How computer analysts took over at Britain's top football clubs

[peterhague]

So if a lack of coaching wasn't the reason, why exactly was Kenny so shit?

 

[gkmacca]

I think you've beamed into the wrong question. Check your coordinates.

 

[dantes]

So if a lack of coaching wasn't the reason, why exactly was Kenny so shit?

He spent too much money on players and so was committed to waiting it out for his team to get it together.

Rodgers spent less money, so had the flexibility to chop and change things until something worked

 

[gkmacca]

Steve Clarke, a coach praised to the skies by Mourinho, Scolari and Bobby Robson for his ability to work with and improve young players, was the coach of Henderson. If you really think the only reason Henderson is now much better than he was is because of better coaching, then you have serious criticism of Steve Clarke. I'm writing this very slowly so Peter can follow it carefully.

 

[StevieM]

@gkmacca

Take it up with Digger mate, he'll happily explain his views in great detail.


Not trying to start another Dalglish debate -just presenting a someone's opinion thT seems relevant.

 

[StevieM]

Steve Clarke, a coach praised to the skies by Mourinho, Scolari and Bobby Robson for his ability to work with and improve young players, was the coach of Henderson. If you really think the only reason Henderson is now much better than he was is because of better coaching, then you have serious criticism of Steve Clarke. I'm writing this very slowly so Peter can follow it carefully.

Or the person instructing the coach on what to coach him on.

 

[gkmacca]

@StevieM Oh right. So every time you post something approvingly that someone else said I have to seek them out and take it up with them? That sounds exhausting, and also seems to misunderstand how forums work.

 

[gkmacca]

Or the person instructing the coach on what to coach him on.

So a coach is someone who does what someone else instructs him to do? That sounds like over-manning to me. But take it up with Kenny, eh?

 

[peterhague]

Steve Clarke, a coach praised to the skies by Mourinho, Scolari and Bobby Robson for his ability to work with and improve young players, was the coach of Henderson. If you really think the only reason Henderson is now much better than he was is because of better coaching, then you have serious criticism of Steve Clarke. I'm writing this very slowly so Peter can follow it carefully.

I'm sure Steve Clark did an excellent job during Kenny's tenure.

 

[gkmacca]

But not with Henderson, presumably.

 

[keniget]

Steve Clarke, a coach praised to the skies by Mourinho, Scolari and Bobby Robson for his ability to work with and improve young players, was the coach of Henderson. If you really think the only reason Henderson is now much better than he was is because of better coaching, then you have serious criticism of Steve Clarke. I'm writing this very slowly so Peter can follow it carefully.

Does it have to be a criticism of Clarke? Is it not possible that a coach may be able to get the most out of some players but not others no matter how good he is?

 

[peterhague]

Henderson was a difficult case. Apparently he would often vomit violently before games on hearing Kenny's tactics.

 

[gkmacca]

Henderson was a difficult case. Apparently he would often vomit violently before games on hearing Kenny's tactics.

Can't you trot off and annex the Sudetanland or whatever your plan is?

 

[gkmacca]

Does it have to be a criticism of Clarke? Is it not possible that a coach may be able to get the most out of some players but not others no matter how good he is?

Quite. Which is different from suggesting a player has gone from not being coached to being coached. Glad we all got there in the end.

 

[peterhague]

Can't you trot off and annex the Sudetanland or whatever your plan is?

That looks like a cheap attempt to wind me up.

 

[StevieM]

So a coach is someone who does what someone else instructs him to do? That sounds like over-manning to me. But take it up with Kenny, eh?

You know what - there's absolutely no point in having any sort of discussion with you if Dalglish is mentioned - you loose all perspective.

 

[Brizzle]

Quite. Which is different from suggesting a player has gone from not being coached to being coached. Glad we all got there in the end.

There is also no way of knowing exactly what Clarke had Hendo focussing on, and whether some of those are starting to click. Coaching doesn't happen overnight and I would think that the efforts of coaches before Rodgers came in would be partly responsible for the improvements in his game.

 

[gkmacca]

You know what - there's absolutely no point in having any sort of discussion with you if Dalglish is mentioned - you loose all perspective.

"Lose".

 

[gkmacca]

There is also no way of knowing exactly what Clarke had Hendo focussing on, and whether some of those are starting to click. Coaching doesn't happen overnight and I would think that the efforts of coaches before Rodgers came in would be partly responsible for the improvements in his game.

Watch out, you'll be accused of 'loosing' all perspective by being logical.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

I work with SAP and one of the buzzwords in today's IT world is 'Big Data'.

It's prowess in analyzing big chunks of data at a blink of an eye, should not be underestimated. Big Data technology is after all used in areas such as weather computation, analysis and forecast, where the amount of data can be frighteningly large to break down. So I won't be surprised if statistical data in football are used also for predictive analysis.

Like financial data in Wall Street or data for weather forecast......they all serve the same purpose....they won't help you predict an accurate outcome but they can help you determine patterns to make your choices more wisely.

 

[kingjulian]

This misses the fact that Dalglish had changed with the times, and the quality of player he had, to the extent that, since his Blackburn days, he had appointed a top-rated coach to do what Rodgers now does. Steve Clarke wasn't sitting on his arse during that time, and Clarke was regarded as one of the best coaches in the country. So the comparison is a bit flawed (and even more flawed once Digger goes on to discuss what went wrong during HIS time at Celtic and Tranmere - not his fault at all, apparently, even though he had his own special coaching plan). Henderson was always being coached fairly intensively. But you can't stop a player from being so anxious before games that he throws up every time, as Hendo did, or forgets basic information, as he seemed to do, just by coaching him. It could be he needed time to grow and develop and learn. A year on and he was more receptive. That's not a criticism of Rodgers, who has clearly been brilliant with Henderson and deserves plenty of praise for that, it's just to point out you can't just jump a year or so ahead and say any improvement must be due to one thing and one thing only.

Even bloody hindsight is not 20//20....i hate this world

 

[iseered]

"Lose".

 

[gkmacca]

That's the kind of reaction that explains the poor standard of basic education these days. (There should have been a comma after "say," and another after "sir," by the way. Just trying to help.)

 

[StevieM]

"Lose".

Good work.

 

[gkmacca]

No work at all, it's a pleasure.

 

[StevieM]

This misses the fact that Dalglish had changed with the times, and the quality of player he had, to the extent that, since his Blackburn days, he had appointed a top-rated coach to do what Rodgers now does. Steve Clarke wasn't sitting on his arse during that time, and Clarke was regarded as one of the best coaches in the country. So the comparison is a bit flawed (and even more flawed once Digger goes on to discuss what went wrong during HIS time at Celtic and Tranmere - not his fault at all, apparently, even though he had his own special coaching plan). Henderson was always being coached fairly intensively. But you can't stop a player from being so anxious before games that he throws up every time, as Hendo did, or forgets basic information, as he seemed to do, just by coaching him. It could be he needed time to grow and develop and learn. A year on and he was more receptive. That's not a criticism of Rodgers, who has clearly been brilliant with Henderson and deserves plenty of praise for that, it's just to point out you can't just jump a year or so ahead and say any improvement must be due to one thing and one thing only.

I suppose the point being made was around the importance of player mentality and how they understand their role in a team.

Anyway - wasn't meant as a dig at Kenny - and it wasn't presented as the definitive "only" reason for Henderson's improvement.