If we got 40 million (STG) for Mascher and brought in Martinez for 20...
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Squiggles
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About 1% of this board have seen Martiez play regularly (correct me if I'm wrong), so I suspect the mood would be very anxious about his arrival, but getting £40M for Masher would be an excellent and unparalleled bit of business.
My only recommendation would have been Barry but that ships long since sailed. Nobody else jumps out.
My only recommendation would have been Barry but that ships long since sailed. Nobody else jumps out.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=34357.msg894112#msg894112 date=1245843223]
About 1% of this board have seen Martiez play regularly (correct me if I'm wrong), so I suspect the mood would be very anxious about his arrival, but getting £40M for Masher would be an excellent and unparalleled bit of business.
[/quote]
It certainly would be for Liverpool which is kinda sad. I'd rather he stayed and love the little bastard when he gets stuck in but I think there's question marks over other aspects of his game. His passing can be wayward at times and if he was to go and we brought in someone like martinez or defour who can break up play and pass better then I dont think it would be the end of the world if he left.
About 1% of this board have seen Martiez play regularly (correct me if I'm wrong), so I suspect the mood would be very anxious about his arrival, but getting £40M for Masher would be an excellent and unparalleled bit of business.
[/quote]
It certainly would be for Liverpool which is kinda sad. I'd rather he stayed and love the little bastard when he gets stuck in but I think there's question marks over other aspects of his game. His passing can be wayward at times and if he was to go and we brought in someone like martinez or defour who can break up play and pass better then I dont think it would be the end of the world if he left.
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Squiggles
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I largely agree - apart from the slight dig at our selling policy
Nobody has ever got close £40M for a defensive midfielder and I don't think we will either.
Nobody has ever got close £40M for a defensive midfielder and I don't think we will either.
I've never seen Martinez play but how can he possibly be worth £20mil?
[quote author=tombrown link=topic=34357.msg894108#msg894108 date=1245843012]
If the queen had balls would she be the king?
[/quote]
no, but would she be the daddy?
If the queen had balls would she be the king?
[/quote]
no, but would she be the daddy?
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=34357.msg894120#msg894120 date=1245843831]
I've never seen Martinez play but how can he possibly be worth £20mil?
[/quote]
I think even SaintGeorge who has been on about him for a long time on here would agree that a 20M valulation is absurd.
I'd be mortified if we paid that much for him, but then, money has kinda lost it's meaning in this transfer window...
I've never seen Martinez play but how can he possibly be worth £20mil?
[/quote]
I think even SaintGeorge who has been on about him for a long time on here would agree that a 20M valulation is absurd.
I'd be mortified if we paid that much for him, but then, money has kinda lost it's meaning in this transfer window...
[quote author=Cerberus link=topic=34357.msg894116#msg894116 date=1245843554]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=34357.msg894112#msg894112 date=1245843223]
About 1% of this board have seen Martiez play regularly (correct me if I'm wrong), so I suspect the mood would be very anxious about his arrival, but getting £40M for Masher would be an excellent and unparalleled bit of business.
[/quote]
It certainly would be for Liverpool which is kinda sad. I'd rather he stayed and love the little bastard when he gets stuck in but I think there's question marks over other aspects of his game. His passing can be wayward at times and if he was to go and we brought in someone like martinez or defour who can break up play and pass better then I dont think it would be the end of the world if he left.
[/quote]
Disagree with both of you. Breaking up the play is exactly the job for which Rafa bought Mascher in the first place, because there is no-one, as in NO-ONE better at it than he anywhere in world football. Sell Mascher and the whole pattern will have to be rejigged, because all the players around him will have to take on more defensive duties to compensate for losing El Jefecito, whoever we fetch in to "replace" him. That's why Rafa's said what he's said about Barca being unable to afford Mascher's value to us, and IMO he's spot on.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=34357.msg894112#msg894112 date=1245843223]
About 1% of this board have seen Martiez play regularly (correct me if I'm wrong), so I suspect the mood would be very anxious about his arrival, but getting £40M for Masher would be an excellent and unparalleled bit of business.
[/quote]
It certainly would be for Liverpool which is kinda sad. I'd rather he stayed and love the little bastard when he gets stuck in but I think there's question marks over other aspects of his game. His passing can be wayward at times and if he was to go and we brought in someone like martinez or defour who can break up play and pass better then I dont think it would be the end of the world if he left.
[/quote]
Disagree with both of you. Breaking up the play is exactly the job for which Rafa bought Mascher in the first place, because there is no-one, as in NO-ONE better at it than he anywhere in world football. Sell Mascher and the whole pattern will have to be rejigged, because all the players around him will have to take on more defensive duties to compensate for losing El Jefecito, whoever we fetch in to "replace" him. That's why Rafa's said what he's said about Barca being unable to afford Mascher's value to us, and IMO he's spot on.
Agreed.
Cerberus, my answer to your perfectly fair question would be no. It's true that Mascher's passing isn't on the same level as his ball-winning (though it improved noticeably in the latter part of last season, when the whole team was flying) but all he usually has to do is give it to those around him who really can pass it. Take him out of the mix and those players will have less time and opportunity to do their thing because they're bound to have to win it back more than they do now, with Mascher back there taking care of business. The Arse have tried to play along the lines your question suggests, and have done it really well at times, but ultimately it hasn't lasted.
Cerberus, my answer to your perfectly fair question would be no. It's true that Mascher's passing isn't on the same level as his ball-winning (though it improved noticeably in the latter part of last season, when the whole team was flying) but all he usually has to do is give it to those around him who really can pass it. Take him out of the mix and those players will have less time and opportunity to do their thing because they're bound to have to win it back more than they do now, with Mascher back there taking care of business. The Arse have tried to play along the lines your question suggests, and have done it really well at times, but ultimately it hasn't lasted.
[quote author=Cerberus link=topic=34357.msg894134#msg894134 date=1245844958]
Its just a thought but if we had two players in midfield (xabi and someone else) behind gerrard who kept the ball better through better passing would we need an el jeficito?
[/quote]
When Arsenal lost their ball winning midfielder they went to the dogs, and they have two excellent passers in midfield.
Its just a thought but if we had two players in midfield (xabi and someone else) behind gerrard who kept the ball better through better passing would we need an el jeficito?
[/quote]
When Arsenal lost their ball winning midfielder they went to the dogs, and they have two excellent passers in midfield.
S
Squiggles
Guest
Excellent though he is, it's pretty clear Mascherano just isn't worth £40M
I'm not advocating selling him, but if he did leave that's a very good sum of money and I'd be confident we could remain equally strong.
£25-30M is a fair market price.
I'm not advocating selling him, but if he did leave that's a very good sum of money and I'd be confident we could remain equally strong.
£25-30M is a fair market price.
The scum have done a pretty good job of it too. They don't have a specific "ball winner" in the team and the cunts have managed to win three titles back to back. Don't get me wrong I don't think we should be selling our best players either and having Mascherano in the heart of our midfield for years to come as part of a multi-title winning team would be brilliant because I admire him as a player. I just feel that if his heart is not truly in Liverpool FC and we get offered silly money then I wouldn't be overly upset to see him go.
The question here, is do we want to make money or do we want to win titles?
Next year is probably our best opportunity to win the title in decades. With the momentum we got from last year, and with one more attacking addition, we'll be in a position to really step up and win our first title under Rafa. The fact that United have sold their best player, Chelsea are under new management and Arsenal are still fiddling around with young players, can only add to the growing belief that next year could indeed be our year.
However, we could sell Masher for 40m. Great for a defensive midfielder, right? Buy Martinez for 20m.. and spend a year or two changing our style and easing him into a more a expansive, attacking system.. oh and in those 2 years, whilst we're counting the cash and rebuilding, we'll give United (especially) 2 years to get themselves sorted out and re-organised.
In the mean time, Gerrard will be 2 years older, Carra 2 years older.. and Alonso, who knows, he may leave the following summer.
As I said at the beginning, the question is do we want to make money or win titles?
If we had won the last 3 titles, then sure, 40m sounds great. We can take a season or so off. But with our rivals in transition periods themselves, this coming season will be make or break for Rafa's Liverpool. Selling Mascherano could set us back a year or two (maybe more).
Next year is probably our best opportunity to win the title in decades. With the momentum we got from last year, and with one more attacking addition, we'll be in a position to really step up and win our first title under Rafa. The fact that United have sold their best player, Chelsea are under new management and Arsenal are still fiddling around with young players, can only add to the growing belief that next year could indeed be our year.
However, we could sell Masher for 40m. Great for a defensive midfielder, right? Buy Martinez for 20m.. and spend a year or two changing our style and easing him into a more a expansive, attacking system.. oh and in those 2 years, whilst we're counting the cash and rebuilding, we'll give United (especially) 2 years to get themselves sorted out and re-organised.
In the mean time, Gerrard will be 2 years older, Carra 2 years older.. and Alonso, who knows, he may leave the following summer.
As I said at the beginning, the question is do we want to make money or win titles?
If we had won the last 3 titles, then sure, 40m sounds great. We can take a season or so off. But with our rivals in transition periods themselves, this coming season will be make or break for Rafa's Liverpool. Selling Mascherano could set us back a year or two (maybe more).
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Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=refugee link=topic=34357.msg894181#msg894181 date=1245848104]
[quote author=Cerberus link=topic=34357.msg894134#msg894134 date=1245844958]
Its just a thought but if we had two players in midfield (xabi and someone else) behind gerrard who kept the ball better through better passing would we need an el jeficito?
[/quote]
When Arsenal lost their ball winning midfielder they went to the dogs, and they have two excellent passers in midfield.
[/quote]
And United have won title after title without one.
Neither is right or wrong.
In our system though, I agree it's vital to have a ball-winning midfielder because Benitez puts so much emphasis upon 'control' and Mascherano is a perfect fit; especially against the top sides. But then having a player who can contribute a little more the offensive side of things as well as ball-winning capabilities - i.e someone like Barry - could help us pick up more points against the lesser teams. There are games when Javier isn't needed, IMO. And then there are games when the Mascherano, Alonso and Gerrard threesome makes perfect, perfect sense.
I don't want him leave, for the sake of continuity and our title challenge I wouldn't want him sold. But I think he's totally irreplaceable in the same way I regard Xabi.
[quote author=Cerberus link=topic=34357.msg894134#msg894134 date=1245844958]
Its just a thought but if we had two players in midfield (xabi and someone else) behind gerrard who kept the ball better through better passing would we need an el jeficito?
[/quote]
When Arsenal lost their ball winning midfielder they went to the dogs, and they have two excellent passers in midfield.
[/quote]
And United have won title after title without one.
Neither is right or wrong.
In our system though, I agree it's vital to have a ball-winning midfielder because Benitez puts so much emphasis upon 'control' and Mascherano is a perfect fit; especially against the top sides. But then having a player who can contribute a little more the offensive side of things as well as ball-winning capabilities - i.e someone like Barry - could help us pick up more points against the lesser teams. There are games when Javier isn't needed, IMO. And then there are games when the Mascherano, Alonso and Gerrard threesome makes perfect, perfect sense.
I don't want him leave, for the sake of continuity and our title challenge I wouldn't want him sold. But I think he's totally irreplaceable in the same way I regard Xabi.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34357.msg894129#msg894129 date=1245844560]
[quote author=Cerberus link=topic=34357.msg894116#msg894116 date=1245843554]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=34357.msg894112#msg894112 date=1245843223]
About 1% of this board have seen Martiez play regularly (correct me if I'm wrong), so I suspect the mood would be very anxious about his arrival, but getting £40M for Masher would be an excellent and unparalleled bit of business.
[/quote]
It certainly would be for Liverpool which is kinda sad. I'd rather he stayed and love the little bastard when he gets stuck in but I think there's question marks over other aspects of his game. His passing can be wayward at times and if he was to go and we brought in someone like martinez or defour who can break up play and pass better then I dont think it would be the end of the world if he left.
[/quote]
Disagree with both of you. Breaking up the play is exactly the job for which Rafa bought Mascher in the first place, because there is no-one, as in NO-ONE better at it than he anywhere in world football. Sell Mascher and the whole pattern will have to be rejigged, because all the players around him will have to take on more defensive duties to compensate for losing El Jefecito, whoever we fetch in to "replace" him. That's why Rafa's said what he's said about Barca being unable to afford Mascher's value to us, and IMO he's spot on.
[/quote]
Agreed. Although, one of the reason that Masher is so good at breaking up play is the passion he plays. He never, never gives up. I do wonder (just a little) if he will play with the same passion if he really wants to leave.
[quote author=Cerberus link=topic=34357.msg894116#msg894116 date=1245843554]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=34357.msg894112#msg894112 date=1245843223]
About 1% of this board have seen Martiez play regularly (correct me if I'm wrong), so I suspect the mood would be very anxious about his arrival, but getting £40M for Masher would be an excellent and unparalleled bit of business.
[/quote]
It certainly would be for Liverpool which is kinda sad. I'd rather he stayed and love the little bastard when he gets stuck in but I think there's question marks over other aspects of his game. His passing can be wayward at times and if he was to go and we brought in someone like martinez or defour who can break up play and pass better then I dont think it would be the end of the world if he left.
[/quote]
Disagree with both of you. Breaking up the play is exactly the job for which Rafa bought Mascher in the first place, because there is no-one, as in NO-ONE better at it than he anywhere in world football. Sell Mascher and the whole pattern will have to be rejigged, because all the players around him will have to take on more defensive duties to compensate for losing El Jefecito, whoever we fetch in to "replace" him. That's why Rafa's said what he's said about Barca being unable to afford Mascher's value to us, and IMO he's spot on.
[/quote]
Agreed. Although, one of the reason that Masher is so good at breaking up play is the passion he plays. He never, never gives up. I do wonder (just a little) if he will play with the same passion if he really wants to leave.
Martinez is truly wonderful but 20m is a massive risk. 10m should be the most really. And he's no where near masher at doing the masher "role". He doesn't even do that for bilbao. Usually gurpegi or orbaiz
As I've said before, he's more like the lucas we were promised rather than the one we received.
As I've said before, he's more like the lucas we were promised rather than the one we received.
There is only one option, clone him!
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