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Keep Suarez?

Sell?

  • YES

    Votes: 19 12.3%
  • NO

    Votes: 135 87.7%

  • Total voters
    154
Basically I think the offence was gratuitously violent. It didn't occur during the normal course of a football match. I'd say that he should get the same punishment as someone would for punching a player in the face, unprovoked. Would that normally be 3 matches? Genuine question. If so then I suppose Suarez should get the same.
 
Ross Im just interested in your view on the FA stating that this incident warrants more than the normal 3 match ban for violent conduct. As the ultimate decision will be made by an Independent Tribunal do you think that the FA have compromised the case by making that statement.

This is a genuine question by the way.

In what way do you think it's compromised ?

Did you read the rules ? The rules related to violent conduct are that a standard three game ban can be offered to the player after the game and if accepted negates the need for a hearing. As I pointed out to tombrown the other day something similar happens in Irish criminal law with drug dealers.

They have to state it if they feel a 3 game ban isn't enough. And if you look around at other instances of biting, the last time a footballing authority gave a ban for biting it was 7 games (to Suarez, and that was without a hearing - he accepted it then). Rugby has seen 8 week, and 18 month bans thrown out for biting. In the Defoe case the FA said a yellow card wasn't enough, he should have been red carded and faced a violent conduct charge but they can't overrule the ref (a stupid rule).

So when you consider what was done and his previous disciplinary record there's no way a three ban is going to be enough. There's a number of factors to consider - the bite was harmless, he's done it before, and the ban the last time was 7 games. The first mitigates the length of it, the other two would point you towards a longer ban.
 
In what way do you think it's compromised ?

Did you read the rules ? The rules related to violent conduct are that a standard three game ban can be offered to the player after the game and if accepted negates the need for a hearing. As I pointed out to tombrown the other day something similar happens in Irish criminal law with drug dealers.

They have to state it if they feel a 3 game ban isn't enough. And if you look around at other instances of biting, the last time a footballing authority gave a ban for biting it was 7 games (to Suarez, and that was without a hearing - he accepted it then). Rugby has seen 8 week, and 18 month bans thrown out for biting. In the Defoe case the FA said a yellow card wasn't enough, he should have been red carded and faced a violent conduct charge but they can't overrule the ref (a stupid rule).

So when you consider what was done and his previous disciplinary record there's no way a three ban is going to be enough. There's a number of factors to consider - the bite was harmless, he's done it before, and the ban the last time was 7 games. The first mitigates the length of it, the other two would point you towards a longer ban.

Hard to argue with any of that really.
 
As I recall someone earlier said, something like 'the punishment will be in direct proportion to the media outcry'. I suspect that will, depressingly; be the case.
 
There was no reason for them to come out forthright on Sunday ahead of any investigation and make it clear the 3 match violent conduct ban wouldn't suffice.

This is a perfect example of what I mean. People don't bother to consider the rules and just jump on the bandwagon that it's outrageous that poor Luis gets treated this way.

Here's the rule:


Timings
(i) The Charge
A Charge under these provisions may only be issued within the period of two working days
of the incident (i.e. for a Saturday/Sunday game, a Charge will usually have to be issued
prior to 6pm on the Tuesday). The Charge will be accompanied by all evidence, documents
and written submissions upon which The Association intends to rely.
Where the Charge is not accompanied by an offer of the standard punishment, the Charge
will state that The FA claims that the standard punishment would be clearly insuffi cient, and
the basis for that claim.
 
When someone has served a ban for an offence previously is that the end of it (i.e he's done his time/it's spent) or is it taken into consideration in future when deciding on another charge?
 
In what way do you think it's compromised ?

Did you read the rules ? The rules related to violent conduct are that a standard three game ban can be offered to the player after the game and if accepted negates the need for a hearing. As I pointed out to tombrown the other day something similar happens in Irish criminal law with drug dealers.

They have to state it if they feel a 3 game ban isn't enough. And if you look around at other instances of biting, the last time a footballing authority gave a ban for biting it was 7 games (to Suarez, and that was without a hearing - he accepted it then). Rugby has seen 8 week, and 18 month bans thrown out for biting. In the Defoe case the FA said a yellow card wasn't enough, he should have been red carded and faced a violent conduct charge but they can't overrule the ref (a stupid rule).

So when you consider what was done and his previous disciplinary record there's no way a three ban is going to be enough. There's a number of factors to consider - the bite was harmless, he's done it before, and the ban the last time was 7 games. The first mitigates the length of it, the other two would point you towards a longer ban.

Thanks for your answer to my genuine question.

In answer to your first question. Not sure
In answer to your second question. No

Thats why I asked you a genuine question.
 
When someone has served a ban for an offence previously is that the end of it (i.e he's done his time/it's spent) or is it taken into consideration in future when deciding on another charge?

In football, no idea.

But people want the FA to act like a real court, if they do it will be taken into account.
 
This is a perfect example of what I mean. People don't bother to consider the rules and just jump on the bandwagon that it's outrageous that poor Luis gets treated this way.

Here's the rule:

Rules and laws don't always fit and aren't always right that's why they get changed, amended, revised and deleted all the time.
 
Timings
(i) The Charge
A Charge under these provisions may only be issued within the period of two working days
of the incident (i.e. for a Saturday/Sunday game, a Charge will usually have to be issued
prior to 6pm on the Tuesday). The Charge will be accompanied by all evidence, documents
and written submissions upon which The Association intends to rely.
Where the Charge is not accompanied by an offer of the standard punishment, the Charge
will state that The FA claims that the standard punishment would be clearly insuffi cient, and
the basis for that claim.

Then they've failed to follow their own rules there surely as they have not described the basis for that claim?

Doesn't take away the fact he's acted like a twat here
 
Here's the FA's statement - just wondering where the basis for punishment over 3 games is other than saying it constitutes violent conduct - which is a standard 3 game ban. Where is the basis for a larger ban ?

The FA has charged Liverpool forward Luis Suarez with violent conduct.

The charge follows an incident with Chelsea’s Branislav Ivanovic in yesterday’s fixture at Anfield [21 April 2013].

The incident was not seen by the match officials and has therefore been retrospectively reviewed – click here for a video explanation of ‘not seen incidents’.

It is alleged that the conduct of Suarez constitutes violent conduct and it is The FA’s contention that the standard punishment of three matches that would otherwise apply is clearly insufficient in these circumstances.

Suarez has until 6pm on Tuesday 23 April to respond to the charge, thereafter an Independent Regulatory Commission will be convened this Wednesday, 24 April.
Read more at http://www.thefa.com/News/governance/2013/apr/luis-suarez-charge-liverpool-chelsea-ivanovic#sEr8WuuVDo9DQJ5s.99
 
Here's the FA's statement - just wondering where the basis for punishment over 3 games is other than saying it constitutes violent conduct - which is a standard 3 game ban. Where is the basis for a larger ban ?

The FA has charged Liverpool forward Luis Suarez with violent conduct.

The charge follows an incident with Chelsea’s Branislav Ivanovic in yesterday’s fixture at Anfield [21 April 2013].

The incident was not seen by the match officials and has therefore been retrospectively reviewed – click here for a video explanation of ‘not seen incidents’.

It is alleged that the conduct of Suarez constitutes violent conduct and it is The FA’s contention that the standard punishment of three matches that would otherwise apply is clearly insufficient in these circumstances.

Suarez has until 6pm on Tuesday 23 April to respond to the charge, thereafter an Independent Regulatory Commission will be convened this Wednesday, 24 April.
Read more at http://www.thefa.com/News/governance/2013/apr/luis-suarez-charge-liverpool-chelsea-ivanovic#sEr8WuuVDo9DQJ5s.99

The rational is clearly there.
 
Then they've failed to follow their own rules there surely as they have not described the basis for that claim?

Doesn't take away the fact he's acted like a twat here

They only have to inform Suarez, not the media. I presume they've done that
 
The incident was not seen by the match officials and has therefore been retrospectively reviewed

They can't even do officialese properly. All reviews are retrospective, the great twerps!
 
Cameron's stuck his oar in AGAIN.

Here's what the Guardian thinks of him getting involved:

As part of English football's ongoing commitment to self-parody, I should like Carlos Tevez to resurrect his baby's dummy goal celebration next time Manchester City play Liverpool. Between that and Luis Suárezrunning around biting people, the pitch would resemble a giant nursery. Ideally, half-time would see the ground staff lay out lots of foam mats on the pitch, and players would be given a cup of milk and told to lie down on one of them for a nap.The supernanny figure in all of this, of course, would be David Cameron, whose inevitable intervention into the Suárez nonsense this week read like another wrong answer to cult cartoon strip You Are The Prime Minister.

The best thing you can say about Cameron's contribution is that it didn't set a precedent. That precedent, naturally, was set by his predecessor-but-one. In seeking to pinpoint the exact moment prime ministerial perspective was irretrievably lost, many will cite the time Tony Blair went on Richard and Judy and called for the then England manager Glenn Hoddle to quit (I shall leave it to more eminent theologians than I to determine the precise level of irony in someone who believes in transubstantiation seeing fit to query the eccentricities of someone else's religious beliefs).As I say, many will claim that Hoddle intervention was the lapsarian moment. In fact, though, the watershed had come a year earlier, when Blair had affected to order the home secretary to investigate a miscarriage of justice involving one Deirdre Rachid.

When the prime minister of the day takes to the dispatch box in the cause of a fictional soap opera character, the floodgates have not been so much opened as detonated.So on the one hand, it was hardly a surprise to find Downing Street going the extra mile this week in response to a reporter's question about Suárez. "It is rightly a matter for the football authorities to consider," opined the PM's official spokesman, before refusing to leave it at that. "As part of their consideration," he instructed, "I think it would be very understandable if they took into account that high-profile players are often role models."

Well quite. It starts with mere footballers doing the biting, but before you know it their nefarious methods have corrupted the entire upper strata of British public life. If Cameron doesn't get a grip of this crisis now – RIGHT NOW – it is perfectly possible to imagine a time in which, say, the director general of the BBC might be moved to nip a professional colleague on the arm. I think it would be helpful to start thinking of these people as the biters within.

And yet ... having just lived through the fortnight of political nostalgiaporn since Margaret Thatcher's death, it is impossible not to be struck by the fact that there really was a time – before Tony – when prime ministers might have felt it beneath their office to offer a comment on a disciplinary breach on a football field. It is completely inconceivable to imagine John Major wading into such a matter, even when Duncan Ferguson was actually jailed for the headbutt that broke the camel's back. If Major had a view about all those horrors who used to butt Alan Shearer's elbow, he did the public the courtesy of keeping it to himself. His predecessors were similarly content to limit their public utterances to frivolities such as "the economy" or "social policy."How unfathomable that now seems.

As the self-styled heir to Blair, Cameron simply refuses to keep Ordinary People in the dark on these vital footballing matters, perhaps imagining that he is speaking to them in the only language the poor dolts understand.He lost no time in telling us that he thought Fabio Capello was a good man and a good coach, but that the Italian was wrong to object to the FA's decision to remove John Terry as England captain. We know he doesn't like discrimination in football, last year convening a bizarre Downing Street "summit" on the matter – an event as stagy as it was woolly-minded.We know he was "frustrated" by Panorama's expose of Fifa corruption coming on the eve of the 2018 World Cup vote, apparently so clueless as to think England was within a million miles of being gifted the tournament by a so-called Fifa family that transparently detests us.

We know he was in a frightful bate about the possibility of England players not being allowed to wear poppies on their shirts, and we know he found the other weekend's violent skirmishes in Newcastle and at Wembley "deplorable" and more.On sporting matters that intersect more significantly with his day job, however, Mr Cameron is conspicuously silent.

On the breaking of coalition promises not to continue the sell-off of playing fields, he declines to be drawn. Last year, he refused to comment on the Bahrain Grand Prix despite the backdrop of protests and allegations of human rights abuse, insisting that it was only "a matter for Formula One."If only football were also deemed capable of getting along without him. But if we must have a facile debate about role models, perhaps it is worth asking whether prime ministers ought to have more pressing things to do with their time than lavish it on babyish fouls.

That, one can't help feeling, is the rather more biting question.
 
Suarez is our generation's Maradona, minus the cocaine. Supremely gifted nutter who's hated by most of England.

Oh Christ imagine the scenario where Uruguay and England may meet in a world cup quarter final or something and Suarez scores an offside goal or with his hand or something. That would be fucking hilarious. The country would implode. They'd have to recall parliament
 
Oh Christ imagine the scenario where Uruguay and England may meet in a world cup quarter final or something and Suarez scores an offside goal or with his hand or something. That would be fucking hilarious. The country would implode. They'd have to recall parliament

A prophet you are too?
 
The 'rules' basically state that the FA can do what it likes, when it likes, how it likes and then maintain they've left it all to an 'independent' commission which is of course free from their interference (as in this case where they publically say the normal punishment is insufficient before the panel is even convened!). We all know they'll be in the ears of the independents, who I've no doubt will be known to them.

Hopefully* the commission will deal with the offence and not the personality.



* how naive am I?

At the risk of sounding wilfully ignorant and stupid; very naive!!!
 
I've missed all this and fucked if I'm wading through 40 pages. Anyone got a link to the jokes?

Erm....media....disgrace....victimisation.... etc.
 
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