LFC SOLD to NESV.

[TheBunnyman]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

I just posted that, Neil.

 

[kingjulian]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1190742#msg1190742 date=1286436341]
can someone please explain why if G&H have loaned liverpool the £140 mil why they are set to lose this money if liverpool are bought? wouldn't we still owe that money? thanks in adance.
[/quote]

I don't understand it either. Is it because, they lent it to Kop Holdings the cayman island proxy, and that we/NESV don't care what happens to that company and are just buying the asset?

I have no clue...

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=41783.msg1190747#msg1190747 date=1286436819]
I just posted that, Neil.
[/quote]

opps! 🙂

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41783.msg1190749#msg1190749 date=1286436970]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1190742#msg1190742 date=1286436341]
can someone please explain why if G&H have loaned liverpool the £140 mil why they are set to lose this money if liverpool are bought? wouldn't we still owe that money? thanks in adance.
[/quote]

I don't understand it either. Is it because, they lent it to Kop Holdings the cayman island proxy, and that we/NESV don't care what happens to that company and are just buying the asset?

I have no clue...
[/quote]

yeah, I think that's it king. the new owners don't give a fuck about kop holdings.

 

[Oncy]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1190750#msg1190750 date=1286437041]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=41783.msg1190747#msg1190747 date=1286436819]
I just posted that, Neil.
[/quote]

opps! 🙂


[/quote]Fucking lol

 

[kingjulian]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

is this 145 million pound all interest payments? Or were they investments made into the club?

Jayzuz their financial planning is worse than my personal finance planning.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

I've just interviewed Martin Broughton, chairman of Liverpool since April.

And what struck me was his confidence that he can sell the club from under its owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

He told me that when he took the post of chairman, he received explicit undertakings that he was in charge of selling the club - and that Mr Hicks and Mr Gillett surrendered any right to block a sale to a bidder he deemed most suitable.

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Those undertakings will now be tested in court, probably in the middle of next week.

But bankers tell me that if the courts rule against the transfer of Liverpool FC to the new ownership of John Henry and New England Sports Ventures, the sale will still probably go through - although via the ungainly mechanism of Royal Bank of Scotland putting Liverpool into administration (see my earlier post on how this would work).
So it looks like the parent company of the Boston Red Sox will be the proprietor of the Liverpool FC.

It is proposing to pay £300m, of which £200m would pay off the longer term bank debt provided by Royal Bank of Scotland and Wachovia of the US (three quarters of that £200m goes to RBS).

Another £40m would pay off other creditors, such as the local council.

And £60m would stay in the business as debt secured on the stadium plus working capital facilities.

Not even a brass farthing will go to messrs Hicks and Gillett, which means they stand to lose the £140m they've put into the club - and it's why they will do all they can to frustrate the deal.

If, as seems likely, the deal goes through one way or another, Liverpool will once again have relatively modest debts - around £60m -which, as I've said, should feel like something of a liberation.

And Mr Broughton told me he was confident that the new owner wouldn't simply take money out by foisting new borrowings on the club as and when financial markets recover sufficiently - though there aren't any cast iron guarantees to that effect.

Nor has he extracted a binding commitment to build the new Stanley Park stadium. But Mr Broughton pointed to the track record of John Henry in developing sporting facilities in an imaginative way.

Mr Broughton believes that Mr Henry wants to own Liverpool for what the Kop would see as the right reasons - namely to turn it again into a winning club on the field, as the sine qua non of commercial success.

Mr Henry's record at the Boston Red Sox - which has won two World Series under his ownership after decades of ignominy and failure - would make that a plausible assertion.

But although globalisation is increasingly a phenomenon in sport as well in finance, there are still huge cultural differences between sports clubs in different countries. Mr Henry will find much about Liverpool FC unfamiliar, even alien.

So perhaps astutely, Mr Broughton refused to make any prediction of when silverware would once more grace the Liverpool trophy cabinet, to follow the silver raining into Royal Bank of Scotland's coffers.

so placing money on the club and building the stadium ISN'T held in a legally binding contract. well the NESV past track recrd is good so I guess we'll have to trust they'll do the right thing.

 

[keniget]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

The question of why Broughton got involved in this is very easy to answer now... he's come out of the whole affair looking like a bit of a maverick.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

Broughton and co plan pre-emptive legal action

The trio of controlling members of the Liverpool board have issued legal proceedings against Tom Hicks and George Gillett and are heading to the High Court on Friday to push through the £300 million sale of the club, ESPNsoccernet can reveal

Chairman Martin Broughton, managing director Christian Purslow and commercial director Ian Ayre have pre-empted any legal action by current co-owners Hicks and Gillett to stop the planned takeover, issuing a 'declaratory judgment' which their solicitors, Slaughter and May, have prepared for a hearing on Friday.

Hicks and Gillett, whose losses would be an estimated £140 million, are convinced that their legal arguments will halt the proposed sale to the owners of the Boston Red Sox, and an appeal appears certain no matter what the outcome of the initial courtroom battle on Friday.

The trio are anxious that the whole legal process, and indeed the sale that depends upon it, is completed by the October 15 deadline, when the Royal Bank of Scotland calls in its £237 million loans from Hicks and Gillett and effectively owns the club. The bank would then have to sell the club on, or put Liverpool into administration.

Broughton has not ruled out administration, and the club would then plead with the Premier League not to deduct the nine-point penalty.

"This is not a case of financial doping, by overspending on players, wages or transfers," a source said. "It is not the case that the club is insolvent and still trading. It is the borrowings by the two Americans when they bought the club.

"But clearly Liverpool does not wish to risk having nine points deducted, so it's imperative that the sale goes through before October 15, but it is signed conditional on the legal issues being resolved."

The Premier League is planning to rubber stamp the sale on Friday, according to Liverpool sources.

Liverpool board trio to pre-empt Hicks and Gillett legal action - Barclays Premier League - ESPN Soccernet

 

[DHSC]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

I'm actually quite worried that Hicks might still have an ace up his sleeve.

 

[Oncy]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41783.msg1190760#msg1190760 date=1286438273]
I'm actually quite worried that Hicks might still have an ace up his sleeve.
[/quote]If he doesnt have 237m aces then he is fucked regardless.

 

[DHSC]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41783.msg1190765#msg1190765 date=1286438709]
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41783.msg1190760#msg1190760 date=1286438273]
I'm actually quite worried that Hicks might still have an ace up his sleeve.
[/quote]If he doesnt have 237m aces then he is fucked regardless.
[/quote]

I'm just worried that he still has some legal standing in this situation, some small print that was included in some legal documents.

 

[Oncy]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41783.msg1190768#msg1190768 date=1286438976]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41783.msg1190765#msg1190765 date=1286438709]
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41783.msg1190760#msg1190760 date=1286438273]
I'm actually quite worried that Hicks might still have an ace up his sleeve.
[/quote]If he doesnt have 237m aces then he is fucked regardless.
[/quote]

I'm just worried that he still has some legal standing in this situation, some small print that was included in some legal documents.
[/quote]It doesnt matter mate. He can stall and stop the sale now, but no small print is going to pay RBS 230m by next friday whilst not securing finance against his only remaining asset.

 

[DHSC]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

*uncorks champagne*

*sprays all over Singapore girl*

 

[peterhague]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1190742#msg1190742 date=1286436341]
can someone please explain why if G&H have loaned liverpool the £140 mil why they are set to lose this money if liverpool are bought? wouldn't we still owe that money? thanks in adance.
[/quote]


ha, i told you that'd be the case, didn't i? trust in me, neil, trust in me!

i think what's going on is that, as with any group structure, H&G only own the shares in the ultimate parent company, whichever one that is. all the other companies in the structure are technically owned by the company above them in the group structure. so when H&G's shares in the concern are sold, it is the shares of the of the ultimate parent company that are sold - so what the buyers actually acquire is BOTH an asset of £144m in the parent, and a liability of £144m in the subsidiary, which obviously cancel each other out.

that must be the case: NESV can only buy from H&G what H&G actually own, and H&G don't technically own the football club - Kop Football Ltd or whatever it's called does.

 

[Delinquent]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1190746#msg1190746 date=1286436619]
okay, this eases my mind a little, even if by some miracle hicks wins the court case the club with fall into adminstration a day later and rbs will sell to NESV anyway 🙂
[/quote]

You're like an illiterate echo.

 

[Y1]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41783.msg1190749#msg1190749 date=1286436970]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1190742#msg1190742 date=1286436341]
can someone please explain why if G&H have loaned liverpool the £140 mil why they are set to lose this money if liverpool are bought? wouldn't we still owe that money? thanks in adance.
[/quote]

I don't understand it either. Is it because, they lent it to Kop Holdings the cayman island proxy, and that we/NESV don't care what happens to that company and are just buying the asset?

I have no clue...
[/quote]

I think the 140m were interest from the loans loaded by holding company onto LFC. As far as I can tell Tom & Hicks did not come out with a single cent from their own pockets. Can anyone (Rosco) tell how much Tom & Hicks have taken out from the club in term of expenses?

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=41783.msg1190780#msg1190780 date=1286440328]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1190746#msg1190746 date=1286436619]
okay, this eases my mind a little, even if by some miracle hicks wins the court case the club with fall into adminstration a day later and rbs will sell to NESV anyway 🙂
[/quote]

You're like an illiterate echo.
[/quote]

I don't understand the even if the court rules with them it will be ok. There has to be a reason why there doing it, Now a few days before the sale they had another company willing to refinance but the board blocked it. Whats to say they win the case put the board members in and refinance. There is not a thing the bank could do.

As i say there doing this for a reason and its not to have the bank take the company of them the next day after all this.

 

[peterhague]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41783.msg1190782#msg1190782 date=1286440569]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41783.msg1190749#msg1190749 date=1286436970]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1190742#msg1190742 date=1286436341]
can someone please explain why if G&H have loaned liverpool the £140 mil why they are set to lose this money if liverpool are bought? wouldn't we still owe that money? thanks in adance.
[/quote]

I don't understand it either. Is it because, they lent it to Kop Holdings the cayman island proxy, and that we/NESV don't care what happens to that company and are just buying the asset?

I have no clue...
[/quote]

I think the 140m were interest from the loans loaded by holding company onto LFC. As far as I can tell Tom & Hicks did not come out with a single cent from their own pockets. Can anyone (Rosco) tell how much Tom & Hicks have taken out from the club in term of expenses?
[/quote]


i think the £144m was just money introduced to the holding company by H&G, and was then loaned to the football club, so effectively an intercompany loan. i don't know how much they've drawn out over the years, but it's sure to be negligible compared to the £144m loss, maybe a few million each.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41783.msg1190760#msg1190760 date=1286438273]
I'm actually quite worried that Hicks might still have an ace up his sleeve.
[/quote]

he has to PROVE the board didn't act in the shareholders interests.
anyone who has any law knowledge, do the board have to primarely act in the interest of the investors or the asset?

 

[caparo]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=41783.msg1190787#msg1190787 date=1286442005]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41783.msg1190782#msg1190782 date=1286440569]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41783.msg1190749#msg1190749 date=1286436970]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1190742#msg1190742 date=1286436341]
can someone please explain why if G&H have loaned liverpool the £140 mil why they are set to lose this money if liverpool are bought? wouldn't we still owe that money? thanks in adance.
[/quote]

I don't understand it either. Is it because, they lent it to Kop Holdings the cayman island proxy, and that we/NESV don't care what happens to that company and are just buying the asset?

I have no clue...
[/quote]




I think the 140m were interest from the loans loaded by holding company onto LFC. As far as I can tell Tom & Hicks did not come out with a single cent from their own pockets. Can anyone (Rosco) tell how much Tom & Hicks have taken out from the club in term of expenses?
[/quote]


i think the £144m was just money introduced to the holding company by H&G, and was then loaned to the football club, so effectively an intercompany loan. i don't know how much they've drawn out over the years, but it's sure to be negligible compared to the £144m loss, maybe a few million each.
[/quote]


It says here http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2010/10/07/american-owners-will-walk-away-humiliated-reds-message-to-tom-hicks-and-george-gillett-100252-27419626/3/



that "If ousted, the Americans losses will be huge, amounting to £144m of loans, originally lent via off-shore parent holding company – Kop Cayman. The borrowings were later converted into equity by the co-owners at the behest of RBS."


If correct, this means that the £144m was originally a loan, but RBS forced them to convert it into equity, and probably used as collateral with RBS. If so, then the only returns on the £144m 'loan' will be the value H&G get for the shares - i.e. nothing after RBS is paid.

In short, they are screwed. Not sure how much of this is accurate though.

 

[caparo]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1190792#msg1190792 date=1286443234]
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41783.msg1190760#msg1190760 date=1286438273]
I'm actually quite worried that Hicks might still have an ace up his sleeve.
[/quote]

he has to PROVE the board didn't act in the shareholders interests.
anyone who has any law knowledge, do the board have to primarely act in the interest of the investors or the asset?
[/quote]


Assets have no rights.

In the normal course, H & G would definitely win. The board cannot trump a unanimous decision by the shareholders.

The ace is that as part of the earlier negotiations the creditors (RBS) had implemented certain provisions in consideration for not foreclosing. (i.e. Boughton)

 

[Hansern]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

Wow, the court case could start as early as tomorrow. Brougthon has played this chess game to perfection if there is a positive outcome.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=caparo link=topic=41783.msg1190794#msg1190794 date=1286443784]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1190792#msg1190792 date=1286443234]
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41783.msg1190760#msg1190760 date=1286438273]
I'm actually quite worried that Hicks might still have an ace up his sleeve.
[/quote]

he has to PROVE the board didn't act in the shareholders interests.
anyone who has any law knowledge, do the board have to primarely act in the interest of the investors or the asset?
[/quote]


Assets have no rights.

In the normal course, H & G would definitely win. The board cannot trump a unanimous decision by the shareholders.

The ace is that as part of the earlier negotiations the creditors (RBS) had implemented certain provisions in consideration for not foreclosing. (i.e. Boughton)



[/quote]

it does seem like rbs covered all the bases (a BASEBALL metaphor 😉 )

 

[DHSC]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1190799#msg1190799 date=1286444045]
[quote author=caparo link=topic=41783.msg1190794#msg1190794 date=1286443784]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1190792#msg1190792 date=1286443234]
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41783.msg1190760#msg1190760 date=1286438273]
I'm actually quite worried that Hicks might still have an ace up his sleeve.
[/quote]

he has to PROVE the board didn't act in the shareholders interests.
anyone who has any law knowledge, do the board have to primarely act in the interest of the investors or the asset?
[/quote]


Assets have no rights.

In the normal course, H & G would definitely win. The board cannot trump a unanimous decision by the shareholders.

The ace is that as part of the earlier negotiations the creditors (RBS) had implemented certain provisions in consideration for not foreclosing. (i.e. Boughton)



[/quote]

it does seem like rbs covered all the bases (a BASEBALL metaphor 😉 )
[/quote]

*groans*

STRIKE ONE.

 

[LadyRed]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41783.msg1190795#msg1190795 date=1286443809]
Wow, the court case could start as early as tomorrow. Brougthon has played this chess game to perfection if there is a positive outcome.
[/quote]

I'd imagine he tried to plan this with timescales in mind to be done by next week. It would be great if they could pull it off before the Everton game.

Get a new manager in neatly in a few weeks before the Jan transfer window to actually give us a chance of finishing somewhere respectable in the league.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41783.msg1190801#msg1190801 date=1286444099]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1190799#msg1190799 date=1286444045]
[quote author=caparo link=topic=41783.msg1190794#msg1190794 date=1286443784]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1190792#msg1190792 date=1286443234]
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41783.msg1190760#msg1190760 date=1286438273]
I'm actually quite worried that Hicks might still have an ace up his sleeve.
[/quote]

he has to PROVE the board didn't act in the shareholders interests.
anyone who has any law knowledge, do the board have to primarely act in the interest of the investors or the asset?
[/quote]


Assets have no rights.

In the normal course, H & G would definitely win. The board cannot trump a unanimous decision by the shareholders.

The ace is that as part of the earlier negotiations the creditors (RBS) had implemented certain provisions in consideration for not foreclosing. (i.e. Boughton)



[/quote]

it does seem like rbs covered all the bases (a BASEBALL metaphor 😉 )
[/quote]

*groans*

STRIKE ONE.
[/quote]

that was a little out of left field

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=41783.msg1190803#msg1190803 date=1286444241]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41783.msg1190795#msg1190795 date=1286443809]
Wow, the court case could start as early as tomorrow. Brougthon has played this chess game to perfection if there is a positive outcome.
[/quote]

I'd imagine he tried to plan this with timescales in mind to be done by next week. It would be great if they could pull it off before the Everton game.

Get a new manager in neatly in a few weeks before the Jan transfer window to actually give us a chance of finishing somewhere respectable in the league.
[/quote]

my worry is the yanks will be afraid of making a big decision this year

 

[DHSC]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1190805#msg1190805 date=1286444306]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=41783.msg1190803#msg1190803 date=1286444241]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41783.msg1190795#msg1190795 date=1286443809]
Wow, the court case could start as early as tomorrow. Brougthon has played this chess game to perfection if there is a positive outcome.
[/quote]

I'd imagine he tried to plan this with timescales in mind to be done by next week. It would be great if they could pull it off before the Everton game.

Get a new manager in neatly in a few weeks before the Jan transfer window to actually give us a chance of finishing somewhere respectable in the league.
[/quote]

my worry is the yanks will be afraid of making a big decision this year
[/quote]

They seem to be people on the ball, I dont think they will persist with Roy if he keeps fucking things up.

 

[caparo]

Re: LFC Sold to NESV (New England Sports Ventures)

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1190805#msg1190805 date=1286444306]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=41783.msg1190803#msg1190803 date=1286444241]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41783.msg1190795#msg1190795 date=1286443809]
Wow, the court case could start as early as tomorrow. Brougthon has played this chess game to perfection if there is a positive outcome.
[/quote]

I'd imagine he tried to plan this with timescales in mind to be done by next week. It would be great if they could pull it off before the Everton game.

Get a new manager in neatly in a few weeks before the Jan transfer window to actually give us a chance of finishing somewhere respectable in the league.
[/quote]

my worry is the yanks will be afraid of making a big decision this year
[/quote]

Well, I'd rather they took their time to find the best replacement instead of simply "approaching my friend in Boston who knows soccer" like H&G............