Is Football Racist?

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Anyone watching this programme on BBC1?

 

[FoxForceFive]

Nope.

How many times has Suarez been mentioned?!

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Ha. It was like "Is Liverpool Football Club Racist?" for the first 10 minutes.

 

[moron]

I think its the same programme that I saw a while a go that you are referring to with the guy from the players union going to different places - if it is then I think its highlighting some key things within the football world and specifically this country. The overt racism has in the main been taken out of the game in this country but you still get the feeling that its been silenced rather than a cultural revolution that has made all the hardcore fans very loving. I think John Barnes in the programme raised some good issues that are overlooked about how people think about black people as potential managers, and also the comedian woman who was talking about how commentators will refer to a bad mistake made by African teams as naive - like they just come out of the jungle or something. My experience is that you hear it from them even in the domestic league - where a good piece of work done by a black player is referred to as great 'skill' - but if he was white you would get people also saying how intelligent he is which is never used to describe something good on the pitch done by black players. These perceptions do exist, but in the case of Suarez I thought it did not look into the issue a little deeper because clearly the issue there was a cultural one and the fact that Evra in his statement did not think he was racist was never mentioned.

I found it heart-breaking when the guy was talking to his father and he was telling him about the racism he experienced when he started playing football, and the fact that he never made it to proffesional level. But what shocked me more was when he visited Luton and met up with some Asian team coach and the players who told him that the Scouts sent to observe young talent from big teams were told not to look into Asians. If you think about it - its quite strange that you don't get any players in this country who's origins are from Bangladesh, Pakistan or India given that particular immigrant population is quite large in Britain as a whole.

 

[Markeh]

I only caught a bit of it, where the guy was talking to a couple of asian lads that couldn't get picked up by proper clubs despite representing county sides etc. He asked one why and he said "racism".

Is that right? Would anyone seriously turn down an asian guy because he's asian? I just assumed it's a combination of culture and makeup of the population but gradually it will change. I can't really think of many players of Pakistani/Indian/Bangladeshi descent in any European league, surely the whole continent isn't racist?

Is there some stereotype I'm not aware of that discourages their selection by clubs?

 

[moron]

I only caught a bit of it, where the guy was talking to a couple of asian lads that couldn't get picked up by proper clubs despite representing county sides etc. He asked one why and he said "racism".

Is that right? Would anyone seriously turn down an asian guy because he's asian? I just assumed it's a combination of culture and makeup of the population but gradually it will change. I can't really think of many players of Pakistani/Indian/Bangladeshi descent in any European league, surely the whole continent isn't racist?

Is there some stereotype I'm not aware of that discourages their selection by clubs?

The issue is that the rest of Europe does not have that same Asian group in the same numbers as Britain does, so I would not expect such players to be represented in Europe. I agree there could be cultural issues - in that the same Asian group would not culturally find the behaviour of palyers on the pitch as a comfortable environment - I mean its much abusive and rougher than say Cricket isn't it ?. However, from the show - what got to me was that they said the actual Scout had said that he was instructed NOT to select/look into any Asian players.

 

[Markeh]

The issue is that the rest of Europe does not have that same Asian group in the same numbers as Britain does, so I would not expect such players to be represented in Europe. I agree there could be cultural issues - in that the same Asian group would not culturally find the behaviour of palyers on the pitch as a comfortable environment - I mean its much abusive and rougher than say Cricket isn't it ?. However, from the show - what got to me was that they said the actual Scout had said that he was instructed NOT to select/look into any Asian players.

If a scout actually said that then it's ridiculous, aside from the obvious racism he's also prevented from doing his job properly it doesn't make sense. But maybe the cultural things you mentioned have caused this attitude, in the past some asian players may have had problems settling or integrating which has caused them to be overlooked and now they're all sorta tarred with the hassle / not worth the effort brush.

The maths go a long way towards explaining things too, If south asians make up 3.9% of the population of england and there are 4000 members of the pfa then there should be around 150 playing football professionally. That 4000 probably includes foreign imports too? across the leagues thats quite a small number before considering the strong pull of cricket/hockey/other sports.

 

[moron]

Markeh - I think your "hassle / not worth the effort" could be the reason. However, another interesting point you raise is that those three Asian countries I mentioned - love watching football but the leagues in the those countries are very very very poor - all three nations are ranked below 100 in the FIFA rankings the last time I looked. That of course could be down to coaching and no established proffesional football setup like of which was setup in South America 100 or more years ago. But football is followed by the same population in England quite heavily and played regularly in parks across the country within local Asian leagues that do exist.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Markeh - I think your "hassle / not worth the effort" could be the reason. However, another interesting point you raise is that those three Asian countries I mentioned - love watching football but the leagues in the those countries are very very very poor - all three nations are ranked below 100 in the FIFA rankings the last time I looked. That of course could be down to coaching and no established proffesional football setup like of which was setup in South America 100 or more years ago. But football is followed by the same population in England quite heavily and played regularly in parks across the country within local Asian leagues that do exist.

Lemme guess. Asians created the local Asian leagues?

 

[Frogfish]

..... and also the comedian woman who was talking about how commentators will refer to a bad mistake made by African teams as naive - like they just come out of the jungle or something. My experience is that you hear it from them even in the domestic league - where a good piece of work done by a black player is referred to as great 'skill' - but if he was white you would get people also saying how intelligent he is which is never used to describe something good on the pitch done by black players.

I'm sorry but this is just bollocks, and I'll tell you why (and please note that I have lived all over the place, including 5 years in Africa and nearly 20 years in Asia), very often it is that countries such as the USA and the UK are so used to 'racism' being thrown down their gullets by an inciting media that almost any phrase or comment takes on an unintended nuance, it is a perversion of the English language that reeks of American extremism. Living in those countries I have never experienced the sensitiveness to certain words that people in the UK fall over themselves to condemn - because in normal use they simply don't have that connotation.

Why on earth should the word 'naive', if associated with an African team, be constituted as a racist term. It's idiotic and perverse. The word equally applies to any team or tactics that don't have the sophistication of the world's top teams.

 

[rubans]

Was watching the Footballers Football Show on skysports 1 at the same time, Clark Clarlisle was on it and was saying something similar about some of the thing asians players experienced in dressing rooms. Didn't really catch most of it since I caught it quiet late...

 

[Spionkop69]

I'm sorry but this is just bollocks, and I'll tell you why (and please note that I have lived all over the place, including 5 years in Africa and nearly 20 years in Asia), very often it is that countries such as the USA and the UK are so used to 'racism' being thrown down their gullets by an inciting media that almost any phrase or comment takes on an unintended nuance, it is a perversion of the English language that reeks of American extremism. Living in those countries I have never experienced the sensitiveness to certain words that people in the UK fall over themselves to condemn - because in normal use they simply don't have that connotation.

Why on earth should the word 'naive', if associated with an African team, be constituted as a racist term. It's idiotic and perverse. The word equally applies to any team or tactics that don't have the sophistication of the world's top teams.

Bing! Some people are just looking to find racism or discrimination at every step.

 

[rubans]

I have sometimes seen journalists on football summary shows comment on something a black players has done and heard some of the words used such as "no-brains" or "beastly" and wondered if there is an element to it myself, it's just so hard to say. My mate who was white, used to tell me Greaves was racist when he used to watch Saint and Greaves show when it was on, I used to watch the same show and never noticed it at the time. It's quiet hard to proove these things but I do these there is an element overt racism sometimes and is not clear cut...