• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Martin Johnson quits England job

Rouge Penguin

Very Active
Member
Not sure if the other thread was accidently locked, or locked cause the WC's long over.

Anyway. You asked for it, you got it! Johnson quits as England Manager.
 
Re: General Rugby Union Thread

I'm not sure this is necessarily a bad thing in itself, as I thought Johnno got the job too early and to my mind some of his decisions along the way have shown that, but what worries me is that it removes another obstacle to Andrew's takeover of the RFU. That guy must have a stack of very compromising photos of some very important people to have survived this long in such a senior position with such a hopeless track record.
 
Re: General Rugby Union Thread

Johnson was a strange appointment at the time, a terrible appointment in hindsight. The bloke was way out of his depth and England are much, much worse than when he took over.

Andrew is equally catastrophic and should go.

Shame for them that Edwards is committed, not that he'd fit in with that lot, they're not progressive enough, never have been.
 
I don't really buy the "he was out of his depth" line to be honest.

He reverted to making past mistakes this season, but for the past couple of years it looked like he was putting together a very decent side. Then he dropped Flood and put Wilko back in. Some of the players clearly took the piss during the world cup, and that's partly a failure on Johnson's part but also some of the senior players too.

England have plenty of talent there for someone to make proper use of, but the big problem England faces isn't the identity of the manager as opposed to the setup of professional rugby in England.
 
I'd agree with the final paragraph (we do need the right coach, but that's not the main hurdle we have to cross). The rest I'm not sure about. Things had indeed been looking up, but they slipped backwards big style out in NZ.
 
They’ve had a handful of decent results over the past 3 years but it’s not like they’re any further on now from when he took over is it? They have no discernable style of play, no set game plan other than overpowering brutality, no plan B for when that doesn’t work (which it doesn’t any more on the World stage), have clung on to a number of has-beens for 3 or 4 years too long, have no flair in the backline and haven’t got the faintest idea how to engender any, chop and change players by the game hoping to accidentally find a fit.. I could go on.
Their WC campaign was an embarrassment from the moment some dickhead decided a black kit would be a good idea in NZ. On the pitch they were woeful and possibly even more boring than usual, their favoured go-to tactic being a battering ram 20 yr old Samoan centre who, for some reason, seemed to run continually into touch. Off the pitch, their behaviour was completely unacceptable. Despite that, the players seemed to be harbouring some smug delusion that everything would click into place & they’d somehow, inexplicably, accidentally, find themselves in the Final again, a la 2007.
Obviously apparent during their dismal displays was Johnson’s inability to react to, and therefore influence, what was happening on the pitch. 3 years planning, an administrative set-up the size of NASA, a myriad of coaches, cherry-picking foreign players, a piss easy draw and still, for everything he did, it was obvious he was flying by the seat of his pants.
Whoever takes over has some decent players to pick from but Johnson’s tenure leaves nothing to build on, no foundation. Revolution, not evolution. Again.
 
So no pressure then. English rugby can talk forever about structures and reviews and pathways but ultimately it has to put its faith in one individual as the next head coach of its national team. That the 2015 World Cup is being staged in England effectively trebles the stakes. Get this pivotal decision wrong and the country will have blown its best chance in decades of repeating the increasingly dog-eared triumph of 2003.

Much depends, of course, on what the Rugby Football Union is aiming to achieve. If it wishes to repeat the cycle of failure in which it is stuck, it need only reject the advice of the Professional Game Board and other notable voices and keep muddling on. Let us assume, though, that recent events really have concentrated minds and also that the new man will have total responsibility for team affairs and will report directly to the RFU's incoming chief executive. If there is to be a performance director, he should work in conjunction with the coaching staff, not as their de facto boss.

For those who doubt whether that is practicable, step forward Andy Flower. The transformation in English cricket since he took the job cannot be overstated. If you have the right man setting the right tone, a man who can talk to professional players, schoolkids and the media with equal good sense and honesty, an awful lot of other things fall into place.

So here goes. In some ways the withdrawals of Nick Mallett and Brendan Venter, both potentially strong candidates to replace Martin Johnson, right, are a shame. In other ways their non-availability simplifies things. It effectively leaves the RFU with four viable alternatives, unless it wishes to disappear deep into the left-field undergrowth or drag someone like Sir Ian McGeechan out of Bath for one last hurrah. There could be worse outcomes but, for now, England will look elsewhere.

The first is the healthy, organic option. Jim Mallinder has been in and around the top-level coaching game for 10 years, first at Sale, then England A and latterly Northampton. His record of turning decent teams into good ones is excellent, having presided over 15 wins from 16 games with England Saxons. He also led England Under-21s to Six Nations success and has enjoyed three and a half fruitful years with Saints, steering them to promotion from the Championship as well as to the European Challenge Cup, the Anglo-Welsh Cup and a Heineken Cup final. The downside is that his contract at Franklin's Gardens runs until the end of next season and he will be loth to jump ship in mid-campaign along with his trusted assistants Dorian West and Paul Grayson. The Northampton chairman, Leon Barwell, will not let him go mid-season without significant compensation.

Next off the rank is the ultimate grizzled old pro. If there is one man who knows precisely how English rugby feels at the moment, it is Graham Henry. Four years ago he was reappointed as the All Blacks coach by the skin of his teeth, yet duly delivered New Zealand's first World Cup since 1987. Henry is due in London next week and the RFU should wine and dine him as often as possible while picking his brains as much as decency allows. By his own admission Henry is not a great fan of idle retirement and he may just be tempted by the ultimate challenge.

The stumbling blocks are obvious enough: he has achieved his heart's desire and will not particularly want to be seen spending the next four years plotting the downfall of his native land or, potentially, his ex-colleague Steve Hansen. Ultimately, though, he could add immense value as either a caretaker coach while Mallinder works his notice period or, alternatively, as a performance consultant. A pithy report from Henry based on three months' forensic observation of English rugby would be worth a thousand reviews by Joe Blazer.

Third? It would be wrong to think Mallinder is the only decent coach operating in these islands. Twickenham's kingmakers need only gaze out of their office window for their next candidate. Conor O'Shea has had one stint at the RFU and is precisely the type of smart, positive appointee to rinse away the battle fatigue which has afflicted the union and, by extension, its national team. Harlequins remain unbeaten this season and O'Shea, as a former head of the academy structure, knows precisely where to find the next generation of English talent.

His assistants would clearly be up to him but there are kindred souls around. Toby Booth, Mike Catt, Dean Ryan and his namesake, the England Sevens coach Ben Ryan, are bright enough to help transform not just how England play but, crucially, the way they think. There are good young defence coaches out there as well, not least Paul Gustard at Saracens.

And finally, just to keep everyone honest, there has to be a wild card. Or, to be precise, two of them. Sir Clive Woodward may not have been directly involved in rugby since the ill-fated 2005 Lions tour but he and his one-time adversary Eddie Jones would make an eye-catching double act. Both of them fancy a role and Jones – whose daughter is moving back to the UK to study – could hold the fort and shake things up while Woodward completes his London Olympic duties. Media-wise it would be a hoot; playing-wise it would be equally compelling.

Clearly much depends on whether Rob Andrew, the rugby operations director, remains at the union. If he does, Mallinder is the likeliest choice; if not, a Woodward/Jones axis may just materialise. A personal choice would be for Mallinder as head coach, with O'Shea in the performance director role and Henry on hand as a wise owl consultant on an initial two-year deal. Would it work? There is only one way to find out.
 
I'd be surprised if anyone who's actually up to the job will want it as long as they have to report to Andrew. If by some chance a good candidate IS appointed, he'll soon find himself in conflict with Andrew because anyone decent will see through that phoney in 10 seconds flat. Basically England are f'cked as long as that guy squats on in office like some bullfrog on a lilypad.
 
Ben Ryan managed my local rugby club a few years back, he was very highly thought of then.

I think Clive Woodward nailed it yesterday, he said any coach worthy of the job would be crazy to go near it whilst the current set up is as it is + He also ruled out himself and suggested that the job should go to a Englishman.
 
I mentioned in the WC thread about the RL Tomkins brothers. Joel did sign for Saracens, will play centre, personally don't think he's got the speed for a top class centre but time will tell I guess. Apparently on 400k a year, seems generous, but he is a good player. Decent play maker as well as broken field runner so they'll see him as a 12, would imagine Farrell had an input there.
Brother Sam is the best English back in either code at the moment. He signed a new contract with Wigan but will play for the Barbarians this weekend. Ultimately, he will play RU for England or RL in Australia, whoever offers him the most dosh. He is slightly suspect under the high ball, if I was Wallabies coach I would be exploiting that big time. However, his broken field running is superb. If he gets a break, he cashes in.
Will be interesting. He has the same management team as Ashton, his brother and Kyle Eastmond who has just signed for Bath (I think). Eastmond is a Robinson-clone only not quite as good (no disgrace there).
 
He does look a very good player indeed. I don't watch much league but did tune in for the Aussie v England final last weekend, it might of been a one off but he did look very dodgy under the high ball in that game.

I heard that in his new 4 year contract it states he can't talk to either ARL or Union sides.

Any of the Aussie union boys going over to league?
 
He has been prone to the odd mistake under the high ball but he's not usually as suspect as he was last weekend. Still, it's a weakness.

The only Wallabies that the Aussie Rugby League were really after were Kurtley Beale, James O'Connor and Quade Cooper. O'Connor is a dyed in the wool Union man so there's no chance there. Beale and Cooper did have talks with League clubs but signed 1 yr deals to allow them to play in the WC. Beale subsequently signed for Melbourne Rebels (as did O'Connor) so he's sorted now for a few years. Cooper didn't sign anywhere, I think he is the most likely to cross over. However, talk is his poor WC and now his injury have affected the package he will be offered so, who knows? The RL TV rights are up in 12 months and they are expected to sign a near $1bn deal which will allow them to double each club's salary cap. So, there are a lot of players holding out till then to renegotiate deals.

I think English RL clubs are likely to lose more players to Aussie RL than RU is.
 
The full extent of England's Rugby World Cup shambles has been laid bare following the leaking of confidential reports into events in New Zealand. Players and Rugby Football Union officials have both accused some squad members of being more interested in "getting cash and caps than about getting better on the pitch" while Martin Johnson's managerial failings have also been heavily criticised.

The three reviews – conducted by the RFU's director of elite rugby, Rob Andrew, the players' union and the professional clubs – were never intended for public consumption but the contents paint a damning picture of a divided squad whose priorities, in some cases, did not appear to be winning the tournament.

Among the evidence gathered by the Rugby Players' Association, who received feedback from 90% of the players, was a complaint by one player about a colleague's reaction in the dressing room – "There's £35,000 just gone down the toilet" – following the quarter-final defeat to France in Auckland. The player concerned said the response "made me sick. Money shouldn't even come into a player's mind."

It has also been confirmed that the RFU was held to ransom by the players before the tournament began, with the squad threatening to boycott the eve-of-departure dinner. "It is very disappointing that a senior group, led by Lewis Moody, disputed the level of payment for the World Cup squad, which led to meetings with RFU executives," Andrew said in a report leaked to the Times. "I believe this led to a further unsettling of the squad just before departure, which included a threat by the squad not to attend the World Cup send-off dinner at Twickenham. It suggested that some of the senior players were more focused on money than getting the rugby right."

There were also accusations that senior colleagues indulged in drinking games and poked fun at those who committed wholeheartedly to training. Johnson, who resigned as team manager last week, was the subject of particular criticism for failing to deal adequately with the fallout from the drunken night out in Queenstown, which saw Mike Tindall belatedly fined for his conduct.

The players union' report noted there had been "a lack of action which reflected his inexperience. Therefore primarily he must bear considerable responsibility for these failures." One of the players added: "I suppose we just wanted Johnno to have the bollocks to take action, especially after the Tindall night. He was too loyal and that was his downfall."

The release of the reports will cause huge embarrassment at Twickenham. They were due to form the major part of the Professional Game Board's report to the RFU's management board next week but the full scale of the fiasco is now in the public domain.

Among other complaints made by the players was a lack of SAS-style security. "It was a mistake not to have any security people like in 2003 and 2007," said one senior player. "This time we had two old fellas and one guy who was rumoured to have told someone the night out incident in Queenstown involving Tindall would be worth £100,000 from a newspaper."
 
Graham Henry and Nick Mallett have both pretty much said they aren't interested now too
 
No-one who can already claim international stature and experience will touch the job with a ten-foot pole under the current set-up. I'll be surprised if Mallinder (who's also compliant enough to accept working under Andrew, which will be a significant factor in the appointment given that Andrew's leading the process) fails to get it now.
 
This is a very enjoyable read:


England's Rugby World Cup shambles laid bare as leaked report blames greedy players and weak leaders

Lewis Moody was inadequate, Martin Johnson lacked "b*****", the coaches were laughably inept, and the players were greedy and immature. These are the explosive revelations revealed by a leaked report into England's shambolic Rugby World Cup.


England's calamity in New Zealand was caused by "players more interested in cash and caps" and coaches who were a laughing stock. No one - apart from scrum coach Graham Rowntree - comes out of the accounts with any credit.

Three official and confidential reports, leaked to The Times, were compiled by the RFU under the guidance of Rob Andrew.

The most revealing details come from the Rugby Players' Association report, which allowed England's players to give their candid views on the squad's failings anonymously. Here are selected highlights.

Training before New Zealand

“Pre-season was a f***-up.”

“We would have had a better chance of doing well at the World Cup if we had been allowed to train at our club.”

“It wasn’t hard, it was just LONG. We felt physically and mentally drained at the end.”

“The man-management was absolutely terrible.”

“All the plans we’d worked on for weeks suddenly went out the window because they didn’t happen to work in one game.”

“There wasn’t enough emphasis on conditioning.”

“There were two massive playbooks, which many players didn’t look at because it was in too much depth.”

“There wasn’t enough focus on basic skills.”

“The hotel [Pennyhill Park in Bagshot, Surrey] is lovely but we are rugby players not hotel guests. The pitch is full of rabbit holes and cuts up too easily.”

“Every week we left at 5pm to hit rush-hour traffic. That’s not just a moan, that’s about players who have been lifting weights all day being stuck in a car, stiffening up.”

Displays at the Rugby World Cup

“To go into World Cup games not having a game-plan, any structure or clear idea of what we were going to do in attack was astonishing.”

“I really can’t believe we lasted as long as we did in the tournament. We played like crap.”

“We got the French [quarter-final] week completely wrong. On Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday we trained in the morning and had the afternoon and evening off.

"X asked why we weren’t training at the same time as we were due to play in order to acclimatise but that was ignored.”


Coaching

“It reached a stage where each time we won a game we joked that we had saved a couple of the coaches’ jobs again.”

“The standard of attack coaching and defence coaching was poor. Substandard to coaching at my club.”

“The coaches seemed to have the same blueprint for every game. They didn’t seem to grasp that every opposition would play differently. Some of the coaches have no feel for the game.”

“The coaches’ philosophy on how to play the game was very different. The coaches really hate each other.”

“It was a tick-the-box, I’m all right Jack mentality.”

“Coaches spoke in generics: ‘play at tempo.’ But then no detail what to do next.”

“Coaches did not put enough trust in players on the field.”

“We had no identity. We weren’t the best at anything and we weren’t encouraged to be.”

“We basically did a bit of everything averagely, trying to cover everything in every training session.”

“They’d had four years to develop a plan and it felt like they were doing it off the cuff.”

“At our club there is a brutally honest policy. If you mess up, you are bollocked and understand you have let your team-mates down. In England there was a no-blame/excuse culture where you swept things under the carpet.”

“If players don’t perform, we get dropped; on the other hand, the coaches just seem to go through an internal review and keep their jobs.”

“We can’t just blame the coaches for the predicament we got in. Look at France, they couldn’t stand their coach and they almost won the World Cup.”


Martin Johnson

“It wasn’t Johno, it was that Johno was surrounded by the wrong people.”

“He’s incredibly loyal. The coaches aren’t stupid. They all make sure they get on very well with Johno.”

“We just wanted Johno to have the bollocks to take action, especially after the Tindall night. He was too loyal and that was his downfall.”

Graham Rowntree

“He was fantastic. Everyone likes and respects him and he had empathy with the players.”

“He was the best of all the coaches. He’s ahead of his time.”


Brian Smith

“He simply doesn’t understand the game well enough.”

“I would be delighted if he went. Our attack play was boring, uninventive, lacklustre, even schoolboy at times.”

“He didn’t offer anything. The players had all the ideas for strategy and all he did was write the players’ ideas on the board.”

“At one stage it was Ben Youngs who was coaching. Ben would come up with a strategy for how to run off the 9 and off the base of the ruck. Should he have had that responsibility when he’s playing in his first World Cup and trying to get his form back to where it was before his operation?”

“Smithy changes his mind all the time. In one preview he said we should scrum and maul them off the park, then in the review he said ‘why were you scrummaging them to death?’”

“He was way out of his depth.”

“We went away from what we did well. He selected an unexciting backline which likes to run over people.”

“If we’d got to the semi-finals or final it would have papered over the cracks and the worst thing is Brian Smith would have stayed in his job. It might be a blessing.”


John Wells

“Good at the technical side but pretty archaic.”

“He was out of his depth. There must be 20 coaches in the Premiership who would be better.”


Dave Alred

“We had kicking problems and yet almost every morning who do you see swanning around in a polo shirt about to play another round of golf but Alred. It’s not the image you should be giving off that this is like a holiday to you.”

“‘Ballgate’ was the worst incident in my mind because it was cheating.”

Selection

“For a 12-month period [summer 2010 until the end of the 2011 Six Nations] it was the best England had performed since the 2003 World Cup. That was in part due to continuity.”

“In the three World Cup warm-up games, they played three different teams. We lost the continuity.”

“We won the Six Nations and made huge strides against Australia, so why were so many changes made?”

“[Chris] Robshaw and [Tom] Wood proved themselves to be the fittest, the strongest and played out of their skin in training, but then they were overlooked for senior players and we reverted to type.”

“Jonny Wilkinson is not an attacking threat any more. We really needed [Toby] Flood because he is the one who bosses the team. Floody was part of the reason England played well in the Six Nations.”

“Ben Youngs was rushed back from knee injury and wasn’t fit enough.”

“Some guys were frustrated because guys were being picked on what they had done in the past, not how they were playing now.”

“They went for the most experienced players who could win ugly. It seemed naive to stick to older heads.”

“They selected [Lewis] Moody ahead of [Tom] Wood despite Moodos being half-fit and Woody playing awesomely in training and in the Six Nations.”

“It seemed like they believed the press too much and selected players who dominated coverage but weren’t playing that well.”

“Doctors wrapped people in cotton wool. You soon found out that if you mentioned a niggle it could be your chance gone.”

“It was amazing how some players who couldn’t play due to an injury were doing backflips into the swimming pool and playing golf.”


“We didn’t really have a good captain. I think Johno liked [Lewis] Moody as he left the team talks to Johno. He wasn’t very good at team talks, just f***ed a lot.”

“Steve Borthwick was a phenomenal leader. He was so knowledgeable about the game that I’m sure he intimidated John Wells.”

“Rather than go for someone senior, they should go for a player who is guaranteed to start.”

“If you lead by example and by putting your body on the line, surely that leadership is weakened if the team is questioning whether he is physically able to do what his mind wants him to do.”

“There was a time when Lewis was going to address the squad and say it was unacceptable to behave the way they had done in Queenstown and get into the state Tindall did.

"But then X came in and said ‘I don’t see what the problem is with having a few drinks, the press are just against us and making a mountain out of a molehill’. Of course, as soon as a senior player had said that, other players agree. Moodos had lost the moment to be able to dictate to the squad.”


Discipline

“We set standards within the group but punctuality seemed to apply to the younger guys but not the senior players. For one team meeting X didn’t just arrive late, he missed the entire meeting yet no one says a word.”

“We had meetings where ‘values’ were discussed but they felt like empty words.”

“There was confusion from start to finish. Everything was grey. There was no black and white.”

“The environment was a bit too jokey and disrespectful. It was an immature squad who took the piss out of some players for working hard, talking to the coaches or having interests away from rugby.”

“There was a culture where it was not cool to train hard. What happened to the culture where everyone was training to be the best in the world?”

“To hear one senior player in the changing room say straight after the quarter-final defeat ‘There’s £35k just gone down the toilet’ made me feel sick. Money shouldn’t even come into a player’s mind.”

“Too many players were chasing endorsements.”

“You sense for some players it was more about getting cash and caps than about getting better.”

“It was not a place where you felt you could be yourself or talk candidly. It was quite a dour, depressing set-up to be part of.”


Drinking

“We had three months together in camp not drinking and we didn’t have one social going out for some beers. And yet the night before we fly to New Zealand, the RFU lay on a farewell party.

"Why are we being given the clear message it’s OK to get p***ed when we’re about to fly to a World Cup. Then to be told there was a tab for us after the Argentina game seemed odd.”

“It was the senior guys pushing the boundaries, treating it like an old-school tour. It has to be treated more seriously.”

“If it’s the senior players leading drinking games or drinking until they can’t remember anything, what example are the younger players set?”

“I don’t think we understood the impact of Tinds being a member of the Royal Family in a Commonwealth country and the extra interest he would generate.”

“Ireland had been in there [the Altitude Bar in Queenstown] and were much worse, but I think they might have taken the press with them.”

“As a group, we behaved like everyone should pander to our every need. At times we were mindless and reckless.”

“Drinking games are unacceptable on World Cup. Even if you’re given a free tab you should be able to show some self-restraint.”

“Drinking games are something that happen. It’s a part of how a group of lads relax.”

“It’s our own fault we came back so unpopular.”


Media management

“We were constantly on the back foot with the media. An ‘us against the press’ mentality developed, which wasn’t healthy.”

“We all had our guard up because of the advice. As we didn’t give them [the press] anything, they were obviously going to find something else to write about.”

“The media guys kept making a mountain out of a molehill.”

“The minute the night out hit the papers, the media department hit the panic button and we went into lockdown.”

“[Mike] Tindall got given terrible advice. I said they’re going to keep writing about it so at least tell them the truth, tell them your side.”

“Johno shouldn’t be spending most of his time taking questions about off-field incidents rather than rugby. Isn’t that what the media guy should do? Or what about Rob Andrew?”

“Ex-players started wading in when we know what they got up to in World Cups and it was worse than us.”

“A siege mentality developed. We need to be more professional in working with the press, not shutting them out.”

“I watched the coaches umming and ahhing for ages about whether to let Nick Mullins and Phil Vickery [the ITV commentators] watch training. The next day, the same commentators go to Wales and get made a cup of tea and welcomed in. Is it any wonder they feel like we treat them like s*** and do the same back to us?”

“The English press seemed to want us to mess up.”
 
Three official and confidential reports, leaked to The Times, were compiled by the RFU under the guidance of Rob Andrew.

And of course Rob Andrew is under a lot of pressure at the moment isn't he ?

Sneaky to leak all that info.
 
Andrew is the consummate office politician, and always has been since the days when he won about three times as many England caps as he should ever have got. The manner in which he blagged his way into his current job ahead of Woodward in the first place, and has kept it since despite a record from which success is conspicuously lacking, is testament to his ability to feather his own nest. No fundamental improvement will be possible unless and until he's removed from his post.
 
It's getting interesting !

The Rugby Football Union has drafted in a former Scotland Yard detective to launch an urgent inquiry into the leak of three supposedly confidential reports into England's disastrous World Cup. The reports graphically illustrate how the campaign in New Zealand was undermined from within and contain a series of explosive revelations.

Allegations that some players were more motivated by money and having a good time than performing for their country, together with criticism of the coaching staff and the absence of any direction from the governing body for the beleaguered team manager, Martin Johnson, who resigned last week, left the union not so much on the back foot as flat on its back on Wednesday.

However, one of Johnson's coaching team last night insisted that they were part of a "political battle going on at Twickenham". He added: "It's become very personal and it's a great shame. It's just a complete political shit-fight. For people to try and paint a picture that we are unprofessional, disorganised or incompetent is grossly unfair. To cobble together a few players' comments to give that impression … I don't think that is right.

"The perception is that England is a shambles. Well, not really. We had a poor World Cup but the 2011 season was moderately successful. We won 10 out of 13 internationals. Only New Zealand won more games in that period than we did."

The leak has caused fury at Twickenham and the RFU's chief disciplinary officer, Jeff Blackett, is arranging for a former detective to head an independent inquiry to identify the person responsible and also establish a motive. "It is very disappointing that such sensitive information, based on a number of statements by individuals who were promised confidentiality, have been leaked," he said.

"It is outrageous that individuals find themselves disparaged without the right of reply and this is damaging to the RFU as an organisation. When the report is produced, and I would imagine the time frame will be two weeks, we will take the necessary action."

Outrageous was the word used by Damien Hopley, the chief executive of the Rugby Players' Association (RPA), who sits on the Professional Game Board, the body which is reviewing the World Cup campaign and which received the three reports. It will report to the RFU's board of directors on 30 November and make a number of recommendations, including who should succeed Johnson.

"I am devastated that our members' trust has been so publicly betrayed," Hopley said. "Many comments were understandably robust because they knew England had not performed as they could have and the players are committed to getting things right for the future. Our players were assured that their feedback would be totally confidential and yet no sooner has the report been sent to the board members than it appears in a national newspaper. If we are serious about destroying the porous culture in our game, then we need to introduce tougher security measures to weed out these self?serving people once and for all."

The search for the culprit will not derail the review process or undermine the responses of those interviewed. Mark McCafferty, the chief executive of Premiership Rugby who is also a member of the Professional Game Board, said the whole of the professional game had to bear responsibility for the fall of England from World Cup winners in 2003 to laughing stock eight years later.

"It is disappointing that reports have been leaked to the media," he said. "The review process will continue and recommendations will be made to the RFU board next week. We need to get to an understanding that the kind of approach we have seen cannot continue. Every administrator and player [in the professional game] has to look at their responsibilities. The fact that the Premiership clubs are contributing to the review process says straight away that we feel it is a problem we have all got to solve."

The two most dysfunctional major sides in the World Cup were England and France, the only two leading nations who operate a club-based system. Most of their rivals have central contracts meaning they directly employ players who pay dearly for serious breaches of discipline.

"I am not sure that the club background is an issue," said McCafferty. "We have all got to be responsible for our own behaviour, including whoever leaked the reports to the media. Everyone, players and administrators, is accountable."

There are little more than two months before the start of the Six Nations Championship and not only are England lacking a head coach or a management team, but the RFU is also so fragmented and leaderless that it will take a hard sell to convince anyone of stature that he would have the optimum chance to succeed.

"A lot has been said about what happened with England on and off the field in the World Cup, but the question is whether they will learn from it," said Joe Lydon, part of England's management team that was sacked after the 2006 Six Nations, who is now the Welsh Rugby Union's head of rugby.

"I hope they do not get rid of the entire management team that went to New Zealand because you only learn from experience. If you bring in all new coaches, they are going to have to find out what their predecessors already knew, good and bad.

"England have huge resources but that almost seems to be working against them. We have far fewer in Wales and that means we have to work extremely hard. I cannot say I feel sorry for Martin Johnson: I have the utmost respect for him as a player and as a person and it was a case, as he has said, of the system letting itself down. England have to rebuild quickly. They have the players and there are English coaches capable of taking over from Johnson, but they have to make sure that there is more responsibility and accountability going forward."

While England's captain at the World Cup, Lewis Moody, responded to criticism of him by unnamed colleagues in New Zealand with a vigorous rebuttal of allegations, the full-back Ben Foden said that everyone involved in the abortive campaign had to accept responsibility for the dismal way it played out. "People want to point fingers, but there were 50 of us on the tour," said Foden. "It's all very well to point at the next guy and blame him but we have to take responsibility. The image of rugby players has definitely taken a hit. That's the way the game is going now. It has gone professional and people are more in the limelight. We have to be careful but I hope it will be a lesson learned. You've got to do your talking on the field and if we'd won the World Cup no one would be complaining about all these things that happened."

The sports minister Hugh Robertson, has demanded that the RFU improves its governance at a time when it does not have a chief executive and at the end of a year of mass sackings and resignations that has left it reeling. "Anyone who cares about rugby can only be dismayed by what has happened at Twickenham and in the World Cup," he said. "The RFU must use this as an opportunity to reform the way rugby is run in this country and they must put in place a high-performance system that will ensure we have the best possible opportunity of winning the 2015 World Cup. A problem with sporting governing structures in this country is that they are stuck in a previous era and in rugby's case I do not think it has fully made the transition from the amateur to the professional era."

Robertson wants the RFU to accept in full a report on governance by the legal firm Slaughter and May, which will be considered by the RFU's council next week. As any changes would need a two-thirds majority at the union's annual general meeting, the most radical recommendations, involving slimming down the council and giving executives more clout, will probably be rejected, leaving Robertson to decide whether to threaten to withdraw government financial support for the 2015 World Cup, which England is hosting.
 
Who do you think the player was who stated after just getting knocked out by France "There’s £35k just gone down the toilet"?

This might be comedy gold right now, but you just know that England will benefit from this in the coming years.
 
I wouldn't read anything into a statement taken out of context and fed to the media to take pressure off another tbh
 
As a non englishman i don't think it's for me to doubt any of these quotes or the context in which they are presented.

What do you think will happen? A complete rebuild of the rubble that is the ERU?

Links in the welsh papers (before this broke) that Rowntree is joining the Wales coaching staff.
 
England player:

"We knew we were in trouble when we started to copy some of Romanias attacking plans".
 
I'm just trying to keep you all up to date with the latest news in international rugby mate.


I see Brian Smith resigned today.
 
Back
Top Bottom