Liverpool VS Burnley Official match thread and team confirmation
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[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35784.msg942390#msg942390 date=1252768449]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35784.msg942388#msg942388 date=1252768335]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35784.msg942386#msg942386 date=1252767906]
How's Lucas getting on please?
[/quote]
Usual average self
Had an alright 20 yard shot in the first half.
[/quote]
Cheers Squigs.
[/quote]
Disagree. I thought Lucas had a great game on Saturday. Did the job he was asked perfectly well. His tackling and passing was vastly improved and he ticked the play over nicely whilst breaking up Burnleys play. It was a big improvement. I'm suprised people think he had his usual weak game - I certainly didn't think he did nor did many of the people I spoke to at the game.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35784.msg942388#msg942388 date=1252768335]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35784.msg942386#msg942386 date=1252767906]
How's Lucas getting on please?
[/quote]
Usual average self
Had an alright 20 yard shot in the first half.
[/quote]
Cheers Squigs.
[/quote]
Disagree. I thought Lucas had a great game on Saturday. Did the job he was asked perfectly well. His tackling and passing was vastly improved and he ticked the play over nicely whilst breaking up Burnleys play. It was a big improvement. I'm suprised people think he had his usual weak game - I certainly didn't think he did nor did many of the people I spoke to at the game.
S
Squiggles
Guest
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S
Squiggles
Guest
I didn't say he was poor, it wasn't a dig.
I simply think he had a basic job to do of distributing the ball and breaking up attacking play, and he got on with it. Gerrard at times playing in a deeper role took the emphasis off Lucas from delivering more penetrative/effective balls from the middle of the park, leaving him to just keep is simple, as per. When he's partnered with Mascherano he's judged by all together different criteria.
He's not the liability he's made out to be and has toughened up over the summer, but a "great" performance yesterday is going overboard.
I simply think he had a basic job to do of distributing the ball and breaking up attacking play, and he got on with it. Gerrard at times playing in a deeper role took the emphasis off Lucas from delivering more penetrative/effective balls from the middle of the park, leaving him to just keep is simple, as per. When he's partnered with Mascherano he's judged by all together different criteria.
He's not the liability he's made out to be and has toughened up over the summer, but a "great" performance yesterday is going overboard.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=35784.msg943239#msg943239 date=1252926979]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35784.msg942390#msg942390 date=1252768449]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35784.msg942388#msg942388 date=1252768335]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35784.msg942386#msg942386 date=1252767906]
How's Lucas getting on please?
[/quote]
Usual average self
Had an alright 20 yard shot in the first half.
[/quote]
Cheers Squigs.
[/quote]
Disagree. I thought Lucas had a great game on Saturday. Did the job he was asked perfectly well. His tackling and passing was vastly improved and he ticked the play over nicely whilst breaking up Burnleys play. It was a big improvement. I'm suprised people think he had his usual weak game - I certainly didn't think he did nor did many of the people I spoke to at the game.
[/quote]
I thought he did well too Sean. Here is what I wrote in another thread about him.
Lucas looked accomplished today and had a fine game. He won some 50/50 that the 'haters' told us he wasn't capable of ever winning. He advanced into forward positions, he took shots, and more importantly him playing didn't cost us the game as many feared would happen if we continued to play him.
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35784.msg942390#msg942390 date=1252768449]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35784.msg942388#msg942388 date=1252768335]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35784.msg942386#msg942386 date=1252767906]
How's Lucas getting on please?
[/quote]
Usual average self
Had an alright 20 yard shot in the first half.
[/quote]
Cheers Squigs.
[/quote]
Disagree. I thought Lucas had a great game on Saturday. Did the job he was asked perfectly well. His tackling and passing was vastly improved and he ticked the play over nicely whilst breaking up Burnleys play. It was a big improvement. I'm suprised people think he had his usual weak game - I certainly didn't think he did nor did many of the people I spoke to at the game.
[/quote]
I thought he did well too Sean. Here is what I wrote in another thread about him.
Lucas looked accomplished today and had a fine game. He won some 50/50 that the 'haters' told us he wasn't capable of ever winning. He advanced into forward positions, he took shots, and more importantly him playing didn't cost us the game as many feared would happen if we continued to play him.
S
Squiggles
Guest
Only nutters have ever said Lucas directly cost us games - not doing do is hardly an achievement for someone pulling on a red shirt. It harks back the the Traore days.
The only things I will say about him is: 1) He is turning into a Premiership footballer 2) Never partner him with Mascherano.
The only things I will say about him is: 1) He is turning into a Premiership footballer 2) Never partner him with Mascherano.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35784.msg943244#msg943244 date=1252927778]
I didn't say he was poor, it wasn't a dig.
I simply think he had a basic job to do of distributing the ball and breaking up attacking play, and he got on with it. Gerrard at times playing in a deeper role took the emphasis off Lucas from delivering more penetrative/effective balls from the middle of the park, leaving him to just keep is simple, as per. When he's partnered with Mascherano he's judged by all together different criteria.
He's not the liability he's made out to be and has toughened up over the summer, but a "great" performance yesterday is going overboard.
[/quote]
OK. That 'basic' job is what people croon over Mascherano doing strangely enough. Saying he was "average" is not giving him enough credit though. Let's say he had a decent game and was much improved. The improvement is encouraging and long may it continue.
I didn't say he was poor, it wasn't a dig.
I simply think he had a basic job to do of distributing the ball and breaking up attacking play, and he got on with it. Gerrard at times playing in a deeper role took the emphasis off Lucas from delivering more penetrative/effective balls from the middle of the park, leaving him to just keep is simple, as per. When he's partnered with Mascherano he's judged by all together different criteria.
He's not the liability he's made out to be and has toughened up over the summer, but a "great" performance yesterday is going overboard.
[/quote]
OK. That 'basic' job is what people croon over Mascherano doing strangely enough. Saying he was "average" is not giving him enough credit though. Let's say he had a decent game and was much improved. The improvement is encouraging and long may it continue.
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=35784.msg943249#msg943249 date=1252928230]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35784.msg943244#msg943244 date=1252927778]
I didn't say he was poor, it wasn't a dig.
I simply think he had a basic job to do of distributing the ball and breaking up attacking play, and he got on with it. Gerrard at times playing in a deeper role took the emphasis off Lucas from delivering more penetrative/effective balls from the middle of the park, leaving him to just keep is simple, as per. When he's partnered with Mascherano he's judged by all together different criteria.
He's not the liability he's made out to be and has toughened up over the summer, but a "great" performance yesterday is going overboard.
[/quote]
OK. That 'basic' job is what people croon over Mascherano doing strangely enough. Saying he was "average" is not giving him enough credit though. Let's say he had a decent game and was much improved. The improvement is encouraging and long may it continue.
[/quote]
That's true but my I myself have questioned the logic of playing Mascherano in teams like Burnley at home. I'd agree that partnering Lucas with Gerrard or Aquilani in these type of games could be beneficial because at least he can play the basic passes and is no longer a liability in defence.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35784.msg943244#msg943244 date=1252927778]
I didn't say he was poor, it wasn't a dig.
I simply think he had a basic job to do of distributing the ball and breaking up attacking play, and he got on with it. Gerrard at times playing in a deeper role took the emphasis off Lucas from delivering more penetrative/effective balls from the middle of the park, leaving him to just keep is simple, as per. When he's partnered with Mascherano he's judged by all together different criteria.
He's not the liability he's made out to be and has toughened up over the summer, but a "great" performance yesterday is going overboard.
[/quote]
OK. That 'basic' job is what people croon over Mascherano doing strangely enough. Saying he was "average" is not giving him enough credit though. Let's say he had a decent game and was much improved. The improvement is encouraging and long may it continue.
[/quote]
That's true but my I myself have questioned the logic of playing Mascherano in teams like Burnley at home. I'd agree that partnering Lucas with Gerrard or Aquilani in these type of games could be beneficial because at least he can play the basic passes and is no longer a liability in defence.
I think Lucas is starting to benefit from the same sort of treatment Crouch received when he started to show some signs of worth after being constantly lambasted. Now any criticism is associated with the over the top abuse the player got to begin with and you start having to constantly provide disclaimers.
I thought the team looked fantastic at times on Saturday and Lucas was part of that. He had a decent game overall, but then his ability to put in a decent performance when things are going our way and the senior players decide to show up was never really in question. We have his performance against Newcastle as the official example of that.
These types of games have never really been the problem when it comes to Lucas. It's when the going gets tough that we need to see more from him. He needs to show us that he can step it up and impose himself on the game instead of relying on others to do it for him - guys like Masher have proven their ability to do this time and time again, which is why they get the respect that still eludes Lucas. If and when he demonstrates this sort of quality, I'm positive that attitudes will very quickly change.
I thought the team looked fantastic at times on Saturday and Lucas was part of that. He had a decent game overall, but then his ability to put in a decent performance when things are going our way and the senior players decide to show up was never really in question. We have his performance against Newcastle as the official example of that.
These types of games have never really been the problem when it comes to Lucas. It's when the going gets tough that we need to see more from him. He needs to show us that he can step it up and impose himself on the game instead of relying on others to do it for him - guys like Masher have proven their ability to do this time and time again, which is why they get the respect that still eludes Lucas. If and when he demonstrates this sort of quality, I'm positive that attitudes will very quickly change.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35784.msg943248#msg943248 date=1252928193]
Only nutters have ever said Lucas directly cost us games - not doing do is hardly an achievement for someone pulling on a red shirt. It harks back the the Traore days.
The only things I will say about him is: 1) He is turning into a Premiership footballer 2) Never partner him with Mascherano.
[/quote]
I remember reading a while back (after Villa game) that some posters feared for the three points with the sheer mention of Lucas on the teamsheet. Talk about being over dramatic.
Only nutters have ever said Lucas directly cost us games - not doing do is hardly an achievement for someone pulling on a red shirt. It harks back the the Traore days.
The only things I will say about him is: 1) He is turning into a Premiership footballer 2) Never partner him with Mascherano.
[/quote]
I remember reading a while back (after Villa game) that some posters feared for the three points with the sheer mention of Lucas on the teamsheet. Talk about being over dramatic.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=35784.msg943255#msg943255 date=1252929546]
I think Lucas is starting to benefit from the same sort of treatment Crouch received when he started to show some signs of worth after being constantly lambasted. Now any criticism is associated with the over the top abuse the player got to begin with and you start having to constantly provide disclaimers.
I thought the team looked fantastic at times on Saturday and Lucas was part of that. He had a decent game overall, but then his ability to put in a decent performance when things are going our way and the senior players decide to show up was never really in question. We have his performance against Newcastle as the official example of that.
These types of games have never really been the problem when it comes to Lucas. It's when the going gets tough that we need to see more from him. He needs to show us that he can step it up and impose himself on the game instead of relying on others to do it for him - guys like Masher have proven their ability to do this time and time again, which is why they get the respect that still eludes Lucas. If and when he demonstrates this sort of quality, I'm positive that attitudes will very quickly change.
[/quote]
Exactly, he needs now show he can mix it with the big boys. Hopefully he continues to show increased personality and continues to get on the ball and not allow the game just pass him by.
He won a few 50/50 aswel on Saturday. Some posters would have you believe he has never won a 50/50.
I think Lucas is starting to benefit from the same sort of treatment Crouch received when he started to show some signs of worth after being constantly lambasted. Now any criticism is associated with the over the top abuse the player got to begin with and you start having to constantly provide disclaimers.
I thought the team looked fantastic at times on Saturday and Lucas was part of that. He had a decent game overall, but then his ability to put in a decent performance when things are going our way and the senior players decide to show up was never really in question. We have his performance against Newcastle as the official example of that.
These types of games have never really been the problem when it comes to Lucas. It's when the going gets tough that we need to see more from him. He needs to show us that he can step it up and impose himself on the game instead of relying on others to do it for him - guys like Masher have proven their ability to do this time and time again, which is why they get the respect that still eludes Lucas. If and when he demonstrates this sort of quality, I'm positive that attitudes will very quickly change.
[/quote]
Exactly, he needs now show he can mix it with the big boys. Hopefully he continues to show increased personality and continues to get on the ball and not allow the game just pass him by.
He won a few 50/50 aswel on Saturday. Some posters would have you believe he has never won a 50/50.
personally I think over the course of a season lucas will contribute more to our cause than aqualini, because (a) I think he will play more games (by virtue of being fit) and (b) aqualini will take time to get up to speed with the english league.
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=ILD link=topic=35784.msg943260#msg943260 date=1252929956]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=35784.msg943255#msg943255 date=1252929546]
I think Lucas is starting to benefit from the same sort of treatment Crouch received when he started to show some signs of worth after being constantly lambasted. Now any criticism is associated with the over the top abuse the player got to begin with and you start having to constantly provide disclaimers.
I thought the team looked fantastic at times on Saturday and Lucas was part of that. He had a decent game overall, but then his ability to put in a decent performance when things are going our way and the senior players decide to show up was never really in question. We have his performance against Newcastle as the official example of that.
These types of games have never really been the problem when it comes to Lucas. It's when the going gets tough that we need to see more from him. He needs to show us that he can step it up and impose himself on the game instead of relying on others to do it for him - guys like Masher have proven their ability to do this time and time again, which is why they get the respect that still eludes Lucas. If and when he demonstrates this sort of quality, I'm positive that attitudes will very quickly change.
[/quote]
Exactly, he needs now show he can mix it with the big boys. Hopefully he continues to show increased personality and continues to get on the ball and not allow the game just pass him by.
He won a few 50/50 aswel on Saturday. Some posters would have you believe he has never won a 50/50.
[/quote]
This is only a recent thing. It's not some aspect his game which gone unnoticed for the 2.5 years he's been here.
And Keni's post is spot on. It takes a massive performance against top quality opposition to really prove yourself as 'good enough' for the fans. Masher's done it, Gerrard's done it more than anyone else in world football, Kuyt's done it, Yossi against Madrid, Riera against Chelsea, etc. Big performances against big teams mean a lot.
Will Lucas cut it in the long run for us? Probably not, but it's good to see he's developed this summer.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=35784.msg943255#msg943255 date=1252929546]
I think Lucas is starting to benefit from the same sort of treatment Crouch received when he started to show some signs of worth after being constantly lambasted. Now any criticism is associated with the over the top abuse the player got to begin with and you start having to constantly provide disclaimers.
I thought the team looked fantastic at times on Saturday and Lucas was part of that. He had a decent game overall, but then his ability to put in a decent performance when things are going our way and the senior players decide to show up was never really in question. We have his performance against Newcastle as the official example of that.
These types of games have never really been the problem when it comes to Lucas. It's when the going gets tough that we need to see more from him. He needs to show us that he can step it up and impose himself on the game instead of relying on others to do it for him - guys like Masher have proven their ability to do this time and time again, which is why they get the respect that still eludes Lucas. If and when he demonstrates this sort of quality, I'm positive that attitudes will very quickly change.
[/quote]
Exactly, he needs now show he can mix it with the big boys. Hopefully he continues to show increased personality and continues to get on the ball and not allow the game just pass him by.
He won a few 50/50 aswel on Saturday. Some posters would have you believe he has never won a 50/50.
[/quote]
This is only a recent thing. It's not some aspect his game which gone unnoticed for the 2.5 years he's been here.
And Keni's post is spot on. It takes a massive performance against top quality opposition to really prove yourself as 'good enough' for the fans. Masher's done it, Gerrard's done it more than anyone else in world football, Kuyt's done it, Yossi against Madrid, Riera against Chelsea, etc. Big performances against big teams mean a lot.
Will Lucas cut it in the long run for us? Probably not, but it's good to see he's developed this summer.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35784.msg943262#msg943262 date=1252930105]
personally I think over the course of a season lucas will contribute more to our cause than aqualini, because (a) I think he will play more games (by virtue of being fit) and (b) aqualini will take time to get up to speed with the english league.
[/quote]
God, I hope you're wrong.
personally I think over the course of a season lucas will contribute more to our cause than aqualini, because (a) I think he will play more games (by virtue of being fit) and (b) aqualini will take time to get up to speed with the english league.
[/quote]
God, I hope you're wrong.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=35784.msg943249#msg943249 date=1252928230]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35784.msg943244#msg943244 date=1252927778]
I didn't say he was poor, it wasn't a dig.
I simply think he had a basic job to do of distributing the ball and breaking up attacking play, and he got on with it. Gerrard at times playing in a deeper role took the emphasis off Lucas from delivering more penetrative/effective balls from the middle of the park, leaving him to just keep is simple, as per. When he's partnered with Mascherano he's judged by all together different criteria.
He's not the liability he's made out to be and has toughened up over the summer, but a "great" performance yesterday is going overboard.
[/quote]
OK. That 'basic' job is what people croon over Mascherano doing strangely enough. Saying he was "average" is not giving him enough credit though. Let's say he had a decent game and was much improved. The improvement is encouraging and long may it continue.
[/quote]
Misleading comparison IMO. Mascher does that job with consummate quality against the best teams. Lucas is indeed improving and, as you say, long may it continue, but he's still a long way short of turning in a performance like (for example) Mascher's against the Mancs at Anfield last season. At the moment he looks to me like a jack of all trades but master of none.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35784.msg943244#msg943244 date=1252927778]
I didn't say he was poor, it wasn't a dig.
I simply think he had a basic job to do of distributing the ball and breaking up attacking play, and he got on with it. Gerrard at times playing in a deeper role took the emphasis off Lucas from delivering more penetrative/effective balls from the middle of the park, leaving him to just keep is simple, as per. When he's partnered with Mascherano he's judged by all together different criteria.
He's not the liability he's made out to be and has toughened up over the summer, but a "great" performance yesterday is going overboard.
[/quote]
OK. That 'basic' job is what people croon over Mascherano doing strangely enough. Saying he was "average" is not giving him enough credit though. Let's say he had a decent game and was much improved. The improvement is encouraging and long may it continue.
[/quote]
Misleading comparison IMO. Mascher does that job with consummate quality against the best teams. Lucas is indeed improving and, as you say, long may it continue, but he's still a long way short of turning in a performance like (for example) Mascher's against the Mancs at Anfield last season. At the moment he looks to me like a jack of all trades but master of none.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35784.msg943248#msg943248 date=1252928193]
Only nutters have ever said Lucas directly cost us games - not doing do is hardly an achievement for someone pulling on a red shirt. It harks back the the Traore days.
The only things I will say about him is: 1) He is turning into a Premiership footballer 2) Never partner him with Mascherano.
[/quote]
That was anita that said that. Summat along the lines of "we lost because of Lucas". Lol
Lucas does need a quality babysitter though, whether it was Xabi or is now Gerrard/Aquaman - he can't be left in there with Masher. He's not dire as some make out, I just don't think he's very good. But, you never know - If Rafa persists with him like he did Kuyt, then something good might come from him.
Only nutters have ever said Lucas directly cost us games - not doing do is hardly an achievement for someone pulling on a red shirt. It harks back the the Traore days.
The only things I will say about him is: 1) He is turning into a Premiership footballer 2) Never partner him with Mascherano.
[/quote]
That was anita that said that. Summat along the lines of "we lost because of Lucas". Lol
Lucas does need a quality babysitter though, whether it was Xabi or is now Gerrard/Aquaman - he can't be left in there with Masher. He's not dire as some make out, I just don't think he's very good. But, you never know - If Rafa persists with him like he did Kuyt, then something good might come from him.
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