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Ming

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redhorizon2

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Reading some tweets and some people are saying he costs us 8 points, which would have given us 4th spot. How much of liability is he?
 
Stats show Simon Mignolet could cost Liverpool a Champions League spot

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Mignolet is often an easy target - but perhaps rightly CREDIT: REUTERS
David James challenges you to a penalty shootout. Get three-four out of five penalties and win an All-New Kia Sportage.
23 APRIL 2016 • 6:21PM
Simon Mignolet has never been the most reliable goalkeeper in the world, but his latest performance might just convince any remaining supporters he has that it is time for Liverpool to make an improvement in goal.
An adept shot-stopper, he is often targeted for criticism given his lack of command of his area, particularly on crosses, and his propensity to make crucial errors could spell the end for his Liverpool career.
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Cisse beats Mignolet to the cross CREDIT: ACTION IMAGES
No player has made more individual errors leading to an opposition goal over the course of the current Premier League season than Mignolet.
That, in itself, is far from good enough for a player at a club like Liverpool, but it gets worse.

Those four errors have come against West Brom, Sunderland, Norwich and, after his latest error this weekend, Newcastle.
That is three of the Premier League's current bottom four, as well as the side in 15th place. And crucially, Liverpool have drawn all four of those matches, dropping eight points.
Of course it is reductive to place all the blame for those dropped points on the Belgian. There are other factors at play in each case, not least the defending, positioning and decision-making of those in front of him, but if you write off his errors this season, Liverpool might well have been challenging Arsenal and Manchester City for fourth place. They are eight points off fourth as things stand.
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Mignolet could do nothing about Newcastle's second CREDIT: GETTY IMAGES
His tame attempt at coming to claim Vurnon Anita's cross at Anfield on Saturday afternoon saw him beaten to the ball by the head of Papiss Demba Cisse early in the second half, and with it, the momentum swung away from his side.
Perhaps Alberto Moreno should have done more to stop the cross. Perhaps his central defenders should have cleared the way for him to get to the ball.
But once Mignolet makes the decision to leave his goal line and take control of the situation, he simply has to deal with the cross. Newcastle went on to equalise and earn a point after Liverpool had led by two goals.
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Klopp was left unimpressed by his team's second half performance CREDIT: ACTION IMAGES
Only four months ago, Liverpool handed Mignolet a new five-year contract, and the keeper was given the backing of his manager Jurgen Klopp.
“It is a good moment to talk about the goalkeepers at Liverpool. I am absolutely satisfied with our goalkeeping situation," the German insisted.
"I am sorry to kill your stories about German goalkeepers and goalkeepers from Stoke. Our goalkeeping situation is a comfortable one and I hope it stays like this."
After Mignolet's latest clanger, Klopp might now be ready to change his mind.
 
How many points has Moreno cost us? Or hapless defending from setpieces? I agree he's a liability at times, but he's only part of the problem and he's saved us points too. Lazy journalism and scapegoating.

We failed to get 4th because we weren't good enough, consistent enough, we had injuries, a new manager, priority switched to cup competition, etc
 
How many points has Moreno cost us? Or hapless defending from setpieces? I agree he's a liability at times, but he's only part of the problem and he's saved us points too. Lazy journalism and scapegoating.

We failed to get 4th because we weren't good enough, consistent enough, we had injuries, a new manager, priority switched to cup competition, etc
That's about the size of it.
 
I think a stat like this is rubbish as it's a team game not an individual one.

Having said that, Ming has proven to be nowhere near reliable enough and needs replacing ASAP
 
of course this Stat is important. It's a fact. he costs us 12-15 points. How many did he save us? Maybe 3?
you can't ignore that

you can't say "We was shit so there you go..."

He cost us 15 points. That's a CL spot right there. And Moreno, probably what, 9 points?

Get your heads out the sand lads. If we had a De Gea type keeper, even our squad would be in the CL this season. The margins are that slim in a very even PL.
 
of course this Stat is important. It's a fact. he costs us 12-15 points. How many did he save us? Maybe 3?
you can't ignore that

you can't say "We was shit so there you go..."

He cost us 15 points. That's a CL spot right there. And Moreno, probably what, 9 points?

Get your heads out the sand lads. If we had a De Gea type keeper, even our squad would be in the CL this season. The margins are that slim in a very even PL.
In your one post he cost us 8 points to a range of 12 to 15 and then eventually costing us 15 points. You don't think you're hyperboling the point? All 8 of them?
 
In your one post he cost us 8 points to a range of 12 to 15 and then eventually costing us 15 points. You don't think you're hyperboling the point? All 8 of them?

no sir... this original post is alleging 8 points, we did a posting a few weeks back that showed it to be 12-15. I can dig it out if you like?

It's all very scientific really. Two sets of damning facts.. take your pick..
 
of course this Stat is important. It's a fact. he costs us 12-15 points. How many did he save us? Maybe 3?
you can't ignore that

you can't say "We was shit so there you go..."

He cost us 15 points. That's a CL spot right there. And Moreno, probably what, 9 points?

Get your heads out the sand lads. If we had a De Gea type keeper, even our squad would be in the CL this season. The margins are that slim in a very even PL.

Did he fuck,

everytime Sahko or Skrtel or Lovren missed a tackle or gave away the ball in the lead up to a goal does that count as points they cost us?

I never once said Ming was great or anything.

He's shite and needs replacing but a stat on points dropped per player is total garbage.

Every time Benteke missed a 1 v1 is that points dropped?
 
The whole stat is just totally subjective.

Let's say he saved once of those howlers, who's to say the opponents wouldn't have scored a minute later?

The only thing that stat can show is errors made by a keeper leading directly to a goal.

Unless every one of those games finished directly after the goal then it proves nothing.

If you want to know if Ming is shite just watch him play for us for a few weeks, you don't need bullshit stats
 
Really? You're having a laugh by suggesting having a dodgy keeper has not cost us a serious amount of points. Surely you're not suggesting otherwise. It's probably the only position on the field where individual error is so costly.

You can go on as many tangents as you want but if we had a better keeper we'd be at least 8 points richer, if not more (I think it's 15 myself). And with a Keeper like DeGea, you can clearly see so many points additional gained, so it might be a 22 point gap if you factor in those DeGea points - a worst case analysis perhaps of Mignolet..

Yes there's lots of ifs and ands. But things could certainly have been different if these errors didn't happen.
 
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Here's what I posed April 25 -



This video clip above shows 12-15 points dropped by the Keeper that this clip creator found alone.

Any games we can attribute to the man where he kept us in the game, so we can have a fuller picture? Anyone? Bueller?

For perspective, those 15 points he cost us is the difference between qualifying for the CL and not. We are 9 points behind forth.

All 15 points would see us in second place in the PL. Just in case some people think we can "afford" the luxury of being nice to this Dracula of a keeper.

imagine a scenario next season where you didn't drop 10 of these 15 points, because you had a great keeper. And imagine you had a striker all year around that would win you some games, and that's about 10-12 additional points from games where we struggle to score.

It's a simplistic analysis, but It's not hard to see we're not that far off. Right there is 22 or so points which would see you top of the league.

First step, new keeper. We can't afford to drop these points because of Mignolet.​
 
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Right. This is a pointless argument.

EVERYONE here agrees that Mignolet has cost us points and we need better.

However, most are of the view that you cannot quantify the points lost or say for certain that we'd be at position X but for him. It's not difficult proposition to accept. Why are we arguing
 
Right. This is a pointless argument.

EVERYONE here agrees that Mignolet has cost us points and we need better.

However, most are of the view that you cannot quantify the points lost or say for certain that we'd be at position X but for him. It's not difficult proposition to accept. Why are we arguing

We're arguing? I thought it was a healthy exchange of views 🙂
 
I don't think anyone is denying the fact he's a liability, but it's hyperbole to say he's the reason we didn't get 4th. There are plenty of games that we've won comfortably, but were cushioned by an early save or early last ditch tackle - would the derby have been so comfortable if Sakho hadn't got that tackle in early doors against Lukaku?

No one has their "heads in the sand". If you ran a poll of positions that need addressing this Summer, the GK and defensive ones would come out on top each time. But there are a myriad of reasons we didn't get 4th. We lost one game we should have been winning because Klopp dropped Ming too.
 
Taking this logic to its extreme, CMs like Lucas don't score goals and don't let them in either.

Ergo, they make absolutely no difference to our final position. He's just as irrelevant as our manager Jurgen Klopp! No wonder he's here year after year., its never his fault.....
 
Taking this logic to its extreme, CMs like Lucas don't score goals and don't let them in either.

Ergo, they make absolutely no difference to our final position. He's just as irrelevant as our manager Jurgen Klopp! No wonder he's here year after year., its never his fault.....

Arn is gonna fuck you over, good and proper. Rosco would probably give you a like though.
 
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