We should set him free and allow him to reach his full potential on another site.
Jorginho vs Ruben Neves
- Thread starter rurikbird
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Status
yes, he should go elsewhere so he can win shit
Yeah, this
I would go for Neves as he is younger stronger and probably more able to fit the high-intensity pressing style that Klopp favours. But from what I have heard Neves is more of an Alonso rather than a Mascherano, will that be an issue? Arent we looking for someone to be an aggressive DM first and playmaker as an added bonus or is it the other way around? But at least Neves has been roughing it in the Championship so maybe he has the balls to be that aggressive strong presence at the base of the midfield that we need. Although to be fair how many aggressive DM are there in the top 6? I don't think even Man City even have one (Fernandino?). Maybe the game has changed a little but I still personally would love to see a Mascherano type there at the back giving oppostion teams the willies lol
Klopp has shown no interest in getting a DM and i can't see him changing now. I love Jorginho's short range passing but he's just too slow and lightweight for me. A guy his height and only 65kg? Fuck me coutinho is shorter than him and yet weighs more and you would hardly call him built.
Your cube was shite though.
If we get a Xabi lite type player I'd be happy with that, and very few managers to really get the best out of a top talent then Klopp.
If the downside to us winning the league is Mendes get even more rich then I'm ok with that... and to be honest If Neves comes along and helps us with the league with some crazy outside of the box stormers and then wants to leave for Barca for half a billion then i'm ok with that
If the downside to us winning the league is Mendes get even more rich then I'm ok with that... and to be honest If Neves comes along and helps us with the league with some crazy outside of the box stormers and then wants to leave for Barca for half a billion then i'm ok with that
Do you really think we can win the league with a 22 year old in his first EPL season as the heart and "brains" of the team? I would trade winning the league for Mendes getting richer in a heartbeat, but the reality is that so far in our recent history we almost always had our best player plucked right when we on the cusp of greatness – Xabi when were 2nd (7th the following season), Suarez also when we were 2nd (6th the following season), Phil also left when we were on the upswing, fortunately it didn't affect us too much, so far. This is not how you win leagues; you win leagues by building a platform for success in one season where maybe you come up a bit short and then building on top of that. Man City came 3rd last season, imagine that instead of strengthening they lost De Bruyne? This has been our pattern since early 2000's and that's why the best we have to show for all these years in the league is a couple of "nearly" seasons.
I want something more. Sure Jorginho is a risk initially – if he can't adjust to this league we will have wasted £50M and valuable time. But if it does work out, we will have gained a fundamental player for the next 5 years, a top-class playmaker in the best years of his career, one who came here for titles and glory, not as a stepping stone. Mourinho knows a thing or two about winning titles (which he is not exactly shy to point out) and the fact that he is also interested in Jorginho tells me that he is thinking the same thing – this is a player who can add the extra quality and consistency for a title run.
Last edited:
Or King Binny..
How and why are you not working for the club in some kind of analytical role?
A-jorg isn't xabi-esq
B- he doesn't score worldies from outside the box
C-seriously though neves is clearly not enough to win us the prem,my point was if he came to us, developed and then helped us over the next season or two and we won the prem and left at his peak I think id be ok with that.
D-a few top quality walk into the team, at their peak kinda players would be great
Spat mybeer out there.
I think jorginho would take at least a season to adjust with his light frame. I think Neves would adjust quicker as he's had a kicking in the championship.
[article]Napoli's game virtually goes through him, and he is able to set the tempo and control everything. No player in Europe has completed more passes than him in 2017.
When asked about his most difficult opponent, Roma's Belgian star Radja Nainggolan replied: "I must name Jorginho, because it is very difficult to mark him out of action. He distributes the ball very quickly, and you get tired running after it. It takes a lot of energy to prevent him from executing his plan."
It is a huge honour to get such a compliment from the Ninja, and Jorginho proved himself versus Roma again this past Saturday as Napoli won 1-0 in a crucial game at the Olimpico.
And yet, Italy coaches bizarrely chose to ignore Jorginho's skills. Antonio Conte tried him twice as a substitute in friendlies, but controversially didn't include him in the squad for Euro 2016. Gian Piero Ventura went even further -- he openly declared that the star doesn't suit him in the slightest.
"Jorginho is a good player, but there is no space for him in our 4-2-4 formation," he said.
The thing is that Ventura's tactical plan didn't really work in recent World Cup qualifiers. Italy were thrashed 3-0 in Spain, couldn't beat Macedonia at home and had significant problems in narrow 1-0 wins over the likes of Israel and Albania. The criticism has been harsh, and even the coach's former assistant, Carlo Tebi, claimed that his friend is wrong: "Ventura thinks like a club coach. It is unthinkable to leave such a good player at home."
Jorginho wouldn't have had such problems if Giovanni Trappatoni had still been in charge of the national team. One of the greatest Italian coaches ever, Trappatoni spotted the midfielder's potential back in 2013 when he played for Verona.
"He has brilliant feet, can play in various positions on the pitch and is very smart," Trapattoni said, predicting a great future for the rising star.
Jorginho was indeed hugely influential for Verona, whom he helped to get promoted that year, but it took him time to prove his worth there, and his life story is quite unusual. His mother, Maria Tereza, was his first coach and the greatest force behind the development of his career.
She taught him to play on the beaches of Santa Catarina in Southern Brazil when he was a small kid. She convinced him to join an academy established by Italian businessmen at the age of 13, even though it was 180 kilometers from their hometown of Imbituma. She didn't allow him to run away from the rather spartan facilities that lacked electricity and hot water. Eventually, she was delighted for him when agents sold the 15-year-old to Verona.
He stayed there on a weekly salary of just €20, and at times was ready to abandon the dream and go home. Rafael, Verona's Brazilian keeper, was astonished to hear the story, took the youngster under his wing and advised him to work with his agent. At the age of 18, Jorginho was finally able to sign a real contract, but Verona coach Andrea Mandorlini didn't know him. He didn't follow him during loan spell at tiny fourth division Sambonifacese, either, and intended to get rid of him in the summer of 2011.
However, one of the directors, who knew Jorginho from his days in Brazil, convinced Mandorlini to give the boy a chance. The midfielder produced man of the match performance in one of his first fixtures, and never looked back. Over more than two seasons at Verona, he played in almost every position, but always preferred the role of the deep lying playmaker. Pirlo had always been his role model, and that is how he is used at Napoli nowadays.
The start wasn't smooth after the club managed to beat Juventus, Milan, Liverpool, Chelsea and Zenit to his signature in January 2014, because Rafa Benitez didn't find the best spot for him. Maurizio Sarri, on the other hand, made Jorginho the lynchpin of his plans. The partnership with Marek Hamsik proved to be sensational, making the €10 million fee paid for the Brazilian-born prodigy look laughably low.
"Sarri made me better. It is great to feel the confidence of the coach and my teammates. That means that I reached an important degree of maturity," the 25-year-old confessed in the beginning of the season, stating that the team is ready to fight for the league title.
That is what they are doing, with the perfect record from the first eight matches.
Jorginho's part in the magnificent start can't be overestimated, but that wasn't enough to convince Ventura.
"I have to respect his decision, but I don't agree with it and don't understand it," the disappointed midfielder said.
With the hope gone, he is ready to make the switch and fulfil the dream that seemed impossible when he was younger -- to wear the yellow shirt of Brazil at the World Cup.
This is why the game on Tuesday, with Tite watching closely, is one of the most important of his career. Jorginho is about to face Fernandinho, who fights for the same spot in the Selecao lineup, alongside Real Madrid's Casemiro. The trio differ in style, and the Napoli star has a chance to convince the coach that his qualities should be taken into account. Could Brazil have found their own Pirlo?[/article]
[article]Alonso: “I really like Jorginho, he’s not a well-known player but he’s perfect for Napoli. He’s always involved in the play, giving alternatives to his teammates and great dynamism.”[/article]
[article]Jorginho, who played in Italy's 1-1 draw with England at Wembley on Tuesday, said he believed his game would be suited to the Premier League.
"I think that I could fit. It depends on who else is around me -- I need players with the same characteristics that I have," he added.
"There are English teams with this style of play, ball on the ground, quick transitions, high pressure.
"If one of those teams wanted me, I could fit and the other way round. My football way is not an usual one."[/article]
[article]At times this season Liverpool have struggled when they’ve come up against teams using a low block – sides who sit deep and allow Klopp’s men to dictate the ball while they dictate the space. It’s not happened as often as of late, with Salah, Roberto Firmino and Sadio Manè all firing, but draws in the Premier League have been their undoing. Burnley are the only team inside of the top ten to have drawn more matches.
You can forgive draws against Chelsea, Manchester United, Arsenal and Spurs. But teams with title aspirations should be beating West Brom, Everton, Burnley, Newcastle United and Watford.
The common theme in most of those matches was the lack of guile on show. Likewise, the defeat to Swansea City saw Liverpool just run out of ideas going forward and they resorting to just crossing balls into the area.
Jorginho could be their skeleton key. His ingenuity on the ball could literally be the difference between a top four challenge and battling it out for the title next season.
In the picture above you see Jorginho in possession of the ball. Napoli, despite being 2-0 up on the night, need another goal to progress in the Europa League. RB Leipzig have eight men behind the ball and there’s no obvious passing option on the the Italian midfielder. The one highlighted can easily be cut out.
Jorginho, rushed into playing a pass by the RB Leipzig man pressing him, manages to float a ball perfectly over the top of Dayot Upamecano and onto the head of Lorenzo Tonelli. Unfortunately for Napoli it’s the defender making the run into the area and not Dries Mertens, Lorenzo Insigne, José Callejón or Hamsik.
There wasn’t even much space in behind for Jorginho to play that pass and yet he nails it. Imagine the damage Salah and Mané would do with their runs outside to in with him pulling the strings.
It’s a similar story above. Jorginho has picked the ball up in a deep area and Lazio look well organised. Simone Inzaghi’s men have all ten outfield players behind the ball, looking to defend their 1-0 lead, and passes into central areas are well blocked. There’s a pass to Elseid Hysaj on the right but it’s playing into Lazio’s hands by keeping the play in wide areas.
Now, Jorginho’s pass to Callejón is unnerving. It’s weighted superbly, with backspin, and the former Real Madrid man doesn’t have to break his stride to bring it under his spell. The ball over the top looks simple but that’s because the Italy international makes it look easy. He takes all ten players out of the game.
He can do it over short distances, too. In the above, against Atalanta, he’s in the final third and he’s fronted up by three opposition players. They’re blocking a pass along the floor and a lofted one is tricky in such a small area of space. It’s worth noting here that the Atalanta backline is poorly positioned and definitely helps Jorginho make his mind up.
The No.8, on his weaker left foot, just delicately lifts the ball over the advancing players and into the path of the Insigne. It couldn’t have been executed any better and Atalanta are fortunate to get the ball clear before they’re punished.
Jorginho seems ideal for Klopp’s Liverpool system. For the rumoured £40million he could be yet another bargain arriving on Merseyside from Serie A, just a few years after he was initially identified as a target.[/article]
Last edited:
Thank you @King Binny, that's a superb read. And maybe we should sign Jorginho's mom too 🙂
Not sure you give Neves enough credit, but understand why you love Jorginho.
To be honest either one of them would be an upgrade on the current deep lying midfield role for us. Even the young Neves.
We haven't had players that can think quicker than the play for years. The last obvious one was Xabi, and of course Gerrard possessed it too, but he was so superior in other areas he never had that calmness Xabi had.
I think both of Jorginho and Neves are capable of dictating the tempo, making the rest of the team move for them. Be happy with either. And yeah, even a 21 year old Neves would help us push for the title in my opinion.
Agree with JM. We don't need a world class midfield maestro to push for the title, just someone who's an upgrade on what we've got now and both Jorginho and Neves fit that bill admirably. Keita is already going to be a major improvement on our current midfield, a midfield that could easily have fought for 2nd in the PL (with a deeper squad) and that has reached the CL semis by comprehensively outplaying a City team filled with 'world class midfielders'.
Keita + Jorginho/Neves + take your pick = a damn strong midfield with many top quality facets. We need 5-6 midfielders next season so Keita/Oxlade/Hendo/Gini/Milner + one/two more (I don't mind if Grujic gets games but he shouldn't be one of those '+two').
Keita + Jorginho/Neves + take your pick = a damn strong midfield with many top quality facets. We need 5-6 midfielders next season so Keita/Oxlade/Hendo/Gini/Milner + one/two more (I don't mind if Grujic gets games but he shouldn't be one of those '+two').
Last edited:
Don't forget the Ox too!
Neves for me.
Where he’ll play left wingback and slowly go backwards. Mourinho dislikes young players unless he’s using them to make point, though, so maybe not.
- Status
