they were in Europe as well though.
How Do You Stop The Rampant Reds?
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I don't buy this fitness lark. We didn't run out of steam last season with loads more games so why should we do so this season? Coutihno has become pivotal to our play, I think he would be a big miss if he got injured.
However I think if the players stay fit perhaps the biggest barrier to a title run maybe the pressure, have we got the bottle.
However I think if the players stay fit perhaps the biggest barrier to a title run maybe the pressure, have we got the bottle.
I didn't watch much of Klopp's Dortmund in the past but he was obviously very successful with them back then.
Were they playing in a style similar to what we have now or did Klopp evolve? It will be interesting to do some analysis on how they fell apart in the latter years and make sure it didn't happen with us.
But if we were to have as much success before falling apart I wouldn't complain too much.
Were they playing in a style similar to what we have now or did Klopp evolve? It will be interesting to do some analysis on how they fell apart in the latter years and make sure it didn't happen with us.
But if we were to have as much success before falling apart I wouldn't complain too much.
I actually thought Swansea did that bit very well in the first half against us, they ran out of steam though and we began to exploit that fact.
there's an interesting article knocking about today comparing both teams. This team has 10 more goals and three more points at this stage, but rather interestingly, this team is exposing itself to more opposition shots per game (I think it's on average 12 for this team, with 8 for Rodgers' team), but they both have an identical average goals conceded per game - 1.3 goals.
Another extremely long winded of saying 'I was wrong'?
At this stage in 13/14 Suarez just returned to the side, so we weren't quite fully swashbuckling yet, if I remember right.
And as everyone has pointed out, that title challenge, like the previous two, was very much us playing catchup to a superior team.
This could be very different.
I've just cursed us haven't I?
Anyway, the Top 6 teams are the same Top 6 everyone thought would be in the mix, so to speak, so it's just great to be top right now.
It's a rarity for the top 6 to be taking such expected shape at this stage. Maybe it's showing how dominant the top sides were expected to be this season, after the appointment of a few top managers in the Summer, aswell as Klopp enjoying a full Summer with the squad.
I still think City are the ones to watch, I expect Arsenal will fall away as per and Chelsea & United will become tougher and tougher as the season progresses.
I still think City are the ones to watch, I expect Arsenal will fall away as per and Chelsea & United will become tougher and tougher as the season progresses.
I'm sure there will be some improvement among that lot, there's always one or two that embark on a great run, with a few of those annoying 'nicked that' scrappy 1-0 victories that all Champions need at some point.
Can we do that?
As for other rivals improving, Klopp reckons we will too. So that's encouraging.
But while we're top now, it's not likely we can win the title winning 4-3 and 4-2 or whatever.
We need to have a balance between smashing in goals, and conceding stupid ones.
Can we do that?
As for other rivals improving, Klopp reckons we will too. So that's encouraging.
But while we're top now, it's not likely we can win the title winning 4-3 and 4-2 or whatever.
We need to have a balance between smashing in goals, and conceding stupid ones.
I'm nonchalant about the defence at this moment in time. We are outscoring just about everyone we play - and in a lot of games by a big margin.
I'm not foolish enough to think that the leaks won't bite us in the arse at some point or another, but so far it isn't a problem.
The Tottenham game is the only one that irks, Burnley was an aberration, but a clean sheet at Tottenham would have put us four points clear by this point.
Tottenham are actually a good team to have a look at in my opinion. They are tight at the back, they are not losing, but they are missing Harry Kane badly. We don't even have a 'striker' on the pitch most games, yet the majority of teams can't live with us because we are scoring from everywhere. I know who I'd rather be.
I'm not foolish enough to think that the leaks won't bite us in the arse at some point or another, but so far it isn't a problem.
The Tottenham game is the only one that irks, Burnley was an aberration, but a clean sheet at Tottenham would have put us four points clear by this point.
Tottenham are actually a good team to have a look at in my opinion. They are tight at the back, they are not losing, but they are missing Harry Kane badly. We don't even have a 'striker' on the pitch most games, yet the majority of teams can't live with us because we are scoring from everywhere. I know who I'd rather be.
I'd always prefer to be Liverpool than fucking Spurs. That surly cunt Pinocchio is getting on my tits too, although I do admittedly hate every manager in the Premiership.
I quite like just how much of a sore loser he is, from a distance.
I think he's always been chippy; his playing days were littered with yellow and red cards
For the best ever shithouse you can't beat Rui Faria
I'd love someone to spark that cunt out
Well we have seen it twice but unfortunately for the other teams the following can be said:-
1) We have learnt some since the Burnly game as proved against WBH, Swansea, and Crystal Palace. You can now defend with 10 men but Klopp has got the message through in my opinion about how to not pass it around for the sake of it but to keep moving and pass first touch. The evidence thus far it is working.
2) If they out press us - then we can still find a way because the truth is that our players I think are fitter than most other premier league players - I reckon we can play the high intensity game for 70 minutes - where as other teams are probably only capable for 45 mins max - except Spurs.
I think if the opposition have good enough defenders who are disciplined then the best way is to man-mark - if it is possible and to disrupt our passing game wherever possible. The problem is that they the opposition may then find that they cannot create the scoring chances for themselves.
1) We have learnt some since the Burnly game as proved against WBH, Swansea, and Crystal Palace. You can now defend with 10 men but Klopp has got the message through in my opinion about how to not pass it around for the sake of it but to keep moving and pass first touch. The evidence thus far it is working.
2) If they out press us - then we can still find a way because the truth is that our players I think are fitter than most other premier league players - I reckon we can play the high intensity game for 70 minutes - where as other teams are probably only capable for 45 mins max - except Spurs.
I think if the opposition have good enough defenders who are disciplined then the best way is to man-mark - if it is possible and to disrupt our passing game wherever possible. The problem is that they the opposition may then find that they cannot create the scoring chances for themselves.
I think you can look at this from a number of different angles:
- Maximizing ROI
The side Klopp inherited was heavily invested in a group of attacking midfielders. It may have been more prudent and financially viable in the short to medium term to simply build around what was there already rather than to rip things up and start again. I think the situation actually suited all parties.
- Changing times
I think it was @peekay in another thread that made the (rather overlooked) point that midfields these days don't quite have the same star power that they did up until recently.
The last 15 years gave us some of the best midfields / midfielders the game has ever seen and they were the center-piece of their respective teams. Their successors however have tended to take on more of a supporting role whether it to play as part of a wider attacking unit or simply to act as water carriers for the more talented players.
As always, it's perhaps a little difficult to determine whether the game has changed because those players aren't coming through as much or whether those players aren't coming through as much because the game has changed. Personally I think it's more a case of the latter.
Traditional roles are being blurred all over the pitch and specialists are finding it harder and harder to take center stage.
- Getting the right 20+ player is hard
We had two summers to get a decent forward and managed to spend near enough 50M on Balotelli and Benteke.
Now it's fair to say we make it much harder than it needs to be, particularly by wasting money on chumps but we're not alone.
Spurs have been struggling to buy a striker every summer for the last god knows how many years. Lucky for them to struck gold with a youth product, which has helped but they're still lacking.
Everybody is after that player that can do it all and score goals these days - which made it all the more weird that Arsenal having managed to snare one continued plodding along with Giroud up front.
With the switch for Arsenal this season the make up of their top scorers is quite similar - Coutinho v Ozil, Walcott v Mane and Sanchez v Firmino.
Define "do the business".
Scoring goals? Influencing games in general?
He's not at the level of a Suarez but despite being a rung below he's still one of the best all round forwards around.
@keniget - don't ask - I just don't warm to the guy and for some reason you know you kind of fear an opposition player because he has certain abilities - well he is one of those that does not seem to worry or impress me. This is going to sound bad but I get the same feeling towards Christiano Ronaldo (who never scored against us when playing for United) and other players that many people on here would rate (ah hem Zlatan, Messi, Neymar). - Suarez scares the shit out of me though !!!
Im actually no where near as bothered by the defence as I have been in the past, to the point where it's almost not an issue for me. I know that sounds absolutely bonkers, but let me explain.
In 2014, it was literally we'll score more than you, it was frenetic and chaotic, there was no control, just a race to the finish, a race we usually won, the games against Stoke, City and Cardiff stick in mind, but also so does the game against Crystal Palace, it was incredible to watch, but we were always a scorpion dangling from a string.
This season seems different, we still concede some absolutely bonkers goals, but they rarely seem to be vital goals that cost us points (Spurs being the only one) or swing the game, importantly we always seem to be in control of these games, and never lose our heads when we concede like in that season. This gives me confidence, and I think our ability to hold on to games has improved massively as a result of that control, and that's the important thing.
Obviously Arsenal is the outlier to this opinion, but I'm going to write it down to first game jitters as games this season we've held firm when we'd have often collapsed before. So, in conclusion, whilst we're obviously conceding too many goals, I don't think it's the biggest problem as we're retaining control of the games, and if we can keep doing that, then we'll be just fine.
Whilst Jon raises some legitimate popular concerns personally I see them as overblown.
Starting with the gegenpressing and distance covered over a season. Dortmund's record was not an issue bar one season, after they had had a number of seasons of European, Cup and BL runs and success. It happens. Arsenal have been on the receiving end of a similar casualty list more than once in recent seasons.
We can of course consider that the players at City, United, Spurs and Arsenal will all likely play far more minutes this season than our players due to European games (estimates vary from 5-10 games) so that even with rotation due to having deeper squads their players will still have run further. This doesn't even take into account that City and Spurs especially, play with high intensity similar pressing tactics. I don't think the distance covered per match is excessive (e.g. Hoffenheim covered 123 kms as a team this past weekend, in their 1-1 draw at Bayern, compared to our 115kms).
Clinical. Whilst I'd agree that we are not clinical per se the average striker doesn't put away more than ca. 1:3 chances and if we scored 6 from 11 good chances against Watford I'd say 1:2 was a pretty good stat, as is 6 goals from 27 shots or whatever it was. Nevertheless we are not clinical but the amount of chances we create balances out this (perceived ?) deficiency. The worry is that the chances will dry up - but that would mean a failure in tactics and personnel which isn't really a concern at the moment.
Since we didn't spend anything net last Summer I highly doubt there is nothing in the kitty for Klopp should he wish to spend it (I believe he will bring in 2 players in January). That's on the manager and I hope he doesn't waste the opportunity to strengthen, as we have a real chance of the title if we continue playing as we are.
This however also doesn't take into consideration the strength of our squad, even if not the largest it is of very good quality:
Our backup players looking like this (substitute Can for Wijnaldum if you prefer) :
Mignolet (decent PL keeper, he has actually played quite well in the PL games he started this season and was not to blame for a single goal),
Klavan (CB), Lucas (CB - has played consistently well when called upon to play CB),
Wijnaldum (MF), Grujic (MF), Stewart (MF), Ejaria (MF, young but a great prospect and not out of his depth),
Origi (F) & Sturridge (F),
Our weaknesses are the FB slots with Randall & Moreno but Alexander-Arnold has done really well when called upon (RB) and Gomez (LB & CB) could be getting games by the New Year if required (building up fitness now). I'm not at all worried about the 'depth' of our squad so long as we avoid a deep injury list.
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Don't forget our back 5 that day was : Mignolet, Clyne, Lovren, Klavan and Moreno. 3 changes (plus one positional change) from our 1st choice back line now.
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We should not underestimate the Power of Klopp. He is getting his round of appraisals, but the way his team is developing is Down to detailed and hard work on the training Field. And we see improvment all the time.
Examples are of course many. But one is that a few weeks back he again went on to discuss set pieces. Since then we have scored from 3 corners. Can of course be a coincident, but working on set pieces was not only defensive work it seem.
His group of players are extreme when it comes to winning the ball back in good positions. We saw it against Watford, and also against Burnley. But the progress between those two matches is what we do With the ball when we win it back. It is not that against Watford we had a day on and Burnley a day off. I believe Our coaching staff shows that they do a terrific job developing this team. And that should scare some of the other teams. Cause as Klopp rightly says there are still areas to improve. and when we keep on improving it is going to be hard to stop the reds.
Examples are of course many. But one is that a few weeks back he again went on to discuss set pieces. Since then we have scored from 3 corners. Can of course be a coincident, but working on set pieces was not only defensive work it seem.
His group of players are extreme when it comes to winning the ball back in good positions. We saw it against Watford, and also against Burnley. But the progress between those two matches is what we do With the ball when we win it back. It is not that against Watford we had a day on and Burnley a day off. I believe Our coaching staff shows that they do a terrific job developing this team. And that should scare some of the other teams. Cause as Klopp rightly says there are still areas to improve. and when we keep on improving it is going to be hard to stop the reds.
I think the defence is not that bad by and large especially since Matip has come in, in fact I'm sick of hearing how bad it is not only here but from every pundit out there. If you compare the stats since Matip has come in the goals conceded by the top six is like this
MU 12
Us 9
MC 8
Arse 7
Ch 7
Spurs 5
So since Matip has come in we are not that different in goals conceded from our rivals. You would think we shipping bucketloads compared to them if you listen to the so called experts
MU 12
Us 9
MC 8
Arse 7
Ch 7
Spurs 5
So since Matip has come in we are not that different in goals conceded from our rivals. You would think we shipping bucketloads compared to them if you listen to the so called experts
We've kept one clean sheet in 10 games, and have conceded more goals than any other team in the Top 8. Apart from Watford, but they had a bad twatting recently.
I don't think it's exaggerated much, we do not look at all capable of clean sheets.
Yeah but not since Matip has come in, anyone can see he has made a massive difference
Defence is pretty much Ok. Let in 6 in three first games (all away) while settling in. After that we have pretty much been ok. A goal against every now and then (at the bridge and Selhurst park) is something that will happen. I guess we all would welcome a clean sheet more often, but some of the goals against has been more human error (Leicester and 1st Palace) than how we defend.
Whilst I totally get the not getting carried away, cautious approach...that's another pretty negative post of yours based on a lot of if's and buts and the worst case scenerio. It's like our rivals who whilst very very dangerous are perfect themselves and we can't continue to improve as a team and iron out weaknesses.
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