If I was us I'd wear the ban now

[Judge Jules]

Well, there'd be a risk involved, no question about that. I guess what I'm saying is that some things are too important not to stand up for. In such cases, doing nothing may be the greatest risk of all.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

Even if we wanted to, we couldn't take the ban now anyway yah? My impression is that the written decision has yet to be delivered. The ban kicks in if we decline the chance to appeal after receiving the written decision.

There's no committed timeline for the written decision to be supplied. If we do decide to appeal, there's no committed timeline for the appeal to be heard and reviewed. Even if there were committed timelines, the FA panel has shown that it doesn't need to respect it and can move it out. Heck, they took two months just to process the initial charge.

I'm pretty sure the timelines will be very inconvenient for us, given all that flexibility.

 

[Woland]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=48012.msg1448798#msg1448798 date=1324468844]
Not even @rsed about the possible effect of such damage on his level of performance and hence on any sell-on fee?
[/quote].

He admitted it. I remember the first time I saw people discussing that Uruguayan interview on here and I couldn't believe it. What a dickhead. I don't want to rally round a bitey impetuous stupid twat whose got himself and left us in the shit. I want to minimise damage on the season.

 

[King Binny]

Luis Suárez has 14 days to consider whether to appeal against his eight-match ban for racially abusing Patrice Evra from the date that Liverpool receive the written reasons of the Football Association's regulatory commission, not from Tuesday, which was the date of the decision. It is important to note that Suárez can only appeal against the level of the sanction not the actual verdict.

I would expect Liverpool to receive the written reasons quite soon – they are usually provided within three working days of the decision being announced, although the Christmas period may slow this down. Giving two weeks to decide whether to lodge an appeal is unusual. The usual directions for appeals against the decisions of the regulatory commission provide for a much tighter timetable.

If Suárez decides not to appeal, the decision will become binding. If he decides to appeal, he must provide written submissions and there will be a hearing, at which he will be represented by lawyers. The appeal board can reduce the sanction, but it can also increase the sanction and its decision is stated to be final and binding. But if it goes against Suárez, he may be inclined to try a further challenge.

The additional options he may try to challenge the decision include the following:

• He could bring arbitration proceedings under rule K of the FA's rules. Such an arbitration would be limited to a challenge to the validity of the decision on the grounds of ultra vires (including error of law), irrationality or procedural unfairness. An arbitration would likely take place behind closed doors before a three-person tribunal. The process would take months rather than weeks, and it is likely that the suspension and fine would take effect pending the arbitration.

• He could attempt to bring judicial review proceedings in the high court, but his chances of getting this type of action off the ground must be considered quite limited. In a challenge to the setting up of the Premier League in 1992, the high court decided that the FA was not subject to judicial review.

Regarding how the FA will have prepared for attempts at appeal, the regulatory commission will take great care in the drafting of its written decision. The commission will want to ensure, as far as possible, that the logic and the application of the FA rules are as watertight as possible, giving as little room as they can to routes of appeal.

One other option that may be considered relates to the statement released by Liverpool FC. I note it states that "the accusation by this particular player [Evra] was not credible – certainly no more credible than his prior unfounded accusations". Suárez, therefore, may consider suing Evra for defamation.

When decisions such as this come out, teams and players usually make a statement about "going all the way to Europe". Yet such statements rarely, if ever, come to anything. Rights of access to both the European court of human rights and the court of arbitration for sport are strictly limited, and I would find it hard to believe that any such challenge would be made in the first place.

It also strikes me that any decision whether to appeal may be used tactically. Suárez has 14 days to either (i) accept the charge, (ii) lodge an appeal or (iii) do nothing. If he admits the charge the penalty will take effect from the date the charge is admitted. Should Suárez appeal, the penalty is suspended until after the outcome of the appeal. Alternatively, Suárez could do nothing and allow the penalty to begin at the expiry of the 14-day deadline. These options will determine which matches Suárez can play in over the coming weeks.

A final point: when I advise clients on whether to commence legal action, the legal merits of their case is only one of a number of factors that I take into account. In a case such as this, Suárez and Liverpool should think long and hard about whether they want this case dragged out. A sensible option may be a contrite statement from Suárez making clear that he is not a racist and that he is gravely sorry for any offence he has caused and that, notwithstanding that he does not agree with the decision, he wants to put the whole episode behind him. The risk for Suárez of taking this further is that he goes down in history as the case that got to grips with racism in high-level football.

Steven Friel is a lawyer for Brown Rudnick who specialises in complex disputes

 

[Mamma Mia]

On principle, I want us to fight it all the way.


That said, I think Suarez could do with a rest, and now is probably as good a time as any.


Fuck that though. It's a bullshit case and we shouldn't leave it be.

 

[spider-Neil]

is important to note that Suárez can only appeal against the level of the sanction not the actual verdict.

so suarez can't clear his name?

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Clear it of what? They said he's not racist.

 

[King Binny]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48012.msg1449114#msg1449114 date=1324481319]

is important to note that Suárez can only appeal against the level of the sanction not the actual verdict.

so suarez can't clear his name?
[/quote]

Sorry, forgot to insert the link. Its a piece from Guardian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/21/luis-suarez-liverpool-appeal-options?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+theguardian%2Ffootball%2Frss+%28Football%29

I think the best outcome of an appeal is a reduction of ban and/or fine, unfortunately.

 

[Y1]

So the FA cannot be wrong? How despotic and dictatorial!

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=48012.msg1449130#msg1449130 date=1324481848]
Clear it of what? They said he's not racist.
[/quote]

But the media have painted him as such. I think we'd be better off going after them than the FA to be honest.

 

[Judge Jules]

It would be the player himself who'd have to do that, but there must be ways in which we could help.

In answer to a number of other posts: the appeal process might not provide a means of clearing Suarez' name, but the courts would. That's why I want us to go that route eventually (we probably can't until the appeal process itself is exhausted).

 

[Le Chacal]

Actually, some of the posts convinced me.
It would be better now, send him on holidays in Uruguay, refresh his mind and come back rested and stronger for the end of the season.

 

[Judge Jules]

Refresh his mind? By accepting he's guilty when neither he nor the club believe that?

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Problem is it's not a matter of when it suits us/him best. The issue is serious enough we can't piss around basing our appeal or what not on fixtures, but need to go in full on as soon as we're ready. Any type of delay or positioning around fixtures and it'd lose credibility.

 

[Le Chacal]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=48012.msg1449296#msg1449296 date=1324486842]
Refresh his mind? By accepting he's guilty when neither he nor the club believe that?
[/quote]
Just by forgeting or "accepting" this verdict and mowing forward...

 

[Woland]

Anyway, I was saying

 

[King Binny]

Apologies for bringing up this thread, just thought with the discussions on the other thread mainly about the report, i'll post this news here instead.

Piara Powar, the executive director of Football Against Racism in Europe, has urged Liverpool and Luis Suárez not to appeal against the eight-match ban and £40,000 fine imposed by the Football Association for making racist comments about Manchester United's Patrice Evra.

Powar, a former director of the anti-racism organisation Kick It Out, said in a statement: "The Football Association's published judgment from the Suárez–Evra incident is welcome.

"It appears the FA have taken their time to initiate a process that was both fair in its implementation of football rules, and in accordance with the principles of British justice. As an international non-governmental organisation we [FARE] think the investigation and judgment sets the bar for governing bodies globally."

Powar's response comes after the FA independent commission that found Suárez guilty published a 115-page document detailing its findings in the case relating to the incident between the two players that took place during the match between Liverpool and Manchester United at Anfield on 15 October.

"Racial abuse between players on the field of play has been an unspoken taboo for too long, an area that has been unsatisfactorily dealt with by English football despite many cases over the part 10 years," Powar added.

Liverpool have been criticised for their vehement support of the striker – including wearing T-shirts bearing the player's name before the Premier League match at Wigan on 21 December – before the FA commission had published its full judgment. Powar believes the club must now take heed of the findings and reconsider their stance on the matter.

"Luis Suarez and Liverpool FC have the right to appeal, however we would call on the club to think again about their public campaign to dispute the charges and contest the principles involved in the case. As a club with a good international standing the vehemency of their campaign is unquestionably causing them reputational harm."

 

[Judge Jules]

What, *the* Piara Powar?

The bit which says "in accordance with the principles of British justice" shows this up for the nonsense that it is - the FA's own rules say they don't have to abide by the normal rules of evidence (which they certainly didn't in this case). And which "principles involved in the case" does Mr/Mrs/Ms.Powar think the club is contesting? That racism is wrong? That a person should be convicted only on proper evidence?

 

[RedStar]

An appeal now would be pointless and likely to lead to an increase, Suarez should accept the charge, Kenny should shut up and we should hope people forget those ridiculous T shirts as quickly as possible

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=RedStar link=topic=48012.msg1453795#msg1453795 date=1325452887]
An appeal now would be pointless and likely to lead to an increase, Suarez should accept the charge, Kenny should shut up and we should hope people forget those ridiculous T shirts as quickly as possible
[/quote]

Yeah, why don't we lube ourselves up, bend over & hand the FA a dildo while we're at it?

To back down now would be admitting we agree with the FA charges & punishment, which we don't.

 

[RedStar]

No it would be admitting that an appeal is pointless and will probably increase the length of his ban

Kenny has been fighting a very public war with the FA and the officials all season, he has challenged them vociferously on every possible occasion, not once has it resulted in any benefit to the club, not only has it been unhelpful it has made things worse. We need to draw a line in the sand here and move on, the longer we drag it out the more associated Suarez is become with this incident

 

[SummerOnions]

We argue because it's the right thing to do. If we get an unfair deal, we shouldn't just stand there and accept it, we should do all in our power to change it.

 

[RedStar]

He admitted calling him a negro, as far as Im concerned thats it, I dont buy this cultural relevance thing at all, accept it and move on. If we appeal I fully expect it to be increased on the basis that an appeal at this point is frivolous

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

The fact you could have a suspension increased for lodging an unsuccessful appeal shows the rules are a crock of shit.

 

[RedStar]

Its a necessary evil to stop teams launching appeals purely as a delaying tactic

 

[Judge Jules]

That's true, but they'd be on very shaky ground doing it in this case, when their own commission which conducted the original hearing made specific reference to the club's right of appeal in its judgment. Not all appeals are frivolous, and this one most certainly would not be.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=RedStar link=topic=48012.msg1453817#msg1453817 date=1325455609]
He admitted calling him a negro, as far as Im concerned thats it, I dont buy this cultural relevance thing at all, accept it and move on. If we appeal I fully expect it to be increased on the basis that an appeal at this point is frivolous
[/quote]

Negro in itself isn't classed as a racist word, the US immigration papers state 'Are you a Negro?' for example.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=48012.msg1453949#msg1453949 date=1325500737]
[quote author=RedStar link=topic=48012.msg1453817#msg1453817 date=1325455609]
He admitted calling him a negro, as far as Im concerned thats it, I dont buy this cultural relevance thing at all, accept it and move on. If we appeal I fully expect it to be increased on the basis that an appeal at this point is frivolous
[/quote]

Negro in itself isn't classed as a racist word, the US immigration papers state 'Are you a Negro?' for example.
[/quote]

They might have done in the 50's, yeah. I doubt they do now.

 

[rurikbird]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=48012.msg1453958#msg1453958 date=1325501148]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=48012.msg1453949#msg1453949 date=1325500737]
[quote author=RedStar link=topic=48012.msg1453817#msg1453817 date=1325455609]
He admitted calling him a negro, as far as Im concerned thats it, I dont buy this cultural relevance thing at all, accept it and move on. If we appeal I fully expect it to be increased on the basis that an appeal at this point is frivolous
[/quote]

Negro in itself isn't classed as a racist word, the US immigration papers state 'Are you a Negro?' for example.
[/quote]

They might have done in the 50's, yeah. I doubt they do now.
[/quote]

They don't. The category is called black/african american now. Of course, in Spanish black IS negro.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=48012.msg1453958#msg1453958 date=1325501148]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=48012.msg1453949#msg1453949 date=1325500737]
[quote author=RedStar link=topic=48012.msg1453817#msg1453817 date=1325455609]
He admitted calling him a negro, as far as Im concerned thats it, I dont buy this cultural relevance thing at all, accept it and move on. If we appeal I fully expect it to be increased on the basis that an appeal at this point is frivolous
[/quote]

Negro in itself isn't classed as a racist word, the US immigration papers state 'Are you a Negro?' for example.
[/quote]

They might have done in the 50's, yeah. I doubt they do now.
[/quote]

Sorry its the Census NOT the Immegration form.

The term "Negro" is still used in some historical contexts, such as in the name of the United Negro College Fund[6][7] and the Negro league in sports.

The United States Census Bureau announced that "Negro" would be included on the 2010 United States Census, alongside "Black" and "African-American" because some older Black Americans nevertheless self-identify with the term.[8][9][10]