Liverpool 'in investment talks with US group'

[Hansern]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39299.msg1077278#msg1077278 date=1269769718]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=39299.msg1077271#msg1077271 date=1269769085]
Loads of stories in the press about Hicks being against the deal, as he won't make any money on it.
RBS wants their money, and this summer could be really looooooooong.

Hicks could destory our club if he doesn't pack his bags..
[/quote]

I found one story on Goal.com.

And it makes no sense too
[/quote]


HICK-UP IN LIVERPOOL SALE
Texan accused of risking Reds' future

HICKS: Liverpool co-owner

By Chris Bascombe, 27/03/2010

TOM HICKS has been accused of risking Liverpool future by rejecting a 40 per cent sale of the club.

The internal war which is ripping the Merseysiders apart is back at full throttle amid a massive push to boot co-owners Hicks and George Gillett out the boardroom.


Kop managing director Christian Purslow fears he will be unable to guarantee investment in the squad this summer if the Yanks stay in power.


Any hope of keeping Fernando Torres, who wants 'four or five new signings', effectively rests with Hicks and Gillett stepping down as co-owners in the next two months.


The Royal Bank of Scotland is putting the squeeze on the Americans, demanding Hicks 'put up or give up' in his efforts to run the club.


They want Hicks to agree to Purslow's recommendations.


They don't believe the Texan can raise his own funds to reduce Liverpool's debt by the £100m demanded.


Purslow has negotiated an equity sale with the Rhone Group which Hicks rejected because he won't make any money from the deal.


Rival investors are ready to match Rhone's bid. Others, such as India's Sahara Group, are interested in a full buy-out but face the same frustrations because of Hicks' hardline stance.


Purslow, who was appointed to oversee Liverpool by the bank, prefers the equity sale and wants a decision before the end of the season.


He knows the club must state their intentions before a July deadline to reassure Torres and Steven Gerrard top class players will be recruited.


Rhone's intentions have been made clear in dialogue with manager Rafa Benitez earlier this week, although his long-term position remains unclear.


Purslow has also met several players in an effort to explain how the club can emerge from one of the darkest periods of their history.


If Rhone's offer to reduce the £237m debt is agreed, they will delegate power to a new board consisting of Purslow, commercial director Ian Ayre and finance director Philip Nash.


Around £25m net spend will be available for player recruitment in the summer, and Purslow believes a more stable board will attract further investment for a new stadium.


Co-owner Gillett is understood to be more willing to reduce his stake, but Hicks has so far proven to be an immovable obstacle.

A full buy out by the Sahara grup sounds like the best option

 

[Shadey]

A part of me just wants to shut this mess out because it does my head in but its impossible.. 🙁

 

[spider-Neil]

25m plus sales. hooray!!!

ha ha I'll believe it when I see it. so rhone are willing put in a 100m to get their foot in the door and then a further 25m for players, erm, why exactly would they invest a further 25m if hicks and gillent aren't going to put forward a penny from their pockets. they (rhone) wouldn't, its bullshit.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39299.msg1077252#msg1077252 date=1269764927]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39299.msg1077251#msg1077251 date=1269764643]
but the more I read, the more I believe Benitez will be here next season. [/quote]

told ya 😛
[/quote]

As long as it makes you happy.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39299.msg1077314#msg1077314 date=1269777300]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39299.msg1077252#msg1077252 date=1269764927]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39299.msg1077251#msg1077251 date=1269764643]
but the more I read, the more I believe Benitez will be here next season. [/quote]

told ya 😛
[/quote]

As long as it makes you happy.
[/quote]

it does, hopefully rafa wont me regret it.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39299.msg1077315#msg1077315 date=1269777456]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39299.msg1077314#msg1077314 date=1269777300]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39299.msg1077252#msg1077252 date=1269764927]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39299.msg1077251#msg1077251 date=1269764643]
but the more I read, the more I believe Benitez will be here next season. [/quote]

told ya 😛
[/quote]

As long as it makes you happy.
[/quote]

it does, hopefully rafa wont me regret it.
[/quote]

If he hasn't this year, I doubt he ever will.

 

[Hansern]

Royal Bank of Scotland, to whom the bulk of Liverpool’s £237m debt is owed, have told Hicks and partner George Gillett they will repossess the club and sell it should the Americans fail to repay £100m by July.

Is this the scenario some of the investors are waiting for??

 

[jexykrodic]

I don't understand this 'investment' thing, investing in what? I can't see anyone investing lump sums in stadia and new players without full control.

Now if by investment ' a buyer for the club' is meant then I can see that.

Whatever I can't imagine it's going to be signalled in the Press, we'll simply awake one day to the announcement that so-and-so has bought a controlling interest in Liverpool FC.

 

[Judge Jules]

Why wouldn't someone invest for less than full control if they were satisfied about the prospects of getting a good return?

That said, I do agree that that's highly unlikely as long as the club's ownership situation remains as it currently stands.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39299.msg1077318#msg1077318 date=1269777669]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39299.msg1077315#msg1077315 date=1269777456]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39299.msg1077314#msg1077314 date=1269777300]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39299.msg1077252#msg1077252 date=1269764927]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39299.msg1077251#msg1077251 date=1269764643]
but the more I read, the more I believe Benitez will be here next season. [/quote]

told ya 😛
[/quote]

As long as it makes you happy.
[/quote]

it does, hopefully rafa wont me regret it.
[/quote]

If he hasn't this year, I doubt he ever will.
[/quote][quote author=Hansern link=topic=39299.msg1077868#msg1077868 date=1269847406]
Royal Bank of Scotland, to whom the bulk of Liverpool’s £237m debt is owed, have told Hicks and partner George Gillett they will repossess the club and sell it should the Americans fail to repay £100m by July.


[/quote]

hicks will sell torres and gerrard before he lets that happen

 

[Hansern]

If he does that he's even stupider than we give him credit for, selling your most valuble assets is like pissing in your pants to stay warm.

He won't do that, as the club will be worth a whole lot less if he sells them.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=39299.msg1077932#msg1077932 date=1269856124]
If he does that he's even stupider than we give him credit for, selling your most valuble assets is like pissing in your pants to stay warm.

He won't do that, as the club will be worth a whole lot less if he sells them.
[/quote]

And he'll completely piss off his customer base.

 

[Wilko7]

And Torres and Gerrard could refuse to leave whilst showing Tommy their signed contracts.

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39299.msg1077933#msg1077933 date=1269856171]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=39299.msg1077932#msg1077932 date=1269856124]
If he does that he's even stupider than we give him credit for, selling your most valuble assets is like pissing in your pants to stay warm.

He won't do that, as the club will be worth a whole lot less if he sells them.
[/quote]

And he'll completely piss off his customer base.
[/quote]

It would be a fucking titanic gigantic soul tearing disaster, and it is wholly possible, all Hicks needs to do is turn round and tell Torres that no signings will be arriving and make the right noises to city and bobs your uncle... Rafa walks and so no pay out....

Justifies it to the fans by getting an enormous fee...

Ah well...

Even thinking about it is too painful. The fans would continue to turn up because, well thats what fans do right?

I'm just enjoying reading the papers this morning, i'll worry about tomorrow tomorrow...

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39299.msg1077933#msg1077933 date=1269856171]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=39299.msg1077932#msg1077932 date=1269856124]
If he does that he's even stupider than we give him credit for, selling your most valuble assets is like pissing in your pants to stay warm.

He won't do that, as the club will be worth a whole lot less if he sells them.
[/quote]

And he'll completely piss off his customer base.
[/quote]

I think that is very low on hick's list of priorities.

 

[Judge Jules]

I doubt that. Hicks may be pig-headed but he's no fool. He'll know perfectly well that the massive profits he reckons he'll eventually make depend on that very fanbase.

I doubt Nando would accept a Citeh deal BTW. He'd only agree to leave if he were satisfied that a deal would benefit LFC as opposed to Hicks' bank balance, so I'd lay a sizeable sum he'll never go to another English club.

 

[spider-Neil]

the rhone deal is far from ideal but the long and the short of it is it does reduce the debt by 100m

 

[Wilko7]

Thanks for enlightening us on that, Neil.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Wilko7 link=topic=39299.msg1078088#msg1078088 date=1269873531]
Thank for enlightening us on that, Neil.
[/quote]

Haha

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Wilko7 link=topic=39299.msg1078088#msg1078088 date=1269873531]
Thank for enlightening us on that, Neil.
[/quote]

pleasure 😉

 

[Hansern]

Nicked this of RAWK.

According to various reports Liverpool is on the verge of sealing a 120 million pound investment from the “Rhone group†for 40% control of the club. Approximately 100 million will be invested to decrease our 237 million pound debt and 25 million will be made available to Rafael Benitez in the transfer market.

Rhone Group

Rhone Group was formed in 1996 and is owned and managed by the millionaire financiers Robert Agostinelli and Steven Langman, and is a mid-market private equity firm. Very little information is available to do a proper research of their company as a visitation to their website is only accessible with a “partnership loginâ€.

Club control

If this deal is to go through, which looks pretty imminent at the moment, as various reports are suggesting that Christian Purslow has already held meetings with Rafael Benitez and indispensable first team players like Steven Gerrard, Jamie Carragher and Fernando Torres. It would leave George Gillett and Thomas Hicks with 30% shares each and Rhone Group with 40%. To many who believe that this would mean that Rhone Group have the final say on club matters, you couldn’t be more wrong.
This would only mean that if Rhone Group try to force through an idea and 1 of the two American owners(Hicks or Gillett) disagrees, that their vote is void. But if it was to come down to investing money into the squad or to free up funds for the stadium and both Gillett and Hicks disagree than it doesn’t happen.

Advantages

· George Gillett and Thomas Hicks’ disagreements would no longer be an issue as they would have to come to a mutual agreement to stop the Rhone Group from making changes.

· Debt reduced by 50%.

· Initial 25 million pounds made available to the Manager.

· Security of holding on to players like Mascherano and Torres for at least 1 more year

Disadvantages

· Any changes to the structure of the football club would have to go through a voting process – and we all know how long that can take with just 2 Americans, one has to wonder how long it would take with 3.

· Short term strategy in place, but still no long term strategy which still means uncertain times off the pitch.

· Still no sole controlling body.

Debt reduction

With current debt set at 237 million pounds, a reduction of 50% is ideal. What has to be mentioned though is that this still isn’t “debt-free†and still no stadium. Liverpool football club have an annual profit of approx. 10 million pounds – to reduce future debts we would have to decrease the current debt to 0 and then take out a loan(mortgage) to finance the new stadium. New stadium would increase revenue by 50 million pounds ensuring a profit of around 20-30 million depending on the cost of maintenance required for the new stadium. At present loan costs for a 237 million pound debt is set at around 40 million pounds annually – this of course has to do with interest rates that are set up because of “short-term†borrowing.

Long-term loans come with a lower interest rate, financing a stadium would prove no stumbling block for Liverpool football club. However, with “Personal†loans still burdened on the club which inevitably come with high interest rates, the future still looks bleak.

If the stadium costs for example 400 million pounds than the annual interest rate would be approx. 4-5% APR depending on various variables including (deposit, Club-Bank relations, etc) 400 million pound mortgage over a period of 20 years means annually between 29-30 million pounds. If we take into account that we already operate at a profit of 10 million pounds per year with the current stadium then we can calculate the following: 10 million + 25 million from new stadium revenue = 35 million pounds in profit if we subtract the loans necessary to purchase the new stadium it leaves us with approx. 5-10 million pounds profit. But, this is a calculation of what could happen if the club was “debt-free†if we was to add on the 15-20 million that would now be required to be paid because of personal loans than we will still be increasing debt.

Conclusion

Anything to decrease George Gillett and Thomas Hicks’ power over our club will always get the green light from me. But, somehow this deal seems to me like “not the right†way to go. Liverpool need a single owner, who understands the corporate culture of a football club, including how things are supposed to be run at this historical club. I think what most of these foreign owners do not understand is how to properly conduct themselves as a leader of a culture. American’s always seem to mess it up more than their fellow counterparts from other countries. And the only conclusion I can sum up for this kind of attitude is how business and sports is conducted on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. When they takeover a club in the States they use their Emotional Intelligence to deceive their club supporters into believing every single word that comes out of their mouth. In England and the rest of the world, this is just considered “Bullâ€.

Rhone Group do not seem to me like the financial backing that we need. Firstly, private equity firms are generally “long-term†investors. But, I am not fooled by this tag, as I understand what is considered a “long-term†investor in the business world – anything above 3 years. From the research I have gathered, Rhone Group usually hold on to their investment for an average of 7 years, which in football terms is short-term – and – not what Liverpool football club are looking for.

Also, what is a no-go for me in this deal is the description of the investor – private equity firm – some might be saying right now “what is wrong with that?â€. Well I just don’t like the idea that my football club who I support through good and bad times is being bought up by people who have the only intention of making a quick buck. An owner of a football club for me is someone who wants to increase the sporting activity and in that process gaining financially.

All in all, I am happy that it has come to a point where Hicks and Gillett’s time is over. But, I am not jumping up and down just yet with the alternative. Christian Purslow should be awarded a medal for what he has done for our club. But, I am not sure about this one.

 

[Hansern]

And on another site, someones claiming that an insider at the club has said that Sahara Group has had a bid accepted for full control of the club, 300 mill £.

Most definetly bollocks, but still a nice enough rumour to fiddle about with.

 

[Rosco]

I'd query one or two figures in that, but aside from that (and the fact it's heavily laced with unsubstantiated opinion) it's a decent summary of the situation.

The vast majority of the best run companies in the world have no "sole controlling body" as the RAWK poster put it. It's by no means essential.

And the other thing is we haven't ever been linked with anyone who was interested with LFC for any reason other than what they can get out of it. So I don't understand the assumption that there will be someone out there looking to waste their money on us for the privilege of owning us.

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=39299.msg1079098#msg1079098 date=1270022648]
And on another site, someones claiming that an insider at the club has said that Sahara Group has had a bid accepted for full control of the club, 300 mill £.

Most definetly bollocks, but still a nice enough rumour to fiddle about with.
[/quote]

Well if 120 mill buys 40% then....

 

[kingjulian]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=39299.msg1079098#msg1079098 date=1270022648]
And on another site, someones claiming that an insider at the club has said that Sahara Group has had a bid accepted for full control of the club, 300 mill £.

Most definetly bollocks, but still a nice enough rumour to fiddle about with.
[/quote]

I'm not sure if any of you follow cricket. But BCCI benefited hugely from the Sahara group's very strong backing. There can be a lot of upside to a deal like this.

But 300 million is not a realistic number. 260 million goes to servicing debt, and i think the American's will defi want more than 40 million for their troubles? They will cite several positives they have accomplished...they have invested in the squad, brokered a very lucrative sponsorship deal, got the stadium planning and approval and procurement of land taken care off. They will defi think that is worth more than 40 million pound.

I don't see Subrata Roy pulling that off, especially with these two Americans.

 

[spider-Neil]

300 mil? and how much will that leave G&H when RBS take their money? bullshit story.

 

[Buddha]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39299.msg1079137#msg1079137 date=1270027968]
300 mil? and how much will that leave G&H when RBS take their money? bullshit story.
[/quote]

The figure quoted might be bullshit, but it doesn't mean there isn't some interest from Sahara (fingers crossed).

It'll surely take a bid of 500+ million to persuade Hicks to sell though.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Buddha link=topic=39299.msg1079145#msg1079145 date=1270029009]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39299.msg1079137#msg1079137 date=1270027968]
300 mil? and how much will that leave G&H when RBS take their money? bullshit story.
[/quote]

The figure quoted might be bullshit, but it doesn't mean there isn't some interest from Sahara (fingers crossed).

It'll surely take a bid of 500+ million to persuade Hicks to sell though.
[/quote]

definately. imagine that half a billion for a company moores sold for 88m 3 years ago.

thanks rick 'you only sell your family silver once' parry

 

[kingjulian]

88 million + 60+ million in debt, was it not? So total value of the deal at the time was close to 150 million pounds, if i'm not wrong?

Considering Time value and progress made as a business entity, i think that is a not too far off what would be considered fair expectation. We now generate a lot more revenue than when the "yanks" came in. Ian Ayre has done a brilliant job! So if I were in Hicks and Gillet's place i would be looking at something over 350 million pounds and posture as if nothing less than 400 million is a fair deal.

The alternative at the time was DIC, was it not? We may well be in a even more horrible situation by now. Are there any more people on this site who blame Rick Parry for the shite we are in now?

I actually don't like Christian Purslow all that much. I think he is an RBS man. Till the debt is paid up there is going to be a stale mate, if Christian Purslow is running things.

 

[Hansern]

I think it was quoted in the Echo, that the Sahara Group are interested, but only in buying the club full stop.

Why should 300 mill be bullshit though? Their valuation have been 500 and that has gotten them nowhere. RBS could quite possibly take over the club and sell it if there isn't made a down payment of 100 mill £. And that could leave thick and thicko with much less.