They aren't actually, but I don't agree with them on this. Rafa's record was mixed and he did leave some problems behind, but they don't begin to excuse the foul-up Roy's been making.
Hodgson: Its a tough job - even Mourinho said Liverpool will get worse and worse
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[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42952.msg1225448#msg1225448 date=1290976109]
They aren't actually, but I don't agree with them on this. Rafa's record was mixed and he did leave some problems behind, but they don't begin to excuse the foul-up Roy's been making.
[/quote]
i speak as i find.
They aren't actually, but I don't agree with them on this. Rafa's record was mixed and he did leave some problems behind, but they don't begin to excuse the foul-up Roy's been making.
[/quote]
i speak as i find.
I had a post ready about rafa, but i deleted it because i'm sick of retreading old ground. People will always love rafa which is fair, and people will always blame him for the steady decline.
Both sides have their merits and both sides have their flaws. Can we not agree this?
Both sides have their merits and both sides have their flaws. Can we not agree this?
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42952.msg1225474#msg1225474 date=1290977650]
I had a post ready about rafa, but i deleted it because i'm sick of retreading old ground. People will always love rafa which is fair, and people will always blame him for the steady decline.
Both sides have their merits and both sides have their flaws. Can we not agree this?
[/quote]
mate, i just take issue when it's as extreme as the stuff that the likes of Rosco and Portly spout. i can accept that there'll be fans and detractors, that's all part of a normal human range of opinions, but i genuinely believe that the really one-sided, twisted, views (at least on this site) are from 'them'.
look at some of the stuff Rosco tries to throw at him:
- he ruined a brilliant houllier defence (he actually clearly improved it)
- he left a crippling wage bill (wages as % of turnover in 2010 = 60%; wages as % of turnover in 2004 = 60%)
- he was tactically inept
- he was lucky
- he treated players like cunts
let's just say he'd have to be luckier than a thousand lottery winners combined to have achieved what he has and be guilty of all the other shit he's accused of.
I had a post ready about rafa, but i deleted it because i'm sick of retreading old ground. People will always love rafa which is fair, and people will always blame him for the steady decline.
Both sides have their merits and both sides have their flaws. Can we not agree this?
[/quote]
mate, i just take issue when it's as extreme as the stuff that the likes of Rosco and Portly spout. i can accept that there'll be fans and detractors, that's all part of a normal human range of opinions, but i genuinely believe that the really one-sided, twisted, views (at least on this site) are from 'them'.
look at some of the stuff Rosco tries to throw at him:
- he ruined a brilliant houllier defence (he actually clearly improved it)
- he left a crippling wage bill (wages as % of turnover in 2010 = 60%; wages as % of turnover in 2004 = 60%)
- he was tactically inept
- he was lucky
- he treated players like cunts
let's just say he'd have to be luckier than a thousand lottery winners combined to have achieved what he has and be guilty of all the other shit he's accused of.
Regards the defence, as a unit you could argue he kept it tight, maybe tighter than Houllier did, but who did he buy at the back that was better than what we already had? The back four he took on of Finnan, Carra, Hyypia and Riise was second to none and no one he's bought to put in there was better than any of that. And before someone starts with the "he made Carra a centre back", it's fucking bollocks because Carra had been playing centre back for months in the final part of Ged's tenure, and had done at the beginning too.
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42952.msg1225480#msg1225480 date=1290978511]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42952.msg1225474#msg1225474 date=1290977650]
I had a post ready about rafa, but i deleted it because i'm sick of retreading old ground. People will always love rafa which is fair, and people will always blame him for the steady decline.
Both sides have their merits and both sides have their flaws. Can we not agree this?
[/quote]
mate, i just take issue when it's as extreme as the stuff that the likes of Rosco and Portly spout. i can accept that there'll be fans and detractors, that's all part of a normal human range of opinions, but i genuinely believe that the really one-sided, twisted, views (at least on this site) are from 'them'.
look at some of the stuff Rosco tries to throw at him:
- he ruined a brilliant houllier defence (he actually clearly improved it)
- he left a crippling wage bill (wages as % of turnover in 2010 = 60%; wages as % of turnover in 2004 = 60%)
- he was tactically inept
- he was lucky
- he treated players like cunts
let's just say he'd have to be luckier than a thousand lottery winners combined to have achieved what he has and be guilty of all the other shit he's accused of.
[/quote]
i get you, and tbf i agree with you with regard to some things, but these "debates" never end well and its always the same cycle. Its just dull now. Sadly another part of human nature is stubbornness.
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42952.msg1225474#msg1225474 date=1290977650]
I had a post ready about rafa, but i deleted it because i'm sick of retreading old ground. People will always love rafa which is fair, and people will always blame him for the steady decline.
Both sides have their merits and both sides have their flaws. Can we not agree this?
[/quote]
mate, i just take issue when it's as extreme as the stuff that the likes of Rosco and Portly spout. i can accept that there'll be fans and detractors, that's all part of a normal human range of opinions, but i genuinely believe that the really one-sided, twisted, views (at least on this site) are from 'them'.
look at some of the stuff Rosco tries to throw at him:
- he ruined a brilliant houllier defence (he actually clearly improved it)
- he left a crippling wage bill (wages as % of turnover in 2010 = 60%; wages as % of turnover in 2004 = 60%)
- he was tactically inept
- he was lucky
- he treated players like cunts
let's just say he'd have to be luckier than a thousand lottery winners combined to have achieved what he has and be guilty of all the other shit he's accused of.
[/quote]
i get you, and tbf i agree with you with regard to some things, but these "debates" never end well and its always the same cycle. Its just dull now. Sadly another part of human nature is stubbornness.
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42952.msg1225480#msg1225480 date=1290978511]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42952.msg1225474#msg1225474 date=1290977650]
I had a post ready about rafa, but i deleted it because i'm sick of retreading old ground. People will always love rafa which is fair, and people will always blame him for the steady decline.
Both sides have their merits and both sides have their flaws. Can we not agree this?
[/quote]
mate, i just take issue when it's as extreme as the stuff that the likes of Rosco and Portly spout. i can accept that there'll be fans and detractors, that's all part of a normal human range of opinions, but i genuinely believe that the really one-sided, twisted, views (at least on this site) are from 'them'.
look at some of the stuff Rosco tries to throw at him:
- he ruined a brilliant houllier defence (he actually clearly improved it)
- he left a crippling wage bill (wages as % of turnover in 2010 = 60%; wages as % of turnover in 2004 = 60%)
- he was tactically inept
- he was lucky
- he treated players like cunts
let's just say he'd have to be luckier than a thousand lottery winners combined to have achieved what he has and be guilty of all the other shit he's accused of.
[/quote]
I'm with you 100% on this and the worse aspect of it is being called a 'Rafa-cultist' or 'RCDNW' and other disparaging terms as if we are mad for acknowledging what he achieved with us. The guy had us as the number 1 team in Europe, we were 'big time'. I've come to terms with the fact that some people see it differently, however strange that may seem.
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42952.msg1225474#msg1225474 date=1290977650]
I had a post ready about rafa, but i deleted it because i'm sick of retreading old ground. People will always love rafa which is fair, and people will always blame him for the steady decline.
Both sides have their merits and both sides have their flaws. Can we not agree this?
[/quote]
mate, i just take issue when it's as extreme as the stuff that the likes of Rosco and Portly spout. i can accept that there'll be fans and detractors, that's all part of a normal human range of opinions, but i genuinely believe that the really one-sided, twisted, views (at least on this site) are from 'them'.
look at some of the stuff Rosco tries to throw at him:
- he ruined a brilliant houllier defence (he actually clearly improved it)
- he left a crippling wage bill (wages as % of turnover in 2010 = 60%; wages as % of turnover in 2004 = 60%)
- he was tactically inept
- he was lucky
- he treated players like cunts
let's just say he'd have to be luckier than a thousand lottery winners combined to have achieved what he has and be guilty of all the other shit he's accused of.
[/quote]
I'm with you 100% on this and the worse aspect of it is being called a 'Rafa-cultist' or 'RCDNW' and other disparaging terms as if we are mad for acknowledging what he achieved with us. The guy had us as the number 1 team in Europe, we were 'big time'. I've come to terms with the fact that some people see it differently, however strange that may seem.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42952.msg1225487#msg1225487 date=1290978756]
Regards the defence, as a unit you could argue he kept it tight, maybe tighter than Houllier did, but who did he buy at the back that was better than what we already had? The back four he took on of Finnan, Carra, Hyypia and Riise was second to none and no one he's bought to put in there was better than any of that. And before someone starts with the "he made Carra a centre back", it's fucking bollocks because Carra had been playing centre back for months in the final part of Ged's tenure, and had done at the beginning too.
[/quote]
Rafa didn't make Carra a CB, but he did make him a good one. Carra never looked the part under GH and was far better at fullback then, over on the left especially.
Regards the defence, as a unit you could argue he kept it tight, maybe tighter than Houllier did, but who did he buy at the back that was better than what we already had? The back four he took on of Finnan, Carra, Hyypia and Riise was second to none and no one he's bought to put in there was better than any of that. And before someone starts with the "he made Carra a centre back", it's fucking bollocks because Carra had been playing centre back for months in the final part of Ged's tenure, and had done at the beginning too.
[/quote]
Rafa didn't make Carra a CB, but he did make him a good one. Carra never looked the part under GH and was far better at fullback then, over on the left especially.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42952.msg1225501#msg1225501 date=1290978991]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42952.msg1225487#msg1225487 date=1290978756]
Regards the defence, as a unit you could argue he kept it tight, maybe tighter than Houllier did, but who did he buy at the back that was better than what we already had? The back four he took on of Finnan, Carra, Hyypia and Riise was second to none and no one he's bought to put in there was better than any of that. And before someone starts with the "he made Carra a centre back", it's fucking bollocks because Carra had been playing centre back for months in the final part of Ged's tenure, and had done at the beginning too.
[/quote]
Rafa didn't make Carra a CB, but he did make him a good one. Carra never looked the part under GH and was far better at fullback then, over on the left especially.
[/quote]
surely that comes with age as a centre back though? they aways improve the older they get. Plus he was playin consistently with hyypia for a few years which was always going to improve his abilities.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42952.msg1225487#msg1225487 date=1290978756]
Regards the defence, as a unit you could argue he kept it tight, maybe tighter than Houllier did, but who did he buy at the back that was better than what we already had? The back four he took on of Finnan, Carra, Hyypia and Riise was second to none and no one he's bought to put in there was better than any of that. And before someone starts with the "he made Carra a centre back", it's fucking bollocks because Carra had been playing centre back for months in the final part of Ged's tenure, and had done at the beginning too.
[/quote]
Rafa didn't make Carra a CB, but he did make him a good one. Carra never looked the part under GH and was far better at fullback then, over on the left especially.
[/quote]
surely that comes with age as a centre back though? they aways improve the older they get. Plus he was playin consistently with hyypia for a few years which was always going to improve his abilities.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42952.msg1225487#msg1225487 date=1290978756]
Regards the defence, as a unit you could argue he kept it tight, maybe tighter than Houllier did, but who did he buy at the back that was better than what we already had? The back four he took on of Finnan, Carra, Hyypia and Riise was second to none and no one he's bought to put in there was better than any of that. And before someone starts with the "he made Carra a centre back", it's fucking bollocks because Carra had been playing centre back for months in the final part of Ged's tenure, and had done at the beginning too.
[/quote]
we consistently conceded fewer goals under benitez than under houllier, therefore he improved the defence.
i couldn't swear to it, but i think he also deserves a bit more credit than you give him for moving carra to the centre. the spell he had there in 99 was ancient history in football terms, and i'm not at all sure he was ever first-choice there in 03/04...was that not still henchoz?
Regards the defence, as a unit you could argue he kept it tight, maybe tighter than Houllier did, but who did he buy at the back that was better than what we already had? The back four he took on of Finnan, Carra, Hyypia and Riise was second to none and no one he's bought to put in there was better than any of that. And before someone starts with the "he made Carra a centre back", it's fucking bollocks because Carra had been playing centre back for months in the final part of Ged's tenure, and had done at the beginning too.
[/quote]
we consistently conceded fewer goals under benitez than under houllier, therefore he improved the defence.
i couldn't swear to it, but i think he also deserves a bit more credit than you give him for moving carra to the centre. the spell he had there in 99 was ancient history in football terms, and i'm not at all sure he was ever first-choice there in 03/04...was that not still henchoz?
I believe so, yes.
Fabio - wouldn't dispute what you say, but good CBs generally look better even in their earlier years than Carra did when GH tried him there. For example our current CBs other than Carra have their critics, and rightly so at times, but they're better than Carra was in that position under GH.
Fabio - wouldn't dispute what you say, but good CBs generally look better even in their earlier years than Carra did when GH tried him there. For example our current CBs other than Carra have their critics, and rightly so at times, but they're better than Carra was in that position under GH.
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42952.msg1225514#msg1225514 date=1290979360]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42952.msg1225487#msg1225487 date=1290978756]
Regards the defence, as a unit you could argue he kept it tight, maybe tighter than Houllier did, but who did he buy at the back that was better than what we already had? The back four he took on of Finnan, Carra, Hyypia and Riise was second to none and no one he's bought to put in there was better than any of that. And before someone starts with the "he made Carra a centre back", it's fucking bollocks because Carra had been playing centre back for months in the final part of Ged's tenure, and had done at the beginning too.
[/quote]
we consistently conceded fewer goals under benitez than under houllier, therefore he improved the defence.
i couldn't swear to it, but i think he also deserves a bit more credit than you give him for moving carra to the centre. the spell he had there in 99 was ancient history in football terms, and i'm not at all sure he was ever first-choice there in 03/04...was that not still henchoz?
[/quote]
He was also inexperienced in 99, so it's a bit harsh comparing his ability then to that after winning every cup going and playing consistently and alongside some great players for six years.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42952.msg1225487#msg1225487 date=1290978756]
Regards the defence, as a unit you could argue he kept it tight, maybe tighter than Houllier did, but who did he buy at the back that was better than what we already had? The back four he took on of Finnan, Carra, Hyypia and Riise was second to none and no one he's bought to put in there was better than any of that. And before someone starts with the "he made Carra a centre back", it's fucking bollocks because Carra had been playing centre back for months in the final part of Ged's tenure, and had done at the beginning too.
[/quote]
we consistently conceded fewer goals under benitez than under houllier, therefore he improved the defence.
i couldn't swear to it, but i think he also deserves a bit more credit than you give him for moving carra to the centre. the spell he had there in 99 was ancient history in football terms, and i'm not at all sure he was ever first-choice there in 03/04...was that not still henchoz?
[/quote]
He was also inexperienced in 99, so it's a bit harsh comparing his ability then to that after winning every cup going and playing consistently and alongside some great players for six years.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42952.msg1225516#msg1225516 date=1290979405]
I believe so, yes.
Fabio - wouldn't dispute what you say, but good CBs generally look better even in their earlier years than Carra did when GH tried him there. For example our current CBs other than Carra have their critics, and rightly so at times, but they're better than Carra was in that position under GH.
[/quote]
suppose you're right, but early in his career carra was under A LOT of scrutiny from the fans, mainly due to his versatility and being a jack of all trades master of none. Now thats obviously changed to he might be less nervous now
I believe so, yes.
Fabio - wouldn't dispute what you say, but good CBs generally look better even in their earlier years than Carra did when GH tried him there. For example our current CBs other than Carra have their critics, and rightly so at times, but they're better than Carra was in that position under GH.
[/quote]
suppose you're right, but early in his career carra was under A LOT of scrutiny from the fans, mainly due to his versatility and being a jack of all trades master of none. Now thats obviously changed to he might be less nervous now
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42952.msg1225440#msg1225440 date=1290975779]
[quote author=Portly link=topic=42952.msg1224803#msg1224803 date=1290958675]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42952.msg1224763#msg1224763 date=1290952506]
And Mourinho is correct. We made so many bad decisions during the Benitez era that we're really fucked for a good while.
[/quote]
This.
I think the reason Hodgson is making these ill-advised comments, is that he is totally bemused to be treated as the culprit, while the architect of all our misfortunes is sitting in Milan.
Ironically, it seems to me that the worst thing that ever happened to our club was winning the CL in 2005, because the kudos of that gave Benitez 5 years to fuck up the club unchallenged, particularly after Paco left when he became noticeably more irrational.
[/quote]
jesus fucking christ. what a pair of massive thick fucking cunts.
[/quote]There really is no need for that peter. Please refrain. You are very good at being savage without being insulting.
[quote author=Portly link=topic=42952.msg1224803#msg1224803 date=1290958675]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42952.msg1224763#msg1224763 date=1290952506]
And Mourinho is correct. We made so many bad decisions during the Benitez era that we're really fucked for a good while.
[/quote]
This.
I think the reason Hodgson is making these ill-advised comments, is that he is totally bemused to be treated as the culprit, while the architect of all our misfortunes is sitting in Milan.
Ironically, it seems to me that the worst thing that ever happened to our club was winning the CL in 2005, because the kudos of that gave Benitez 5 years to fuck up the club unchallenged, particularly after Paco left when he became noticeably more irrational.
[/quote]
jesus fucking christ. what a pair of massive thick fucking cunts.
[/quote]There really is no need for that peter. Please refrain. You are very good at being savage without being insulting.
Peter, nobody takes Rosco seriously about anything. Don't get so het up.
oncy> sorry. it just gets to me.
brendan> well, maybe so. i think i should probably put him on ignore, because i just can't stand the bloke.
brendan> well, maybe so. i think i should probably put him on ignore, because i just can't stand the bloke.
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