Kenny Huang leading serious bid for LFC

[Frogfish]

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41235.msg1146615#msg1146615 date=1280711776]
Yeah, no body has 350 million sitting in a bank. 99% certain that any new buyer will use an investment bank to effect take over. 1hich effectively means LBO. But usually the good types move another big asset and reduce the debt soon after take over.

However we are talking about several wealthy individuals backing this. It may just mean that the bidder has the liquidity to complete takeover without help from a bank.
[/quote]

Correct. It's hidden under the carpet.

 

[DHSC]

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41235.msg1146618#msg1146618 date=1280717461]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41235.msg1146578#msg1146578 date=1280703378]
Weren't some of our Malaysian posters a little wary of this guys interest when his name popped up a a few months ago?

[/quote]

TBH Malaysians & especially Singaporeans, are wary of anything to do with mainland China ! It's more to do with the integration of mainland Chinese and their culture & political views into their societies than of anything necessarily wrong with the bid.

However you have to understand that ALL money coming out of China will be in some way illegitimate since virtually all big money earned here has been earned utilising illegal connections and including, in most cases, local governmental assistance. One thing that most Westerners greatly underestimate though is the vast amounts of private capital here. Take a look at the Forbes Rich List from 10 yeas ago and look at it again today, and the list of the World's Billionaires (where China is now 2nd only to the USA and catching them hand over foot) - China is awash with liquid private capital but with little means of external investment.

Also understand that as Kenneth Huang comes from Guangzhou he is just as likely to be well connected to HK as he is to mainland China (since their dialect - Cantonese - is very different from Mandarin but virtually the same as that of HK, and Guangdong province has very strong economic ties with HK). It would be very interesting to know who his backers are - although we are unlikely to find out the individual identities behind any frontmen.
[/quote]

Well to be fair to China, they don't really integrate their culture and political views into Singapore society. In fact, since most of our ancestors were from there, some of the culture has been passed down generation after generation, just that some of the practices and beliefs have changed in terms of application; but the basic premise of 'why we do it' is still there.

I think the 'mistrust' mainly comes from business dealings with mainland China. There have been stories of many Singaporeans being burnt in their business dealings with mainland China. Also, Singapore's liberal immigration policy has seen many foreigners enter our shores. The number of mainland Chinese coming here has increase astronomically over the past ten years. They work for less money, hence the number of dissatisfied Singaporeans has increased since their livelihoods are slowly being taken away. Many of the lower wage jobs, and even the the middle level positions are being taken away by mainland Chinese, thus pushing locals towards unemployment. The service sector has also been hiring mainland Chinese and they can't really speak English so communication becomes a problem, leading to even more unhappiness.

 

[caparo]

[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41235.msg1146625#msg1146625 date=1280719043]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41235.msg1146618#msg1146618 date=1280717461]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41235.msg1146578#msg1146578 date=1280703378]
Weren't some of our Malaysian posters a little wary of this guys interest when his name popped up a a few months ago?

[/quote]

TBH Malaysians & especially Singaporeans, are wary of anything to do with mainland China ! It's more to do with the integration of mainland Chinese and their culture & political views into their societies than of anything necessarily wrong with the bid.

However you have to understand that ALL money coming out of China will be in some way illegitimate since virtually all big money earned here has been earned utilising illegal connections and including, in most cases, local governmental assistance. One thing that most Westerners greatly underestimate though is the vast amounts of private capital here. Take a look at the Forbes Rich List from 10 yeas ago and look at it again today, and the list of the World's Billionaires (where China is now 2nd only to the USA and catching them hand over foot) - China is awash with liquid private capital but with little means of external investment.

Also understand that as Kenneth Huang comes from Guangzhou he is just as likely to be well connected to HK as he is to mainland China (since their dialect - Cantonese - is very different from Mandarin but virtually the same as that of HK, and Guangdong province has very strong economic ties with HK). It would be very interesting to know who his backers are - although we are unlikely to find out the individual identities behind any frontmen.
[/quote]

Well to be fair to China, they don't really integrate their culture and political views into Singapore society. In fact, since most of our ancestors were from there, some of the culture has been passed down generation after generation, just that some of the practices and beliefs have changed in terms of application; but the basic premise of 'why we do it' is still there.

I think the 'mistrust' mainly comes from business dealings with mainland China. There have been stories of many Singaporeans being burnt in their business dealings with mainland China. Also, Singapore's liberal immigration policy has seen many foreigners enter our shores. The number of mainland Chinese coming here has increase astronomically over the past ten years. They work for less money, hence the number of dissatisfied Singaporeans has increased since their livelihoods are slowly being taken away. Many of the lower wage jobs, and even the the middle level positions are being taken away by mainland Chinese, thus pushing locals towards unemployment. The service sector has also been hiring mainland Chinese and they can't really speak English so communication becomes a problem, leading to even more unhappiness.
[/quote]



Overseas Chinese view China the same way the west thinks of Russia. When communism gives way to capitalism, ithose that instantly rise to the top of the wealth charts are usually the less ethical, ypes.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41235.msg1146625#msg1146625 date=1280719043]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41235.msg1146618#msg1146618 date=1280717461]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41235.msg1146578#msg1146578 date=1280703378]
Weren't some of our Malaysian posters a little wary of this guys interest when his name popped up a a few months ago?

[/quote]

TBH Malaysians & especially Singaporeans, are wary of anything to do with mainland China ! It's more to do with the integration of mainland Chinese and their culture & political views into their societies than of anything necessarily wrong with the bid.

However you have to understand that ALL money coming out of China will be in some way illegitimate since virtually all big money earned here has been earned utilising illegal connections and including, in most cases, local governmental assistance. One thing that most Westerners greatly underestimate though is the vast amounts of private capital here. Take a look at the Forbes Rich List from 10 yeas ago and look at it again today, and the list of the World's Billionaires (where China is now 2nd only to the USA and catching them hand over foot) - China is awash with liquid private capital but with little means of external investment.

Also understand that as Kenneth Huang comes from Guangzhou he is just as likely to be well connected to HK as he is to mainland China (since their dialect - Cantonese - is very different from Mandarin but virtually the same as that of HK, and Guangdong province has very strong economic ties with HK). It would be very interesting to know who his backers are - although we are unlikely to find out the individual identities behind any frontmen.
[/quote]

Well to be fair to China, they don't really integrate their culture and political views into Singapore society. In fact, since most of our ancestors were from there, some of the culture has been passed down generation after generation, just that some of the practices and beliefs have changed in terms of application; but the basic premise of 'why we do it' is still there.

I think the 'mistrust' mainly comes from business dealings with mainland China. There have been stories of many Singaporeans being burnt in their business dealings with mainland China. Also, Singapore's liberal immigration policy has seen many foreigners enter our shores. The number of mainland Chinese coming here has increase astronomically over the past ten years. They work for less money, hence the number of dissatisfied Singaporeans has increased since their livelihoods are slowly being taken away. Many of the lower wage jobs, and even the the middle level positions are being taken away by mainland Chinese, thus pushing locals towards unemployment. The service sector has also been hiring mainland Chinese and they can't really speak English so communication becomes a problem, leading to even more unhappiness.
[/quote]

I completely understand what you're saying but it isn't the fault of the immigrants (this happens all over the world .... just ask the British) ... that's just a weak immigration policy and enforcement issue.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=caparo link=topic=41235.msg1146626#msg1146626 date=1280720846]

Overseas Chinese view China the same way the west thinks of Russia. When communism gives way to capitalism, ithose that instantly rise to the top of the wealth charts are usually the less ethical, ypes.
[/quote]

Sorry but that is absolutely not true, maybe 20 years ago. China is now the epitome of capitalism at it's most rife, the only difference being that the government manage the economic lives of those not yet able to participate. China is more 'capitalistic' than the UK ! The main issue here being the government & legal structures haven't yet caught up with business - they are getting there though.

As far as overseas Chinese are concerned if they want to make a fortune they return to China (and are doing so in their thousands), emigration is from those not yet economically sound, students and dissidents. Those that remain overseas mainly do so because they enjoy the lifestyle and status it brings, very few for economic reasons. International investment is from Chinese wanting to diversify their holdings instead of holding everything in RMB but this is very difficult for most people as there are multiple barriers to overseas investment.

The second part of your statement is completely accurate of course.

*RMB = Chinese Yuan

 

[DHSC]

Yup, I'm not saying that it is the fault of the immigrants. Fact is, I think Singaporeans welcome foreigners who can contribute to the economy or fill up the gaps in the job market. What they don't like is the introduction of foreigners into sectors that Singaporeans are able or willing to find work in.

It is not unusual for Singaporeans to feel unhappy over the influx of foreigners into the country. The sentiment is that they're being treated as second class citizens by the government who welcome foreigners with open arms without any regard (seemingly) for the locals. Gernerally, I think Singaporeans are mostly unhappy with the government, but you can't really blame them if they feel a tinge of unhappiness with the foreigners too.

 

[DHSC]

It's interesting who are viewed as overseas Chinese.

I think the modern Singaporean Chinese do not view themselves as overseas Chinese; but Singaporeans. Thus, there really isn't much affiliation with mainland China. We also don't have the option of returning to the 'motherland' because Singapore is our home.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41235.msg1146632#msg1146632 date=1280722149]
Yup, I'm not saying that it is the fault of the immigrants. Fact is, I think Singaporeans welcome foreigners who can contribute to the economy or fill up the gaps in the job market. What they don't like is the introduction of foreigners into sectors that Singaporeans are able or willing to find work in.

It is not unusual for Singaporeans to feel unhappy over the influx of foreigners into the country. The sentiment is that they're being treated as second class citizens by the government who welcome foreigners with open arms without any regard (seemingly) for the locals. Gernerally, I think Singaporeans are mostly unhappy with the government, but you can't really blame them if they feel a tinge of unhappiness with the foreigners too.
[/quote]

The Singaporean government is no different to that of mostly any other country - they want inward investment and so welcome entrepreneurs and MNCs with heavy investment, they welcome students paying through the nose for quality education (but you can't then blame the students for wanting to stay after graduation) and they welcome immigrants willing to be employed doing those jobs most nationals feel are beneath them - but complain if they then better their lives by becoming upwardly mobile. Of course the children, and sometimes relatives, of all these immigrants are then integrated into normal society. There is a price to be paid.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41235.msg1146633#msg1146633 date=1280722456]
It's interesting who are viewed as overseas Chinese.

I think the modern Singaporean Chinese do not view themselves as overseas Chinese; but Singaporeans. Thus, there really isn't much affiliation with mainland China. We also don't have the option of returning to the 'motherland' because Singapore is our home.
[/quote]

The general view in China of 'Overseas Chinese' (Hua Qiao) are those born here and then emigrate. Those born overseas are referred to as BBCs, ABCs etc. (British Born Chinese etc). Other Chinese nationals (Taiwan. Hong Kong) are 'Comrades'. Singaporeans are Singaporeans !

 

[Y1]

DHSC is right on one perspective regarding culture and ethics, and Froggy is also right about the frightening liquidity of the Chinese in China since he has become sino-nised.

Imagine buying real estates and paying for Rolls Royce and Maybach cars in cold hard cash! That is happening in mainlland China. People (well most) do not buy on credits, they buy on cash through their savings.

Li Ka Shing is one of the richest man alive, cash rich. So is his son Richard Li.

 

[DHSC]

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41235.msg1146634#msg1146634 date=1280722668]
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41235.msg1146632#msg1146632 date=1280722149]
Yup, I'm not saying that it is the fault of the immigrants. Fact is, I think Singaporeans welcome foreigners who can contribute to the economy or fill up the gaps in the job market. What they don't like is the introduction of foreigners into sectors that Singaporeans are able or willing to find work in.

It is not unusual for Singaporeans to feel unhappy over the influx of foreigners into the country. The sentiment is that they're being treated as second class citizens by the government who welcome foreigners with open arms without any regard (seemingly) for the locals. Gernerally, I think Singaporeans are mostly unhappy with the government, but you can't really blame them if they feel a tinge of unhappiness with the foreigners too.
[/quote]

The Singaporean government is no different to that of mostly any other country - they want inward investment and so welcome entrepreneurs and MNCs with heavy investment, they welcome students paying through the nose for quality education (but you can't then blame the students for wanting to stay after graduation) and they welcome immigrants willing to be employed doing those jobs most nationals feel are beneath them - but complain if they then better their lives by becoming upwardly mobile. Of course the children, and sometimes relatives, of all these immigrants are then integrated into normal society. There is a price to be paid.
[/quote]

Yup; but the price is something that many Singaporeans do not like paying. I think in the pursuit of economic growth, the social aspects of living in Singapore are neglected. Singapore has one of the world's highest gini coefficients and it just seems that the liberal immigration policy is one of the factors in the rich getting richer. Another thing to note is how small Singapore is. the increase in population has resulted in the infrastructure bursting at the seams.

Singapore's next general election is due in 2012; but a lot of political watchers believe it could be earlier. I guess we'll see then how dissastified the local population is with the current government.

 

[Frogfish]

Ha ha I knew I'd stir up our Sing & Malaysian brothers 😉

I've met Richard Li - seemingly normal guy. What Y1 says is why all this doom & gloom re. China's real estate market is mainly BS - big ticket items are paid for in cash (cars, houses - or 30-40% deposit, jewelry, gold, clothes) - credit cards have so far a virtually zero penetration, most people use debit cards.

Anyway we have strayed way way off topic !

 

[DHSC]

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41235.msg1146635#msg1146635 date=1280722954]
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41235.msg1146633#msg1146633 date=1280722456]
It's interesting who are viewed as overseas Chinese.

I think the modern Singaporean Chinese do not view themselves as overseas Chinese; but Singaporeans. Thus, there really isn't much affiliation with mainland China. We also don't have the option of returning to the 'motherland' because Singapore is our home.
[/quote]

The general view in China of 'Overseas Chinese' (Hua Qiao) are those born here and then emigrate. Those born overseas are referred to as BBCs, ABCs etc. (British Born Chinese etc). Other Chinese nationals (Taiwan. Hong Kong) are 'Comrades'. Singaporeans are Singaporeans !
[/quote]

Singaporeans can be called SBCs. 😉

Now that you mentioned it, it seems that Chinese born in Western countries are called Western Born Chinese. Shouldn't American Born Chinese be just called American? The same way Singapore born Chinese are called Singaporeans.

 

[DHSC]

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41235.msg1146639#msg1146639 date=1280723436]
Ha ha I knew I'd stir up our Sing & Malaysian brothers 😉

I've met Richard Li - normal guy. What Y1 says is why all this doom & gloom re. China's real estate market is mainly BS - big ticket items are paid for in cash (cars, houses - or 30-40% deposit, jewelry, gold, clothes) - credit cards have so far a virtually zero penetration, most people use debit cards.

Anyway we have strayed way way off topic !
[/quote]

No stirring up done Froggy!

It's just nice to have a discussion away from work.

Anyway, I'll be happy to have investment, if only to get rid of the Yanks. I just hope this time round, we get it right.

 

[Frogfish]

DHSC - actually I've lived in HK & China for the past 15 years and have never heard of SBCs. Maybe that is a Singaporean term !?

Chinese still consider Chinese born abroad to be Chinese. Ethnicity, it seems, applies more than passport and birth place, to those born in the 'West'.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41235.msg1146642#msg1146642 date=1280723723]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41235.msg1146639#msg1146639 date=1280723436]
Ha ha I knew I'd stir up our Sing & Malaysian brothers 😉

I've met Richard Li - normal guy. What Y1 says is why all this doom & gloom re. China's real estate market is mainly BS - big ticket items are paid for in cash (cars, houses - or 30-40% deposit, jewelry, gold, clothes) - credit cards have so far a virtually zero penetration, most people use debit cards.

Anyway we have strayed way way off topic !
[/quote]

No stirring up done Froggy!

It's just nice to have a discussion away from work.

Anyway, I'll be happy to have investment, if only to get rid of the Yanks. I just hope this time round, we get it right.
[/quote]

If they invest I'm not worried about the numbers, they should have no problem coming up with whatever they need to buy & develop the stadium, and add a hefty transfer budget too. My only worry would be they will obviously be looking for a good return on their money - although more than likely that will not come from the club directly but from marketing and sales in the Far East, with all the partners having hands in the many pies.

 

[Y1]

[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41235.msg1146640#msg1146640 date=1280723477]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41235.msg1146635#msg1146635 date=1280722954]
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41235.msg1146633#msg1146633 date=1280722456]
It's interesting who are viewed as overseas Chinese.

I think the modern Singaporean Chinese do not view themselves as overseas Chinese; but Singaporeans. Thus, there really isn't much affiliation with mainland China. We also don't have the option of returning to the 'motherland' because Singapore is our home.
[/quote]

The general view in China of 'Overseas Chinese' (Hua Qiao) are those born here and then emigrate. Those born overseas are referred to as BBCs, ABCs etc. (British Born Chinese etc). Other Chinese nationals (Taiwan. Hong Kong) are 'Comrades'. Singaporeans are Singaporeans !
[/quote]

Singaporeans can be called SBCs. 😉

Now that you mentioned it, it seems that Chinese born in Western countries are called Western Born Chinese. Shouldn't American Born Chinese be just called American? The same way Singapore born Chinese are called Singaporeans.

[/quote]

In Malaysia, we are Chinese immigrants. Not Malaysians 😉 according to some ultras.

So we are MBCs.

Wow, Froggy rubs shoulders with Richard? *kowtow*

Yeah, most rich Chinese tycoons normally don't have airs around them. Only the noveau riche try to act up.

I have met the older generations billionaires who would still eat at hawkers wearing flip flops while their chauffeurs wait for them in their Mercs

 

[Frogfish]

LOL @ Y1. Yeah and in their pyjamas too.

 

[Y1]

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41235.msg1146646#msg1146646 date=1280724154]
LOL @ Y1. Yeah and in their pyjamas too.
[/quote]

And white crocodile singlets rolled up their belly too? LOL

Back to discussions.

If an old Chinese Billionaire buys LFC, he will make sure Gerrard, Torres and all work till they drop dead and no salary increase.

If a new Chinese Billionaire buys LFC he will party with the stars and their WAGs and shags all of them! 😉

 

[Peatcheo]

So apart from Chinese politics, anny news on Huang!?

 

[DHSC]

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41235.msg1146643#msg1146643 date=1280723742]
DHSC - actually I've lived in HK & China for the past 15 years and have never heard of SBCs. Maybe that is a Singaporean term !?

Chinese still consider Chinese born abroad to be Chinese. Ethnicity, it seems, applies more than passport and birth place, to those born in the 'West'.
[/quote]

I was joking Froggy, there're no such things as SBCs (yet).

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=41235.msg1146651#msg1146651 date=1280725388]
So apart from Chinese politics, anny news on Huang!?
[/quote]

You have to read between the lines mate 😉

 

[Y1]

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41235.msg1146653#msg1146653 date=1280725651]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=41235.msg1146651#msg1146651 date=1280725388]
So apart from Chinese politics, anny news on Huang!?
[/quote]

You have to read between the lines mate 😉
[/quote]

Chinese Orientals are so inscrutable, it is hard to read anything mate. As a front man, it is even harder to know who is behind him, be it the triads or the descendants of the emperors.

 

[DHSC]

Wouldn't mind if he's abit like Carson Yeung. He seems to be doing good things at Birmingham.

 

[Peatcheo]

[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41235.msg1146656#msg1146656 date=1280725932]
Wouldn't mind if he's abit like Carson Yeung. He seems to be doing good things at Birmingham.
[/quote]

The fact he is never in the press would make me happy if our chairman was the same.

 

[Mistadobalina]

Ive met a couple of Chinese people on my travels as it happens, they were nice.

 

[Y1]

[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=41235.msg1146660#msg1146660 date=1280727083]
Ive met a couple of Chinese people on my travels as it happens, they were nice.
[/quote]

Ahem. Of course we are nice.

But we can stab you with a smile as well.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=41235.msg1146660#msg1146660 date=1280727083]
Ive met a couple of Chinese people on my travels as it happens, they were nice.
[/quote]

LOL. Now that's a bit random. 2 out of how many billions ;D

 

[DHSC]

[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=41235.msg1146657#msg1146657 date=1280726251]
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41235.msg1146656#msg1146656 date=1280725932]
Wouldn't mind if he's abit like Carson Yeung. He seems to be doing good things at Birmingham.
[/quote]

The fact he is never in the press would make me happy if our chairman was the same.
[/quote]

Yeah, and he's willing to stump up the cash, c.f. 11m for Babel.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41235.msg1146628#msg1146628 date=1280721804]
[quote author=caparo link=topic=41235.msg1146626#msg1146626 date=1280720846]

Overseas Chinese view China the same way the west thinks of Russia. When communism gives way to capitalism, ithose that instantly rise to the top of the wealth charts are usually the less ethical, ypes.
[/quote]

Sorry but that is absolutely not true, maybe 20 years ago. China is now the epitome of capitalism at it's most rife, the only difference being that the government manage the economic lives of those not yet able to participate. China is more 'capitalistic' than the UK ! The main issue here being the government & legal structures haven't yet caught up with business - they are getting there though.

As far as overseas Chinese are concerned if they want to make a fortune they return to China (and are doing so in their thousands), emigration is from those not yet economically sound, students and dissidents. Those that remain overseas mainly do so because they enjoy the lifestyle and status it brings, very few for economic reasons. International investment is from Chinese wanting to diversify their holdings instead of holding everything in RMB but this is very difficult for most people as there are multiple barriers to overseas investment.

The second part of your statement is completely accurate of course.

*RMB = Chinese Yuan
[/quote]