Karius - Has there been a wurst goal keeper?
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Sadly so. I meant in terms of playing for us and I can't see him ever pulling on the shirt for the senior side again
That's because the defense in front of him is so well marshalled he seldom has to face a shot in anger
How can you even begin to discuss 'the biggest difference' between them when you've hardly seen one of them play? One is an established keeper in the team, the other has barely played. THAT'S the biggest difference.
Why has Klopp persisted with Karius then? I suspect he might think Karius is the better keeper.
He dropped Ming last season for Karius when Ming didn't do much wrong until the pressure got too much for Karius so he took him out of the firing line.
This season he seems to be "easing" Karius in again. Slowly, but surely.
He dropped Ming last season for Karius when Ming didn't do much wrong until the pressure got too much for Karius so he took him out of the firing line.
This season he seems to be "easing" Karius in again. Slowly, but surely.
Of course. You don't bring in a keeper of his age, status and price to be a permanent back up. And they don't come to be that. So he'll eventually have to prove himself or be sold.
I have absolutely no idea if Karius will settle down and start realising the potential that German football fans said he has. But the determination of some fans to rush to definitive judgements is just sad. If anyone on here saw Grobbelaar's first season at LFC, they'll know that if forums had been around then the feedback would have been absolutely brutal. In terms of errors, horrible decisions and poor performances, Brucie that season makes Karius now seem stable. Let's not pretend to be in a position to dismiss or embrace the guy. Wait, worry, and see.
I have absolutely no idea if Karius will settle down and start realising the potential that German football fans said he has. But the determination of some fans to rush to definitive judgements is just sad. If anyone on here saw Grobbelaar's first season at LFC, they'll know that if forums had been around then the feedback would have been absolutely brutal. In terms of errors, horrible decisions and poor performances, Brucie that season makes Karius now seem stable. Let's not pretend to be in a position to dismiss or embrace the guy. Wait, worry, and see.
If you havent seen him make any saves, you are either being obtuse or just want to add fuel to an unnecessary shite fire and thread.
So, here are some saves for you;
I think Mig has been a considerably better keeper last season and has done nothing spectacularly wrong this season... It took him a good number of years to get anywhere near good but he is not scary to read on the team sheet anymore. The main area of improvement in his game has been his kicking and distribution, he was always a good(ish) shot stopper the main difference is that he has realised he can't be a nervous wreck, Goalies make mistakes, they all do even the great goalies, but Mig used to go into the nets so nervous he was gonna fuck it up that he unnerved his own defenders and the crowd and thereafter fucked it up.
One area he has also improved but not yet enough is coming for the high ball but even in that he is much better than he was. Until last season Mig cost us points overall every season, his patent shitness and nerves was the reason we bought Karius in the first place, but fair fucking play to him after getting booted out the side he got lucky because Karius was clearly not ready himself and when Mig came back into the side he kept winning us points.... finally he deserved to be in there and it showed in his confidence.
Karius still hasn't impressed in any way at all but then it is also true if we want him to succeed he will need game time, maybe dropping Mig for the Champs league is insulting for Mig but then maybe having genuine place competition is a good idea.
As for Bogdan I feel sorry for him in a way, he was bought by us because he played a blinder against us in the Cup and then was thrust into a cup game for us when the whole team played like shit and he had 1 bad mistake in 1 game and that was the end for him....
The lad we had away on loan at Huddersfield may well be our best available keeper.
Worst Goaly ever?? Hmmm... it's hard to say.... David James was fucking awful a lot of the time... but then he wasn't...
Players change over their careers and some of that change is clearly due to mentality, Riise was never a really great left back but he was at times certainly good enough, sadly he was subbed in against Chelsea in the semi we lost to them when his confidence had already been shot to pieces in the season leading up to the game and the could feel the tension drift down from the crowd and sure enough he fucks up and costs us another CL final visit.
Yes, we need a better goaly, and there are a number about, that Butland lad looks nifty, and yes we could use a better defender or group of defenders, DM etc, but I've seen all of them players who dropped points this week play some really fucking good footy so... they have my support... we are the twelfth man after all... something to do on a weekend eh...
One area he has also improved but not yet enough is coming for the high ball but even in that he is much better than he was. Until last season Mig cost us points overall every season, his patent shitness and nerves was the reason we bought Karius in the first place, but fair fucking play to him after getting booted out the side he got lucky because Karius was clearly not ready himself and when Mig came back into the side he kept winning us points.... finally he deserved to be in there and it showed in his confidence.
Karius still hasn't impressed in any way at all but then it is also true if we want him to succeed he will need game time, maybe dropping Mig for the Champs league is insulting for Mig but then maybe having genuine place competition is a good idea.
As for Bogdan I feel sorry for him in a way, he was bought by us because he played a blinder against us in the Cup and then was thrust into a cup game for us when the whole team played like shit and he had 1 bad mistake in 1 game and that was the end for him....
The lad we had away on loan at Huddersfield may well be our best available keeper.
Worst Goaly ever?? Hmmm... it's hard to say.... David James was fucking awful a lot of the time... but then he wasn't...
Players change over their careers and some of that change is clearly due to mentality, Riise was never a really great left back but he was at times certainly good enough, sadly he was subbed in against Chelsea in the semi we lost to them when his confidence had already been shot to pieces in the season leading up to the game and the could feel the tension drift down from the crowd and sure enough he fucks up and costs us another CL final visit.
Yes, we need a better goaly, and there are a number about, that Butland lad looks nifty, and yes we could use a better defender or group of defenders, DM etc, but I've seen all of them players who dropped points this week play some really fucking good footy so... they have my support... we are the twelfth man after all... something to do on a weekend eh...
Alternative title:
Karius - Has there been a wurst goal keeper?
Karius - Has there been a wurst goal keeper?
The whole saga of the keeper discussion, since Karius arrived, hasn't been anything to be proud about. It's mainly been based on negatives rather than positives, and rash reaction rather than considered anticipation. Take when Karius arrived: 'Karius must start,' was the cry of many, based not on any knowledge of Karius' abilities but rather on dissatisfaction with Mignolet. Then Karius started badly and the cry went up for Ming, not because of any knowledge that he'd improved but rather because they suddenly didn't like the look of Karius, and rather than pause for a bit of much-needed critical self-reflection they opted for another bout of largely irrational flipflopping. Then Ward looked quite good for Huddersfield - nowhere near good enough to have made fans think, if he hadn't any LFC connections, 'Klopp MUST go out and buy that Huddersfield keeper, he looks the answer!', but because he was on our books he became a new repository of our wildly contrary cocktail of blind faith and dogmatic scepticism. And when Ward makes his first mistake, who knows, Karius might suddenly be touted as the answer.
I think we need to step back and take a break. First, I don't think any keeper is going to look good until we get an improved back four. So keep slagging off the keeper if you want but it ain't going to change no matter who you put in there behind a chaotic defence.
We also don't just need an improved defence, we need a defence that is composed of tough, bright leaders. Hopefully VVD would start that change. To go back to Grobbelaar, the main reason he got through that AWFUL start was that the likes of Thompson and Hansen and other defenders never stopped telling him what he was doing wrong - and what he should do to make it right. They were his teachers. Ming and Karius are surrounded by silent halfwits.
And the other thing is: we can do without the fan mindset that stays resolutely cynical about each new keeper. They all take time to settle and improve. If they never look like progressing, well, that's another story, but there's nothing to be gained from this remorseless obsession with itemising errors (some of which are highly debatable anyway in terms of seriously and accurately apportioning blame).
I think we need to step back and take a break. First, I don't think any keeper is going to look good until we get an improved back four. So keep slagging off the keeper if you want but it ain't going to change no matter who you put in there behind a chaotic defence.
We also don't just need an improved defence, we need a defence that is composed of tough, bright leaders. Hopefully VVD would start that change. To go back to Grobbelaar, the main reason he got through that AWFUL start was that the likes of Thompson and Hansen and other defenders never stopped telling him what he was doing wrong - and what he should do to make it right. They were his teachers. Ming and Karius are surrounded by silent halfwits.
And the other thing is: we can do without the fan mindset that stays resolutely cynical about each new keeper. They all take time to settle and improve. If they never look like progressing, well, that's another story, but there's nothing to be gained from this remorseless obsession with itemising errors (some of which are highly debatable anyway in terms of seriously and accurately apportioning blame).
Excellent post. Would add only that IMO one important building-block in what we need to do will be stiffening the protection the back four gets from midfield. Klopp's apparently not a fan of DMs generally, which will make Keita's arrival particularly significant. In fact I'd like to think we might infuse some more fire into our midfield's bellies from somewhere in time, in addition to Keita.
I remember a game at Anfield. Can't remember opposition, but they got a free kick at the Kop end, around 25 yards out. He lined the wall up to cover one half of the goal and then promptly stood behind it. Queue ball sailing into the other side of the goal with Hooper stood rooted to the spot. He was useless.
Probably our best ever back up keeper was Steve Ogrizovic, who only played for us three or four times in five years but went on to be really impressive elsewhere.
But another part of the problem we and all other clubs have now is that the back up keeper doesn't play in the reserves. Karius should have been playing week in, week out for the reserves, with Achterberg holding long and thorough analyses after each performance, going through every single aspect of the game and his performance. That's how he'd improve, if he can improve - hard work in low profile games, not coming on to be booed and groaned at from the first minute in major first team games. No outfield player would get a chance in the first team simply because he hasn't played for a bit - he'd have to do what, say, Ings is doing, playing in the ressies, getting match fit and striving to impress. If you're a keeper and you currently have problems with your kicking and general distribution, or your punching, positioning, whatever the hell it is, then you need real and competitive match situations to really work on that and build up confidence. These days we just bung the player into the first team, confidence at basement level, and hope that he gets an easy couple of games to get settled. It'll be more through luck than judgement if that ever works. I'd suggest a solution but I don't see one.
But another part of the problem we and all other clubs have now is that the back up keeper doesn't play in the reserves. Karius should have been playing week in, week out for the reserves, with Achterberg holding long and thorough analyses after each performance, going through every single aspect of the game and his performance. That's how he'd improve, if he can improve - hard work in low profile games, not coming on to be booed and groaned at from the first minute in major first team games. No outfield player would get a chance in the first team simply because he hasn't played for a bit - he'd have to do what, say, Ings is doing, playing in the ressies, getting match fit and striving to impress. If you're a keeper and you currently have problems with your kicking and general distribution, or your punching, positioning, whatever the hell it is, then you need real and competitive match situations to really work on that and build up confidence. These days we just bung the player into the first team, confidence at basement level, and hope that he gets an easy couple of games to get settled. It'll be more through luck than judgement if that ever works. I'd suggest a solution but I don't see one.
Karius played every game for Mainz in the Bundesliga before he joined, there was no reason for his confidence to be rock bottom, or his general goalkeeping skills to need work, which is why as soon as he was fit, he went straight into the team. He wasn't a "back-up".
And that wasn't an error by Klopp (ignoring the dreadful displays he produced). He was brought in as a player who could go straight into the team, with plenty of top-level experience as a first-team goalkeeper in a very strong league.
He wasn't playing for Doncaster when we signed him.
Well misunderstood. You are close to making an art of it. I didn't mean when he first came into the team, I meant when he returned after that poor start. As I have absolutely no doubt that you knew.
OK, so why was he so shit when he joined then?
And perhaps that has had a deleterious effect on the expectations and confidence in him subsequently.
The difference is Karius doesn't support LFC
You can tell that from his performances.
The goal looked far worse from the TV angle high above the players, because you could see it coming. The main problem, at normal level, he had a big fecking wall in front of him and he couldn't see it coming. Wherever he stood, unless the ball was pinged over more or less straight at him, he was going to be struggling to even move before the ball was past him. No amount of gazing at slo-mo replays will change that, but it will make it look way worse than it was. But all our keepers need to learn from that. At that distance, don't have a wall and let the keeper just deal with the shot.
I know his barrels were awesome but Mike Hooper really should have changed his surname to Heeper.
Barca we’re doing it a few seasons back I think.
Anyway, I’ve zero faith in Karius. That free kick would have been saved by Mignolet every time, and I’ve always wanted Mignolet replaced.
He’s shite (Karius).
He's got that Ian Walker hairstyle still intact though after every match. I reckon that's his aim each match - to keep his hair in shape.
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