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lets talk about refs

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tony

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It is a noble trait that Klopp is not disposed to moan about poor decisions but isn't it about time he should. We are getting sawn off time and time again, it is about time we put a bit more pressure on these cunts who are letting us down badly. Maybe a Rafa style dossier might be appropriate. We could be joint top of the league if the correct decisions had been made in the last few games. It is utter bollox to say it evens itself out throughout the season, it doesn't if you are passive and let bad decisions go.

Just off the top of my head

West Ham 2pts lost
Lallana barged in the back whist running in penalty area - stonewall penalty not given, minute later a free kick given - never a foul - Payet scores the free kick

Sunderland 2pts lost
Last minute free kick on edge of penalty area given, no contact no foul, galling when we have been kicked from pillar to post all game with impunity

Man Utd 2pt lost
Obvious off side goal - their 5th in six games I think

Chelsea 2pts lost
That was a trip on Lallana never a free kick

Apart from a Can handball which was literally a yard away from where it was kicked I can't remember us getting the rub of the green with any big decisions recently, Ferguson would have been kicking up a shitstorm by now and so should we.
 
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I agree about the decisions, but Klopp's already been getting flak in the press for complaining about them. It's been along the lines of, 'Instead of dwelling on dubious decisions, he should be addressing the problems with his players'. Which is silly because you can actually do both at the same time!
 
2 things - 1. Allegedly it 'evens itself out' over a season, and 2. Clattenberg was voted best ref in the world last year! Ha!
 
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Clattenburg is a weird one. He probably is one of the best refs, but, unlike others, he seems to have some absolute stinkers during each season. Take last season's cup final - woeful. It's also rare for such a high profile English ref to have such a poor relationship with his own FA - they really don't like him, and he's much better liked in Europe. And loads of players and managers think he's far too arrogant and self-obsessed.

The contrast with Michael Oliver is stark. Oliver has no silly 'look at me' gestures for the cameras, no pompous posing to show players who's boss, and he just calmly and unobtrusively goes about his job. And he's a better ref. I hope more up and coming refs copy him rather than the likes of Clattenburg and his ego-driven mates.
 
This is obviously not some anti-Liverpool conspiracy so how do they raise the standard of officiating? Reviews?

The problem football has is that a lot of the decisions are subjective. Two pundits can pour over replays of an incident and still not come to the same conclusion. So I'm not sure how reviews would help in those situations.

I dunno what the answer is.
 
Oliver Twist said:
This is obviously not some anti-Liverpool conspiracy so how do they raise the standard of officiating? Reviews?

The problem football has is that a lot of the decisions are subjective. Two pundits can pour over replays of an incident and still not come to the same conclusion. So I'm not sure how reviews would help in those situations.

I dunno what the answer is.
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I'm not suggesting there is any conspiracy, just that we should be making a bit more of a noise about this. Mourinho moans about decisions and voila, a series of pro Utd decisions are delivered with several red cards not given and loads of off side goals. We are too nice, too passive, too fair even, we need a more hardened, maybe even cynical streak, right through the club.
 
If complaining about poor decisions against us attracts stick in the media or from other fans, frankly who cares? If it's something from which others are benefiting (and they are), IMHO so should we.
 
Mors said:
2 things - 1. Allegedly it 'evens itself out' over a season, and 2. Clattenberg was voted best ref in the world last year! Ha!
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Point 2 is his main fucking problem clattenberg has always been ok but now since that vote he is far to arrogant and firmly wedged up his own arse!
 
Oliver Twist said:
This is obviously not some anti-Liverpool conspiracy so how do they raise the standard of officiating? Reviews?

The problem football has is that a lot of the decisions are subjective. Two pundits can pour over replays of an incident and still not come to the same conclusion. So I'm not sure how reviews would help in those situations.

I dunno what the answer is.
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I think what they need is to start seriously trying to recruit ex-pros. The free kick last night was a classic example - all the ex-pros watching called it right, and the ref was conned. Most refs get most of the decisions right, but so could most of us. The crucial things are judging the borderline decisions and working out what's real and what's a con. Those things these refs usually get wrong.
 
I found it a little bizarre last night that the only Chavski booking was Willian for delaying us taking a free kick. Costa dived twice ( not including the pen ), and there were a few late tackles ( Matic in first half springs to mind ) which went unpunished.
 
How realistic is that, though? How many ex pros would want to ref given the shit they have no doubt handed out to refs their whole careers? Not to mention the money factor.

But getting them involved somehow would be a start. But it wouldn't solve the issue where the whole red team thinks it's a penalty, and the whole blue team doesn't. And all observers are split, too. And that scenario plays out all the time.
 
Oliver Twist said:
oneyHow realistic is that, though? How many ex pros would want to ref given the shit they have no doubt handed out to refs their whole careers? Not to mention the money factor.

But getting them involved somehow would be a start. But it wouldn't solve the issue where the whole red team thinks it's a penalty, and the whole blue team doesn't. And all observers are split, too. And that scenario plays out all the time.
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I think it is an excellent idea. We are of course always focused on the supercharged outrageous money floating around in the premier league and of course it is not going to appeal to multi millionaire ex players. However there are loads of lower league players who need to earn a living and want to stay in the game after they retire. There really should be some sort of campaign to recruit ex professionals from league 1 and 2. Their incite and experience would be invaluable and cannot fail to raise standards.
 
Oliver Twist said:
How realistic is that, though? How many ex pros would want to ref given the shit they have no doubt handed out to refs their whole careers? Not to mention the money factor.

But getting them involved somehow would be a start. But it wouldn't solve the issue where the whole red team thinks it's a penalty, and the whole blue team doesn't. And all observers are split, too. And that scenario plays out all the time.
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I don't think it's that likely, given the image of the ref, but if they were encouraged to think they could change that image, who knows. I don't think you'd want or get high profile players applying, but all you'd need are a few lower league ones (for whom in a way it would be a step up - at least they'd be involved in big games at great grounds), and their fitness and shrewdness ought to surpass the likes of Lee Mason and Co. And the rapport between them and current players would almost certainly be better than the current refs who act like school teachers or prison warders. As I said a while back, the example of umpires in cricket is quite illuminating.
 
I can cope with Refs making erroneous decisions without the benefit of slow motion and a range of perspectives. It's a really tough role to get right.

I'm much less patient with refs utilising the role to flesh out some sort of ego-ideal for themselves like Clattenburg was doing last night. Someone close to him needs to take him aside and let him know he's lost sight of some of his own better motivations.

It's not acceptable for a ref to act out his mid-life crisis during a game, go and do it somewhere else.
 
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