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How not to protest

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Rosco

Worse than Brendan
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Liverpool supporters have begun a coordinated email campaign to the Royal Bank of Scotland warning of a product boycott if the taxpayer-owned bank provides a long-term extension to the club's £237m loans.

The bank confirmed there had been correspondence from fans but declined to expand on its nature. The business wire service Bloomberg reported that the bank's chief executive, Stephen Hester, has received hundreds of messages, each with a different individual's signature.

"It is my understanding that, if the refinancing deal is renegotiated beyond July 2010, then a campaign in protest against the Royal Bank of Scotland will take place which will include billboards with anti-RBS messages encouraging Liverpool fans to boycott RBS," the emails say. "As a British tax payer and a lifelong Liverpool fan, I can assure you that I am not happy that my hard-earned money is being used to pay for the purchase of Liverpool Football Club for George Gillett and Tom Hicks."

Although RBS did not express any opinion about the messages, the banking sector has always had concerns about the effect on retail operations of a fan backlash if institutions' corporate lending arms make life difficult for clubs. That did not appear to be the case, however, as fans were quiescent when Barclays made a stand over the stricken former Southampton owner, Southampton Leisure Holdings, closing off the club's overdraft and effectively pushing it into administration.

Paradoxically this time the pressure from Liverpool fans is for banks specifically to cause financial problems for the club. The campaign is an attempt to starve the club's American owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, of credit and, if the bank refuses to roll over the club's borrowings, it could precipitate a financial crisis at Anfield.

Few lenders are willing to offer new facilities in the current climate and Hicks and Gillett have so far shown no great enthusiasm for injecting their own equity.

Hicks last year suffered the indignity of defaulting on the $525m (£345m) debt in his Hicks Sports Group holding company, leading to the sale of the Texas Rangers franchise and much of its surrounding real estate to an investment group including the club's president, the former pitcher Nolan Ryan, in January.

Despite that successful transaction – reportedly worth £310m – Hicks's personal wealth is estimated to have slipped in the past 12 months. Forbes calculated in its most recent rich list that Hicks had lost his billionaire status over the course of the year, now being worth $950m. Liverpool are currently exploring the market's appetite for a £100m third-party investment.
 
So, let's get this straight, they're trying to oust the owners by cutting off credit & forcing them to sell?

Sounds ok. Except for the fact no-one with any true backing themselves have come forwards to buy us, so all this means is the Americans are forced to sell at a lower price to an owners or owners who have significantly less cash & assets.

Unless SoS are 100% sure there's a buyer with major assets who will come in & buy us only at a reduced rate & then bankroll the stadium with a large portfolio or estate to provide banking collateral then they're literally forcing us towards financial ruin.
 
And the possibility that we could go into administration and be docked 9 points hasn't dawned on these bellends if finance is withdrawn.
 
Personally Jon I think someone is being very clever. From a business point of view why not wait a while and let the pressure build on the 2 owners to the point where they're forced to sell by banks/for personal funds, at which point the asking price will be significantly lower than £400-500 Million.
 
That may or may not be the case, mate, but to consider it relevant to this thread you'd have to believe this person is/these people are in cahoots with SoS. Is that what you're saying?
 
yeah, you're missing the point Fallon. You're assuming there is an owner simply waiting for teh price to drop below 400 million who will then be able to afford to build our new stadium & enable us to progress.

Sadly there's been no indication of that thus far, so unless, as Jules says, you think they've contacted SoS to gain their help in forcing out G & H then all they're doing is forcing us towards administration or owners who can offer us nothing more than the situation we're already in.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=39277.msg1068908#msg1068908 date=1268491182]
yeah, you're missing the point Fallon. You're assuming there is an owner simply waiting for teh price to drop below 400 million who will then be able to afford to build our new stadium & enable us to progress.

Sadly there's been no indication of that thus far, so unless, as Jules says, you think they've contacted SoS to gain their help in forcing out G & H then all they're doing is forcing us towards administration or owners who can offer us nothing more than the situation we're already in.
[/quote]


but it is common knowledge that the owners need to find £100m or so to reduce the debt in the short term, isn't it? therefore any potential buyer would naturally hold back to see whether the owners' hands will be forced, i'd have thought.

what are the actual chances of us going into administration if we don't find the £100m? would the owners be better off letting that happen than just selling up at a reduced price? what's the most likely outcome?
 
I did mean to quote this from Jon;

"Except for the fact no-one with any true backing themselves have come forwards to buy us"

I was only referring to that and nothing about SOS, Peterhague just said more or less what I meant. It might not be the case but it's possible, it's not like we're going anywhere and regardless of european qualification and the likes, with our fan base we will always be an attractive prospect for investment.
 
I understand where you're coming from, but it is essentially gambling with the fact that someone will come in for us& that they will be a more solvent prospect than we have currently.

I dont see that as a particularly good bet myself.
 
I can't see somebody coming in if they haven't got the money to pay the debts off anyway to be honest. Fingers crossed there's some merit to the Ambami rumours.
 
That's just it though, if this happens, & they Americans are forced into a sale, anyway could buy us. We could easily get someone buying us simply to asset strip. We have a helluva lot of assets in players & training ground etc that they could recoup their money on whilst taking money from ticket sales & merchandising before getting rid again.

It's the exact same model followed in the business world time & again, & we'd be ripe for picking.
 
This will not have any effect.

It never does, because SoS are largely useless rabble.
 
I guess you make a fair point Jon, here's hoping that never happens because I'm not sure we'd recover if it did.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=39277.msg1068919#msg1068919 date=1268496875]
That's just it though, if this happens, & they Americans are forced into a sale, anyway could buy us. We could easily get someone buying us simply to asset strip. We have a helluva lot of assets in players & training ground etc that they could recoup their money on whilst taking money from ticket sales & merchandising before getting rid again.

It's the exact same model followed in the business world time & again, & we'd be ripe for picking.
[/quote]


that's pretty far-fetched. to make that attractive to an investor would require the price to fall so low that Hicks & Gillet would be better off just holding on and injecting the £100m themselves. plus the fact that not many people, even the most ruthless business people, are going to want to be associated with asset-stripping one of the great institutions of world sport for what would be a pretty minimal profit. that's pretty damn unlikely.

i reckon the most likely outcome of all this is that we'll be unable to find a minority investment, H&G will be forced to sell up at a realistic price, and we'll just have to take our chances with whoever comes in. i don't think those chances are all that bad tbh, i mean the route to a profitable investment is clear enough (follow the arsenal/emirates model), you just have to have the means to do it, which H&G have proven not to have. it stands to reason that there'll be plenty of people willing to take on the project so long as the price is right, which hopefully should be achieved with the default on the loan.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=39277.msg1068909#msg1068909 date=1268492541]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=39277.msg1068908#msg1068908 date=1268491182]
yeah, you're missing the point Fallon. You're assuming there is an owner simply waiting for teh price to drop below 400 million who will then be able to afford to build our new stadium & enable us to progress.

Sadly there's been no indication of that thus far, so unless, as Jules says, you think they've contacted SoS to gain their help in forcing out G & H then all they're doing is forcing us towards administration or owners who can offer us nothing more than the situation we're already in.
[/quote]


but it is common knowledge that the owners need to find £100m or so to reduce the debt in the short term, isn't it? therefore any potential buyer would naturally hold back to see whether the owners' hands will be forced, i'd have thought.


[/quote]

In fact it would be the exact opposite I imagine. Anyone interested in making an offer for Liverpool would be lining it up right now in the lead up to July. The competitive tension that will pressure the owners into making a deal ends in July. If they find a way through that time frame (and I think they would) then they'll have no pressure or far less pressure to sell and therefore be able to hike up the sale price they want.

Right now it looks like there is pain in front of H&G if they can't make a deal so that should mean they are motivated sellers and a buyer will have the chance to move in.
 
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