Is this the reason behind the lack of 'bargain' signings?
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Rodgers also tried to sign Ben Davies who just got raped all over Anfield. Surprising he didn't mention that...It would seem more relevant.
Except that Davies has been a good player over the last few years, he got no protection at Anfield. But I'm sure one game is symptomatic of his entire career.
Because we aren't in Europe and don't regularly challenge for titles.
Because we don't have a good enough team or squad.
And one of the reasons for that is that FSG don't think they have to invest hundreds of millions into the playing squad, in terms of transfer fees and wages. And they aren't able to. That's not ALL their fault, as they do not have the almost bottomless reserves of cash that the Arabs have, or the Russian crook. And their reasons for investing are very different to the aforementioned.
They think they can be successful without huge investment, but their definition of successful isn't the same as mine. And they're not as clever as they think they are.
Man City had £125m worth of talent on their bench last night. That's why they win titles and compete every season for trophies. It's not Guardiola, or their infrastructure, or their fucking "project"
It's a billion pounds spent.
Not to mention hes better than Moreno.
I'm coming around to their point of view as capitalism and age have eroded my once great mind. Money is a commodity, and if you spend it upon players who will in turn spend it upon cars and haircuts, then that money has been squandered. It's eroded the wealth of the world by being pissed down a drain. It's better to spend money upon things which will grow their wealth and generate a return. Not us in other words. Football clubs should be made to operate as a business and not as an expensive luxury for someone to waste their wealth upon, because it harms the world when you do that.
I think this attitude of waiting until someone is 'proven' in the Premier League is the reason we make so many bad expensive transfers.
Usually by the time they're proven they've already peaked and won't get any better with us. Keane and Downing being two great examples.
Is it? I'm happy to be shown the error in my thinking.
So we can sign a bunch of players each for 40M plus and 200k a week or whatever it will take to get them to come?
You could argue that "proven" is a rather vague, subjective term anyway, but for the many bad, expensive Premier League signings we have made (The usual suspects, Carroll, Downing, Benteke, Allen, Keane etc) there's a Clyne, Mane, Hamann, Henchoz, Milner and Sturridge.
Although admittedly only Mane was really "expensive"
And most of "worst ever" signings weren't really "Premiership proven": Aquilani, Balotelli (maybe), Morientes, Diouf, Diao.
I don't think there's an obvious rule, we are just poor at transfers
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Although I certainly think we should be more keen to take "risks" on players like Delle Alli, Van Dijk, Kante et al, before they cost £30m or won't consider joining us.
At least then the risk is mitigated by the smaller fee.
But we also need to make "big" signings when the opportunity arises, and if that means paying £32m to Southampton for Mane, then so be it.
You can't build a title-winning side on the cheap.
At least then the risk is mitigated by the smaller fee.
But we also need to make "big" signings when the opportunity arises, and if that means paying £32m to Southampton for Mane, then so be it.
You can't build a title-winning side on the cheap.
Klopp could have signed Alex Texieira for 38 mill £, so the money is there for those type of signings.
We can probably spend quite a bit of money this summer if Klopp wants to, and given that we have a negative net spend this season we'll be in good shape for FFP I reckon.
Except for Aquilani, they were cheap, though. Looking at that list, I think it's fair to we have got stung more than not by buying expensive Premier-league proved players but it could be we have little idea of value so your general point that we're generally just poor at transfers is well-made.
Is that still applicable?
Wasn't there claims too that we rejected the chance to sign Mane when he was at Red Bull Salzburg?
http://www.sport1.de/internationale...ueber-die-transferstrategie-von-juergen-klopp
And also turning down Andre Ayew on a free transfer (+6 mths without wages).
Our standard/criteria for scouting is definitely a concern. This was probably evident when we seemingly failed to identify targets as reinforcements despite not having to worry about factors such as lack in squad depth and no concern for being cup-tied for European competition etc.
In a way, being linked with O.Dembele, Mor, Guerreiro, Zielinski and Parades was encouraging as they weren't exactly big names or established players (before their move anyway). Let's see what improvement Michael Edwards can bring in his new capacity.
http://www.sport1.de/internationale...ueber-die-transferstrategie-von-juergen-klopp
And also turning down Andre Ayew on a free transfer (+6 mths without wages).
Our standard/criteria for scouting is definitely a concern. This was probably evident when we seemingly failed to identify targets as reinforcements despite not having to worry about factors such as lack in squad depth and no concern for being cup-tied for European competition etc.
In a way, being linked with O.Dembele, Mor, Guerreiro, Zielinski and Parades was encouraging as they weren't exactly big names or established players (before their move anyway). Let's see what improvement Michael Edwards can bring in his new capacity.
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I think it's time to upgrade our 'scouting software' whatever the bollocks that is..
I don't think we can rely too much on scouting software, or even scouts.
Human error and misjudgement is always going to be a factor.
I mean, for fuck's sake, it's seems easy enough for us lot to say "we should have bought him/ should buy him/ shouldn't buy him" but there's players AT THE CLUB, who the management and training staff see every fucking day, that shouldn't be playing for Liverpool.
And yet are. Still.
So I wouldn't hold out too much hope for Michael Edwards fixing everything. Klopp thought we didn't need any more players in the last two transfer windows, or that what we had was unimproveable by what was available.
Human error and misjudgement is always going to be a factor.
I mean, for fuck's sake, it's seems easy enough for us lot to say "we should have bought him/ should buy him/ shouldn't buy him" but there's players AT THE CLUB, who the management and training staff see every fucking day, that shouldn't be playing for Liverpool.
And yet are. Still.
So I wouldn't hold out too much hope for Michael Edwards fixing everything. Klopp thought we didn't need any more players in the last two transfer windows, or that what we had was unimproveable by what was available.
The David Moores era saw us fail to capitalise, commercially, on our overwhelming success and I've always blamed the Moores era for all the barren years that followed. I fear the FSG era will be defined as the time we failed to spend really big bucks building the team. Like it or loath it, this is a game being played on and off the field.. How you want to win is a valid argument, but if you want to compete with any longevity, at the highest levels of the modern game, you have to pay up. It's all very honourable to build from lower divisions and through youth but right now we seem to need a brand new spine running through our first team and I think we should break the bank - no bargain signings, just pay up for whomever the boss wants.
Personally i think we are more or less aware of pretty much all of the real talent out there, what we do not seem to master is to 1) meet asking prices or 2) actually be able to convince these players to join us instead of team A, B or C that's obviously also been alerted to their blatant talents. Sometimes I get the feeling we are resting of the laurels of old still.. we are just not that superpower anymore so we need to fight tooth and nail over these much coveted young potential stars.
I get it there can be other viable reasons for not taking a bet on a highly sought after youngster but not every freakin' time which seems to be the case when it comes to us.
Take Emre Mor as @King Binny mentioned, we were mentioned as front runners during most of the Summer and then, ta-daa, he ended up in Dortmund instead. Everyone with eyes could see that what he did on the pitch at his age was, at the very least, totally promising. So what happened?
Maybe it's when the personal interaction with the players begin we lose out, maybe we piss their agents off (I kinda wouldn't mind that but still could be a factor..) or maybe we simply don't seem that interested/professional/bothered.
So until the day we actually start to buy some young players where someone on here (myself included) will dance a jig on a table out of pure joy and expectation, I will fear more mediocrity and quietly hope for an unexpected 'home run'.. (as even a blind chicken finds a kernel of corn now and then).
I get it there can be other viable reasons for not taking a bet on a highly sought after youngster but not every freakin' time which seems to be the case when it comes to us.
Take Emre Mor as @King Binny mentioned, we were mentioned as front runners during most of the Summer and then, ta-daa, he ended up in Dortmund instead. Everyone with eyes could see that what he did on the pitch at his age was, at the very least, totally promising. So what happened?
Maybe it's when the personal interaction with the players begin we lose out, maybe we piss their agents off (I kinda wouldn't mind that but still could be a factor..) or maybe we simply don't seem that interested/professional/bothered.
So until the day we actually start to buy some young players where someone on here (myself included) will dance a jig on a table out of pure joy and expectation, I will fear more mediocrity and quietly hope for an unexpected 'home run'.. (as even a blind chicken finds a kernel of corn now and then).
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We have Fifa 17 now
Yeah, but that doesn't mean we have to play as Southampton every time
Talking of bargains, I wonder if Arsenal are relieved that Vardy stayed loyal to Leicester and their £20m bid failed?
He's had a wretched season so far, just like Vahrez. And also most of the rest of the team, in fairness.
He's had a wretched season so far, just like Vahrez. And also most of the rest of the team, in fairness.
You mean 'synonymous'?
This. Our shite players come from all countries and races. We managed to buy shite from Ligue 1 when they were generating stars left right and center (Cisse, Diouf, Cheyrou), La Liga when they were dominating everything in the international scene (Morientes, Josemi, Moreno), Eastern Europe via Portugal ( Markovic), Serie A, South American Leagues, and now we have managed to buy a Bundesliga goalkeeper who cannot catch or save when Germany is spitting out goalkeepers left, right, and center. We are a cultural melting pot.
I trust SCM posters player reports more than our scouts, transfer committee who are being paid millions.
That doesn't mean much when we have four competitors in the league who are in the top 6 richest clubs. Also the new premier league deal means that most of the clubs in the PL are in that list. Isn't Everton and West Ham in the top 20 richest club list?
Also if he had more money, we would have more likely wasted them on more shit players. I don't blame FSG for not spending more money. But I do blame them for not doing anything to stop the conveyor belt of shit players who land at Anfield every window.
Our transfer windows are getting defined by whom we managed to get off the wage bill. That is not because if some ace negotiations by FSG also. It is because most clubs around us have more money than sense and buy our shit.
We've been shite at transfers because we have had a committee structure in place, with each member having their own agenda, preferences or interests at stake.
It meant we had no adhesive policy in place and ended up with players the manager didn't want and refused to play. It was madness, and further proof the americans overestimated their ability to intellectualise the sport. If transfers are going to improve we need better scouts who can take their eyes of FM 2017 data, we need Klopp to have the final say on targets, not signings, and finally we need the know-how to get that player in a room with Klopp so he can sell the 'vision' or whatever bollocks you want to call it. Klopp shouldn't have to deal with the shite Rodgers had to.
I've often thought the manager is wasted at pre-season matches/tours and whatever else. I'd much rather have him working on the transfer policy rather than watching walking football against Bimbong FC. Leave it to the bloody assistants. As we've seen over the last 20 years, transfers are too important to keep getting so routinely wrong. It's the most important aspect of football.
It meant we had no adhesive policy in place and ended up with players the manager didn't want and refused to play. It was madness, and further proof the americans overestimated their ability to intellectualise the sport. If transfers are going to improve we need better scouts who can take their eyes of FM 2017 data, we need Klopp to have the final say on targets, not signings, and finally we need the know-how to get that player in a room with Klopp so he can sell the 'vision' or whatever bollocks you want to call it. Klopp shouldn't have to deal with the shite Rodgers had to.
I've often thought the manager is wasted at pre-season matches/tours and whatever else. I'd much rather have him working on the transfer policy rather than watching walking football against Bimbong FC. Leave it to the bloody assistants. As we've seen over the last 20 years, transfers are too important to keep getting so routinely wrong. It's the most important aspect of football.
I'm not Keanes biggest fan but his failure is all on Rafa.
In fairness all the top teams sign shite players. It's just that because we spend, comparatively, so little our shite players are more obvious than others are.
Every team signs shite players. There are some that are better or worse at it, and this is partly due to luck and partly due to superior scouting and acquisition.
We all point at the marvellous signings that Southampton make, and their yearly clear-out of top players for huge amounts (most of them to Liverpool seemingly) - despite some cunts trotting out that "Southampton Don't Need To Sell" every fucking summer - suggests they do indeed have a fine scouting system, but even they make mistakes:
Gaston Ramirez, Dani Osvaldo, Veggard Forren, Sofiane Boufal.
And just how did Leicester find Kante, Mahrez and Vardy?! The same way they found Zoumana Bakayogo, Ryan Watson, Bruno N'Gotty, Jermaine Beckford and Marko Futacs.
We only notice the obvious successes and the very high-profile mistakes. Most of the players clubs like Leicester sign are failures.
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