Manure (A)
- Thread starter Hansern
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Status
The point being they didn't in those other instances. We've been consistently fucked over by VAR
Rubbish. The rules say not one word about getting to the ball first. Putting that gloss on the rules is a copout pure and simple.
Would you have said it was a pen at the other end of the pitch? I think people are looking at this through bias.
Taking into account the shite penalties that have been given against us this season, then yeah, we should have been given that yesterday. Doesn't make it a penalty though when we think about how we would ideally want the game to be played.
Disagree totally. In answer to your question, yes, it would have been a peno at whichever end of the pitch, and sorry but I don't see anything "ideal" about an application of the rules which excuses a studs-up tackle simply because it hit the ball on its way through to the victim's leg.
There was some debate whether Fabinho touched McBurnie.
And his studs were down in any case.
Robertson's was a pen. He kicked the bottom of his foot
Trents shouldn't have been a pen.
Bailley had his studs up and made contact with Phillip's shin.
By the letter of the law, he's not in control.
If it was at the other end of the pitch I'd have accepted it was a penalty due to the follow through.
And his studs were down in any case.
Robertson's was a pen. He kicked the bottom of his foot
Trents shouldn't have been a pen.
Bailley had his studs up and made contact with Phillip's shin.
By the letter of the law, he's not in control.
If it was at the other end of the pitch I'd have accepted it was a penalty due to the follow through.
That was my fave match of the year. Signs of last year's performances.
And that's a penalty all day, every day by the current standard. Can debate all we want if it should be or not - but shocking to be overturned in today's game.
And that's a penalty all day, every day by the current standard. Can debate all we want if it should be or not - but shocking to be overturned in today's game.
If the Robertson one is consistently given as a penalty the game is gone. It's already gone, to be honest, but you know what I mean. There was an incident (Chelsea vs Leeds) a few days after the Robertson pen, and the exact same thing happened. No pen.
The two players come together for the ball and it's there to be won. Bailly gets there first and clears the ball, he does catch him, and it's a strong tackle, but it's never a foul. There are instances where you can win the ball but with excessive and dangerous force and it's a foul. This wasn't one of them.
The two players come together for the ball and it's there to be won. Bailly gets there first and clears the ball, he does catch him, and it's a strong tackle, but it's never a foul. There are instances where you can win the ball but with excessive and dangerous force and it's a foul. This wasn't one of them.
We all know that if the roles were reversed and Phillips had done that to Bailly, would the VAR ref have done the same thing? No.
And I wouldnt have had a problem with that cause it was so excessive and loss of control that its clearly a pen.
But that tweet highlights the inconsistency and incompetence of the refs and VAR refs, and somehow we get fucked every time.
And I wouldnt have had a problem with that cause it was so excessive and loss of control that its clearly a pen.
But that tweet highlights the inconsistency and incompetence of the refs and VAR refs, and somehow we get fucked every time.
I do agree the penalty would have stood at the other end. But I also think everyone would've been claiming it's not a pen.
I disagree with it being excessive and loss of control. It's not as if he was 3 foot in the air both feet off the ground.
I disagree with it being excessive and loss of control. It's not as if he was 3 foot in the air both feet off the ground.
What did you expect? Rules? What rules? Tierney (Manc) on the VAR and Taylor (Manc) on the pitch.
Class that from Klopp
From https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ds-us-why-we-love-football-amid-outside-drama
Alexander-Arnold reminds us why we love football amid outside drama
Near the end of what has supposedly been a difficult season the Liverpool right-back treated Old Trafford as his playground
Liverpool’s Trent Alexander-Arnold shoots on a night at Old Trafford that he dominated from start to finish.
Jonathan Liew
Jonathan Liew
Thu 13 May 2021 23.59 BST
40
263
There was a decoy Liverpool bus. That was the one that ended up getting its tyres slashed by Manchester United fans on a side street near Old Trafford.
The real Liverpool bus, unmarked and unheralded, sneaked around the back entrance to avoid the hundreds of protesters out front.
Advertisement
United also operated a couple of dummy buses to shuttle between the hotel and the stadium. The players themselves travelled in their own cars and arrived six hours in advance. On the concourse, riot vans and police horses jostled to keep the crowds at bay. Two arrests were made. Remind me. Why were we doing all this again?
Firmino fires Liverpool past Manchester United and into top-four reckoning
Read more
This is, perhaps, the prevailing theme of these past eight months of plague football: the vague sensation that somewhere amid the myriad contortions and unsatisfying compromises, the endless whats and wheres and whens, we mislaid the why. Decoy buses. A Thursday 8.15pm kick‑off to accommodate a fixture postponed because fans stopped it happening. Is this strange? Is this normal? What are we all doing here? Naturally, most of these uncertainties endure. But somehow, in amongst the six goals and the lawless entertainment, a certain logic emerged too.
Liverpool are back in the top‑four race. United are staggering towards the end of the season like a team who have played 58 games on fumes. Harry Maguire is more important than we realised. And after the toughest season of his career, Trent Alexander-Arnold has fought his way through the storm.
Advertisement
Tired legs, tired minds, tired bodies, tired consciences: these have been the motifs of Liverpool’s pandemic, a jumble of barely legible subplots that seems to make less sense the more you look at it. And for all the turbulence and rancour off the pitch, Liverpool have looked painfully tame on it: swallowed up in a deluge of back passes and hopeless crosses, a team trying all the same things in the increasingly forlorn hope that it will all somehow click.
For much of the first half‑hour, this game appeared to be following a similar pattern. United scored, Bruno Fernandes providing the little flick of invention the game desperately needed. Liverpool puffed and puffed and passed and passed. They had a penalty scrubbed off by the VAR. It felt like one of those nights. But out of a scruffy set‑piece situation, Diogo Jota diverted the ball past Dean Henderson with an instinctive flick of the heel. It was a foothold, if nothing else.
Few players have embodied Liverpool’s travails this season as faithfully as Alexander-Arnold. One minute you’re a virtual unknown; the next you’re one of the hottest footballing properties on the planet and the taker of perhaps the most famous corner in history; the next you’ve lost your England place and everyone has basically agreed that you can’t defend. This is a familiar cycle of boom-and-bust, one that has claimed many a talented 22-year-old in the past. But somehow over the last few weeks, something seems to have stirred in him: a fortitude and resilience that we perhaps expected to see, but not necessarily this soon.
Advertisement
And so with half-time looming, Alexander-Arnold stood over a free-kick from the right. There was a little strut as he approached the ball, the little snap of the ankle that generates just that little extra overspin. You didn’t need to be a seasoned Alexander-Arnold watcher to realise that this was a player who was comfortable in his game again. Firmino’s header was brilliant, and in retrospect perhaps that was the moment that Liverpool found their purpose. Oh, hang on. Yes. This was how it was supposed to work. For 90 minutes plus change, Old Trafford was Alexander‑Arnold’s playground.
There was a second assist for Firmino. A scandalous stepover to send Paul Pogba for an ice cream. An unbelievable pass over the top to Sadio Mané. A couple of rakish pops at goal himself. Five key passes. And with Gareth Southgate watching from the stands, a reminder that when he is humming he doesn’t just raise his own game; he raises everyone else’s, too.
Manchester United 2-4 Liverpool: Premier League – as it happened
Read more
So much of the criticism that Alexander-Arnold has received this season has been gauged against standards he himself has set. Let’s take a moment to remember just what a thrilling high-wire act he has created for himself: playmaker, crosser, set-piece-taker, last-ditch defender, inexhaustible engine. This is a role that only a handful of players on the planet can play to even a competent level. Meanwhile, in supposedly one of his worst seasons, he still tops the Liverpool standings for chances created, interceptions, tackles and forward passes.
Advertisement
And as a rampant second half unfolded, there was something else there too: a sense of unbridled relish that seemed to create its own clarity around it. Marcus Rashford galloping clear. Mo Salah scoring an emphatic fourth.
Jürgen Klopp going bananas on the touchline. Scott McTominay dementedly chasing the game like a man who had accidentally got on the decoy bus. And at the heart of it all, Alexander-Arnold: playing like a man who had rediscovered football again. It was good. It was fun. And, you realised: maybe this was the point of it all.
Alexander-Arnold reminds us why we love football amid outside drama
Near the end of what has supposedly been a difficult season the Liverpool right-back treated Old Trafford as his playground
Liverpool’s Trent Alexander-Arnold shoots on a night at Old Trafford that he dominated from start to finish.
Jonathan Liew
Jonathan Liew
Thu 13 May 2021 23.59 BST
40
263
There was a decoy Liverpool bus. That was the one that ended up getting its tyres slashed by Manchester United fans on a side street near Old Trafford.
The real Liverpool bus, unmarked and unheralded, sneaked around the back entrance to avoid the hundreds of protesters out front.
Advertisement
United also operated a couple of dummy buses to shuttle between the hotel and the stadium. The players themselves travelled in their own cars and arrived six hours in advance. On the concourse, riot vans and police horses jostled to keep the crowds at bay. Two arrests were made. Remind me. Why were we doing all this again?
Firmino fires Liverpool past Manchester United and into top-four reckoning
Read more
This is, perhaps, the prevailing theme of these past eight months of plague football: the vague sensation that somewhere amid the myriad contortions and unsatisfying compromises, the endless whats and wheres and whens, we mislaid the why. Decoy buses. A Thursday 8.15pm kick‑off to accommodate a fixture postponed because fans stopped it happening. Is this strange? Is this normal? What are we all doing here? Naturally, most of these uncertainties endure. But somehow, in amongst the six goals and the lawless entertainment, a certain logic emerged too.
Liverpool are back in the top‑four race. United are staggering towards the end of the season like a team who have played 58 games on fumes. Harry Maguire is more important than we realised. And after the toughest season of his career, Trent Alexander-Arnold has fought his way through the storm.
Advertisement
Tired legs, tired minds, tired bodies, tired consciences: these have been the motifs of Liverpool’s pandemic, a jumble of barely legible subplots that seems to make less sense the more you look at it. And for all the turbulence and rancour off the pitch, Liverpool have looked painfully tame on it: swallowed up in a deluge of back passes and hopeless crosses, a team trying all the same things in the increasingly forlorn hope that it will all somehow click.
For much of the first half‑hour, this game appeared to be following a similar pattern. United scored, Bruno Fernandes providing the little flick of invention the game desperately needed. Liverpool puffed and puffed and passed and passed. They had a penalty scrubbed off by the VAR. It felt like one of those nights. But out of a scruffy set‑piece situation, Diogo Jota diverted the ball past Dean Henderson with an instinctive flick of the heel. It was a foothold, if nothing else.
Few players have embodied Liverpool’s travails this season as faithfully as Alexander-Arnold. One minute you’re a virtual unknown; the next you’re one of the hottest footballing properties on the planet and the taker of perhaps the most famous corner in history; the next you’ve lost your England place and everyone has basically agreed that you can’t defend. This is a familiar cycle of boom-and-bust, one that has claimed many a talented 22-year-old in the past. But somehow over the last few weeks, something seems to have stirred in him: a fortitude and resilience that we perhaps expected to see, but not necessarily this soon.
Advertisement
And so with half-time looming, Alexander-Arnold stood over a free-kick from the right. There was a little strut as he approached the ball, the little snap of the ankle that generates just that little extra overspin. You didn’t need to be a seasoned Alexander-Arnold watcher to realise that this was a player who was comfortable in his game again. Firmino’s header was brilliant, and in retrospect perhaps that was the moment that Liverpool found their purpose. Oh, hang on. Yes. This was how it was supposed to work. For 90 minutes plus change, Old Trafford was Alexander‑Arnold’s playground.
There was a second assist for Firmino. A scandalous stepover to send Paul Pogba for an ice cream. An unbelievable pass over the top to Sadio Mané. A couple of rakish pops at goal himself. Five key passes. And with Gareth Southgate watching from the stands, a reminder that when he is humming he doesn’t just raise his own game; he raises everyone else’s, too.
Manchester United 2-4 Liverpool: Premier League – as it happened
Read more
So much of the criticism that Alexander-Arnold has received this season has been gauged against standards he himself has set. Let’s take a moment to remember just what a thrilling high-wire act he has created for himself: playmaker, crosser, set-piece-taker, last-ditch defender, inexhaustible engine. This is a role that only a handful of players on the planet can play to even a competent level. Meanwhile, in supposedly one of his worst seasons, he still tops the Liverpool standings for chances created, interceptions, tackles and forward passes.
Advertisement
And as a rampant second half unfolded, there was something else there too: a sense of unbridled relish that seemed to create its own clarity around it. Marcus Rashford galloping clear. Mo Salah scoring an emphatic fourth.
Jürgen Klopp going bananas on the touchline. Scott McTominay dementedly chasing the game like a man who had accidentally got on the decoy bus. And at the heart of it all, Alexander-Arnold: playing like a man who had rediscovered football again. It was good. It was fun. And, you realised: maybe this was the point of it all.
Some might have claimed that, but I certainly wouldn't and I don't believe I'd have been on my own either. Claim or no claim, the rules say bugger all about getting to the ball first.
And it wouldn't have had to be 3 feet in the air and off the ground to be a foul. If you don't think it was out of control, you're saying he meant it. Foul, penalty and BTW a red card for serious foul play.
Did I dream that United fans attempted to hijack the Liverpool team bus (the inbreds picked the wrong bus I know - but what would have happened had it been the right one), that United had their team at the ground from 1.30 with beds installed in the corporate boxes, that as a result of the fans actions our pre match preparations were disturbed. And did I dream that on the day of the original fixture United fans rioted at the grounds, breaking and entering, damaging the pitch and other property and attacking police, injuring 6 of them, and untimately getting the game called off. And did I dream that all of this was done in protest at the Glazers, but all their actions and chanting was abuse of and at Liverpool They had a game with Leicester and did nothing. And did I dream that for all of this there is no sanction being put on Manchester United by the FA or Premier League, or no condemnation from the FA, the Premier League, Sky and their pundits, Ollie Kay, Ollie Holt, Henry Winter and all the other hacks, and that now it is perfectly ok for those scum, or indeed fans of any club to do the same without fear of sanction or condemnation whenever they feel they want a game called off. ?????
Surely it must all have been a dream. Surely all that can't have happened?
Surely it must all have been a dream. Surely all that can't have happened?
Penalty, maybe. I don't agree, but I can maybe see how some people might think it was a foul. Maybe.
Red card is just ridiculous bias.
Red card is just ridiculous bias.
TAA was absolutely immense.
Might be going back a bit but this was given as a red card and was a very similar challenge to last nights one
I'd have to see more angles, but that's a lot more dangerous than the one last night.
Like, it's not even close
Several seasons ago, that whole "I got the ball first" argument was taken out of the game... It no longer matters if you win the ball on your way to poleaxing the player. The entire motion is judged, and glancing the ball as your boot somebody into the air doesn't save you anymore. Free kicks and penalties have been given for EXACTLY what their CB did last night for years now. That's a foul 100% of the time, under these modern rules.
Until last night.
Until last night.
The similarity is in the follow through not the severity of the tackle. Last nights might not have been a red card but it certainly debatable about it being a foul for reckless play. I've seen players get serious injuries from much less forceful tackles than that and if it would have been given for Utd (and it would) then why shouldn't it be given for us.
Spearing went studs up right into his shin. Bailly basically toe-poked the ball. How is it similar?
Last edited:
I wasn't saying it was a red card. What I was saying, and still say, is that it would have to be a red card if you don't believe Bailly lost control of the tackle, because the only alternative then would be that he meant it.
The way the referee brain functions is that he can't know for sure if he meant it, and he can't know for sure if he lost control, so (a) he's a manc therefore I'll do nothing because I'm not sure what happened, or (b) if he was scouse I'd give the penalty and a red because why not.
As Schrodinger would say, he simultaneously meant it and lost control.
PS Please, no lectures
Because they both won the ball first and both followed through into the player. Fernandes would still be screaming if it had happened to him
- Status
