Joe Gomez
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Just done the obligatory youtube check, and gotta say, severely underwhelmed.
As the OP has just said, he'll probably be sold to a mid/lower tier club in years to come.
You have to question our scouting system on this you really do.
As the OP has just said, he'll probably be sold to a mid/lower tier club in years to come.
You have to question our scouting system on this you really do.
We should only risk signing 30mill full backs, nothing less will do. It makes no sense what so ever to take a 3mill punt on a very promising young player that we'll obviously never get our money back on as he's obviously been bought straight for the first team, we should avoid this sort of activity and behave more like Real Madrid.
Promising but considering our shite ability at bringing through promising young signings I won't hold my breadth
[article=http://www.cafc.co.uk/news/article/charlton-joe-gomez-liverpool-championship-premier-league-transfers-2493933.aspx?]“It is with a heavy heart that we let him go, but we wish him all the best,” said Charlton CEO Katrien Meire on Gomez’s switch to the top flight.
“Joe is a very talented and humble young man and he has proven to be a shining light for our academy and a role model for all of the young players at our club.
“He is another fine example of what our fantastic academy is capable of.”
“Joe signed a new three-year contract with us last year and gave us an impressive first season in professional football,” she added.
“But with such huge ambitions, we could not stand in the way of this big opportunity which he wanted to take.
“Joe goes to Liverpool with our blessing and we wish him luck in what will surely be a very successful career.”
Gomez, meanwhile, wished to extend his thanks to the club and the supporters as he embarks on a new challenge in the Premier League.
“I’ve been here since I was 10 years old and it’s been a great experience,” he explained.
“The club have always looked after me and I will always be grateful.
“I’m excited for the new challenge at Liverpool and it’s an opportunity that I’ve only been given thanks to the experience that Charlton have given me.”
“I want to say thank you to everyone, especially the supporters,” continued Gomez.
“From the moment I made my debut in the first team I felt at home and I was able to just focus on playing.
“I’m proud to have come from this academy. People like [Academy Manager] Steve Avory have helped me all the way through and I will always be thankful to Charlton for making me the player I am.
“I will never forget where I came from.”[/article]
“Joe is a very talented and humble young man and he has proven to be a shining light for our academy and a role model for all of the young players at our club.
“He is another fine example of what our fantastic academy is capable of.”
“Joe signed a new three-year contract with us last year and gave us an impressive first season in professional football,” she added.
“But with such huge ambitions, we could not stand in the way of this big opportunity which he wanted to take.
“Joe goes to Liverpool with our blessing and we wish him luck in what will surely be a very successful career.”
Gomez, meanwhile, wished to extend his thanks to the club and the supporters as he embarks on a new challenge in the Premier League.
“I’ve been here since I was 10 years old and it’s been a great experience,” he explained.
“The club have always looked after me and I will always be grateful.
“I’m excited for the new challenge at Liverpool and it’s an opportunity that I’ve only been given thanks to the experience that Charlton have given me.”
“I want to say thank you to everyone, especially the supporters,” continued Gomez.
“From the moment I made my debut in the first team I felt at home and I was able to just focus on playing.
“I’m proud to have come from this academy. People like [Academy Manager] Steve Avory have helped me all the way through and I will always be thankful to Charlton for making me the player I am.
“I will never forget where I came from.”[/article]
So thanks to a Youtube assessment of his abilities, we have to question our scouting system on this?
[article=http://moresport.com/football/liverpool/joe-gomez-why-liverpool-have-committed-daylight-robbery?]Most Liverpool fans won’t have a clue who Joe Gomez really is beyond the conjecture and speculation. As a Charlton fan, I see him as one of the country’s best young defenders worth much more than the mooted £3.5m…
The first time I saw Joe Gomez, I literally couldn’t believe my eyes.
I recognised him from the numerous articles in the Charlton programme and from the wide-eyed youth team reports that obsessives had delivered back to the club forum.
I knew this 17-year-old was our next great hope. But what I couldn’t understand about this huge, hulking figure waiting for a train at London Bridge was how he could be just 17 years old.
Shaking his hand and congratulating him on recently winning the European Championships with the England u-17s, I – 24 years old and well over six foot – somehow felt like the little boy in the shadow of a guy born in 1997.
I’m sure a few Championship attackers went through something similar last season. Having to check with their manager ‘which one’s the kid again?’ – unable to accept the defender giving them such a hiding was just over half their age.
But it’s not just Gomez’s advanced physique that belies his years. In his first (and only) season of first-team football at The Valley the defender slotted in with ease. There were no moments of uncertain jangly knees, nor hands plastered to forehead after a harsh lesson learned. Cool and certain with a smart playing style, it quickly became apparent that having the inexperienced youngster in our back four was no hindrance.
Gomez featured at centre-back and right-back for Charlton, he’s more suited to the former position but featured more prominently in a wide position. He was excellent in both, and his above-par technical ability for a player his age suggests he’d be more than comfortable in midfield.
No wonder Liverpool are interested. He passes all the basic requirements for a young modern defender: Big and strong? Yes to both. Fast? Very. More comfortable picking a pass than punting it into Row Z? You bet.
His first league start came against Derby, at right-back. This was early in the season, against a team who had only just missed out on promotion months before. Charlton won, left-winger Simon Dawkins was hauled off after an hour (his replacement Jonny Russell fared no better) and a low-key but perfectly crafted star was born in South London.
Moving away from home for the first time and joining a club like Liverpool is bound to burden the teenager with challenges he’s never faced before. I don’t like to admit it, but there aren’t many tests left for him at Charlton – he’s passed them all.
Charlton’s coaches were smart enough not to burden a developing player with first team football every week, but Gomez still made enough appearances (21) last season to easily pick up the club’s young player of the year award and to be nominated for the Championship “Apprentice of the Year” award. It’s no small thing that at a club which has recently produced a number of England youth level internationals into the first team (Jordan Cousins, Diego Poyet, Jonjo Shelvey, Carl Jenkinson) Gomez is widely considered to be the best.
The Catford-born, Lewisham-schooled kid progressed through the Charlton academy during one of its most fertile periods. So many trophies have been won at youth level in recent years, so many professional contracts signed, but through it all Gomez has been the crown jewel.
Not long after first playing for the under-18 side when he was 13, Gomez’s name begun to appear in connection with bigger clubs – Arsenal, Chelsea and now Liverpool. Before making his first team debut at 17, Gomez guided the u-18s to back-to-back league titles to add to his England honours.
Yet even after years of speculation, if Gomez is about to trade Charlton for Liverpool now it feels far too soon for Charlton fans who have only have a handful of games to remember. And, if the rumoured £3.5m fee is correct, we’ve not got anywhere near enough in return. But he knows what he’s doing. By all accounts the committed Christian is as smart and a considerate young footballer as you’ll find.
Liverpool fans, I know right now you’re not particularly fussed. I know you’re frustrated with FSG’s buy-young and cheap Moneyball-lite philosophy. An 18-year-old defender from Charlton is hardly going to send a yellow-tied Jim White into spasms on Sky Sports News. But believe me when I say that in this transfer you’re getting one of the very best young defenders in the country. Just like Gomez himself, it could be bigger than you first thought.[/article]
The first time I saw Joe Gomez, I literally couldn’t believe my eyes.
I recognised him from the numerous articles in the Charlton programme and from the wide-eyed youth team reports that obsessives had delivered back to the club forum.
I knew this 17-year-old was our next great hope. But what I couldn’t understand about this huge, hulking figure waiting for a train at London Bridge was how he could be just 17 years old.
Shaking his hand and congratulating him on recently winning the European Championships with the England u-17s, I – 24 years old and well over six foot – somehow felt like the little boy in the shadow of a guy born in 1997.
I’m sure a few Championship attackers went through something similar last season. Having to check with their manager ‘which one’s the kid again?’ – unable to accept the defender giving them such a hiding was just over half their age.
But it’s not just Gomez’s advanced physique that belies his years. In his first (and only) season of first-team football at The Valley the defender slotted in with ease. There were no moments of uncertain jangly knees, nor hands plastered to forehead after a harsh lesson learned. Cool and certain with a smart playing style, it quickly became apparent that having the inexperienced youngster in our back four was no hindrance.
Gomez featured at centre-back and right-back for Charlton, he’s more suited to the former position but featured more prominently in a wide position. He was excellent in both, and his above-par technical ability for a player his age suggests he’d be more than comfortable in midfield.
No wonder Liverpool are interested. He passes all the basic requirements for a young modern defender: Big and strong? Yes to both. Fast? Very. More comfortable picking a pass than punting it into Row Z? You bet.
His first league start came against Derby, at right-back. This was early in the season, against a team who had only just missed out on promotion months before. Charlton won, left-winger Simon Dawkins was hauled off after an hour (his replacement Jonny Russell fared no better) and a low-key but perfectly crafted star was born in South London.
Moving away from home for the first time and joining a club like Liverpool is bound to burden the teenager with challenges he’s never faced before. I don’t like to admit it, but there aren’t many tests left for him at Charlton – he’s passed them all.
Charlton’s coaches were smart enough not to burden a developing player with first team football every week, but Gomez still made enough appearances (21) last season to easily pick up the club’s young player of the year award and to be nominated for the Championship “Apprentice of the Year” award. It’s no small thing that at a club which has recently produced a number of England youth level internationals into the first team (Jordan Cousins, Diego Poyet, Jonjo Shelvey, Carl Jenkinson) Gomez is widely considered to be the best.
The Catford-born, Lewisham-schooled kid progressed through the Charlton academy during one of its most fertile periods. So many trophies have been won at youth level in recent years, so many professional contracts signed, but through it all Gomez has been the crown jewel.
Not long after first playing for the under-18 side when he was 13, Gomez’s name begun to appear in connection with bigger clubs – Arsenal, Chelsea and now Liverpool. Before making his first team debut at 17, Gomez guided the u-18s to back-to-back league titles to add to his England honours.
Yet even after years of speculation, if Gomez is about to trade Charlton for Liverpool now it feels far too soon for Charlton fans who have only have a handful of games to remember. And, if the rumoured £3.5m fee is correct, we’ve not got anywhere near enough in return. But he knows what he’s doing. By all accounts the committed Christian is as smart and a considerate young footballer as you’ll find.
Liverpool fans, I know right now you’re not particularly fussed. I know you’re frustrated with FSG’s buy-young and cheap Moneyball-lite philosophy. An 18-year-old defender from Charlton is hardly going to send a yellow-tied Jim White into spasms on Sky Sports News. But believe me when I say that in this transfer you’re getting one of the very best young defenders in the country. Just like Gomez himself, it could be bigger than you first thought.[/article]
So he's bigger that he thought. Awesome.
Must be fun being you!
Perplexing signing.
We already have two talented young defenders on ours books in Ilori and Wisdom, and we haven't been able to give them even a meaningless cup game in their preferred position.
What's exactly the plan for his development? There isn't a top flight manager in the world who has the guts to put an 18 year old CB in his first team.
He certainly won't play for us at CB any time soon. A loan to a Premier League club is also pointless as no relegation or mid table club will play him at CB either.
The only option is to loan him back to the Championship, and hope he gets regular first team action at CB. Even if he does, two years on, he still wouldn't have had enough top flight experience to be able to challenge for a first team place in a top 4 side.
So what exactly is the point? The best case I can see is a Steve Caulker. Plays well enough on loan for a mid-table club like Swansea to take a punt on him in 2 years.
Unless he's the second coming of Franco Baresi.
We already have two talented young defenders on ours books in Ilori and Wisdom, and we haven't been able to give them even a meaningless cup game in their preferred position.
What's exactly the plan for his development? There isn't a top flight manager in the world who has the guts to put an 18 year old CB in his first team.
He certainly won't play for us at CB any time soon. A loan to a Premier League club is also pointless as no relegation or mid table club will play him at CB either.
The only option is to loan him back to the Championship, and hope he gets regular first team action at CB. Even if he does, two years on, he still wouldn't have had enough top flight experience to be able to challenge for a first team place in a top 4 side.
So what exactly is the point? The best case I can see is a Steve Caulker. Plays well enough on loan for a mid-table club like Swansea to take a punt on him in 2 years.
Unless he's the second coming of Franco Baresi.
You could argue that at 18, he's got plenty of time to get in the side. Skrtel is 31, Lovren to me looks like a non-starter (I don't see him lasting), Sakho is ok, Toure is finished. So that pretty much leaves us with one longterm centre back.
Personally I think Ilori could make it, he's got a lot of quality, Wisdom I'm less sure about, he's not a right back to me, and he's only really played at a lower standard without being amazing at that level, just a decent player nothing more. Even if he does make it, looking at the bigger picture, it doesn't leave us over stocked.
Strange that so many are questioning the wisdom of this. He's considered the best young centre half in England. The last similar signing anyone made was Jon Stones, who's proved to be exceptionally good value for Everton.
It's an investment with a very high up side and a very low down side. Such investments are good, and not bad.
He won't be blocking anybody's path, realistically. Wisdom at the moment is, for whatever reasons, someone who's failed to continue his development and is currently no more than a 10% bet to go on and become a first choice CB for us. Lloyd Jones is not in the same class. Ilori could be but is very injury prone and has struggled to progress in the last 2 years.
It's a very sensible signing.
It's an investment with a very high up side and a very low down side. Such investments are good, and not bad.
He won't be blocking anybody's path, realistically. Wisdom at the moment is, for whatever reasons, someone who's failed to continue his development and is currently no more than a 10% bet to go on and become a first choice CB for us. Lloyd Jones is not in the same class. Ilori could be but is very injury prone and has struggled to progress in the last 2 years.
It's a very sensible signing.
I fail to understand the negativity here.
It's £3.5m. We are Liverpool FC. It won't make a difference to our ability to strengthen the first team where its needed next season. But he might go on to be a star in a position where we have not exactly been dominant in recent years. If it doesn't work out we won't have lost much if anything.
Bringing in young English talent has been one of our few success stories with Sterling, Ibe & Shelvey all worth way more than they cost.
We should be trying to bring him through in the same way that Everton have done with John Stones, a few games at right back and the odd start at centre back in the Cups and see if he can develop enough to make a position his own.
Give the club and the scouts a break for once.
It's £3.5m. We are Liverpool FC. It won't make a difference to our ability to strengthen the first team where its needed next season. But he might go on to be a star in a position where we have not exactly been dominant in recent years. If it doesn't work out we won't have lost much if anything.
Bringing in young English talent has been one of our few success stories with Sterling, Ibe & Shelvey all worth way more than they cost.
We should be trying to bring him through in the same way that Everton have done with John Stones, a few games at right back and the odd start at centre back in the Cups and see if he can develop enough to make a position his own.
Give the club and the scouts a break for once.
If he was an attacker people would have a different view. We spent years bemoaning the fact that Arsenal were signing the likes of Walcott, we're getting pretty decent at adding good players from an early age and reaping the rewards, either in bringing players through to the first team, or selling on.
£3.5m is two Peter Beardsleys
That reminds me of Arsenal's signing of Carl Jenkinson when Charlton were still in League 1. Admittedly he only cost £1 million but he was even barely playing 1st team football then.
Lloyd Jones and Andre Wisdom were signed for compensation fees from Plymouth and Bradford respectively when they were below 17 years old.
I guess the lack of enthusiasm stems from the previous 'false dawn' signings of Gabriel Paletta, Jack Hobbs, Danny Wilson, Sebastian Coates (or even Tiago Ilori, to an extent) etc.
I think the reason why some posters, including myself, are perplexed at this signing is that center halfs often take until they are 23-26 to reach a level where they are good enough to play for a team with top 4 aspirations. Of course there will be exceptions. And once they become good, they are reasonably cheap compared to attackers of the same quality (David Luiz was an exception). We should be able to pick up decent center halfs for 10-20 million.
Secondly center halfs more than others need high quality guidance and game time. We seem to be buying young promising center halfs with the only plan being sending them out on loan and hope they develop. We already have llori, LLoyd George, Wisdom who all came with similar reputation. Our strategy appears to be cast the net wide and hope that one of them hits the mark. If we are focusing on youth and spending 3 million plus, I would spend the money on attacking talents as they are more easily integrable into the first team and are often out of our price range if they hit the required level.
Secondly center halfs more than others need high quality guidance and game time. We seem to be buying young promising center halfs with the only plan being sending them out on loan and hope they develop. We already have llori, LLoyd George, Wisdom who all came with similar reputation. Our strategy appears to be cast the net wide and hope that one of them hits the mark. If we are focusing on youth and spending 3 million plus, I would spend the money on attacking talents as they are more easily integrable into the first team and are often out of our price range if they hit the required level.
I can see that the challenge of developing them is more complicated than with young attackers, so to that extent there have to be reservations. But then the fee is at most half of what you'd be expected to pay for an equivalent attacker.
I don't agree that it represents part of a scattergun, unfocused approach. Gomez is not comparable to players like Jones or Wisdom in terms of his status at the time of signing. I think both of those players were under 16 a the time (I've a feeling Wisdom was 14). Gomez is 18, considered England's best young defender, and has already successfully played half a season at Championship level. He's at least 10 times more likely to succeed than either of those at the time of signing.
He is comparable to the signings of Coates and Ilori, but why that's a bad thing I'm not sure. Those players haven't struggled because of the category of signing to which they belong. Coates has simply looked unsuited to a top level PL team, in terms of style as much as anything. That's more a matter of poor scouting than a mistaken approach. Ilori on the other hand is promising but has had very bad fitness problems.
I don't agree that it represents part of a scattergun, unfocused approach. Gomez is not comparable to players like Jones or Wisdom in terms of his status at the time of signing. I think both of those players were under 16 a the time (I've a feeling Wisdom was 14). Gomez is 18, considered England's best young defender, and has already successfully played half a season at Championship level. He's at least 10 times more likely to succeed than either of those at the time of signing.
He is comparable to the signings of Coates and Ilori, but why that's a bad thing I'm not sure. Those players haven't struggled because of the category of signing to which they belong. Coates has simply looked unsuited to a top level PL team, in terms of style as much as anything. That's more a matter of poor scouting than a mistaken approach. Ilori on the other hand is promising but has had very bad fitness problems.
Or three Gerry Francissses.
Anyone know what the plural of Francis is?
That's inflation for you.
A Mullet of Francis. Obviously.
You summarized my issues succintly in that one line 🙂
Wasn't Wisdom, Jack Hobbs, all considered "future England captain" at one point? We also had Mikki Roque who was begining to make his breakthrough for Real Betis before he tragically lost his life. San Jose was released from here and almost five years later is a regular for Bilbao. Point is however promising they are it takes a lot of time for us to see the return of investment on young central defenders. Given that we have severe financial constraints and there is a lot of things to fix in the squad, is it prudent now to invest on a young defender prospect who will most likely play at a required level for us much into the future.
I'm guessing he meant when he spends significantly on someone, Glen. I doubt that's got any bearing on the Bogdan or Gomez signings. Milner will slot straight into the first team, he's a good player and he's versatile, Ings is young and will provide competition and cover in an area where we were struggling for depth last year. It's early days in the transfer window and we've spent little.
I don't accept that we have severe financial constraints.
Even if we did, I really do hope the club would still be able to distribute purchases across various categories, which could be funded as appropriate. As such, I'd be surprised if the money spent on Gomez had any real effect on the money available for a more expensive and risky signing. The club won't have a, say, £30m hard budget to spend on players of all kinds. There'll be a certain annual surplus to be spent on playing assets, together with a borrowing facility, and deals will be considered on an individual basis in that light.
They'll look at Gomez and see a worst-case downside of a £3m loss, and a best-case upside of something like a £40m profit (in terms of annual equivalent expense of something in the order of £4m a season over a 10 year effective career), and conclude that as an investment it's a total no-brainer.
As to your other point: Wisdom was once very highly rated but at a younger age - I think he's been mishandled personally by being played at RB. I'd point out though that as an investment his signing has to be considered a success, even so. The other players simply aren't in the same category of talent.
Better examples of talent level are Sterling, Ibe, and Ojo. Granted, they're not defenders, but again I think that difference is adequately reflected in the low fee for Gomez.
Firstly, English players who are best in class don't normally come this cheap. Why are we getting him for 3.5M?
I find myself leaning more towards the Peekay side of the argument. I can see a lot of merit in signing a hugely talented youngster but there has to be clear plan in place for that player otherwise it's just money and talent down the drain and I hate to see both.
It's fair enough to say that Gomez is potentially a cut above previous players, however who is he getting into the side ahead of? That's the problem. We've got four senior centre-backs. Who is he getting a game ahead of?
If he goes out on loan, great. If he hangs about in the stands playing a game for the reserves here and there then it's a waste of everyone's time.
I find myself leaning more towards the Peekay side of the argument. I can see a lot of merit in signing a hugely talented youngster but there has to be clear plan in place for that player otherwise it's just money and talent down the drain and I hate to see both.
It's fair enough to say that Gomez is potentially a cut above previous players, however who is he getting into the side ahead of? That's the problem. We've got four senior centre-backs. Who is he getting a game ahead of?
If he goes out on loan, great. If he hangs about in the stands playing a game for the reserves here and there then it's a waste of everyone's time.
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