"Lucas is a good player"
Mascherano non-committal on Liverpool future
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[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37825.msg1011475#msg1011475 date=1260485881]
I guess I see 30M for a defensive midfielder that we've proven we can play without ( we won a champions league without him) is a super deal. [/quote]
But we won the Champions League without a world class striker (so would you sell Torres for 70 mill?) and without a hard working dutchman (so would you sell for 10 mill?) ... I don't think you can make that 'we've proven we can play without' arguement based on a tourney where everything went right for us - no matter who was playing ...
I guess I see 30M for a defensive midfielder that we've proven we can play without ( we won a champions league without him) is a super deal. [/quote]
But we won the Champions League without a world class striker (so would you sell Torres for 70 mill?) and without a hard working dutchman (so would you sell for 10 mill?) ... I don't think you can make that 'we've proven we can play without' arguement based on a tourney where everything went right for us - no matter who was playing ...
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=37825.msg1011604#msg1011604 date=1260519138]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37825.msg1011475#msg1011475 date=1260485881]
I guess I see 30M for a defensive midfielder that we've proven we can play without ( we won a champions league without him) is a super deal. [/quote]
But we won the Champions League without a world class striker (so would you sell Torres for 70 mill?) and without a hard working dutchman (so would you sell for 10 mill?) ... I don't think you can make that 'we've proven we can play without' arguement based on a tourney where everything went right for us - no matter who was playing ...
[/quote]
Well, we did win the Champs League thanks to a world class defensive midfielder.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37825.msg1011475#msg1011475 date=1260485881]
I guess I see 30M for a defensive midfielder that we've proven we can play without ( we won a champions league without him) is a super deal. [/quote]
But we won the Champions League without a world class striker (so would you sell Torres for 70 mill?) and without a hard working dutchman (so would you sell for 10 mill?) ... I don't think you can make that 'we've proven we can play without' arguement based on a tourney where everything went right for us - no matter who was playing ...
[/quote]
Well, we did win the Champs League thanks to a world class defensive midfielder.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=37825.msg1011616#msg1011616 date=1260522192]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=37825.msg1011604#msg1011604 date=1260519138]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37825.msg1011475#msg1011475 date=1260485881]
I guess I see 30M for a defensive midfielder that we've proven we can play without ( we won a champions league without him) is a super deal. [/quote]
But we won the Champions League without a world class striker (so would you sell Torres for 70 mill?) and without a hard working dutchman (so would you sell for 10 mill?) ... I don't think you can make that 'we've proven we can play without' arguement based on a tourney where everything went right for us - no matter who was playing ...
[/quote]
Well, we did win the Champs League thanks to a world class defensive midfielder.
[/quote]
Yah ...
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=37825.msg1011604#msg1011604 date=1260519138]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37825.msg1011475#msg1011475 date=1260485881]
I guess I see 30M for a defensive midfielder that we've proven we can play without ( we won a champions league without him) is a super deal. [/quote]
But we won the Champions League without a world class striker (so would you sell Torres for 70 mill?) and without a hard working dutchman (so would you sell for 10 mill?) ... I don't think you can make that 'we've proven we can play without' arguement based on a tourney where everything went right for us - no matter who was playing ...
[/quote]
Well, we did win the Champs League thanks to a world class defensive midfielder.
[/quote]
Yah ...
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37825.msg1011501#msg1011501 date=1260487242]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=37825.msg1011488#msg1011488 date=1260486490]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37825.msg1011440#msg1011440 date=1260484158]
2+2=157 eh?
Accepting 30M odd for a defensive midfielder doesn't automatically make you a selling club Ken.
Beckham - 25M
Vieira - 16M
Anelka - 21M
etc etc etc
Sometimes the money on offer is too good, and in a lot of instances, you can use that cash to go and buy someone as good for cheaper, or just plain better.
We're not talking about someone like Reina, who would be a fucking nightmare to replace. This is a defensive midfielder, and I could name half a dozen off the top of my head who'd do an equally good job.
Mascherano's a good player, and is vital at times, but we've proven good enough without him on many occassions, and I think if 30M odd is on the table for someone who, let's be honest, would probably prefer to play elsewhere in the long-term then we should take it.
[/quote]
I don't think Masher is as important as JJ suggests - he certainly isn't as important to us as Alonso was - however there seems to be growing support for the notion that Masher's role in our side is rather trivial and I'm not quite sure why. Maybe it's because we're so shit at the moment or most likely because of the rumours he wants to leave... either way I have to disagree.
Who are all these players that would easily replace him? There aren't many midfielders available who are at his level - and I'll say the same thing I said in the summer about Alonso - and if there are, why would be able to demand 30M for him?
And more importantly, our midfield lacks leadership as it is. Alonso, whose defensive abilities were hugely underrated, had it. Masher has shown in recent weeks that when on form, he has it. Aquilani? I don't know... he always had De Rossi alongside him and Lucas is a lost cause in this respect. Our midfield has been diabolical this season and I would like to see us improve it rather than let another of it's lynchpins go.
If he desperately wants to go or we desperately need the money, that's another story, but then that'd bring us back to my first post - we would not be selling from a position of strength.
[/quote]
I'm not suggesting his role in the side is "trivial", although I doubt you were inferring I was to be fair. He's an important player, and as I've alluded to - is vital in some games.
As mentioned earlier, there are parts to his game that irk the shit out of me - he gives the ball away too much (partly due to not having an Alonso alongisde him now to dictate the play), he commits far too many fouls, and he dives in way too much when all he has to to is stand up and negate (he could have learned a lot from Didi in that respect). But no footballer's perfect, and whatever deficiencies he has in his game are outweighed by what else he brings us.
I suppose to sum up, I don't think he's anywhere near as vital to us as say Reina, Alonso, Gerrard, Torres, Carra - for a variety of reasons, and unlike many of those players, he could be replaced easier than say Torres or Reina.
On top of that his supposed wantaway attitude has to be taken into consideration. I don't think his most ardent supporter really see's him with us in the longterm, so if he's at the height of his value now then we should take it.
In my opinion, of course.
[/quote]
He is not perfect, and those idiosyncrasies make him the player he is, but I suspect Mascherano's passing stats stand up to scrutiny with the very best. I also suspect he is in the top tacklers in the league, ergo he is a fantastic defensive midfield player and that is why someone is willing to pay over £30m pounds for him.
We did not think Xabi's departure would affect us to the extent it has and that could well be the same for Mascher.
I think it is academic, as sadly due to his wifes inability to settle, he will be off sooner rather than later,
regards
[quote author=keniget link=topic=37825.msg1011488#msg1011488 date=1260486490]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37825.msg1011440#msg1011440 date=1260484158]
2+2=157 eh?
Accepting 30M odd for a defensive midfielder doesn't automatically make you a selling club Ken.
Beckham - 25M
Vieira - 16M
Anelka - 21M
etc etc etc
Sometimes the money on offer is too good, and in a lot of instances, you can use that cash to go and buy someone as good for cheaper, or just plain better.
We're not talking about someone like Reina, who would be a fucking nightmare to replace. This is a defensive midfielder, and I could name half a dozen off the top of my head who'd do an equally good job.
Mascherano's a good player, and is vital at times, but we've proven good enough without him on many occassions, and I think if 30M odd is on the table for someone who, let's be honest, would probably prefer to play elsewhere in the long-term then we should take it.
[/quote]
I don't think Masher is as important as JJ suggests - he certainly isn't as important to us as Alonso was - however there seems to be growing support for the notion that Masher's role in our side is rather trivial and I'm not quite sure why. Maybe it's because we're so shit at the moment or most likely because of the rumours he wants to leave... either way I have to disagree.
Who are all these players that would easily replace him? There aren't many midfielders available who are at his level - and I'll say the same thing I said in the summer about Alonso - and if there are, why would be able to demand 30M for him?
And more importantly, our midfield lacks leadership as it is. Alonso, whose defensive abilities were hugely underrated, had it. Masher has shown in recent weeks that when on form, he has it. Aquilani? I don't know... he always had De Rossi alongside him and Lucas is a lost cause in this respect. Our midfield has been diabolical this season and I would like to see us improve it rather than let another of it's lynchpins go.
If he desperately wants to go or we desperately need the money, that's another story, but then that'd bring us back to my first post - we would not be selling from a position of strength.
[/quote]
I'm not suggesting his role in the side is "trivial", although I doubt you were inferring I was to be fair. He's an important player, and as I've alluded to - is vital in some games.
As mentioned earlier, there are parts to his game that irk the shit out of me - he gives the ball away too much (partly due to not having an Alonso alongisde him now to dictate the play), he commits far too many fouls, and he dives in way too much when all he has to to is stand up and negate (he could have learned a lot from Didi in that respect). But no footballer's perfect, and whatever deficiencies he has in his game are outweighed by what else he brings us.
I suppose to sum up, I don't think he's anywhere near as vital to us as say Reina, Alonso, Gerrard, Torres, Carra - for a variety of reasons, and unlike many of those players, he could be replaced easier than say Torres or Reina.
On top of that his supposed wantaway attitude has to be taken into consideration. I don't think his most ardent supporter really see's him with us in the longterm, so if he's at the height of his value now then we should take it.
In my opinion, of course.
[/quote]
He is not perfect, and those idiosyncrasies make him the player he is, but I suspect Mascherano's passing stats stand up to scrutiny with the very best. I also suspect he is in the top tacklers in the league, ergo he is a fantastic defensive midfield player and that is why someone is willing to pay over £30m pounds for him.
We did not think Xabi's departure would affect us to the extent it has and that could well be the same for Mascher.
I think it is academic, as sadly due to his wifes inability to settle, he will be off sooner rather than later,
regards
S
Squiggles
Guest
I'd miss 'JAVVVvvIER MASCHERANO' booming out of every club whenever the white stripes came on.
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=37825.msg1011203#msg1011203 date=1260463475]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=37825.msg1011173#msg1011173 date=1260461569]
Exactly. Offers nothing at home against the other top teams, Mr.V? Go tell that to the Mancs, whose midfield Mascher chewed up at Anfield last season. The way you and some others dismiss the games against those top teams, in which Mascher is absolutely crucial, anyone would think we could easily afford to lose them.
Besides, even the "cannon fodder" have been causing us plenty of problems lately. Goodness only knows how many more points we'd have dropped in those games without Mascher in front of that stuttering defence, Daniel "hospital backpass" Agger very much included.
Toying with ideas of Mascher being dispensable might make some sense if we were flying and could afford to rely on our attacking strength to sweep other teams aside. We are way, WAY short of that level at the moment and losing our midfield mainstay would not help, not one tiny bit. Hands up those who think we're missing Alonso - well, so do I, but we'd miss Mascher AT LEAST as much.
[/quote]
He's just about the best player around at what he does JJ. I'm amazed that some people still think he should be dropped from the team for certain games.
[/quote]
I'm with these guys.
And you just know that Lucas / Aquilani will be our midfield if he leaves. Probably with Plessis as back up :'(
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=37825.msg1011173#msg1011173 date=1260461569]
Exactly. Offers nothing at home against the other top teams, Mr.V? Go tell that to the Mancs, whose midfield Mascher chewed up at Anfield last season. The way you and some others dismiss the games against those top teams, in which Mascher is absolutely crucial, anyone would think we could easily afford to lose them.
Besides, even the "cannon fodder" have been causing us plenty of problems lately. Goodness only knows how many more points we'd have dropped in those games without Mascher in front of that stuttering defence, Daniel "hospital backpass" Agger very much included.
Toying with ideas of Mascher being dispensable might make some sense if we were flying and could afford to rely on our attacking strength to sweep other teams aside. We are way, WAY short of that level at the moment and losing our midfield mainstay would not help, not one tiny bit. Hands up those who think we're missing Alonso - well, so do I, but we'd miss Mascher AT LEAST as much.
[/quote]
He's just about the best player around at what he does JJ. I'm amazed that some people still think he should be dropped from the team for certain games.
[/quote]
I'm with these guys.
And you just know that Lucas / Aquilani will be our midfield if he leaves. Probably with Plessis as back up :'(
At the risk of opening a can of worms, I think the nostalgia regarding Xabi is a bit ott. Sure, we've suffered in his absence this season, but that's as much to do with Rafa's decision to replace him with an injured Aquilani leaving us with a Lucas/Masher CM partnership. If Aquilani had been fit from the start or Rafa had brought someone in to play the Gerrard role we might not be wistfully mourning Xabi's departure so acutely. Moreover, our current troubles cannot be solely attributed to the loss of Xabi (injuries to Gerrard/Torres/Agger, loss of form of Kuyt/Carra, collective loss of confidence etc).
Having watched Xabi get wholly overrun in midfield against Barca the other day, lacking the pace to keep within a couple of yards of Iniesta et al, I was reminded of his shortcomings. Perhaps without a "Masher" alongside him he too is suffering? He didn't look anything like a 30m player that day.
Having watched Xabi get wholly overrun in midfield against Barca the other day, lacking the pace to keep within a couple of yards of Iniesta et al, I was reminded of his shortcomings. Perhaps without a "Masher" alongside him he too is suffering? He didn't look anything like a 30m player that day.
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=37825.msg1011761#msg1011761 date=1260535080]
At the risk of opening a can of worms, I think the nostalgia regarding Xabi is a bit ott. Sure, we've suffered in his absence this season, but that's as much to do with Rafa's decision to replace him with an injured Aquilani leaving us with a Lucas/Masher CM partnership. If Aquilani had been fit from the start or Rafa had brought someone in to play the Gerrard role we might not be wistfully mourning Xabi's departure so acutely. Moreover, our current troubles cannot be solely attributed to the loss of Xabi (injuries to Gerrard/Torres/Agger, loss of form of Kuyt/Carra, collective loss of confidence etc).
Having watched Xabi get wholly overrun in midfield against Barca the other day, lacking the pace to keep within a couple of yards of Iniesta et al, I was reminded of his shortcomings. Perhaps without a "Masher" alongside him he too is suffering? He didn't look anything like a 30m player that day.
[/quote]
This is the most sensible and accurate post that has graced these forums for months now.
At the risk of opening a can of worms, I think the nostalgia regarding Xabi is a bit ott. Sure, we've suffered in his absence this season, but that's as much to do with Rafa's decision to replace him with an injured Aquilani leaving us with a Lucas/Masher CM partnership. If Aquilani had been fit from the start or Rafa had brought someone in to play the Gerrard role we might not be wistfully mourning Xabi's departure so acutely. Moreover, our current troubles cannot be solely attributed to the loss of Xabi (injuries to Gerrard/Torres/Agger, loss of form of Kuyt/Carra, collective loss of confidence etc).
Having watched Xabi get wholly overrun in midfield against Barca the other day, lacking the pace to keep within a couple of yards of Iniesta et al, I was reminded of his shortcomings. Perhaps without a "Masher" alongside him he too is suffering? He didn't look anything like a 30m player that day.
[/quote]
This is the most sensible and accurate post that has graced these forums for months now.
What kind of place would the world be without hysterical overreaction and hyperbole?
It would be the worst place ever, that's what! Like Hell x a billion
It would be the worst place ever, that's what! Like Hell x a billion
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=37825.msg1011765#msg1011765 date=1260535176]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=37825.msg1011761#msg1011761 date=1260535080]
At the risk of opening a can of worms, I think the nostalgia regarding Xabi is a bit ott. Sure, we've suffered in his absence this season, but that's as much to do with Rafa's decision to replace him with an injured Aquilani leaving us with a Lucas/Masher CM partnership. If Aquilani had been fit from the start or Rafa had brought someone in to play the Gerrard role we might not be wistfully mourning Xabi's departure so acutely. Moreover, our current troubles cannot be solely attributed to the loss of Xabi (injuries to Gerrard/Torres/Agger, loss of form of Kuyt/Carra, collective loss of confidence etc).
Having watched Xabi get wholly overrun in midfield against Barca the other day, lacking the pace to keep within a couple of yards of Iniesta et al, I was reminded of his shortcomings. Perhaps without a "Masher" alongside him he too is suffering? He didn't look anything like a 30m player that day.
[/quote]
This is the most sensible and accurate post that has graced these forums for months now.
[/quote]
It's a good post, as per from Buddha, but I don't altogether agree with it. Even if Aquilani had been fit from the start, he'd still have had to bed in properly. In addition to the fact that he's new to this country as well as the team he's also not a clone of Alonso in terms of playing style, so there would have been (and there still will be) adjustments to make in that respect too. Of course it's true to say that Alonso's absence hasn't been the only reason for our wobbly season thus far, but I don't recall anyone claiming otherwise, and none of this alters the fact that there's been a whopping great Alonso-shaped hole in our midfield this season, which has been a major stumbling-block for us.
As for Alonso's form for Madrid compared to when he played for us - by the latter part of last season our team had really grown into Rafa's preferred style and line-up and was playing THE best football in the Prem, individually and collectively. Alonso was a big part of that, but he benefited from it as well as contributing to it, and therefore was always likely to suffer too when he disrupted it last summer. Cliche though it may be - if it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=37825.msg1011761#msg1011761 date=1260535080]
At the risk of opening a can of worms, I think the nostalgia regarding Xabi is a bit ott. Sure, we've suffered in his absence this season, but that's as much to do with Rafa's decision to replace him with an injured Aquilani leaving us with a Lucas/Masher CM partnership. If Aquilani had been fit from the start or Rafa had brought someone in to play the Gerrard role we might not be wistfully mourning Xabi's departure so acutely. Moreover, our current troubles cannot be solely attributed to the loss of Xabi (injuries to Gerrard/Torres/Agger, loss of form of Kuyt/Carra, collective loss of confidence etc).
Having watched Xabi get wholly overrun in midfield against Barca the other day, lacking the pace to keep within a couple of yards of Iniesta et al, I was reminded of his shortcomings. Perhaps without a "Masher" alongside him he too is suffering? He didn't look anything like a 30m player that day.
[/quote]
This is the most sensible and accurate post that has graced these forums for months now.
[/quote]
It's a good post, as per from Buddha, but I don't altogether agree with it. Even if Aquilani had been fit from the start, he'd still have had to bed in properly. In addition to the fact that he's new to this country as well as the team he's also not a clone of Alonso in terms of playing style, so there would have been (and there still will be) adjustments to make in that respect too. Of course it's true to say that Alonso's absence hasn't been the only reason for our wobbly season thus far, but I don't recall anyone claiming otherwise, and none of this alters the fact that there's been a whopping great Alonso-shaped hole in our midfield this season, which has been a major stumbling-block for us.
As for Alonso's form for Madrid compared to when he played for us - by the latter part of last season our team had really grown into Rafa's preferred style and line-up and was playing THE best football in the Prem, individually and collectively. Alonso was a big part of that, but he benefited from it as well as contributing to it, and therefore was always likely to suffer too when he disrupted it last summer. Cliche though it may be - if it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=37825.msg1011761#msg1011761 date=1260535080]
Having watched Xabi get wholly overrun in midfield against Barca the other day, lacking the pace to keep within a couple of yards of Iniesta et al, I was reminded of his shortcomings. Perhaps without a "Masher" alongside him he too is suffering? He didn't look anything like a 30m player that day.
[/quote]
Real had a few good chances on the counter attack. Either way, Barca almost always have the lions share of possession and when you consider the fact that Real are still bedding in a new team and manager and are set up differently, it's the wrong time to be judging him at his new club.
Having watched Xabi get wholly overrun in midfield against Barca the other day, lacking the pace to keep within a couple of yards of Iniesta et al, I was reminded of his shortcomings. Perhaps without a "Masher" alongside him he too is suffering? He didn't look anything like a 30m player that day.
[/quote]
Real had a few good chances on the counter attack. Either way, Barca almost always have the lions share of possession and when you consider the fact that Real are still bedding in a new team and manager and are set up differently, it's the wrong time to be judging him at his new club.
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=37825.msg1011765#msg1011765 date=1260535176]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=37825.msg1011761#msg1011761 date=1260535080]
At the risk of opening a can of worms, I think the nostalgia regarding Xabi is a bit ott. Sure, we've suffered in his absence this season, but that's as much to do with Rafa's decision to replace him with an injured Aquilani leaving us with a Lucas/Masher CM partnership. If Aquilani had been fit from the start or Rafa had brought someone in to play the Gerrard role we might not be wistfully mourning Xabi's departure so acutely. Moreover, our current troubles cannot be solely attributed to the loss of Xabi (injuries to Gerrard/Torres/Agger, loss of form of Kuyt/Carra, collective loss of confidence etc).
Having watched Xabi get wholly overrun in midfield against Barca the other day, lacking the pace to keep within a couple of yards of Iniesta et al, I was reminded of his shortcomings. Perhaps without a "Masher" alongside him he too is suffering? He didn't look anything like a 30m player that day.
[/quote]
This is the most sensible and accurate post that has graced these forums for months now.
[/quote]
No it isn't, its a load of bollocks.
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=37825.msg1011761#msg1011761 date=1260535080]
At the risk of opening a can of worms, I think the nostalgia regarding Xabi is a bit ott. Sure, we've suffered in his absence this season, but that's as much to do with Rafa's decision to replace him with an injured Aquilani leaving us with a Lucas/Masher CM partnership. If Aquilani had been fit from the start or Rafa had brought someone in to play the Gerrard role we might not be wistfully mourning Xabi's departure so acutely. Moreover, our current troubles cannot be solely attributed to the loss of Xabi (injuries to Gerrard/Torres/Agger, loss of form of Kuyt/Carra, collective loss of confidence etc).
Having watched Xabi get wholly overrun in midfield against Barca the other day, lacking the pace to keep within a couple of yards of Iniesta et al, I was reminded of his shortcomings. Perhaps without a "Masher" alongside him he too is suffering? He didn't look anything like a 30m player that day.
[/quote]
This is the most sensible and accurate post that has graced these forums for months now.
[/quote]
No it isn't, its a load of bollocks.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37825.msg1011456#msg1011456 date=1260484802]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37825.msg1011444#msg1011444 date=1260484418]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37825.msg1011441#msg1011441 date=1260484199]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37825.msg1011419#msg1011419 date=1260482950]
You'd think Mascherano was Lionel Messi the way some of you go on.
If we can get 30M for a defensive midfielder, it'd be the deal of the century.
[/quote]
Yes, if this season has shown anything, it's that its very easy to replace a regularly starting CM.
[/quote]
We should never sell anyone again ever then.
[/quote]
Yea, that's the logical extension of not wanting to sell a known good in a position we are now weak at.
[/quote]
hhaha...
indeed.
selling your best players isnt exactly high on my list of desires for the future. I take ryans points i just think he is underestimating Mash just as many did with Alonso.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37825.msg1011444#msg1011444 date=1260484418]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37825.msg1011441#msg1011441 date=1260484199]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37825.msg1011419#msg1011419 date=1260482950]
You'd think Mascherano was Lionel Messi the way some of you go on.
If we can get 30M for a defensive midfielder, it'd be the deal of the century.
[/quote]
Yes, if this season has shown anything, it's that its very easy to replace a regularly starting CM.
[/quote]
We should never sell anyone again ever then.
[/quote]
Yea, that's the logical extension of not wanting to sell a known good in a position we are now weak at.
[/quote]
hhaha...
indeed.
selling your best players isnt exactly high on my list of desires for the future. I take ryans points i just think he is underestimating Mash just as many did with Alonso.
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=37825.msg1011824#msg1011824 date=1260542719]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=37825.msg1011765#msg1011765 date=1260535176]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=37825.msg1011761#msg1011761 date=1260535080]
At the risk of opening a can of worms, I think the nostalgia regarding Xabi is a bit ott. Sure, we've suffered in his absence this season, but that's as much to do with Rafa's decision to replace him with an injured Aquilani leaving us with a Lucas/Masher CM partnership. If Aquilani had been fit from the start or Rafa had brought someone in to play the Gerrard role we might not be wistfully mourning Xabi's departure so acutely. Moreover, our current troubles cannot be solely attributed to the loss of Xabi (injuries to Gerrard/Torres/Agger, loss of form of Kuyt/Carra, collective loss of confidence etc).
Having watched Xabi get wholly overrun in midfield against Barca the other day, lacking the pace to keep within a couple of yards of Iniesta et al, I was reminded of his shortcomings. Perhaps without a "Masher" alongside him he too is suffering? He didn't look anything like a 30m player that day.
[/quote]
This is the most sensible and accurate post that has graced these forums for months now.
[/quote]
No it isn't, its a load of bollocks.
[/quote]
You are quite the idiot if you think that Alonso would have been as good as he was without Mascherano last season.
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=37825.msg1011765#msg1011765 date=1260535176]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=37825.msg1011761#msg1011761 date=1260535080]
At the risk of opening a can of worms, I think the nostalgia regarding Xabi is a bit ott. Sure, we've suffered in his absence this season, but that's as much to do with Rafa's decision to replace him with an injured Aquilani leaving us with a Lucas/Masher CM partnership. If Aquilani had been fit from the start or Rafa had brought someone in to play the Gerrard role we might not be wistfully mourning Xabi's departure so acutely. Moreover, our current troubles cannot be solely attributed to the loss of Xabi (injuries to Gerrard/Torres/Agger, loss of form of Kuyt/Carra, collective loss of confidence etc).
Having watched Xabi get wholly overrun in midfield against Barca the other day, lacking the pace to keep within a couple of yards of Iniesta et al, I was reminded of his shortcomings. Perhaps without a "Masher" alongside him he too is suffering? He didn't look anything like a 30m player that day.
[/quote]
This is the most sensible and accurate post that has graced these forums for months now.
[/quote]
No it isn't, its a load of bollocks.
[/quote]
You are quite the idiot if you think that Alonso would have been as good as he was without Mascherano last season.
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=37825.msg1011896#msg1011896 date=1260546573]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=37825.msg1011824#msg1011824 date=1260542719]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=37825.msg1011765#msg1011765 date=1260535176]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=37825.msg1011761#msg1011761 date=1260535080]
At the risk of opening a can of worms, I think the nostalgia regarding Xabi is a bit ott. Sure, we've suffered in his absence this season, but that's as much to do with Rafa's decision to replace him with an injured Aquilani leaving us with a Lucas/Masher CM partnership. If Aquilani had been fit from the start or Rafa had brought someone in to play the Gerrard role we might not be wistfully mourning Xabi's departure so acutely. Moreover, our current troubles cannot be solely attributed to the loss of Xabi (injuries to Gerrard/Torres/Agger, loss of form of Kuyt/Carra, collective loss of confidence etc).
Having watched Xabi get wholly overrun in midfield against Barca the other day, lacking the pace to keep within a couple of yards of Iniesta et al, I was reminded of his shortcomings. Perhaps without a "Masher" alongside him he too is suffering? He didn't look anything like a 30m player that day.
[/quote]
This is the most sensible and accurate post that has graced these forums for months now.
[/quote]
No it isn't, its a load of bollocks.
[/quote]
You are quite the idiot if you think that Alonso would have been as good as he was without Mascherano last season.
[/quote]
He would have been just as good this season had he not been hounded out. Never mind eh. You know best.
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=37825.msg1011824#msg1011824 date=1260542719]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=37825.msg1011765#msg1011765 date=1260535176]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=37825.msg1011761#msg1011761 date=1260535080]
At the risk of opening a can of worms, I think the nostalgia regarding Xabi is a bit ott. Sure, we've suffered in his absence this season, but that's as much to do with Rafa's decision to replace him with an injured Aquilani leaving us with a Lucas/Masher CM partnership. If Aquilani had been fit from the start or Rafa had brought someone in to play the Gerrard role we might not be wistfully mourning Xabi's departure so acutely. Moreover, our current troubles cannot be solely attributed to the loss of Xabi (injuries to Gerrard/Torres/Agger, loss of form of Kuyt/Carra, collective loss of confidence etc).
Having watched Xabi get wholly overrun in midfield against Barca the other day, lacking the pace to keep within a couple of yards of Iniesta et al, I was reminded of his shortcomings. Perhaps without a "Masher" alongside him he too is suffering? He didn't look anything like a 30m player that day.
[/quote]
This is the most sensible and accurate post that has graced these forums for months now.
[/quote]
No it isn't, its a load of bollocks.
[/quote]
You are quite the idiot if you think that Alonso would have been as good as he was without Mascherano last season.
[/quote]
He would have been just as good this season had he not been hounded out. Never mind eh. You know best.
He wasn't "hounded out" at all.
Brilliant.
Look, Oncy or whoever, I can see there's a point you reach so just cancel me. Thanks lads, good luck.
Look, Oncy or whoever, I can see there's a point you reach so just cancel me. Thanks lads, good luck.
How Do You Solve A Problem Like Larry?
You hysterical fucking *gaylord*
You hysterical fucking *gaylord*
- Status