Lucas and our best 11.

[the count]

[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=41569.msg1160918#msg1160918 date=1282655132]
Like Saint George I have stayed pretty quiet about Lucas.
I have always wanted him to come good and I have tried to support him and in some cases defend him due to his age and his willingness to stand up to all the negativity he receives.

The fact of the matter, and it should be clear as day to everyone who watches us, is that he is NEVER going to be good enough to be a regular starter for a side that wins leagues/trophies. No team on earth can carry a passenger that heavy and win things. No team. The only positive is that he hasn't been in the starting XI for either of the first two league matches until Mash threw his toys out of the pram yesterday.
[/quote]

That sums it up nicely Stu.

 

[gene hughes]

I'd be very tempted to start Babel. Probably because I haven't seen him play much for a long time.

Fact is - he scores.

 

[Le Chacal]

I said Lucas was shite before Brendan did...anyway watching that useless passenger giving the ball and freekicks away and running like a headless chicken all over the place makes me sick every week when i see his name on the starting 11.
He's partly at fault for 1st and 3rd goal but having said that our defending was shocking on all 3 goals.

The only positive is Gerrard is back to his best.

 

[Terrier]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=41569.msg1160956#msg1160956 date=1282657259]
I said Lucas was shite before Brendan did...anyway watching that useless passenger giving the ball and freekicks away and running like a headless chicken all over the place makes me sick every week when i see his name on the starting 11.
He's partly at fault for 1st and 3rd goal but having said that our defending was shocking on all 3 goals.

The only positive is Gerrard is back to his best.
[/quote]


Bollox, I was the first to call how shit the useless shitbox was.

His shitness was evident from the first time he took the field in a pre-season friendly and played like a useless, wimpy shitbox.

 

[Le Chacal]

[quote author=Terrier link=topic=41569.msg1160962#msg1160962 date=1282657392]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=41569.msg1160956#msg1160956 date=1282657259]
I said Lucas was shite before Brendan did...anyway watching that useless passenger giving the ball and freekicks away and running like a headless chicken all over the place makes me sick every week when i see his name on the starting 11.
He's partly at fault for 1st and 3rd goal but having said that our defending was shocking on all 3 goals.

The only positive is Gerrard is back to his best.
[/quote]


Bollox, I was the first to call how shit the useless shitbox was.

His shitness was evident from the first time he took the field in a pre-season friendly and played like a useless, wimpy shitbox.
[/quote]
Ha! ok you win 😉

 

[Buddha]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41569.msg1160871#msg1160871 date=1282653730]
What about Babel? Would he be in anyones 11? Ahead of jovanovic maybe?

He was awful against Trabz, but then popped up with a great goal and in 2 minutes he did more last night than everyone else we had on the pitch.


God its awful.
[/quote]

Babel for Jovanovic (who I suspect is a very average but likeable player - another Kuyt) and I'd agree with your line-up Oncy.

Kind of highlights the need for another left winger and decent striker to back-up Torres and enable us to go 4-4-2 when needed. If we do go 4-4-2 under no circumstances do I ever want to see Kuyt on the right (stick Johnson ahead of Kelly on the right) or Jovanovic on the left (play Joe Cole there or new player).

 

[Mamma Mia]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41569.msg1160911#msg1160911 date=1282654862]
Behave Terrier, check the threads about Lucas, he's had loads of support on here for a looooong time
[/quote]

Football supporters in supporting a player at their club shocka?

 

[spider-Neil]

without jumping on the 'lucas is shit bandwagon' because let's face it, he's hardly alone this season what cracks me up about lucas is when he should be moving forwards to support the attack he sits and when he should be sitting back to protect the back line he is nowhere to be seen, ha ha his positional sense is worse than skrtel's.

 

[Le Chacal]

We badly need a striker. Thats quite obvious.
We have as many chances as City but we lose 3 nil.
N'gog is a decent backup striker but shouldnt start week in week out.

At the moment Id play Poulsen insteadof Lucas and Maxi behind Torres instead of N'gog

 

[Squiggles]

------------------------------------Reina--------------------------------------
-------Johnson------Carragher----------Skrtel------------Aurelio---------
----------------------------------Poulsen------------------------------
------------------Gerrard--------------------Cole------------------
---------Maxi--------------------Torres---------------------Babel------

 

[zlatan18]

Reina
Johnson Skrtel Agger Kelly
Poulsen
Gerrard J.Cole
Babel Pacheco
Torres

 

[spider-Neil]

the bottom line is roy needs to decide whether he wants to play 4-4-2 or 4-5-1, once he knows which one he wants to play he needs to play people that are more suited to that formation, for example (imho) kuyt isn't suited to play 4-4-2.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41569.msg1161012#msg1161012 date=1282659016]
the bottom line is roy needs to decide whether he wants to play 4-4-2 or 4-5-1, once he knows which one he wants to play he needs to play people that are more suited to that formation, for example (imho) kuyt isn't suited to play 4-4-2.
[/quote]

Why? United don't play the same formation every week. Ditto Chelsea.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=41569.msg1161016#msg1161016 date=1282659074]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41569.msg1161012#msg1161012 date=1282659016]
the bottom line is roy needs to decide whether he wants to play 4-4-2 or 4-5-1, once he knows which one he wants to play he needs to play people that are more suited to that formation, for example (imho) kuyt isn't suited to play 4-4-2.
[/quote]

Why? United don't play the same formation every week. Ditto Chelsea.
[/quote]

Agreed,but we probably dont have the quality for interchangeable formations.

Just like we didnt last year.


It's frustrating to see our depth.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=41569.msg1161016#msg1161016 date=1282659074]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41569.msg1161012#msg1161012 date=1282659016]
the bottom line is roy needs to decide whether he wants to play 4-4-2 or 4-5-1, once he knows which one he wants to play he needs to play people that are more suited to that formation, for example (imho) kuyt isn't suited to play 4-4-2.
[/quote]

Why? United don't play the same formation every week. Ditto Chelsea.
[/quote]

is it fair to say chelsea have the players to make both formations work but we don't?

 

[refugee]

------------------------------------Reina--------------------------------------
-------Johnson------Carragher----------Agger------------Aurelio---------
------------------Gerrard--------------------Poulsen------------------
---------Maxi--------------------Torres---------------------Cole------

We are one player (minimum) short of a starting eleven, and we have a wide range of positions we can buy from
- An attacking midfielder to play behind Torres
- A defensive midfielder to let Gerrard play behind Torres
- A winger to let Cole go in the middle (although I think Cole is better out wide)
- A striker that can play with Torres

We also need a left back, desperately.

Kuyt and Babel are options but both have "foibles" (Kuyt is slow and has the touch of a rapist and Babel is just stupid). Lucas could go in the middle but he's crap.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41569.msg1161021#msg1161021 date=1282659336]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=41569.msg1161016#msg1161016 date=1282659074]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41569.msg1161012#msg1161012 date=1282659016]
the bottom line is roy needs to decide whether he wants to play 4-4-2 or 4-5-1, once he knows which one he wants to play he needs to play people that are more suited to that formation, for example (imho) kuyt isn't suited to play 4-4-2.
[/quote]

Why? United don't play the same formation every week. Ditto Chelsea.
[/quote]

is it fair to say chelsea have the players to make both formations work but we don't?
[/quote]

Perhaps but who comes into their side if they change formation? Same with United.
They drop one player and bring another player. It's not a huge change. For example away from home in Europe Cuntychops usually drops Berb and plays Park in midfield. One change. Chelsea sometime play Anelka out wide or they drop him and played Cole, now Yossi, out there. Again ONE CHANGE. Squad size doesn't come into it, its about the quality of the player. We shouldn't be comparing ourselves to Chelsea anyway, they're the best team in Europe right now.

 

[singlerider]

We don't really have the personnel to play 442 full stop.

Unless it's a midfield 4 of Maxi-Poulsen-Gerrard-Cole, which I can't imagine being great but won't pass judgement on until I see it.

It still brings the problem of who to play up top with Torres, and whether that'll actually work.

We've got the players for 4231, we should probably play 4231.

And once again if Torres is out, we're fucked. Maybe then we play 442, with Dirk and Ngog up top, who knows

 

[Rafiagra]

Lucas simply cannot be in a 'best XI'. it just isnt possible.

It would be stronger to have only 10 players if the eleventh was going to be him.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Rafiagra link=topic=41569.msg1161096#msg1161096 date=1282666670]
Lucas simply cannot be in a 'best XI'. it just isnt possible.

It would be stronger to have only 10 players if the eleventh was going to be him.
[/quote]

of course he could

Best ineffective XI

 

[Woland]

I thought that with Rafa gone Roy might work with Lucas on his zonal passing. I know its old fashioned but I think he'd be much better if he passed the ball directly to a man, rather than just into zones.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=crump link=topic=41569.msg1161117#msg1161117 date=1282667522]
I thought that with Rafa gone Roy might work with Lucas on his colouring in the headwand ward
[/quote]

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=41569.msg1160879#msg1160879 date=1282653871]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41569.msg1160871#msg1160871 date=1282653730]
What about Babel? Would he be in anyones 11? Ahead of jovanovic maybe?

He was awful against Trabz, but then popped up with a great goal and in 2 minutes he did more last night than everyone else we had on the pitch.


God its awful.
[/quote]

I'd have Babel on the bench for every game, and bring him on early when we need goals/ to increase the tempo / stretch a tired defence / etc.
[/quote]

This. Babel is best deployed as a sub.

 

[Home and A Gay]

Reina
Johnson Carra Agger Aurelio

Poulsen

Gerrard Suso

Cole Maxi
Torres

Dont care if Suso in there looks stupid at this time.Would much rather have an inexperienced rough diamond than a slow good for nothing body like Lucas.

 

[Rafiagra]

Lucas has finally been exposed in a 442.

As mentioned before, he was able to hide in a 4231.

One of our main problems last night was the Gerrard obviously felt he had to babysit Lucas and was more concerned with covering for him. It was only when we went 2-0 down that Gerrard obviously thought 'fuck it' and starting getting forward.

In a 442 you need either :

1 to sit in and the other to constantly go forward, or
to cover for one another

Lucas isnt good enough to sit in and cover, and he is crap at going forward. He has no place in our team.

Btw, Glenjo was fucking crap last night too. Maybe he's distracted at the mo. Should concentrate on playing footy.

 

[Mojo]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41569.msg1160882#msg1160882 date=1282653916]
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=41569.msg1160876#msg1160876 date=1282653819]
That useless shitbag would not be in our starting line up had Mascherano not bent us over and shat on us.
[/quote]Mate you wont hear any arguments from me. Im not blaming Lucas for last night at all. Im saying why have succesive managers given him time of day? Poulsen was fit last night, and im no Poulsen fan but how could he be worse?
[/quote]

Well, I blame him for the 2nd goal. If you have a look at the replay, when the corner was taken, he was marking Tevez. As Tevez spun around, the useless dick fuck mother fuckin cuntish arsehole just carried on backtacking to god knows where leaving Tevez free to tap the ball in.
God, I hate him with a passion. Never before have I had contempt for any player, let alone one of our own!