McClaren - clawing his way back

[dee]

Apparently FC Twente have just extended McClaren's contract for a further year. In his first season he took them to 2nd in the league and runners-up in the cup. So far this season they are top.

Seems to be bringing his career back on track after the car crash that was England.

 

[Atlas]

He is still a car crash waiting to happen

 

[vikas]

^ No pun intended

 

[Judge Jules]

I wonder if the European system of having a coach for the tracksuit stuff, and a director of football doing the rest, suits him better than the British system of having a manager with a foot in each camp. Even in this country he was a well respected coach, but he's just one of many such individuals who've failed to take the step up to management itself, in this country at any rate.

I admire the way he's come back and done well over there, but I wouldn't employ him in the English game now. His coaching credentials are more than respectable but I'd be worried about whether he'd be content as a no.2 to someone else, and I wouldn't let him anywhere near a manager's job.

 

[Richey]

McClaren gets a bit of a bad press. I'm not saying he's a great manager because he clearly isn't but he's not a walking disaster area either.

The reason he has become a figure of fun appear to be because he fucked up the England job and because of that embarrassing interview he did when he went to Holland.

The latter is what it is, embarrassing, but the former is no reason to write someone off completely and its not a trend that is exclusive to him. Taylor, Hoddle, Keegan and Eriksson also didn't do so well with England, but it doesn't make them bad managers. Its not an easy job because the expectation is so absurdly high and the gutter press almost seem to WANT a manager to fuck up.
What you have to remember is that these guys, like McClaren must have had a good reputation before being given the England manager job.

McClaren is slightly different in that noone expected a great deal from him even at the start, and his reputation was built more as a coach than a manager (as Jules has rightly pointed out) so he was fighting a losing battle to an extent, but put yourself in his position, would you turn down the England manager job?

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36767.msg972710#msg972710 date=1256667266]
I wonder if the European system of having a coach for the tracksuit stuff, and a director of football doing the rest, suits him better than the British system of having a manager with a foot in each camp. Even in this country he was a well respected coach, but he's just one of many such individuals who've failed to take the step up to management itself, in this country at any rate.

I admire the way he's come back and done well over there, but I wouldn't employ him in the English game now. His coaching credentials are more than respectable but I'd be worried about whether he'd be content as a no.2 to someone else, and I wouldn't let him anywhere near a manager's job.
[/quote]

Any system that wrestles some degree of control from him would have to be in his best interests.

 

[FoxForceFive]

I ish doing vell vith FC Twente, no?

 

[Bradley]

Good post by Richey. I agree with everything you have said there.

http://www.john-warren.co.uk/partridge/images/bouncingback.jpg

Edit.
Ok, I can't work out how to put images up anymore.

 

[Squiggles]

He couldn't get the greatest England team of a generation qualified for the European Championships.

Pitting himself against no marks in the Dutch league is about his level.

 

[RealRedBlood]

He has been brilliant for Twente it has to be said. 2nd last season and 1st at the moment ahead of the likes of PSV, Feyenoord & Ajax.

 

[keniget]

He was shocking for England and I'm sorry, but you don't get to just gloss over their 'Dutch' interview. That was sheer lunacy.

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=36767.msg973053#msg973053 date=1256712228]
He was shocking for England and I'm sorry, but you don't get to just gloss over their 'Dutch' interview. That was sheer lunacy.

[/quote]

Precisely Ken. Any time I hear his name I imagine him talking in Dutch 'Allo Allo' style.

He will forever be associated with that interview.

 

[Ryan]

Were it not for his stint in charge of England, the FA would never have bitten the bullet and splashed out on someone like Capello.

Be grateful for him and his umbrella Englishers.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=36767.msg973075#msg973075 date=1256719538]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36767.msg973053#msg973053 date=1256712228]
He was shocking for England and I'm sorry, but you don't get to just gloss over their 'Dutch' interview. That was sheer lunacy.

[/quote]

Precisely Ken. Any time I hear his name I imagine him talking in Dutch 'Allo Allo' style.

He will forever be associated with that interview.
[/quote]

Everyone who refers to that interview seems to think McClaren adopted a Dutch accent on purpose. That is a possibility, but I don't buy it. Based on a good few years' experience of studying languages and living in the countries in which they're spoken, I reckon it's at least equally possible that he did it without any conscious intention after hearing everyone around him speak English that way for a while. You'd be surprised how hard it can be NOT to copy what you hear all around you when you're immersed in it to that extent.

 

[dee]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36767.msg973240#msg973240 date=1256727348]
Everyone who refers to that interview seems to think McClaren adopted a Dutch accent on purpose. That is a possibility, but I don't buy it. Based on a good few years' experience of studying languages and living in the countries in which they're spoken, I reckon it's at least equally possible that he did it without any conscious intention after hearing everyone around him speak English that way for a while. You'd be surprised how hard it can be NOT to copy what you hear all around you when you're immersed in it to that extent.
[/quote]

I worked in Utrecht for 13 months and never managed to overcome my ability to speak English with a Northern accent. Ditto for the 6 months in Basel and 2.5 years in the Ruhr. Nor did I ever come across anyone that did.

I do, however, remember a school friend that went to live in the states for a year and managed to come back a yank. I suspect that was more all about, look at me than accent transference.

He was just being a dickhead

 

[Stulikesdrums]

I have never seen that interview.
I have heard about it many times, is it worth watching?

 

[dee]

Schteve's interview

Shteeve Mclaren

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Dee link=topic=36767.msg973245#msg973245 date=1256727787]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36767.msg973240#msg973240 date=1256727348]
Everyone who refers to that interview seems to think McClaren adopted a Dutch accent on purpose. That is a possibility, but I don't buy it. Based on a good few years' experience of studying languages and living in the countries in which they're spoken, I reckon it's at least equally possible that he did it without any conscious intention after hearing everyone around him speak English that way for a while. You'd be surprised how hard it can be NOT to copy what you hear all around you when you're immersed in it to that extent.
[/quote]

I worked in Utrecht for 13 months and never managed to overcome my ability to speak English with a Northern accent. Ditto for the 6 months in Basel and 2.5 years in the Ruhr. Nor did I ever come across anyone that did.

I do, however, remember a school friend that went to live in the states for a year and managed to come back a yank. I suspect that was more all about, look at me than accent transference.

He was just being a dickhead
[/quote]

These things do vary from one individual to another. Those of us who naturally do adopt the accents we hear around us don't even need to go abroad for it to happen. At the start of my career I worked in Bristol for a couple of years and then came back to the Midlands with more than a trace of "Bristle" twang, which I never realised I'd developed till people up here pointed it out and which disappeared pretty quickly once I was no longer surrounded by it on a daily basis. If McClaren has the same tendency, it would have the same result. We just don't know either way.

 

[gkmacca]

He was a very good coach. That was his forte. I doubt he'll ever be a very good manager. But as a linguist he's a genius. To actually use Dutch syntax without using Dutch words - well, that's positively ingenious.

 

[Judge Jules]

Haha. A penny for his thoughts when anyone says "je kunt" (i.e."you can&quot😉.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36767.msg973270#msg973270 date=1256730353]
[quote author=Dee link=topic=36767.msg973245#msg973245 date=1256727787]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36767.msg973240#msg973240 date=1256727348]
Everyone who refers to that interview seems to think McClaren adopted a Dutch accent on purpose. That is a possibility, but I don't buy it. Based on a good few years' experience of studying languages and living in the countries in which they're spoken, I reckon it's at least equally possible that he did it without any conscious intention after hearing everyone around him speak English that way for a while. You'd be surprised how hard it can be NOT to copy what you hear all around you when you're immersed in it to that extent.
[/quote]

I worked in Utrecht for 13 months and never managed to overcome my ability to speak English with a Northern accent. Ditto for the 6 months in Basel and 2.5 years in the Ruhr. Nor did I ever come across anyone that did.

I do, however, remember a school friend that went to live in the states for a year and managed to come back a yank. I suspect that was more all about, look at me than accent transference.

He was just being a dickhead
[/quote]

These things do vary from one individual to another. Those of us who naturally do adopt the accents we hear around us don't even need to go abroad for it to happen. At the start of my career I worked in Bristol for a couple of years and then came back to the Midlands with more than a trace of "Bristle" twang, which I never realised I'd developed till people up here pointed it out and which disappeared pretty quickly once I was no longer surrounded by it on a daily basis. If McClaren has the same tendency, it would have the same result. We just don't know either way.
[/quote]

My little brother plays Xbox online pretty much every waking hour of the day. Most of the boys he 'co-ops' with are Americans, and he is forever speaking to them in an American accent, with no trace of mockery at all. It does my head in whenever I hear it. I suppose it's entirely possible that people feel the need to soften their own accent and perhaps to some extent even 'merge' it, in accordance with the language of the people they're conversing with.

Although in Steve McClaren's case, I suspect it's because he's a hapless moron.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Bradleme link=topic=36767.msg973014#msg973014 date=1256692624]
Good post by Richey. I agree with everything you have said there.

Edit.
Ok, I can't work out how to put images up anymore.
[/quote]

Post the link to image and click on the image button. Simples innit?

 

[LarryHagman]

I don't actually agree that Sven didn't do that well. He got England to the quarters of every tourno if I'm not mistaken. Seeing as they aren't any better than a top 8 team, that's not really a failing.

 

[Judge Jules]

He's in the top half of the table of England managers for win percentages. Space Cadet Hoddle, Alf Ramsey and Dong Revie are top with just over 60%. Poor old Kevin Keegan is bottom with less than 40.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

And Howard Wilkinson with zero 😉

 

[Bradley]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=36767.msg973301#msg973301 date=1256733600]
[quote author=Bradleme link=topic=36767.msg973014#msg973014 date=1256692624]
Good post by Richey. I agree with everything you have said there.

Edit.
Ok, I can't work out how to put images up anymore.
[/quote]

Post the link to image and click on the image button. Simples innit?
[/quote]

 

[LarryHagman]

I actually felt a bit sorry for McLaren. He was shoehorned into the job as the 'English alternative' presumably because he knew the players/system and the players liked him. He was just horribly out of his depth. There's nothing wrong with being a good coach but not a good Manager, football needs both. The finger should have been pointed at Barwick.

 

[keniget]

Isn't an international manager more or less a coach anyways?

 

[Squiggles]

I know he's not too bad; guiding a team of Boro's calibre to a Uefa Cup final is worthy of credit and you only have to look at them now to see he was doing a decent(ish) job there.

But still, cunt.

And I expect a lot of PL chairmen feel the same!