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How can we fix this in the short-term?

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keniget

6CM Addict
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Okay, so everyone wants Rafa to fuck off and take Lucas et al with him, however that doesn't seem likely to happen just yet and even if it did, his successor would be left with the same problem turning around a lifeless team full of players that have lost their confidence, passion and worst of all (in some cases) just don't care anymore.

------------------ Reina

Well, he's not going to win the Golden Gloves award this year sadly.

Carra ----- Skrtel --- Agger ----- Aurelio

It's not a particularly adventurous backline and it's hard to say that any of them have been individually brilliant (or even good) so far, but right now, I think it's the best we can do. I've stuck up for Insua this season but his headless chicken act, poor crossing and poor clearances can only be tolerated for so long. Aurelio at least, for all his faults, can hold onto the ball. Johnson is the notable omission I suppose and that's largely because he looks like a player whose confidence is shot to shit. Maybe it's just me but the look on the face would almost have you believe he's one mistake away from being executed.

Johnson -- Gerrard -- Masher --- Riera / Babel / Kuyt

Putting Johnson in midfield serves two purposes: 1) to get rid of Kuyt who has been dreadful and 2) try and get Johnson to recover some of his confidence and early season form without having to worry about defending as much. Central midfield is a real worry though. Gerrard is having what might be his worst season ever, Lucas needs to be dropped, Aquilani is a no-show and Masher is suspended so it's really a case of having to make the best of things. Hopefully the red card will be rescinded, which will allow Masher in for Lucas who is not deserving of the title "Liverpool's worst ever midfielder"... although he might be one of it's most ineffectual. The left is another concern... Yossi can't play there because he's terrible, the fullbacks don't have the all round game, Riera might as well be dead and Babel is just returning, not that he'll play. We'll just have to rotate between the options of Riera (if we can resurrect him), Babel and Kuyt.

---------------- Yossi
----------------- Torres

The attack is pretty straightforward. Our two best attacking players this season should be as close to goal as possible. Yossi does like running into space with the ball - I'm not at all convinced this reputation for being the clever 'lil no.10 with an eye for a pass is deserved - so it might not work, but it's worth a gamble. Failing that, Kuyt or maybe N'Gog can partner Torres.

So, I guess I'm not really saying anything new here but that's the team I'd like to see until Aquilani is ready to play football.
 
I agree with Johnson in midfield but I wouldn't feel too confident with Carra at RB, and I think we're more settled in the centre of defence with Carra and Agger.
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38010.msg1017705#msg1017705 date=1261234796]
I agree with Johnson in midfield but I wouldn't feel too confident with Carra at RB, and I think we're more settled in the centre of defence with Carra and Agger.
[/quote]

I don't want Carra at RB either but the only alternative is Degen who also looks more suited to RWB or RW. At least Johnson has pace to help Carra out.
 
What about bringing in Darren Anderton? He is supposed to have hung up his boots, but I swear he is fitter than most of our first team squad!
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38010.msg1017705#msg1017705 date=1261234796]
I agree with Johnson in midfield but I wouldn't feel too confident with Carra at RB, and I think we're more settled in the centre of defence with Carra and Agger.
[/quote]

Agreed. When is Kelly going to be fit again?

As for LW, I really think we need to buy someone in January for that position. Someone fast and left-footed. For me, it's more of a priority than a back-up striker. Sell Dossena, Riera and Babel and use all the money we receive to get a single replacement. Pacheco can be the back-up in that position.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38010.msg1017724#msg1017724 date=1261235126]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38010.msg1017705#msg1017705 date=1261234796]
I agree with Johnson in midfield but I wouldn't feel too confident with Carra at RB, and I think we're more settled in the centre of defence with Carra and Agger.
[/quote]

Agreed. When is Kelly going to be fit again?

As for LW, I really think we need to buy someone in January for that position. Someone fast and left-footed. For me, it's more of a priority than a back-up striker. Sell Dossena, Riera and Babel and use all the money we receive to get a single replacement. Pacheco can be the back-up in that position.
[/quote]

Do you really trust Rafa to fin a left winger to fit in? He has brought in a dozen allready with all of them not fitting in at left wing... Can you beat that one??
 
Haven't read the post here but two things we must do are as follows.

Put Gerrard in CM and play Yossi behind Torres.

Or else play 442 as the whole idea of 451 was that we were solid at the back but as we f*cked at the back this season we may as well set ourselves up to attack more and create more chances.
 
Dont you understand Rafa will try everything to prove his point.
He wont change anything.
We might see Aurelio and Lucas in the middle next match.
 
I will tell you.
Play 442 with Torres and N'gog, until we get someone in January, and play Gerrard and Aqualani in the centre. (Mascher is going to be missing for at least four games). Benayoun on the right, Aurelio on the left until Riera is fit, and bring in Pacheco and Eccleston for the bench, along with Dirk

regards
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38010.msg1017705#msg1017705 date=1261234796]
I agree with Johnson in midfield but I wouldn't feel too confident with Carra at RB, and I think we're more settled in the centre of defence with Carra and Agger.
[/quote]

I would agree with that. I would also like to see Johnson in midfield .. he creates more in one match than Kuyt in a month. If Kelly was fit I would say :

Degen .... Carra or Skrtel ....... Agger ....... Kelly

in MF then it becomes :

................................. Masherano

Johnson .............Aquilani ....................Aurelio

...................Gerrard
....................................Torres

I'm really not bothered if Carra or Skrtel takes their place alongside Agger. Carra looks punch drunk to me he's taken so many blows (as does Johnson who has had an horrendous few days ... but he'll recover, class player etc.).

I would prefer Kelly to Degen at RB but then there is no-one to replace Insua without dropping Aurelio back to LB. Kelly has played plenty of games at LB and is a very useful defender who can get forward. Give him his chance, he can't be worse than Insua of late.

From Masherano forward that team can not only hold onto the ball but are creative and positive attacking forces.

That may be too many changes to a back line that is shaking in it's boots every time an opponent crosses the half way line but desperate measures and all that.
 
Short term?
I really dont think this can be solved with the current manager.
We play with no heart or desire, he's lost the dressing room and the fans will soon follow.

Its beyond saveable, and I dont think it can be turned around.

We need a new manager with fresh perspective. Start playing 4-4-2 and get in a couple of loan signings in january. RVN and a winger.
 
Look everyone, can we ditch this Torres and Gerrard thing once and for all please.
It worked last year, even when the two of them are fit it looks crap now, the opposition have all worked it out now, and all that happens is that Torres ends up isolated up front

regards
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38010.msg1017763#msg1017763 date=1261235813]
Look everyone, can we ditch this Torres and Gerrard thing once and for all please.
It worked last year, even when the two of them are fit it looks crap now, the opposition have all worked it out now, and all that happens is that Torres ends up isolated up front

regards
[/quote]

It isn't going to happen with Benitez in charge. He doesn't trust Gerrard in the middle and Gerrard doesn't like playing out wide.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38010.msg1017763#msg1017763 date=1261235813]
Look everyone, can we ditch this Torres and Gerrard thing once and for all please.
It worked last year, even when the two of them are fit it looks crap now, the opposition have all worked it out now, and all that happens is that Torres ends up isolated up front

regards
[/quote]

The reason for that is the dross behind them. They're both being forced into being back-to-the-goal players which they're clearly not. Change the midfield before you pair them up top again. For the time being, drop Gerrard back to the centre and play Torres and Yossi up top.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38010.msg1017763#msg1017763 date=1261235813]
Look everyone, can we ditch this Torres and Gerrard thing once and for all please.
It worked last year, even when the two of them are fit it looks crap now, the opposition have all worked it out now, and all that happens is that Torres ends up isolated up front

regards
[/quote]

I said this in the summer and was called "mental".

Top post, Keni. Agree word for word.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38010.msg1017763#msg1017763 date=1261235813]
Look everyone, can we ditch this Torres and Gerrard thing once and for all please.
It worked last year, even when the two of them are fit it looks crap now, the opposition have all worked it out now, and all that happens is that Torres ends up isolated up front

regards
[/quote]

Yeah Vlad but that's cos of the CM players we have this season. With Alonso and Mascherano it was the perfect marriage, Mascherano provided the defensive boot we needed and Alonso was there to play it forward. With Lucas and Mascherano in CM there is no one there to play the ball up creatively and efffectively enough. So Gerrard is forced to drop deeper to look for the ball leaving Torres isolated.

In theory Aquailani was supposed to fix that
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=38010.msg1017775#msg1017775 date=1261236053]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38010.msg1017763#msg1017763 date=1261235813]
Look everyone, can we ditch this Torres and Gerrard thing once and for all please.
It worked last year, even when the two of them are fit it looks crap now, the opposition have all worked it out now, and all that happens is that Torres ends up isolated up front

regards
[/quote]

The reason for that is the dross behind them. They're both being forced into being back-to-the-goal players which they're clearly not. Change the midfield before you pair them up top again. For the time being, drop Gerrard back to the centre and play Torres and Yossi up top.
[/quote]

And note that Gerrard is still not fit.

*great goal from our Danny puts Fulham 1-0 over United * !
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38010.msg1017783#msg1017783 date=1261236187]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38010.msg1017763#msg1017763 date=1261235813]
Look everyone, can we ditch this Torres and Gerrard thing once and for all please.
It worked last year, even when the two of them are fit it looks crap now, the opposition have all worked it out now, and all that happens is that Torres ends up isolated up front

regards
[/quote]

Yeah Vlad but that's cos of the CM players we have this season. With Alonso and Mascherano it was the perfect marriage, Mascherano provided the defensive boot we needed and Alonso was there to play it forward. With Lucas and Mascherano in CM there is no one there to play the ball up creatively and efffectively enough. So Gerrard is forced to drop deeper to look for the ball leaving Torres isolated.

In theory Aquailani was supposed to fix that
[/quote]

Deepest irony that the money [so far] wasted on that crock would have paid off Rafa.
 
The worry is this is a vicious cycle, our midfield lacks creativity and our defence is leaking goals, and our new creative midfielder is awol whether its injury or Per Kroldrup cyndrome, I dont think there is much we can do, our squad is weak as fuck. Rafa is too stubborn to change our formation and too stubborn to realise that certain players i.e. Kuyt and Lucas need dropping.
 
Reina

Johnson - Carra - Agger - Aurelio

Benayoun - Gerrard - Mascherano - Riera

Ngog - Torres

Id like to see that team given a go, we wont though.
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38010.msg1017799#msg1017799 date=1261236484]
Is he injured again? I must have missed that
[/quote]

I read that he'd taken a knock on his thigh in midweek. He'll have to stop trying to trap the ball that way I think.
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=38010.msg1017775#msg1017775 date=1261236053]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38010.msg1017763#msg1017763 date=1261235813]
Look everyone, can we ditch this Torres and Gerrard thing once and for all please.
It worked last year, even when the two of them are fit it looks crap now, the opposition have all worked it out now, and all that happens is that Torres ends up isolated up front

regards
[/quote]

The reason for that is the dross behind them. They're both being forced into being back-to-the-goal players which they're clearly not. Change the midfield before you pair them up top again. For the time being, drop Gerrard back to the centre and play Torres and Yossi up top.
[/quote]

No its not, its because the opposition know if they can snuff Gerrard out it falls over, they only have to stop the supply to and the supply from one man, it's easy - and sadly Gerrard takes less snuffing out at the moment
If we still had Alonso here , it would not have worked this year

regards
 
[quote author=Tal link=topic=38010.msg1017813#msg1017813 date=1261236770]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38010.msg1017799#msg1017799 date=1261236484]
Is he injured again? I must have missed that
[/quote]

I read that he'd taken a knock on his thigh in midweek. He'll have to stop trying to trap the ball that way I think.
[/quote]

How long is that gonna set him back?
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38010.msg1017831#msg1017831 date=1261236977]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=38010.msg1017775#msg1017775 date=1261236053]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38010.msg1017763#msg1017763 date=1261235813]
Look everyone, can we ditch this Torres and Gerrard thing once and for all please.
It worked last year, even when the two of them are fit it looks crap now, the opposition have all worked it out now, and all that happens is that Torres ends up isolated up front

regards
[/quote]

The reason for that is the dross behind them. They're both being forced into being back-to-the-goal players which they're clearly not. Change the midfield before you pair them up top again. For the time being, drop Gerrard back to the centre and play Torres and Yossi up top.
[/quote]

No its not, its because the opposition know if they can snuff Gerrard out it falls over, they only have to stop the supply to and the supply from one man, it's easy - and sadly Gerrard takes less snuffing out at the moment
If we still had Alonso here , it would not have worked this year

regards
[/quote]

I don't agree with that. Alonso's influence is greatly underrated.

Though Gerrard's fitness has something do with the partnership's lack of success, I don't think its predictability is a problem as long as we have a creative central midfield.
 
I've lost the faith. We are not going to sort it out short or long term with Rafa in charge.

By the way wtf has happened to Johnson defensively. I know he was always and still is great in attack but hes cost us 3 goals in his last 2 matches and looked all over the place today.
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38010.msg1017836#msg1017836 date=1261237077]
[quote author=Tal link=topic=38010.msg1017813#msg1017813 date=1261236770]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38010.msg1017799#msg1017799 date=1261236484]
Is he injured again? I must have missed that
[/quote]

I read that he'd taken a knock on his thigh in midweek. He'll have to stop trying to trap the ball that way I think.
[/quote]

How long is that gonna set him back?
[/quote]

Anybody's guess since he doesn't get to play even when he's fit.
 
Back to basics.

I don't really care about flowing football right now, I just want points on the board. Go 4-4-2, when the opposition has the ball go with the two banks off 4 defending and hit teams on the break.

Once we get a bit of momentum with a few wins then we can look at the style of football we play.

Rafa needs take some time to reflect on the first half of this season and do something, even if it is as simple as the 4-4-2.
 
[quote author=Bradley link=topic=38010.msg1017859#msg1017859 date=1261237773]
Back to basics.

I don't really care about flowing football right now, I just want points on the board. Go 4-4-2, when the opposition has the ball go with the two banks off 4 defending and hit teams on the break.


[/quote]

We're not going to play on the counter against Wolves. They'll just sit there and wait for it to end in a 0-0 draw. Besides which, we're not very solid defensively nor do we have much pace in our team - counterattacking football is not going to help us right now.
 
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