Kuyt

[robinhood]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=14248.msg327298#msg327298 date=1185830850]
The fact is that the team that won the league for the past few seasons has not had a 20-a-season striker.[/quote]

The teams that have finished ahead of us have had two players whose shared goals amount to close to 30 or more.

What this shows is that whilst you might not have two strikers on the pitch, or whilst both of your strikers might not be the top goalscorers, you are still set-up in such a way that allows a couple of talented goalscorers (strikers or not) to get that return. And you probably require that return, aswell. e.g. : Ronaldo (Utd's free-roaming style allowed him to make the most of himself, goal-wise) and Lampard (the 433 setup allowed him to regularly ghost into goalscoring positions), complementing Rooney and Drogba to create that return.

Out of the players we have, Torres and Kuyt, you'd have to expect, would be those players. For two reasons :

1) I can't see it being anyone else - Gerrard at a stretch might be one, but it's not that likely.
2) We're set up in such a way that means it can only ever be the strikers, and I don't believe that's about to change.

I don't believe Torres is up to the out-and-out role, and I'm not sure Kuyt is up to either. Nevertheless, we're going to see Kuyt in the hole and Torres out-and-out.

Maybe they'll prove me wrong and get a minimum of 30 goals between them, but I doubt it very much.

We ought to have Torres coming from deep and a proper goal-poacher that can guarantee us a high return.

 

[robinhood]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=14248.msg327301#msg327301 date=1185832069]I think we're getting a bit hung up on the youtube compilations here. I merely posted a couple for the sake of it rather than as a genuine feature of my argument. I have never claimed that Kuyt is a better finisher than the players you've mentioned (although Huntelaar, good as he is, is also unproven in a decent league). What I claimed was that Kuyt can strike the ball well, and I stand by that. He didn't bundle 70 odd goals in for Feyenoord, that's for sure.

Will he drag us kicking and screaming to number 19? No, I don't think he will. Could he be one half of an excellent striking partnership? Well, I think he could and as far as I'm concerned, he should be starting with Torres against Villa.

What your post does illustrate quite well is that we don't have a world class goal scorer to boast and that isn't going to change for what looks like another year. So, what remains for us is to make the best of what we have. Which is where I think your frustration with Kuyt's end product last season (and indeed your frustration with our failure to bring in a bona fide goal scorer) is clouding your judgement. The fact of the matter is, he was our leading scorer in the league last season. We haven't signed anyone who's past form suggests that they could do better and pinning your hopes on the idea that Babel will suddenly embrace this new opportunity and transform into a seasoned Premiership performer is wishful thinking at best. I wish him all the best, obviously, but his goal scoring record at senior level is relatively poor. From what I've seen of him, he's got some serious developing to do before he fulfills his undoubted promise, particularly at this level. Besides, throwing him at the deep end could be detrimental to such development. The last thing we want to do is rob him of that youthful confidence. I'd like to see him broken in on the left wing (or as part of a three-pronged attack) where the responsibility to score goals wouldn't weigh so heavily on him.

Quite simply, I think the player most likely to forge a partnership with Torres is Kuyt. He has the intelligence and (IMO, obviously) the ability to make it work. Whether you think he's good enough to take us forward here is not really the issue. The issue is whether he is the best option we have available currently and I think it's pretty clear that he is. Moreover, the fact remains that last season was his first in this league. History has shown that adapting can often take longer so I think our £10m investment still warrants a further year of persistence. Regardless of whether you think he will make it, surely he deserves the opportunity to see if he can?
[/quote]

I am frustrated that we didn't bring in the goalscorer that we so clearly needed more than anything else. Yes.

And I accept the point about Babel, and yes, Kuyt and Torres is how we should play. I was being a bit stupid there, most likely.

 

[robinhood]

[quote author=rurikbird link=topic=14248.msg327316#msg327316 date=1185834557]Talent comes in different shapes. There is physical talent, technical talent, mental talent and so on. Obviously Dirk's touch and feel of the ball is not on par with RvN or Henry and people who think simply moving him to more advanced position will somehow magically make him into a deadly finisher like RvN are clearly misguided. However, not all great strikers are as slick as Henry.

Case in point: Didier Drogba. He is similar to Dirk in that he doesn't strike the ball cleanly all the time and he's never been a clinical finisher. I never expected him to have a season like last season, but somehow he did and he was clearly one of the very best strikers in the world. And he did it not by cascades of technical tricks (although he does have a few), but by overpowering physical ability, exceptional attitude and confidence and not least thanks to a manager who built Chelsea's whole game around him.

I think Dirk and Drogba are a fair comparison. Drogba has a clear advantage in that he is faster and stronger, but Kuyt might be a bit smarter and more creative. If one day he will feel that confidence and go on a Drogba-like tear where even mis-hit balls end up in the net, he could be very very effective. But that requires that he is played to his strengths and not made into something he's not.
[/quote]

Yeah, good point. In my faithful moments this is the link I make.

If Drogba can do it, then maybe Kuyt can too.

I'd like to see Torres playing deep and Kuyt out-and-out.

 

[robinhood]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=14248.msg327336#msg327336 date=1185838629]
I don't understand you're "I'm glad I'm still allowed here" comment. What have you ever done ? [/quote]

Probably nothing. Just been in a few rows.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg327406#msg327406 date=1185862312]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=14248.msg327298#msg327298 date=1185830850]
The fact is that the team that won the league for the past few seasons has not had a 20-a-season striker.[/quote]

The teams that have finished ahead of us have had two players whose shared goals amount to close to 30 or more.

What this shows is that whilst you might not have two strikers on the pitch, or whilst both of your strikers might not be the top goalscorers, you are still set-up in such a way that allows a couple of talented goalscorers (strikers or not) to get that return. And you probably require that return, aswell. e.g. : Ronaldo (Utd's free-roaming style allowed him to make the most of himself, goal-wise) and Lampard (the 433 setup allowed him to regularly ghost into goalscoring positions), complementing Rooney and Drogba to create that return.

Out of the players we have, Torres and Kuyt, you'd have to expect, would be those players. For two reasons :

1) I can't see it being anyone else - Gerrard at a stretch might be one, but it's not that likely.
2) We're set up in such a way that means it can only ever be the strikers, and I don't believe that's about to change.

I don't believe Torres is up to the out-and-out role, and I'm not sure Kuyt is up to either. Nevertheless, we're going to see Kuyt in the hole and Torres out-and-out.

Maybe they'll prove me wrong and get a minimum of 30 goals between them, but I doubt it very much.

We ought to have Torres coming from deep and a proper goal-poacher that can guarantee us a high return.
[/quote]

Torres have played majority of his games at Atletico and few games for Spain as an out-and-out striker. Kuyt too have played most of the games at Feyenoord as out-and-out striker. Your posts is getting smelly now. Please keep your opinions on the low as it will disrupt the entire forum.

And also you are wrong when you said Kuyt will play behind Torres this season. Maybe both will interchange during the game but Kuyt will be our out-and-out striker and Torres to support him.

 

[robinhood]

[quote author=rurikbird link=topic=14248.msg327366#msg327366 date=1185850128]
but it's Torres who should be mostly playing up front.
[/quote]

It seems like a pretty solid argument in many respects, BUT, it doesn't make sense unless we look at Torres in a similar way, otherwise how would be know who should play each role.

Torres is fast, skillful, clever, is a good passer, is decent in the air, but his finishing is wanton. Perhaps more so than Kuyt's. He's got all the attributes, but he's just known for fluffing chances after having done all the hard work and created a clear chance from nothing.

Kuyt, on the other hand, actually does score when he's allowed to play as the box-striker. I'm sure somebody can produce that goal he scored against Spurs (and there were one or two others from similar situations) when Garcia put a clever ball through to him.

Torres can put these balls through all day - which highlights to me exactly where *he* should play, and Kuyt's intelligent movement and physical strength can work in his favour in the box.

Sure, he'll hit some at the keeper, and he'll hit some wide, but it doesn't mean that Torres wouldn't fluff more.

 

[robinhood]

[quote author=Glock link=topic=14248.msg327415#msg327415 date=1185863432]And also you are wrong when you said Kuyt will play behind Torres this season. Maybe both will interchange during the game but Kuyt will be our out-and-out striker and Torres to support him. [/quote]

I stand by my assertion that Rafa sees it like this :

--------Torres
Babel Kuyt Gerrard
--Alonso Mascher

But I actually think that the best solution is to allow them to take turns as much as possible.

At least that way we get chance to see what works and what doesn't.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg327423#msg327423 date=1185863849]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=14248.msg327415#msg327415 date=1185863432]And also you are wrong when you said Kuyt will play behind Torres this season. Maybe both will interchange during the game but Kuyt will be our out-and-out striker and Torres to support him. [/quote]

I stand by my assertion that Rafa sees it like this :

--------Torres
Babel Kuyt Gerrard
--Alonso Mascher

But I actually think that the best solution is to allow them to take turns as much as possible.

At least that way we get chance to see what works and what doesn't.
[/quote]

Gerrard is no right winger. We have told you that many times before. I don't give a flying fuck whether he's better than Pennant at right wing or not because Pennant is being brought in to play at right wing and Rafael'll play him there more games than last season i'm sure. He started 33 games last season at right wing and played more than 50 matches in all competitions.

Play Gerrard as a central midfielder or an attacking midfielder. From there we can see the most out of him. Rafael have to sacrifice at least two of his central midfielders be it Alonso, Masher or Momo.

 

[robinhood]

I'm not responsible for Gerrard being played on the right, Glock.

You have to blame that on Rafa.

 

[rurikbird]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg327418#msg327418 date=1185863733]
[quote author=rurikbird link=topic=14248.msg327366#msg327366 date=1185850128]
but it's Torres who should be mostly playing up front.
[/quote]

It seems like a pretty solid argument in many respects, BUT, it doesn't make sense unless we look at Torres in a similar way, otherwise how would be know who should play each role.

Torres is fast, skillful, clever, is a good passer, is decent in the air, but his finishing is wanton. Perhaps more so than Kuyt's. He's got all the attributes, but he's just known for fluffing chances after having done all the hard work and created a clear chance from nothing.

Kuyt, on the other hand, actually does score when he's allowed to play as the box-striker. I'm sure somebody can produce that goal he scored against Spurs (and there were one or two others from similar situations) when Garcia put a clever ball through to him.

Torres can put these balls through all day - which highlights to me exactly where *he* should play, and Kuyt's intelligent movement and physical strength can work in his favour in the box.

Sure, he'll hit some at the keeper, and he'll hit some wide, but it doesn't mean that Torres wouldn't fluff more.
[/quote]

I already did look at Torres in this way in another thread a few weeks back. I don't know if you read it, I'm afraid it got deleted with the rest of the old forum (or is there a backup somewhere?). In short, I wrote that Torres has potential to be a "complete" striker and that IMO the best way to take his game to a new level is to forget about dirty work and concentrate entirely on finishing, like Sheva did in his first season in Milan and Henry in his first season at Arsenal. That's because his all-around game is already there and it will not go away, but finishing will make the difference between him becoming a superstar or another talented player who never quite realized his potential.

I think Fernando's problems with finishing are very different in nature than Kuyt's. Dirk simply doesn't have that natural feel for the ball. Fernando does have the feel, his problems are mostly psychological, which is normal for a young striker: neither Sheva nor Henry were particularly clinical finishers at his age, they developed it with time. That's why I think it's crucial for Torres to play up front and leave dirty work for someone else.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg327427#msg327427 date=1185864934]
I'm not responsible for Gerrard being played on the right, Glock.

You have to blame that on Rafa.
[/quote]

OK, so i expect no more shit line-up with Gerrard on the right flank from you in future.

 

[robinhood]

[quote author=Glock link=topic=14248.msg327430#msg327430 date=1185865395]OK, so i expect no more shit line-up with Gerrard on the right flank from you in future.
[/quote]

Why don't you ring your mate Rafa up and get him to stop playing Gerrard on the right. Then I'll stop predicting in him on the right in future line-ups.

 

[robinhood]

[quote author=rurikbird link=topic=14248.msg327428#msg327428 date=1185865114]I already did look at Torres in this way in another thread a few weeks back. I don't know if you read it, I'm afraid it got deleted with the rest of the old forum (or is there a backup somewhere?). In short, I wrote that Torres has potential to be a "complete" striker and that IMO the best way to take his game to a new level is to forget about dirty work and concentrate entirely on finishing, like Sheva did in his first season in Milan and Henry in his first season at Arsenal. That's because his all-around game is already there and it will not go away, but finishing will make the difference between him becoming a superstar or another talented player who never quite realized his potential.

I think Fernando's problems with finishing are very different in nature than Kuyt's. Dirk simply doesn't have that natural feel for the ball. Fernando does have the feel, his problems are mostly psychological, which is normal for a young striker: neither Sheva nor Henry were particularly clinical finishers at his age, they developed it with time. That's why I think it's crucial for Torres to play up front and leave dirty work for someone else.
[/quote]

Interesting theory.

I think they should share the duties between them; see what works in which situation.

 

[rurikbird]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg327432#msg327432 date=1185865568]
[quote author=rurikbird link=topic=14248.msg327428#msg327428 date=1185865114]I already did look at Torres in this way in another thread a few weeks back. I don't know if you read it, I'm afraid it got deleted with the rest of the old forum (or is there a backup somewhere?). In short, I wrote that Torres has potential to be a "complete" striker and that IMO the best way to take his game to a new level is to forget about dirty work and concentrate entirely on finishing, like Sheva did in his first season in Milan and Henry in his first season at Arsenal. That's because his all-around game is already there and it will not go away, but finishing will make the difference between him becoming a superstar or another talented player who never quite realized his potential.

I think Fernando's problems with finishing are very different in nature than Kuyt's. Dirk simply doesn't have that natural feel for the ball. Fernando does have the feel, his problems are mostly psychological, which is normal for a young striker: neither Sheva nor Henry were particularly clinical finishers at his age, they developed it with time. That's why I think it's crucial for Torres to play up front and leave dirty work for someone else.
[/quote]

Interesting theory.

I think they should share the duties between them; see what works in which situation.
[/quote]

Yes, and I think that's exactly what is going to happen, at the start of the season anyway.

Also, in the games when Torres is going to be paired with Crouch, Fernando will definitely play "in the hole" and I think you might get your wish. With Torres in support, Crouch might prove to be surprisingly effective.

 

[robinhood]

It makes sense that on the counter, Torres should play on the shoulder of the defender. And when pressing high, it makes sense for him to work his magic around the box, with Kuyt in the box using physical strength.

We'll see though. I probably shouldn't be so negative about them, but I would have bought Huntelaar, Quaresma and Mancini, and played 433.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg327431#msg327431 date=1185865502]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=14248.msg327430#msg327430 date=1185865395]OK, so i expect no more shit line-up with Gerrard on the right flank from you in future.
[/quote]

Why don't you ring your mate Rafa up and get him to stop playing Gerrard on the right. Then I'll stop predicting in him on the right in future line-ups.
[/quote]

Tell me out of 50 games last season how many games did Gerrard play at right wing??? Fucking hell.

 

[robinhood]

He played quite a few and RM and at second-striker. Neither of them really suit him. The RM is better than the second-striker, though.

I agree that he should be playing in CM with Mascher, but I believe that Rafa prefers him at RM.

 

[rurikbird]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg327438#msg327438 date=1185866843]
He played quite a few and RM and at second-striker. Neither of them really suit him. The RM is better than the second-striker, though.

I agree that he should be playing in CM with Mascher, but I believe that Rafa prefers him at RM.
[/quote]

I think Rafa prefers Gerrard playing a free role and that's why he doesn't put him in DCM because in Rafa's system both CM positions require a lot of discipline and defensive duties. Where Gerrard is nominally starting is not terribly important; when he plays well he's usually all over the pitch.

 

[Oncy]

I am so sorry that i missed this thread yesterday.

As i firmly believe that THIS IS the best 6CM thread ever.

It has everything: Great footie debate, intelligent counter debate, anger, passion, pride, bitterness, distate, rascism, sexism, tollerance, intollerance all with a healthy dose of tongue in cheek comedy thrown in.

You all (even that tongue lolling lackwit Blackie) ought be very VERY proud of that piece of absolute fucking genius banter.

MY highlight is page 10 from Doctor macs post down to Paddy's I was literally crying.

Brilliant brilliant stuff.

Oh and it shouldnt take 16 pages for you to come to the quite correct assumption that Kuyt isnt a very good forward.....he may be a very good defensive midfielder? but goalscorer, frontman, threat......not a fucking sausage.

 

[robinhood]

That's true sometimes, I'm not sure if it's true all the time.

I haven't seen him play one good game starting from the ostensible second striker position. He just can't get in the game.

 

[Sven]

[quote author=rurikbird link=topic=14248.msg327428#msg327428 date=1185865114]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg327418#msg327418 date=1185863733]
[quote author=rurikbird link=topic=14248.msg327366#msg327366 date=1185850128]
but it's Torres who should be mostly playing up front.
[/quote]

It seems like a pretty solid argument in many respects, BUT, it doesn't make sense unless we look at Torres in a similar way, otherwise how would be know who should play each role.

Torres is fast, skillful, clever, is a good passer, is decent in the air, but his finishing is wanton. Perhaps more so than Kuyt's. He's got all the attributes, but he's just known for fluffing chances after having done all the hard work and created a clear chance from nothing.

Kuyt, on the other hand, actually does score when he's allowed to play as the box-striker. I'm sure somebody can produce that goal he scored against Spurs (and there were one or two others from similar situations) when Garcia put a clever ball through to him.

Torres can put these balls through all day - which highlights to me exactly where *he* should play, and Kuyt's intelligent movement and physical strength can work in his favour in the box.

Sure, he'll hit some at the keeper, and he'll hit some wide, but it doesn't mean that Torres wouldn't fluff more.
[/quote]

I already did look at Torres in this way in another thread a few weeks back. I don't know if you read it, I'm afraid it got deleted with the rest of the old forum (or is there a backup somewhere?). In short, I wrote that Torres has potential to be a "complete" striker and that IMO the best way to take his game to a new level is to forget about dirty work and concentrate entirely on finishing, like Sheva did in his first season in Milan and Henry in his first season at Arsenal. That's because his all-around game is already there and it will not go away, but finishing will make the difference between him becoming a superstar or another talented player who never quite realized his potential.

I think Fernando's problems with finishing are very different in nature than Kuyt's. Dirk simply doesn't have that natural feel for the ball. Fernando does have the feel, his problems are mostly psychological, which is normal for a young striker: neither Sheva nor Henry were particularly clinical finishers at his age, they developed it with time. That's why I think it's crucial for Torres to play up front and leave dirty work for someone else.
[/quote]

Sheva was the top scorer in both Ukraine league and in the champions league in his last season for Kiovan Dynamo. In his first season for AC Milan he was top scorer in Serie A. These were in 1999-2000, when Sheva was same age as Torres now.

 

[rurikbird]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg327450#msg327450 date=1185868072]
That's true sometimes, I'm not sure if it's true all the time.

I haven't seen him play one good game starting from the ostensible second striker position. He just can't get in the game.
[/quote]

Yes, he needs at least 2 attackers in front of him when he receives the ball.

 

[rurikbird]

[quote author=Sven link=topic=14248.msg327451#msg327451 date=1185868116]
Sheva was the top scorer in both Ukraine league and in the champions league in his last season for Kiovan Dynamo. In his first season for AC Milan he was top scorer in Serie A. These were in 1999-2000, when Sheva was same age as Torres now.
[/quote]

You are not going to argue about Sheva with a Ukrainian, are you? 🙂

Sheva was 23 when he had a breakthrough in year 1999 (first half with Dynamo and in Milan since September). Torres has just turned 23. Sheva at 22 was not a particularly more clinical finisher than Torres at the same age. Until 1999 he was pretty much playing second fiddle to Rebrov.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=rurikbird link=topic=14248.msg327366#msg327366 date=1185850128]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=14248.msg327333#msg327333 date=1185837838]
[quote author=rurikbird link=topic=14248.msg327307#msg327307 date=1185832835]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=14248.msg327301#msg327301 date=1185832069]

Quite simply, I think the player most likely to forge a partnership with Torres is Kuyt. He has the intelligence and (IMO, obviously) the ability to make it work. Whether you think he's good enough to take us forward here is not really the issue. The issue is whether he is the best option we have available currently and I think it's pretty clear that he is.
[/quote]

I think it depends on where Torres will end up playing. If he plays second striker or "in the hole", than Crouch IMO would make a better partner because Crouch is simply a better inside the box striker than Kuyt. If Torres, on the other hand, plays up front, than Kuyt is clearly the best option we have to support him as a second striker.
[/quote]

Sorry mate but I think you've got that the wrong way around. Kuyt needs to play higher up the pitch to get the best out of him. That's what he did for Feyenoord. What's more, having Kuyt deep exploits his lack of pace making it very difficult for him to overlap and join the attack when necessary (as illustrated by his relative absence in the penalty area last season). The same isn't true of Torres. Not only can he link the play but he has the pace to burst through from deep. IMO, he's never looked truly comfortable as a 'first' striker for Atletico. He looks almost stranded at the top of the pitch. Such is his technical ability I think we'd benefit if he was more involved in the build up play.

As far as I'm concerned this system would play to each players strengths; yours would not.
[/quote]

OK, let's look at Kuyt's main strengths:

1. movement and positioning
2. work rate
3. intelligence

... and weaknesses:

1. lack of pace
2. inconsistent first touch
3. inconsistent finishing

Now, where do you put such a striker to get the best out of him? Let's consider all possibilities.

1. First striker/target man/fox in the box.
The environment inside the penalty area is very different from all other areas of the pitch. One important difference is that it is the most congested area on the pitch with the least amount of space and time to operate. A top level defense almost never allows a striker more than one touch inside the area until he is surrounded and tackled. Therefore, first touch is by far the most crucial part of the game for inside the box strikers, because they only meet with the ball for that one touch, after that they either shoot or the chance is gone.

There are other important qualities too. One is positioning, because at top level you won't get even one touch if you don't win a struggle for position. So positioning is also a must-have. Then there are qualities like finishing and athleticism which determine what kind of inside the box striker you are, a stealth scorer in the mold of Robbie Fowler, Raul or Indzaghi (great finishing, no athleticism) or a target man who brings in other players like Drogba, Crouch or Koller (inconsistent finishing, great athleticism) with the likes of RvN, Trezeguet or Shearer somewhere in between. For Drogba, his athleticism is so overpowering that last season it compensated even for some of his technical shortcomings.

2. Second striker/withdrawn striker/in the hole.

That position is harder to pin down because there is such a great variety of second strikers and they are all very different. Some of them have good pace like Rooney and some are slow but very intelligent like Bergkamp. If there is something to be said about them in general is that the main prerequisites for a withdrawn striker are intelligence, creativity and movement. First touch is still important (it's important at any position), but less so than inside the box, because there is more space and time. Good finishing is welcome, but not required. Usually "in the hole" players are judged more but what they add to the attacking play in general than by the number of goals they score.

3. On the wing.

Pace and dribbling ability are usually the main prerequisites for a winger-striker. First touch and positioning are less important.

======

So where does it leave our Dirk Kuyt? He clearly doesn't belong on the wing, even though he played there sometimes for Holland. His first touch is not good enough for an inside the box striker. For a target man he doesn't have enough athleticism (his height is actually a little bit below average at 184cm), at least not in the Premiership. And for a stealth scorer he doesn't have good enough finishing finesse, although his positioning is top-notch. His movement and creativity and ability to cover a lot of ground will be lost if he is locked inside the box.

You might ask why than was he so successful playing up front in Holland? Well, why wouldn't he be successful when allowed two touches inside the box, against much less athletic defenders and being so intelligent and clearly a class above most of his opponents? He had all the qualities needed for a good target man in Holland, but that doesn't mean he has the qualities to be a target man on the top level.

He does have enough good qualities to be successful on top level, but in a different role. Playing withdrawn striker will take full advantage of his movement, creativity and work-rate and it will somewhat hide his problems with first touch and finishing. It would have been nice if he had more pace, but that's not a must-have for a successful second striker. Besides, if we had someone with pace (read: Torres) on the shoulder of the defender that would make through balls much more effective than if Kuyt was playing up front. So yes, I think they COULD make a good partnership with Torres, but it's Torres who should be mostly playing up front.
[/quote]

I can't believe this post was so criminally overlooked, when so much thought and detail had gone into it.

*applauds rurikbird*

 

[robinhood]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=14248.msg327449#msg327449 date=1185868050]
I am so sorry that i missed this thread yesterday.

As i firmly believe that THIS IS the best 6CM thread ever.

It has everything: Great footie debate, intelligent counter debate, anger, passion, pride, bitterness, distate, rascism, sexism, tollerance, intollerance all with a healthy dose of tongue in cheek comedy thrown in.

You all (even that tongue lolling lackwit Blackie) ought be very VERY proud of that piece of absolute fucking genius banter.

MY highlight is page 10 from Doctor macs post down to Paddy's I was literally crying.

Brilliant brilliant stuff.

Oh and it shouldnt take 16 pages for you to come to the quite correct assumption that Kuyt isnt a very good forward.....he may be a very good defensive midfielder? but goalscorer, frontman, threat......not a fucking sausage.
[/quote]

Stormer of a post, as usual, Oncey.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg327467#msg327467 date=1185869847]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=14248.msg327449#msg327449 date=1185868050]
I am so sorry that i missed this thread yesterday.

As i firmly believe that THIS IS the best 6CM thread ever.

It has everything: Great footie debate, intelligent counter debate, anger, passion, pride, bitterness, distate, rascism, sexism, tollerance, intollerance all with a healthy dose of tongue in cheek comedy thrown in.

You all (even that tongue lolling lackwit Blackie) ought be very VERY proud of that piece of absolute fucking genius banter.

MY highlight is page 10 from Doctor macs post down to Paddy's I was literally crying.

Brilliant brilliant stuff.

Oh and it shouldnt take 16 pages for you to come to the quite correct assumption that Kuyt isnt a very good forward.....he may be a very good defensive midfielder? but goalscorer, frontman, threat......not a fucking sausage.
[/quote]

Stormer of a post, as usual, Oncey.
[/quote]

I wish Mr Oncy would post alot more 🙁

 

[robinhood]

Yeah, he's hardly got any posts to his name.

Such a SKIVER.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg327470#msg327470 date=1185870011]
Yeah, he's hardly got any posts to his name.

Such a SKIVER.
[/quote]

(but they're all in GC and Music/Film, tsk)

 

[Piedro]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=14248.msg327475#msg327475 date=1185870206]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg327470#msg327470 date=1185870011]
Yeah, he's hardly got any posts to his name.

Such a SKIVER.
[/quote]

(but they're all in GC and Music/Film, tsk)
[/quote]

????

 

[robinhood]

It's true, he's a bit like Luis Garcia.

He's not so interested in the bread-and-butter of the football forum, but give him half a chance in one of the less common forums and he's posting for fun.