HENRY MUST DIG DEEP FOR LIVERPOOL’S BIG REBUILDING JOB

[Gary25]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/256895/Henry-must-dig-deep-for-Liverpool-s-big-rebuilding-job

Tuesday July 5,2011
By Paul Joyce

THE memory of Liverpool’s Luis Suarez-inspired dismantling of Manchester United in March was still fresh and Damien Comolli’s mobile phone was trilling incessantly.

“I was getting phone calls from agents telling me that their player would love to come,” said Anfield’s director of football towards the end of last season.

Yet the engaged tone that greeted callers to Comolli’s mobile is no more, with reality having bitten since for Liverpool, who returned to pre-season training yesterday. First Phil Jones, then Ashley Young and now Gael Clichy have all escaped their eager clutches, opting instead for the instant lure of the Champions League now on offer on both sides of Manchester’s football divide.

Consider that the £9?million fee paid by Sunderland for long-term target Connor Wickham was ultimately deemed too excessive, that Rennes winger Sylvain Marveaux pitched up at Newcastle and Brad Friedel opted for the No?1 jersey at Spurs rather than a back-up role at his first English club, and Liverpool now have work to do to regain the feelgood factor that followed manager Kenny Dalglish’s return.

There is still time to recruit high-calibre reinforcements and there will be no sense of panic but, in fairness to Comolli, the onus inevitably now falls on the owners, Fenway Sports Group, to underline their enthusiasm and ambition. With Liverpool already appearing resigned to moving for players who would ideally only be second choices, finalising long-standing interest in Charlie Adam and Stewart Downing would avoid raising more awkward questions.

Principal owner John W Henry insisted last week he is committed to building for the future before highlighting the need for Liverpool to operate “within the parameters UEFA have set forth under their Financial Fair Play rules”. Their looming introduction was a huge factor in persuading Henry to invest £300m in Liverpool last October, the notion of a level playing field convincing him he was buying a team who would be able to compete.

Yet it would be better for Liverpool to make sure they are in Europe – and preferably the Champions League – before becoming too sidetracked by red tape.

A transfer policy focusing on buying young players needs to be flexible enough to recognise Liverpool need reinforcements for today, not just players for tomorrow.

And having previously targeted English or British talent, it is also a bit rich for Liverpool to now mumble of inflated prices and of having to switch to the Continent for players given they set a precedent by paying £35m for Andy Carroll.

A quick glimpse at those who took part in training in front of new first-team coach Kevin Keen at Melwood illustrated the need for Liverpool to offload deadwood in their squad.

Alberto Aquilani, Paul Konchesky and Christian Poulsen were among those working out with Dalglish and right-hand man Steve Clarke close by, while elsewhere Philipp Degen trained on his own away from the main group.

The futures of Raul Meireles, David Ngog, Joe Cole and Milan Jovanovic are also uncertain. Ngog could be offered as a makeweight in the deal to bring Downing to Anfield.

 

[Ryan]

Gosh, lots of new unheard of info in there.

 

[Avmenon]

How does one write so many words and in the end say nothing?

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Avvy link=topic=45985.msg1359806#msg1359806 date=1309823014]
How does one write so many words and in the end say nothing?
[/quote]

Ask Tomkins.

 

[Roopy]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=45985.msg1359811#msg1359811 date=1309823486]
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=45985.msg1359806#msg1359806 date=1309823014]
How does one write so many words and in the end say nothing?
[/quote]

Ask Tomkins.
[/quote]

:laugh:

 

[Rosco]

How come all the papers have gone from saying we were going to have a huge summer, with talk of net spends of 50-100m, to these sort of articles that say we haven't got a lot of money unless the owners put in some cash ?

Couldn't have seen this coming ....

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45985.msg1359852#msg1359852 date=1309849608]
How come all the papers have gone from saying we were going to have a huge summer, with talk of net spends of 50-100m, to these sort of articles that say we haven't got a lot of money unless the owners put in some cash ?

Couldn't have seen this coming ....
[/quote]

Because we missed out on targets to the Champions and another team in the Champions League? Ergo, we're skint.

 

[Sunny]

What an utterly shite article. As Mark said we've missed out on a few players and thus we're skint (regardless of of what any other team bar Man Yoo have bought). Oh, and while we're at it Liverpool should completely disregard the FFP rules until we qualify for Europe. What ? Utter utter shite and easy fuel for the usual doom merchants.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=45985.msg1359854#msg1359854 date=1309849692]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45985.msg1359852#msg1359852 date=1309849608]
How come all the papers have gone from saying we were going to have a huge summer, with talk of net spends of 50-100m, to these sort of articles that say we haven't got a lot of money unless the owners put in some cash ?

Couldn't have seen this coming ....
[/quote]

Because we missed out on targets to the Champions and another team in the Champions League? Ergo, we're skint.
[/quote]

We're clearly not skint but finances are tight, that was obvious at the beginning of the summer.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45985.msg1359864#msg1359864 date=1309850380]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=45985.msg1359854#msg1359854 date=1309849692]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45985.msg1359852#msg1359852 date=1309849608]
How come all the papers have gone from saying we were going to have a huge summer, with talk of net spends of 50-100m, to these sort of articles that say we haven't got a lot of money unless the owners put in some cash ?

Couldn't have seen this coming ....
[/quote]

Because we missed out on targets to the Champions and another team in the Champions League? Ergo, we're skint.
[/quote]

We're clearly not skint but finances are tight, that was obvious at the beginning of the summer.
[/quote]

I know, it wasn't a dig at you, just the nothingness of the article. Finances are tight yeah and most people have gathered that we have to get several players off the wage bill to lessen the wage bill. The article sounds like something straight from one of the threads in here, we haven't signed anyone since Henderson so the Summer is a disaster already, despite the fact no one has really spent much yet.

 

[Sunny]

It's got nothing to do with money, any of this. Jones and Young preferred to go to Man Utd - the league champions and the CL. Clichy went to Man City - again in the CL and willing to pay purely stupid wages and completely flaunt FFP. I'm looking forward to seeing if UEFA do fuck all about this. We're simply not as attractive a proposition as we used to be and some of us need to face those facts. We've a rebuilding job to do but we can't simply hold a gun to a players head and force them to sign for us. I love the way the author is saying we're mumbling about inflated prices as well. Well, that's funny because I haven't heard us say fuck all about anything. As I said it's a completely shite article that makes sweeping assumptions and still says nothing new.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45985.msg1359871#msg1359871 date=1309851073]
It's got nothing to do with money, any of this. Jones and Young preferred to go to Man Utd - the league champions and the CL. Clichy went to Man City - again in the CL and willing to pay purely stupid wages and completely flaunt FFP. I'm looking forward to seeing if UEFA do fuck all about this. We're simply not as attractive a proposition as we used to be and some of us need to face those facts. We've a rebuilding job to do but we can't simply hold a gun to a players head and force them to sign for us. I love the way the author is saying we're mumbling about inflated prices as well. Well, that's funny because I haven't heard us say fuck all about anything. As I said it's a completely shite article that makes sweeping assumptions and still says nothing new.
[/quote]

It says all the talk of huge net spends is rubbish, just like Barrett's article yesterday. Just like I guessed months ago.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45985.msg1359873#msg1359873 date=1309851258]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45985.msg1359871#msg1359871 date=1309851073]
It's got nothing to do with money, any of this. Jones and Young preferred to go to Man Utd - the league champions and the CL. Clichy went to Man City - again in the CL and willing to pay purely stupid wages and completely flaunt FFP. I'm looking forward to seeing if UEFA do fuck all about this. We're simply not as attractive a proposition as we used to be and some of us need to face those facts. We've a rebuilding job to do but we can't simply hold a gun to a players head and force them to sign for us. I love the way the author is saying we're mumbling about inflated prices as well. Well, that's funny because I haven't heard us say fuck all about anything. As I said it's a completely shite article that makes sweeping assumptions and still says nothing new.
[/quote]

It says all the talk of huge net spends is rubbish, just like Barrett's article yesterday. Just like I guessed months ago.
[/quote]

So the crux of your point is that a nothing article echoes your concerns from a few months back? I think we're pretty much in the dark about alot of things right now and rightly so. The article (and Barrett's for that matter) confirm nothing, what we spend will ultimately determine where we're going and that's assuming the players we want will come here.

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=45985.msg1359805#msg1359805 date=1309823004]
Gosh, lots of new unheard of info in there.
[/quote]

Indeed! I didnt know Degan was training on his own. WTF happened?

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45985.msg1359873#msg1359873 date=1309851258]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45985.msg1359871#msg1359871 date=1309851073]
It's got nothing to do with money, any of this. Jones and Young preferred to go to Man Utd - the league champions and the CL. Clichy went to Man City - again in the CL and willing to pay purely stupid wages and completely flaunt FFP. I'm looking forward to seeing if UEFA do fuck all about this. We're simply not as attractive a proposition as we used to be and some of us need to face those facts. We've a rebuilding job to do but we can't simply hold a gun to a players head and force them to sign for us. I love the way the author is saying we're mumbling about inflated prices as well. Well, that's funny because I haven't heard us say fuck all about anything. As I said it's a completely shite article that makes sweeping assumptions and still says nothing new.
[/quote]

It says all the talk of huge net spends is rubbish, just like Barrett's article yesterday. Just like I guessed months ago.
[/quote]

When the transfer window is closed you can be all smug then

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=45985.msg1359882#msg1359882 date=1309852266]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45985.msg1359873#msg1359873 date=1309851258]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45985.msg1359871#msg1359871 date=1309851073]
It's got nothing to do with money, any of this. Jones and Young preferred to go to Man Utd - the league champions and the CL. Clichy went to Man City - again in the CL and willing to pay purely stupid wages and completely flaunt FFP. I'm looking forward to seeing if UEFA do fuck all about this. We're simply not as attractive a proposition as we used to be and some of us need to face those facts. We've a rebuilding job to do but we can't simply hold a gun to a players head and force them to sign for us. I love the way the author is saying we're mumbling about inflated prices as well. Well, that's funny because I haven't heard us say fuck all about anything. As I said it's a completely shite article that makes sweeping assumptions and still says nothing new.
[/quote]

It says all the talk of huge net spends is rubbish, just like Barrett's article yesterday. Just like I guessed months ago.
[/quote]

So the crux of your point is that a nothing article echoes your concerns from a few months back? I think we're pretty much in the dark about alot of things right now and rightly so. The article (and Barrett's for that matter) confirm nothing, what we spend will ultimately determine where we're going and that's assuming the players we want will come here.
[/quote]

"a nothing article". Mark there has been a marked change in tone of articles in the past week. It's gone from - we're spending 100m on aguero mata etc, to we're waiting to shift a few off the wage bill before signing Adam and Downing. That's a bit of a sea change.

 

[Sunny]

The papers know fuck all Ross. We know fuck all. The only article of worth, with regards to LFC, in the past week is the one where Kenny states we do our business behind closed doors.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45985.msg1359887#msg1359887 date=1309852674]
"a nothing article". Mark there has been a marked change in tone of articles in the past week. It's gone from - we're spending 100m on aguero mata etc, to we're waiting to shift a few off the wage bill before signing Adam and Downing. That's a bit of a sea change.
[/quote]

It's guess work that most of us could do. There are alot of reasons why we could be struggling to make headway with Adam and Downing, notably Blackpool's Chairman being a cock and Villa not wanting to lose their Player Of The Season for less than they think is fair and more than we think he's worth.

That's equally plausible and has been 'reported' in equal measure.

 

[HC]

In all fairness, I dont thInk I've read a single article from a reputable source, that suggests were minted and will be buying big.

That might just be me though.

I personally would consider £25-30m on downing and Adam 'spending big' I can't help but feel the board feels the same way given the fact that both of the aboves mooted moves have halted.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45985.msg1359890#msg1359890 date=1309852836]
The papers know fuck all Ross. We know fuck all. The only article of worth, with regards to LFC, in the past week is the one where Kenny states we do our business behind closed doors.
[/quote]

Things can go on behind closed doors but the important information is publically available.

if you want to bury your head in the sand by all means do so, your going on info passed on which to date has been consistently wrong this summer. I'm going on the facts available as well as common sense guesses at what FSG will and wont do. I said at the beginning the type of spending you were talking about was only possible if FSG were pumping in a lot of cash, the PR line of complying with FFP rules is effectively stating that they wont be putting in their own cash for transfers.

The problem arises that at the end of the summer, if it progresses as expected and doesnt result in a 50m net spend with the worlds top stars arriving people will begin to ask questions. They'll talk about having ambition and about where the 40m we were paying in interest is gone etc etc, I wonder will people just carry on moaning or will they take an honest look at where we are and what iur real problems are and have been.

 

[Sunny]

The summer isn't over yet Ross. I'm prepared to wait until the window is shut until I pass judgement. If you're right you're right so be it. With nearly two months left of the window I'm not getting overly excited or worried just yet.

 

[Rosco]

Its not about being worried or excited. I dont fall into either category, the expectations set at the beginning of the summer were unrealistic. Thats my one and only point here.

 

[mark1975]

I think you're exaggerating what peoples expectations are, most on here know we're not in a position to fork out for the World's top stars, if you read the recent threads, myself, Sunny and a few others have continued to battle this unrealistic outlook continuously.

However, despite no European football and questions over how much the owners are willing to invest, we've spent £16m on Henderson on top of the net spend in January, I doubt we'd head into this Summer with a transfer kitty similar to what we're used to, to then go and blow the majority of it on a kid most people knew little about, that would financial and PR suicide. We've continuously been linked with Adam and Downing and we were willing to buy Adam in January which would have taken our net spend then to in the region of £20m, before the Henderson transfer. Don't know about you but mathematically that doesn't sum up to our usual net spend and this with the prospect of a season of no European income. It doesn't add up.

I agree that people's expectations are overboard and we won't be buying the World's best stars at a premium, but we will be spending and that money has to be coming from somewhere. Most of us have mentioned about the wage bill for a while now, so that's no revelation, it's almost common knowledge now that we're making a conscious effort to get back within a sustainable framework. So while I think a few of us are resigned to 'where we are', I don't think things are quite as bleak as you continue to predict and so far nothing has been proven either way so there's no point being smug about anything.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45985.msg1359935#msg1359935 date=1309857154]
Its not about being worried or excited. I dont fall into either category, the expectations set at the beginning of the summer were unrealistic. Thats my one and only point here.
[/quote]I agree. The fawning over the (new) Yanks HUGE intentions in January was a bit laughable given that we NET spent fuck all. I said as much at the time and was told i was being unfair, but the fact is they spent 300m in October and have a long term plan to make a profit on that investment, which CANNOT be done if they are bankrolling the playing staff to the tune of 50m every year with the clubs expenditure on wages being sooooo high.
Mongy Joe and Jovanovic costing us over a million pounds a month is a point in case.

I dont see any massive outlay coming if im honest. They may be willing to invest in the playing staff if they can offset the costs in saved wages but as the article says, theres Poulsen, Konchesky, Degen, N'gog, Cole et al running around burning our cash and no one wants any of them. We have to get rid of this dead weight or we will continue to sink.
Rafa and Roys regimes were a fucking joke in terms of financial 'plan'. It reminds me of the stories at Leeds about Ridsdale paying stupid wages.

 

[Rosco]

Whats bleak about saying the owners are not putting in any of their own money?

 

[OLD_Lewy]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45985.msg1359946#msg1359946 date=1309857653]
Whats bleak about saying the owners are not putting in any of their own money?
[/quote]

exactly, id much rather we be a self sufficient club than a club that relies on a financial backer that could decide to pull out their funding when things dont progress (although if we'd been bought by some oil sheikhs i might be singing a different tune)

 

[Jack D Rips]

But what is the point in buying a business, that is basically fucked, if you are not prepared to invest in it to make it successful again?

Im one of those who is realistic enough to recognise that not every top player is a Liverpool fan and that we cant offer what other clubs can. But we have to improve our squad if we are to be successful again and if that means signings like Downing and Adam then so be it.

But even those type of signings require investment.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=45985.msg1359970#msg1359970 date=1309859225]
But what is the point in buying a business, that is basically fucked, if you are not prepared to invest in it to make it successful again?

Im one of those who is realistic enough to recognise that not every top player is a Liverpool fan and that we cant offer what other clubs can. But we have to improve our squad if we are to be successful again and if that means signings like Downing and Adam then so be it.

But even those type of signings require investment.
[/quote]There is more than one way to make a business succesful. Yes you can go out and buy all the top talent at a premium and wait to turn a profit, or you can market well, expand, add merchandise to your portfolio, sign up up and coming talent......etc

Im not saying they wont sign players btw, i just think we need to see some outs before we commit to the ins.

 

[mark1975]

You still kind of skirted the point Ross, what are you saying? You're saying you've suggested money is tight and you're about to be proved right. We've paid £16m for Henderson (£13m plus add ons apparently), and we're 'trying' to buy Adam, Downing and a left back at the very least, which if we're being generous and optimistic will cost at least £30m. So there lies a potential £40m+ already with no real big sale in the pipeline, unless reports surrounding Ming are true. So the point is, we're in the market for these players knowing the minimum we're likely to end up paying, if it were the case that we didn't have that kind of money to spend, you'd have to ask yourself, why the fuck are we interested and making enquiries then?

Like I said, it doesn't add up. I think there will be money invested in the team, maybe not as much as some of the more hysterical posters expect, nor on the profile of player they expect either, but there will be money spent and it's still a significant amount. At the minute it's all guesswork and things are being kept close to the chest, but you're saying about things pointing to the obvious, there's about as much to surmise from doing your sums based on articles like this, as there is from the stories doing the rounds about who and what we're in for.

There's a couple of months to go yet. In the long term it's fairly obvious we're trying to become self sufficient (or certainly back within a sustainable setup) but in the short term your guess is as good as anyone's.

 

[Rosco]

What I'm saying is simple:

1. We will spend some more money.

2. The money spent will be the money the club earns and can afford to budget for transfers.

3. None of the money spent will come from FSG.

Essentially nothing drastic has changed since last year, we're closer to a position where we can spend heavily but until we rid ourselves of more deadwood and qualify for the CL dont expect miracles.