but will be an upgrade on the hopeless Bailly/Lindelof.
Doubt it will be enough to win the league, but they will challenge for most parts of the season.
It pisses me off that they have Greenwood coming through. Would love to have him as our forward in between Mane and Salah. Ah well.
Sancho will be great for them. Varane will have to rediscover his 2015-2018 form to be truly great but will be an upgrade on the hopeless Bailly/Lindelof.
Doubt it will be enough to win the league, but they will challenge for most parts of the season.
It pisses me off that they have Greenwood coming through. Would love to have him as our forward in between Mane and Salah. Ah well.
What I do like about Ox is that he is always looking to make something happen, either trying to make a good pass or by shooting. However I'd rather than option was as a third CM (especially against a parked bus) than in place of a natural striker.
We saw in the game yesterday that he is shit at heading, which is important for us and we've seen a lot of headed goals from tight spaces from Bobby (and also Mane) in the past.
They've assembled a very good mix of options in attack. Rashford, Cavani, Martial, Greenwood, Sancho and Fernandes. The fact that Ox, Origi and Minamino wouldn't get anywhere near their squad tells you how strong it is.
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