can I have your thoughts please? I'm curious with regards to people's views to these two games.
manu and wolves thoughts
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A few on here should be feeling like a right load of charlies after all the doommongering they were coming out with following the Bolton fiasco.
fuck it, no one can be bothered to post their thoughts so I will.
1. carroll
when he was at newcastle the guy was a monster, bullying defenders and winning everything in the air.
at liverpool for the most part he has been a bit of a joke. to be fair to him he hasn't been allowed to build momentum, when he scores or performs well he is usally dropped.
Even when everyone was getting on carroll's back I had a degree of sympathy for him because we were in no way shape or form playing to andy's strength and to my mind playing to andy's strengths aren't flinging him aimless punts up field, or playing 20 yards behind him or giving him piss poor crosses and expecting him to win them.
playing to andy's strengths is buzzing around him so when he wins the first ball there are a number of liverpool players to latch onto the second ball. it's gambling that he will win a flick on and sure you lose shape on a speculative header he may or may not win but not guts no glory.
andy has shown he can hold up the ball when it is played to him along the ground, if we get as close to him as possible andy will occupy defenders allowing space for others, even when he isn't scoring he can be effective.
andy is moving in the right direction and I think there is more to come from him, first to reach the level he was at newcastle and then to surpass that at liverpool. keep up the good work andy.
2. bellamy
what can you say about bellamy? 32? he runs around like he is 22. brilliant movement, raw passion and so direct. I really think he is our best striker and what an asset to start games or bring off the bench.
an added bonus for me is his set pieces I didn't know he had that in his locker, his corners are excellent.
I absolute love the way team deep deeper to counter his pace, this is really helping the likes of carroll and kuyt as they don't have the pace but being closer to goal they can create far more damage.
bellamy has been excellent. my player of the season.
3. enrique
an absolute superb fullback and dare I say the best in the league. that said I thought he was all over the fucking place for the last two games (to the point I wanted him to get a needed rest).
best I love his energy to get up the pitch and support, the pundits were moaning at bellamy's clear path to goal but enrique's run dragged away two defenders.
I think he slightly over complicates things with passing his way out of trouble rather than clear his line (got caught at the weekend) but it's hard to argue with this style of play when it sets up one goal and was close to setting up another.
I think enrique is the best left back we've had in well over 10 years, better than riise even.
4. adam
I think when he is in a midfield two he is all over the place, he is too deep to hurt the oppersition and gives away too many dangerous free kicks closer to our area but in a midfield 3 with a dedicated holding midfielder (lucas/spearing) the guy comes into his own, he has the ability to ghost past players (fuck knows how) and his delivery from open play is absolutely superb.
it's difficult to know what to do about the gerrard/adam/henderson trio as when lucas comes back (or we buy another holding midfielder) then one of them has to lose out, the captain place is assured so it's a straight choice of henderson and adam.
5. henderson
talking about henderson, I think a lot of people think he flatters to deceive and I can definately see where they are coming from but personally I think he is a really good player. he sees everything early, very rarely do you see henderson taking more than two touches, and if there is a first time through ball he will almost always play, constrast with someone like kuyt (as example not meaning to knock him) kuyt will usually run with the ball to create space and THEN will think about making the pass (the set up for johnson/bellamy comes to mind). he keeps things ticking over and he keeps possession, I'm sure many don't see this as an asset but away from especially it is very important. he is young and his getting better.
6. skrtel and agger
imho are currently the best centre partnership in the league bar none. the allow us to compress the play and push bodies forwards (with the excellent pepe sweeping up behind them). they are comfortable on the ball and (aimless) hoof has all but been eradicated from our game. I love the way how they shout at each other to keep both on their toes and although I don't think either is a better organiser than carra or better out and out defenders I think the other qualities like ability on the ball, pace, starting play from the back makes them a better duo than carra + 1.
I will close off by saying I have been really pleased how we have responded to the horror show of bolton and I've been pleased with our general play. I like how we are commiting more bodies forwards to the attack, maybe we are growing more confident andy will hold up the ball so are prepared to take risks with regards to leaving set positions.
suarez is back now and it is interesting to see how he will be intergrated back into the side after a long lay off.
bellamy - has 6 goals in 7
kuyt - is entering his spring goal burst
carroll - is looking like the player he was at newcastle
gerrard - well, he's gerrard
adam - is looking far stronger in a midfield 3
henderson - great energy, movement and quick interchanges
spearing - the only dedicated holding midfielder
you add all that up and it's a selection headache but it is a nice headache to have.
1. carroll
when he was at newcastle the guy was a monster, bullying defenders and winning everything in the air.
at liverpool for the most part he has been a bit of a joke. to be fair to him he hasn't been allowed to build momentum, when he scores or performs well he is usally dropped.
Even when everyone was getting on carroll's back I had a degree of sympathy for him because we were in no way shape or form playing to andy's strength and to my mind playing to andy's strengths aren't flinging him aimless punts up field, or playing 20 yards behind him or giving him piss poor crosses and expecting him to win them.
playing to andy's strengths is buzzing around him so when he wins the first ball there are a number of liverpool players to latch onto the second ball. it's gambling that he will win a flick on and sure you lose shape on a speculative header he may or may not win but not guts no glory.
andy has shown he can hold up the ball when it is played to him along the ground, if we get as close to him as possible andy will occupy defenders allowing space for others, even when he isn't scoring he can be effective.
andy is moving in the right direction and I think there is more to come from him, first to reach the level he was at newcastle and then to surpass that at liverpool. keep up the good work andy.
2. bellamy
what can you say about bellamy? 32? he runs around like he is 22. brilliant movement, raw passion and so direct. I really think he is our best striker and what an asset to start games or bring off the bench.
an added bonus for me is his set pieces I didn't know he had that in his locker, his corners are excellent.
I absolute love the way team deep deeper to counter his pace, this is really helping the likes of carroll and kuyt as they don't have the pace but being closer to goal they can create far more damage.
bellamy has been excellent. my player of the season.
3. enrique
an absolute superb fullback and dare I say the best in the league. that said I thought he was all over the fucking place for the last two games (to the point I wanted him to get a needed rest).
best I love his energy to get up the pitch and support, the pundits were moaning at bellamy's clear path to goal but enrique's run dragged away two defenders.
I think he slightly over complicates things with passing his way out of trouble rather than clear his line (got caught at the weekend) but it's hard to argue with this style of play when it sets up one goal and was close to setting up another.
I think enrique is the best left back we've had in well over 10 years, better than riise even.
4. adam
I think when he is in a midfield two he is all over the place, he is too deep to hurt the oppersition and gives away too many dangerous free kicks closer to our area but in a midfield 3 with a dedicated holding midfielder (lucas/spearing) the guy comes into his own, he has the ability to ghost past players (fuck knows how) and his delivery from open play is absolutely superb.
it's difficult to know what to do about the gerrard/adam/henderson trio as when lucas comes back (or we buy another holding midfielder) then one of them has to lose out, the captain place is assured so it's a straight choice of henderson and adam.
5. henderson
talking about henderson, I think a lot of people think he flatters to deceive and I can definately see where they are coming from but personally I think he is a really good player. he sees everything early, very rarely do you see henderson taking more than two touches, and if there is a first time through ball he will almost always play, constrast with someone like kuyt (as example not meaning to knock him) kuyt will usually run with the ball to create space and THEN will think about making the pass (the set up for johnson/bellamy comes to mind). he keeps things ticking over and he keeps possession, I'm sure many don't see this as an asset but away from especially it is very important. he is young and his getting better.
6. skrtel and agger
imho are currently the best centre partnership in the league bar none. the allow us to compress the play and push bodies forwards (with the excellent pepe sweeping up behind them). they are comfortable on the ball and (aimless) hoof has all but been eradicated from our game. I love the way how they shout at each other to keep both on their toes and although I don't think either is a better organiser than carra or better out and out defenders I think the other qualities like ability on the ball, pace, starting play from the back makes them a better duo than carra + 1.
I will close off by saying I have been really pleased how we have responded to the horror show of bolton and I've been pleased with our general play. I like how we are commiting more bodies forwards to the attack, maybe we are growing more confident andy will hold up the ball so are prepared to take risks with regards to leaving set positions.
suarez is back now and it is interesting to see how he will be intergrated back into the side after a long lay off.
bellamy - has 6 goals in 7
kuyt - is entering his spring goal burst
carroll - is looking like the player he was at newcastle
gerrard - well, he's gerrard
adam - is looking far stronger in a midfield 3
henderson - great energy, movement and quick interchanges
spearing - the only dedicated holding midfielder
you add all that up and it's a selection headache but it is a nice headache to have.
I love the way teams deep deeper to counter Bellers' pace too. 😉
Good post. One comment only - Enrique is unquestionably a better fullback than Johnny Rockets, much though I liked the ginger-nutted Norwegian.
Good post. One comment only - Enrique is unquestionably a better fullback than Johnny Rockets, much though I liked the ginger-nutted Norwegian.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=48525.msg1475491#msg1475491 date=1328102948]
I love the way teams deep deeper to counter Bellers' pace too. 😉
Good post. One comment only - Enrique is unquestionably a better fullback than Johnny Rockets, much though I liked the ginger-nutted Norwegian.
[/quote]
I've got to ask how you can make such a conclusion based on half a season Jules?
JAR was part of the best defense in the league during several full seasons. He scored some of the most spectacular goals Anfield has ever seen. For a little posterity, he was the one who assisted Gerrard in the greatest comeback of all time at Istanbul.
I'm pretty happy with Enrique but he's got some way to go, IMO, before he's got a right to be seen as our best LB since last century.
I love the way teams deep deeper to counter Bellers' pace too. 😉
Good post. One comment only - Enrique is unquestionably a better fullback than Johnny Rockets, much though I liked the ginger-nutted Norwegian.
[/quote]
I've got to ask how you can make such a conclusion based on half a season Jules?
JAR was part of the best defense in the league during several full seasons. He scored some of the most spectacular goals Anfield has ever seen. For a little posterity, he was the one who assisted Gerrard in the greatest comeback of all time at Istanbul.
I'm pretty happy with Enrique but he's got some way to go, IMO, before he's got a right to be seen as our best LB since last century.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=48525.msg1475546#msg1475546 date=1328106806]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=48525.msg1475491#msg1475491 date=1328102948]
I love the way teams deep deeper to counter Bellers' pace too. 😉
Good post. One comment only - Enrique is unquestionably a better fullback than Johnny Rockets, much though I liked the ginger-nutted Norwegian.
[/quote]
I've got to ask how you can make such a conclusion based on half a season Jules?
JAR was part of the best defense in the league during several full seasons. He scored some of the most spectacular goals Anfield has ever seen. For a little posterity, he was the one who assisted Gerrard in the greatest comeback of all time at Istanbul.
I'm pretty happy with Enrique but he's got some way to go, IMO, before he's got a right to be seen as our best LB since last century.
[/quote]
Not wanting to answer for Jules Wizardry, but from my perspective, and as I see it in a similar way, it is patently obvious that Enrique thinks and acts more like a defender during the time we have had him, and indeed before that at Newcastle than Riise ever did in his time with us.
As I said in a previous post, Riise is much like Glen, not a brilliant defender but worth his place if he is performing going forward which he generally did, but now we have someone that can defend and get forward. You have to go back a long way to find a good defender and left back.
Just as Johnson could be classed as part of the best back four in the league currently it does not make him a great defender, and we all know he isn't.
regards
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=48525.msg1475491#msg1475491 date=1328102948]
I love the way teams deep deeper to counter Bellers' pace too. 😉
Good post. One comment only - Enrique is unquestionably a better fullback than Johnny Rockets, much though I liked the ginger-nutted Norwegian.
[/quote]
I've got to ask how you can make such a conclusion based on half a season Jules?
JAR was part of the best defense in the league during several full seasons. He scored some of the most spectacular goals Anfield has ever seen. For a little posterity, he was the one who assisted Gerrard in the greatest comeback of all time at Istanbul.
I'm pretty happy with Enrique but he's got some way to go, IMO, before he's got a right to be seen as our best LB since last century.
[/quote]
Not wanting to answer for Jules Wizardry, but from my perspective, and as I see it in a similar way, it is patently obvious that Enrique thinks and acts more like a defender during the time we have had him, and indeed before that at Newcastle than Riise ever did in his time with us.
As I said in a previous post, Riise is much like Glen, not a brilliant defender but worth his place if he is performing going forward which he generally did, but now we have someone that can defend and get forward. You have to go back a long way to find a good defender and left back.
Just as Johnson could be classed as part of the best back four in the league currently it does not make him a great defender, and we all know he isn't.
regards
I think spearing deserves a bit more than 'he's the only holding midfielder' .
Imo he's been great, and his passing is superb, he's always in the mix whether we're closing in our half or the oppositions.
We missed him when he didn't play. My man of the match from yesterdays game.
And Enrique has got a long way to go in surpassing riise and finnan as our best full back.
Besides that I pretty much agree.
Imo he's been great, and his passing is superb, he's always in the mix whether we're closing in our half or the oppositions.
We missed him when he didn't play. My man of the match from yesterdays game.
And Enrique has got a long way to go in surpassing riise and finnan as our best full back.
Besides that I pretty much agree.
[quote author=mike2903 link=topic=48525.msg1475572#msg1475572 date=1328108419]
I think spearing deserves a bit more than 'he's the only holding midfielder' .
Imo he's been great, and his passing is superb, he's always in the mix whether we're closing in our half or the oppositions.
We missed him when he didn't play. My man of the match from yesterdays game.
And Enrique has got a long way to go in surpassing riise and finnan as our best full back.
Besides that I pretty much agree.
[/quote]
I thought finnan was good but very overrated on this board. put it this way I rated arbeloa higher (a very underrated fullback). for me the high water mark for a fullback is babbel. everything I believe a fullback should be babbel was (and then some).
I think spearing deserves a bit more than 'he's the only holding midfielder' .
Imo he's been great, and his passing is superb, he's always in the mix whether we're closing in our half or the oppositions.
We missed him when he didn't play. My man of the match from yesterdays game.
And Enrique has got a long way to go in surpassing riise and finnan as our best full back.
Besides that I pretty much agree.
[/quote]
I thought finnan was good but very overrated on this board. put it this way I rated arbeloa higher (a very underrated fullback). for me the high water mark for a fullback is babbel. everything I believe a fullback should be babbel was (and then some).
[quote author=mike2903 link=topic=48525.msg1475572#msg1475572 date=1328108419]
I think spearing deserves a bit more than 'he's the only holding midfielder' .
Imo he's been great, and his passing is superb, he's always in the mix whether we're closing in our half or the oppositions.
We missed him when he didn't play. My man of the match from yesterdays game.
And Enrique has got a long way to go in surpassing riise and finnan as our best full back.
Besides that I pretty much agree.
[/quote]
I think we were specifically talking about left back in which case , no he hasn't. He might have some way to go to be better than Barney Rubble, but Riise was, at best, an average defender.
regards
I think spearing deserves a bit more than 'he's the only holding midfielder' .
Imo he's been great, and his passing is superb, he's always in the mix whether we're closing in our half or the oppositions.
We missed him when he didn't play. My man of the match from yesterdays game.
And Enrique has got a long way to go in surpassing riise and finnan as our best full back.
Besides that I pretty much agree.
[/quote]
I think we were specifically talking about left back in which case , no he hasn't. He might have some way to go to be better than Barney Rubble, but Riise was, at best, an average defender.
regards
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=48525.msg1475563#msg1475563 date=1328107868]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=48525.msg1475546#msg1475546 date=1328106806]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=48525.msg1475491#msg1475491 date=1328102948]
I love the way teams deep deeper to counter Bellers' pace too. 😉
Good post. One comment only - Enrique is unquestionably a better fullback than Johnny Rockets, much though I liked the ginger-nutted Norwegian.
[/quote]
I've got to ask how you can make such a conclusion based on half a season Jules?
JAR was part of the best defense in the league during several full seasons. He scored some of the most spectacular goals Anfield has ever seen. For a little posterity, he was the one who assisted Gerrard in the greatest comeback of all time at Istanbul.
I'm pretty happy with Enrique but he's got some way to go, IMO, before he's got a right to be seen as our best LB since last century.
[/quote]
Not wanting to answer for Jules Wizardry, but from my perspective, and as I see it in a similar way, it is patently obvious that Enrique thinks and acts more like a defender during the time we have had him, and indeed before that at Newcastle than Riise ever did in his time with us.
As I said in a previous post, Riise is much like Glen, not a brilliant defender but worth his place if he is performing going forward which he generally did, but now we have someone that can defend and get forward. You have to go back a long way to find a good defender and left back.
Just as Johnson could be classed as part of the best back four in the league currently it does not make him a great defender, and we all know he isn't.
regards
[/quote]
Couldn't have put it any better myself. Would add a couple of supplementary points: (a) Johnny Rockets had the great good fortune to play outside one of the best CBs we've ever had, who pulled JAR's nuts out of the fire on a regular basis, and (b) attacking skills - which I agree JAR had (I always preferred him at LM for that very reason) - are an optional extra, tops, in a fullback IMO.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=48525.msg1475546#msg1475546 date=1328106806]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=48525.msg1475491#msg1475491 date=1328102948]
I love the way teams deep deeper to counter Bellers' pace too. 😉
Good post. One comment only - Enrique is unquestionably a better fullback than Johnny Rockets, much though I liked the ginger-nutted Norwegian.
[/quote]
I've got to ask how you can make such a conclusion based on half a season Jules?
JAR was part of the best defense in the league during several full seasons. He scored some of the most spectacular goals Anfield has ever seen. For a little posterity, he was the one who assisted Gerrard in the greatest comeback of all time at Istanbul.
I'm pretty happy with Enrique but he's got some way to go, IMO, before he's got a right to be seen as our best LB since last century.
[/quote]
Not wanting to answer for Jules Wizardry, but from my perspective, and as I see it in a similar way, it is patently obvious that Enrique thinks and acts more like a defender during the time we have had him, and indeed before that at Newcastle than Riise ever did in his time with us.
As I said in a previous post, Riise is much like Glen, not a brilliant defender but worth his place if he is performing going forward which he generally did, but now we have someone that can defend and get forward. You have to go back a long way to find a good defender and left back.
Just as Johnson could be classed as part of the best back four in the league currently it does not make him a great defender, and we all know he isn't.
regards
[/quote]
Couldn't have put it any better myself. Would add a couple of supplementary points: (a) Johnny Rockets had the great good fortune to play outside one of the best CBs we've ever had, who pulled JAR's nuts out of the fire on a regular basis, and (b) attacking skills - which I agree JAR had (I always preferred him at LM for that very reason) - are an optional extra, tops, in a fullback IMO.
carrols been decent, i think the praise for him in the last 2 games has been a little bit over the top but thats understandable. the main thing is he is getting better, and he deserves some game time to keep improving. i remember someone saying a while ago that he didnt do a massive amount of fitness training a while ago and that our medical team wanted him to bulk up, and that in the short term it might hamper him, as he'd be knackerd, but as his fitness levels improved so would he, id like to think thats where he's at now.
That was me, & it was a guess based on a few comments in interviews, how laboured he's looked & how we've treated players in the past.
I think it's right though, his form & fitness suggest so anyway.
I think it's right though, his form & fitness suggest so anyway.
Enrique has shown alot more good than bad. I think generally he's been a good signing - so far. My question marks with him are over his insistence to play himself out of trouble by doing that pirouette he does, which is great when it works and almost suicidal when it doesn't. He's also had an issue on a few occasions with cutting out crosses, which Reina has bollocked him for ALOT. And then there's his tendency to make the wrong decision in the final attacking third. All things that can be ironed out over time.
On the plus side, he's quick, strong as an ox (his upperbody strength is excellent) and positionally fairly sound for the most part.
I know Riise's short-comings, but as pointed out, he was part of an excellent back four and he's a much better defender than Glen Johnson, that's almost an insult. He was also alot better at going forward than Enrique is and more decisive.
Let's just agree that on the evidence so far, Enrique looks one of the small minority of good left sided players we've had over the last 20 odd years, and I'd put Riise in that group too.
On the plus side, he's quick, strong as an ox (his upperbody strength is excellent) and positionally fairly sound for the most part.
I know Riise's short-comings, but as pointed out, he was part of an excellent back four and he's a much better defender than Glen Johnson, that's almost an insult. He was also alot better at going forward than Enrique is and more decisive.
Let's just agree that on the evidence so far, Enrique looks one of the small minority of good left sided players we've had over the last 20 odd years, and I'd put Riise in that group too.
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48525.msg1475680#msg1475680 date=1328123881]
Enrique has shown alot more good than bad. I think generally he's been a good signing - so far. My question marks with him are over his insistence to play himself out of trouble but doing that pirouette he does, which is great when it works and almost suicidal when it doesn't. He's also had an issue on a few occasions with cutting out crosses, which Reina has bollocked him for ALOT. And then there's his tendency to make the wrong decision in the final attacking third. All things that can be ironed out over time.
On the plus side, he's quick, strong as an ox (his upperbody strength is excellent) and positionally fairly sound for the most part.
I know Riise's short-comings, but as pointed out, he was part of an excellent back four and he's a much better defender than Glen Johnson, that's almost an insult. He was also alot better at going forward than Enrique is and more decisive.
Let's just agree that on the evidence so far, Enrique looks one of the small minority of good left sided players we've had over the last 20 odd years, and I'd put Riise in that group too.
[/quote]
Agree with all of that. Riise was a better defender than he gets credit for, but it did get worse the longer he stayed with us. For the most part he was decent and given who we replaced him with, you have to say that replacing him was a mistake.
Enrique has shown alot more good than bad. I think generally he's been a good signing - so far. My question marks with him are over his insistence to play himself out of trouble but doing that pirouette he does, which is great when it works and almost suicidal when it doesn't. He's also had an issue on a few occasions with cutting out crosses, which Reina has bollocked him for ALOT. And then there's his tendency to make the wrong decision in the final attacking third. All things that can be ironed out over time.
On the plus side, he's quick, strong as an ox (his upperbody strength is excellent) and positionally fairly sound for the most part.
I know Riise's short-comings, but as pointed out, he was part of an excellent back four and he's a much better defender than Glen Johnson, that's almost an insult. He was also alot better at going forward than Enrique is and more decisive.
Let's just agree that on the evidence so far, Enrique looks one of the small minority of good left sided players we've had over the last 20 odd years, and I'd put Riise in that group too.
[/quote]
Agree with all of that. Riise was a better defender than he gets credit for, but it did get worse the longer he stayed with us. For the most part he was decent and given who we replaced him with, you have to say that replacing him was a mistake.
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=48525.msg1475563#msg1475563 date=1328107868]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=48525.msg1475546#msg1475546 date=1328106806]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=48525.msg1475491#msg1475491 date=1328102948]
I love the way teams deep deeper to counter Bellers' pace too. 😉
Good post. One comment only - Enrique is unquestionably a better fullback than Johnny Rockets, much though I liked the ginger-nutted Norwegian.
[/quote]
I've got to ask how you can make such a conclusion based on half a season Jules?
JAR was part of the best defense in the league during several full seasons. He scored some of the most spectacular goals Anfield has ever seen. For a little posterity, he was the one who assisted Gerrard in the greatest comeback of all time at Istanbul.
I'm pretty happy with Enrique but he's got some way to go, IMO, before he's got a right to be seen as our best LB since last century.
[/quote]
Not wanting to answer for Jules Wizardry, but from my perspective, and as I see it in a similar way, it is patently obvious that Enrique thinks and acts more like a defender during the time we have had him, and indeed before that at Newcastle than Riise ever did in his time with us.
As I said in a previous post, Riise is much like Glen, not a brilliant defender but worth his place if he is performing going forward which he generally did, but now we have someone that can defend and get forward. You have to go back a long way to find a good defender and left back.
Just as Johnson could be classed as part of the best back four in the league currently it does not make him a great defender, and we all know he isn't.
regards
[/quote]
Well, I find much of my post has been covered very well by Mark. However, cause I want to respond to you and Jules, Vlad I'll just say my comment was on Enrique being a far better fullback than JAR; I'd agree that Enrique has better defensive skills than Riise but that wasn't the point. As a part of the team Riise was a fantastic servant to some of the great achievements of this club.
I would be one of the last people to argue against how great a CB Sami was JJ but I didn't see it the same way in that he was constantly rescuing Johnny Rockets. I'd agree with that over Traore on a constant basis but Riise was a solid - though not great - defender who didn't have the speed of Enrique to rescue him when he made a mistake. Going forward, however, Riise demonstrated a far greater menace than Jose has done thus far and I'd warrant that Enrique will never match his goal tally. I know you see this as an "optional extra" Jules but that depends upon the way the team plays. At LFC for the past 20 years it's been an imperative rather than optional and the fullbacks need to be judged accordingly.
I'm not saying that Enrique is poor but he's been with us for 6 months; in his first season with us Riise was considered fantastic but, in his later years (as Mark alluded to) his form became inconsistent and prone to fatal errors. Jose may well prove to be a better full back (I accept he's a better defender) than Riise but, IMO, the time to make that call is some time after he's finished season number 1 rather than after 20 odd games.
Just a quick comment for Spidey; Babbel could have been a legend save for his health problems but Finnan is certainly not over rated - he's been our best long term RB for the last 20 years - by some distance - and the moronic amounts of money spent in vain efforts to replace him have served only to demonstrate how superior he was to the other fullbacks going around.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=48525.msg1475546#msg1475546 date=1328106806]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=48525.msg1475491#msg1475491 date=1328102948]
I love the way teams deep deeper to counter Bellers' pace too. 😉
Good post. One comment only - Enrique is unquestionably a better fullback than Johnny Rockets, much though I liked the ginger-nutted Norwegian.
[/quote]
I've got to ask how you can make such a conclusion based on half a season Jules?
JAR was part of the best defense in the league during several full seasons. He scored some of the most spectacular goals Anfield has ever seen. For a little posterity, he was the one who assisted Gerrard in the greatest comeback of all time at Istanbul.
I'm pretty happy with Enrique but he's got some way to go, IMO, before he's got a right to be seen as our best LB since last century.
[/quote]
Not wanting to answer for Jules Wizardry, but from my perspective, and as I see it in a similar way, it is patently obvious that Enrique thinks and acts more like a defender during the time we have had him, and indeed before that at Newcastle than Riise ever did in his time with us.
As I said in a previous post, Riise is much like Glen, not a brilliant defender but worth his place if he is performing going forward which he generally did, but now we have someone that can defend and get forward. You have to go back a long way to find a good defender and left back.
Just as Johnson could be classed as part of the best back four in the league currently it does not make him a great defender, and we all know he isn't.
regards
[/quote]
Well, I find much of my post has been covered very well by Mark. However, cause I want to respond to you and Jules, Vlad I'll just say my comment was on Enrique being a far better fullback than JAR; I'd agree that Enrique has better defensive skills than Riise but that wasn't the point. As a part of the team Riise was a fantastic servant to some of the great achievements of this club.
I would be one of the last people to argue against how great a CB Sami was JJ but I didn't see it the same way in that he was constantly rescuing Johnny Rockets. I'd agree with that over Traore on a constant basis but Riise was a solid - though not great - defender who didn't have the speed of Enrique to rescue him when he made a mistake. Going forward, however, Riise demonstrated a far greater menace than Jose has done thus far and I'd warrant that Enrique will never match his goal tally. I know you see this as an "optional extra" Jules but that depends upon the way the team plays. At LFC for the past 20 years it's been an imperative rather than optional and the fullbacks need to be judged accordingly.
I'm not saying that Enrique is poor but he's been with us for 6 months; in his first season with us Riise was considered fantastic but, in his later years (as Mark alluded to) his form became inconsistent and prone to fatal errors. Jose may well prove to be a better full back (I accept he's a better defender) than Riise but, IMO, the time to make that call is some time after he's finished season number 1 rather than after 20 odd games.
Just a quick comment for Spidey; Babbel could have been a legend save for his health problems but Finnan is certainly not over rated - he's been our best long term RB for the last 20 years - by some distance - and the moronic amounts of money spent in vain efforts to replace him have served only to demonstrate how superior he was to the other fullbacks going around.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=48525.msg1475804#msg1475804 date=1328145516]
Just a quick comment for Spidey; Babbel could have been a legend save for his health problems but Finnan is certainly not over rated - he's been our best long term RB for the last 20 years - by some distance - and the moronic amounts of money spent in vain efforts to replace him have served only to demonstrate how superior he was to the other fullbacks going around.
[/quote]
still think arbeloa was better and I (think) he was cheaper. I actually liked finann, he was solid, dependable and he could deliver quality crosses with either foot but I just like how arbeloa positioned himself (usually further up the pitch) yeah yeah a defenders job is to defend, I see fullbacks as an attacking outlet and if a fullback isn't consistently contributing to attacks (even by making decoy runs for the wide midfielder) then I don't think he is doing all of his job. that's why I think finnan was overrated because I don't think he gave enough support for the wide midfielder. imho arbeloa was better.
Just a quick comment for Spidey; Babbel could have been a legend save for his health problems but Finnan is certainly not over rated - he's been our best long term RB for the last 20 years - by some distance - and the moronic amounts of money spent in vain efforts to replace him have served only to demonstrate how superior he was to the other fullbacks going around.
[/quote]
still think arbeloa was better and I (think) he was cheaper. I actually liked finann, he was solid, dependable and he could deliver quality crosses with either foot but I just like how arbeloa positioned himself (usually further up the pitch) yeah yeah a defenders job is to defend, I see fullbacks as an attacking outlet and if a fullback isn't consistently contributing to attacks (even by making decoy runs for the wide midfielder) then I don't think he is doing all of his job. that's why I think finnan was overrated because I don't think he gave enough support for the wide midfielder. imho arbeloa was better.
I also think you've done him a bit of a disservice regarding his forward play, he was a great crosser of the ball, a good passer long and short range and positionally excellent. Arbeloa had a bit more skill about him (hardly surprising coming from Spain) but Finnan was at least as good regards build up play.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48525.msg1475847#msg1475847 date=1328180591]
Finnan was better and more consistent than Arbeloa. Both were very good though, but Arbey had his issues plenty of times and had a few run-ins with other players because of it, by and large though, he was a cracking fullback.
Babbel and Finnan for me though.
[/quote]
if I were to list all my favorite fullbacks you would see a common theme of them being accomplised at going forward. I'm not talking carlos where he doesn't give a fuck about what happens behind him I mean a fullback who supports the wide midfielder, makes decoy runs, makes crosses and generally has a presence in the opposition half and to my mind finann didn't do enough of that. when he DID go forwards he was extremely accomplised and was an excellent crosser of the ball but he didn't support the attack enough for my liking, too content to hang back.
arbeloa nearly always got forwards when the oppertunity presented itself, nearly always burst a lung to make sure the wide midfielder either had a passing option or had that extra yard of space because bob was dragging away a defender. each to their own but no way do I think finann was a better fullback than arbeloa, no chance, he didn't do enough for me in the opposition half.
I'm sure someone will post stats that finann had more goals but that's by the by for me, the amount of goals a fullback scores is negligible compared the benefit of a consistent presence in the opposition half.
Finnan was better and more consistent than Arbeloa. Both were very good though, but Arbey had his issues plenty of times and had a few run-ins with other players because of it, by and large though, he was a cracking fullback.
Babbel and Finnan for me though.
[/quote]
if I were to list all my favorite fullbacks you would see a common theme of them being accomplised at going forward. I'm not talking carlos where he doesn't give a fuck about what happens behind him I mean a fullback who supports the wide midfielder, makes decoy runs, makes crosses and generally has a presence in the opposition half and to my mind finann didn't do enough of that. when he DID go forwards he was extremely accomplised and was an excellent crosser of the ball but he didn't support the attack enough for my liking, too content to hang back.
arbeloa nearly always got forwards when the oppertunity presented itself, nearly always burst a lung to make sure the wide midfielder either had a passing option or had that extra yard of space because bob was dragging away a defender. each to their own but no way do I think finann was a better fullback than arbeloa, no chance, he didn't do enough for me in the opposition half.
I'm sure someone will post stats that finann had more goals but that's by the by for me, the amount of goals a fullback scores is negligible compared the benefit of a consistent presence in the opposition half.
Finnan was more likely to assist or score a goal compared to Arbeloa. Arbeloa had a bit more pace and was better at doing the overlapping runs. But i feel you put too much importance to that aspect of a full back. Finnan was brilliant at crossing from deep. The fact that he was able to cross with either foot served him well...if he couldn't beat his man, he was easily comfortably to check inside and cross with his left...
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=48525.msg1475863#msg1475863 date=1328182701]
Finnan was more likely to assist or score a goal compared to Arbeloa. Arbeloa had a bit more pace and was better at doing the overlapping runs. But i feel you put too much importance to that aspect of a full back. Finnan was brilliant at crossing from deep. The fact that he was able to cross with either foot served him well...if he couldn't beat his man, he was easily comfortably to check inside and cross with his left...
[/quote]
I thought finann was excellent WHEN he went forwards but he didn't get forwards enough which puts more pressure on the people whose job it is to attack (but that's okay right, he is after doing his primary job of defending). arbeloa absolutely came into his own in the season we pushed manu for the title purely because he was a presense in the opposition half.
Finnan was more likely to assist or score a goal compared to Arbeloa. Arbeloa had a bit more pace and was better at doing the overlapping runs. But i feel you put too much importance to that aspect of a full back. Finnan was brilliant at crossing from deep. The fact that he was able to cross with either foot served him well...if he couldn't beat his man, he was easily comfortably to check inside and cross with his left...
[/quote]
I thought finann was excellent WHEN he went forwards but he didn't get forwards enough which puts more pressure on the people whose job it is to attack (but that's okay right, he is after doing his primary job of defending). arbeloa absolutely came into his own in the season we pushed manu for the title purely because he was a presense in the opposition half.
Riise was better than Enrique. Finnan was better than Arbeloa.
If Scholes wasn't 389 that game might have been different.
Carrol is finally starting to look like a 8M pound player and that's got to be a good thing.
Adam has poo stats compared to Lucas but actually does stuff in games.
If Scholes wasn't 389 that game might have been different.
Carrol is finally starting to look like a 8M pound player and that's got to be a good thing.
Adam has poo stats compared to Lucas but actually does stuff in games.
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48525.msg1475938#msg1475938 date=1328190101]
We'll get beat by Spurs.
[/quote]
they have quite quickly become a bit of a bogey team, but they only played v 9 men last time and it took them until the last minutes to make the goals, I think we can show the upstarts what we are about and give them a caning
We'll get beat by Spurs.
[/quote]
they have quite quickly become a bit of a bogey team, but they only played v 9 men last time and it took them until the last minutes to make the goals, I think we can show the upstarts what we are about and give them a caning
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48525.msg1475938#msg1475938 date=1328190101]
We'll get beat by Spurs.
[/quote]
I also suspect this, but that tends to mean we'll win.
We'll get beat by Spurs.
[/quote]
I also suspect this, but that tends to mean we'll win.
[quote author=willby link=topic=48525.msg1#msg1 date=1328193418]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48525.msg1475938#msg1475938 date=1328190101]
We'll get beat by Spurs.
[/quote]
with Suarez back and well rested, I see us going on a long winning run, starting Monday!
[/quote]
I'm being pedantic, but we have three wins out of three now, so surely we're on that winning run already?
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48525.msg1475938#msg1475938 date=1328190101]
We'll get beat by Spurs.
[/quote]
with Suarez back and well rested, I see us going on a long winning run, starting Monday!
[/quote]
I'm being pedantic, but we have three wins out of three now, so surely we're on that winning run already?
Re: Re: manu and wolves thoughts
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48525.msg1#msg1 date=1328197367]
[quote author=willby link=topic=48525.msg1#msg1 date=1328193418]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48525.msg1475938#msg1475938 date=1328190101]
We'll get beat by Spurs.
[/quote]
with Suarez back and well rested, I see us going on a long winning run, starting Monday!
[/quote]
I'm being pedantic, but we have three wins out of three now, so surely we're on that winning run already?
[/quote]
Are we? You sure...
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48525.msg1#msg1 date=1328197367]
[quote author=willby link=topic=48525.msg1#msg1 date=1328193418]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48525.msg1475938#msg1475938 date=1328190101]
We'll get beat by Spurs.
[/quote]
with Suarez back and well rested, I see us going on a long winning run, starting Monday!
[/quote]
I'm being pedantic, but we have three wins out of three now, so surely we're on that winning run already?
[/quote]
Are we? You sure...
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