No, not really, if Lovren was backup to Matip and VVD, the situation would be much better.
Not Lovren it anymore ?
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It would be better and it would still be one of the worst contract extensions in the history of the Premier League.
I've always fucking hated him and I was livid about the contract extension. Anyone that was happy is a fucking simpleton.
Hyperbole much.
It's always nice to go back to a thread and see your comment was perfect
Both lovren and matip were poor the other day. Are they just really really poor defenders or is part of it them not being the right defenders for the system Klopp wants to play with a risky high line and no DM protection. We make daft unforced errors all the time. They're hardly the best defensive players available, although I'm sure Klopp hinted they were earlier in the year, but I don't think the fact that they're constantly nervous due to our system helps.
Players losing sight of who they should be marking, ball watching, and in Lovren’s case dashing into the opposition half with the danger of a counter attack and trying to head a ball two meters above his head and missing have nothing to do with the system, in my opinion.
They’re just very shit at defending.
Lovren is turd, but benefited from the system at Saints - just as many other average cbs have before and since. We play a system that can expose defenders, even good ones. It's just asking for trouble while we have this mong Lovren playing in that system.
Maybe he's suffering from PTSD. A sudden drop in cortisol levels can often induce short term memory loss.
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At Dortmund Klopp played a 4-2-3-1 with a double pivot of disciplined, tactically aware midfielders, ranging from Bender to Kehl to Sahin to Gundogan. This provided a great base for the likes of Gotze, Reus and co to drive forward and press.
With us he's played a 4-3-3 from the word go, and seems more interested more attack minded midfielders.
His Dortmund model would serve us a whole lot better right now. I'd be tempted to stick Grugic in next to Henderson in a 4-2-3-1 and instruct them both to destroy the space in front of our defense.
With us he's played a 4-3-3 from the word go, and seems more interested more attack minded midfielders.
His Dortmund model would serve us a whole lot better right now. I'd be tempted to stick Grugic in next to Henderson in a 4-2-3-1 and instruct them both to destroy the space in front of our defense.
One of the big problems in midfield is his insistence on playing Henderson and Can together. I don't think they work together in either a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1.
Henderson in particular used to be at his best as a pressing midfielder in a 4-3-3 (I used to like comparing him to Ramires at Chelsea). His injury problems have obviously curtailed that part of his game, but I don't think shifting him to a holding role does the team many favours.
I just don't see what he does well in the holding position - he's not tactically astute or strong enough to be a great DM, and he's not technically good enough to be a deep-lying playmaker. What you basically end up with is an all-rounder playing a specialist's role.
Can on the other hand is someone whose versatility hampers him. While he can occasionally be very good in a more advanced role, he's not consistent enough there and often looks laborious. I actually think his best position is the holding role. His most consistent spells have come in that position, and have also coincided with Klopp's longest winning runs at the club (the Europa League run in 2015-16, and the last third of the 16-17 PL season).
If I were Klopp, I'd make the difficult decision of benching Henderson, and making Can the first choice holding player. The other two midfield slots can be filled by Wijnaldum/Grujic and Coutinho/Lallana. Henderson should be a back-up for the holding position at best.
Henderson in particular used to be at his best as a pressing midfielder in a 4-3-3 (I used to like comparing him to Ramires at Chelsea). His injury problems have obviously curtailed that part of his game, but I don't think shifting him to a holding role does the team many favours.
I just don't see what he does well in the holding position - he's not tactically astute or strong enough to be a great DM, and he's not technically good enough to be a deep-lying playmaker. What you basically end up with is an all-rounder playing a specialist's role.
Can on the other hand is someone whose versatility hampers him. While he can occasionally be very good in a more advanced role, he's not consistent enough there and often looks laborious. I actually think his best position is the holding role. His most consistent spells have come in that position, and have also coincided with Klopp's longest winning runs at the club (the Europa League run in 2015-16, and the last third of the 16-17 PL season).
If I were Klopp, I'd make the difficult decision of benching Henderson, and making Can the first choice holding player. The other two midfield slots can be filled by Wijnaldum/Grujic and Coutinho/Lallana. Henderson should be a back-up for the holding position at best.
"If he hadn't impressed Klopp, he would not have tied him Down on a long contract (or allowed it to happen)? I don't state anywhere if that is a right or wrong decision. He still manage the club and hence have the final saying on how the first team looks?"
"dont think Can is entitled to much more than Lovren. I would put them in exact same wage group. Internationals with same position (not on the field) in the squad. Not the first name on the teamsheet, but in a position to command a first XI place if you just rice your worst Level"
If those are schocking statments to you in any sence you really need to get out more mate.
This.
I agree with the main point about them not playing well together but I would rather have Henderson in the side than Can.
Just pay up his contract expel him from the club and try and pretend he ever existed, the fact that our genius manager perservered with him for so long and awarded him an obscene contract is of far more concern to me.
It's a tough call. Over the last 12 months I'd say Can has put in more decent performances than Henderson but they have both been really poor at times. I'm just not sure about Henderson in a holding role, he's not physical or intelligent enough to be a destroyer and seems to try and play it like Alonso which he's just not capable of doing effectively. Can has the right attributes for the job but seems to lack concentration, he just switches off and allows things to happen that he really shouldn't. I'm not sure if that's confusion from being being moved around in various roles or if he's just too lazy to get it.
It is really concerning how often us regular supporters see things so much earlier and clearer than the experts running our club.
The cunt's spunk. If his shagging's half as bad as his defending, no wonder his Mrs is fucking round. Knowing our luck, she's probably fucking Van Dijk.
Sky just showed the nightmare game v Bournemouth away last season - the one we remember for Karius' hapless display. As bad as the goalie was for the 2nd & 4th goals, the other two featured terrible errors by Lovren and then another one at 3-3 that Karius actually managed to save.
Also, with every goal we had plenty of bodies around the ball but somehow none of them managed a tackle or a block then stood around with their hands in the air after we conceded. When will we ever learn?
Also, with every goal we had plenty of bodies around the ball but somehow none of them managed a tackle or a block then stood around with their hands in the air after we conceded. When will we ever learn?
Not with Klopp in charge sadly.
I love hendo but I agree. He isn't an option for the deepest midfield role and he isn't performing like he did in previous seasons in a more dynamic role further up.
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